OK let’s start with correct description of head stock items.? The lever you move to engage the BACK GEARS is called the back gear lever.? The pin you pull out of the BULL gear is the shot pin.? So if you have pulled the shot pin all the way out and you cannot rotate the cone pulley easily we have a problem.? The cone pulley is suppose to rotate freely on the spindle when the shot pin is pulled.? So look at the center pulley and you will find a small set screw.? This is the screw you remove to lubricate the bushings on the inside of the cone pulley.??? If you cannot rotate the cone pulley even with some force applied we need to try to free it up by using penetrating oil.? I like Kroil but there are other brands also. ?Try this and we will see what happens.? You should put in quite a bit and then let it sit over night.??? Old oil dries out and turns to what I call lacquer.? If the lathe has sit for a long time this stuff will just turn to glue and seize up close fitting parts as the pulley to spindle fit is a close fit.? No more than .001 clearance when new. ??

I also see your missing the little screw in the back gears that is removed to lubricate the bushings in the gear.? So let’s also get some penetrating oil in there and then some good 30 weight oil.? The screw is suppose to have a soft washer under the head to seal it.? Also do not use a screw that is to long as there is very little clearance between the inside diameter of the back gear and the shaft it rotates on.? To long of a screw and you score up the back gear shaft and it will make it very difficult to disassemble.

Also the cap screws I see holding the front bearing cap on are not down in the counter bores.? The original screws are a slotted screw.? I have new ones if you want some.? With the cap screw head being to big to fit in the counter bore you stand a chance at damaging the top bearing casting if you over tighten the cap screws.? Oh and they are usually called socket head cap screws or SHCS.? ??The original screws that hold the bearing caps down are screw driver slotted screws with a special head. ?You also need to get a oil cup for the top of thee spindle? bearing caps.? I would use Gits Flip top caps. You can get these from Mc Master Carr or MSC.

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When I engage The change gear on the back it locks the spindle out is this supposed to happen? I did take out the retention pin on the side of the big spindle gear but it still is locked any help would be greatly appreciated thanks?

As to the babbitt bearings I have a method of saving them if worn and bring them back to new specification.? Gotta be an old fart to know these kinds of things Hahahahahahha.? As to the screws send me your address and I will send them to you.? Will also look and see if I have anymore flip top caps I could send you.? Used to keep a lot of these things on? hand when I was doing five or six restorations a year. As to shims we are not sure there ever were any installed by the factory.? The spindle bearings in your lathe were not pored rather they were cast in a mold under high pressure.? Usually back in them days it was centrifugal casting technique.? ??Think of Nassa and the huge rotary centrifuge used to train astronauts for high G loads.? This is how Centrifugal casting works.? The mold is spun in a circle and rotated up to high speed then the liquid Babbitt was poured into a center port and the rotating force forced the liquid Babbitt out into the mold.? This was a way they did things before they came up with injection molding machines like we use for plastics today. HISTORY LESSON GUYSJ? Don’t lover old farts that like to talk hahahahaha Dennis, the oldest fart in the group.

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Hay Dan did you get the pictures I email to you I never know if this damn computer is going to work or not.?? It’s funny that the Dalton IO group always works.

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Great thank you very much, I will try this, and yes I would like the slotted screws(do I need them for the back and front?). how do I purchase them from you? Also how do?pour babbitt bearings, thay are in good shape but their are no more shims between the blocks so I'll probably have to pay for new ones eventually? And thanks again?

OK will do this verbal but I will need to take some pictures to show just how I do this.? This is nothing new it’s been done for a long time.? This usually does not work with poured in place Babbitt bearings like we see on old steam engines or hit and miss engines from the 1800’s or early 1900’s. This method is used for machined bronze bearings or in the case of Dalton and there molded Babbitt bearing.? First we need to know how much wear we have in the bearings.? If you think about how a Dalton lathe is setup you have two forces to deal with.? One is the cutting force that tends to cause the spindle to raise up in the head stock.? This force is not pure vertical but rather at some angle to up and to the rear of the head stock.? Second force is what our driving system exerts on the spindle. With the way most of these lathes are setup the countershaft is mounted horizontal to the spindle and at the rear of the lathe.? In this case the force on the spindle is about horizontal and to the rear of the head stock.? Many of these old lathes when originally setup had an overhead countershaft or in the case of Dalton?? South Bend and Sheldon they had a bed mounted overhead drive countershaft.? On this lathes the driving force on the spindle is vertical.? So this shows you there is no one fix for a worn set of bearings as these lathes are in some cases over 100 years old and we have no? history of how they were setup for most of their life.

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OK after we have determine about how much wear we have in a bearing here is what we are going to do.? Let’s say we have .004 clearance between the spindle bearing journal and the Babbitt bearing shell.? So we need to raise the bearing shell half this so we are going to start with .002 shim stock.? We cut a piece of brass shim stock to a shape that will fill the seat in the head stock casting that the bearing seats into.? This means we are going to cover the full surface in the head stock were the bearing is seated into.? We wrap the shim around the bearing shell and then press it back into the head stock casting. So we have raised the shell .002 but we have also collapsed the side of the bearing shell. .004 or two times the thickness of our shim.? At this point you will find that the spindle does not want to drop back into the bearing rather it wants to sit on the top edges of the Babbitt bearing.? So now we get out or bearing scraper and go to work.? We work the sides of the bearing front and back equally.? Checking frequently to see if the spindle is dropping down into the bearing.? At some point you will find that the spindle drops back into the bearing.? So let’s say we just finished fitting the lower front bearing shell.?? Now we do the same thing with the rear bearing as we did the front bearing.? This is all a very touchy feely sort of thing so patents is required. Lastly we do the same thing to the top bearings.? Once you have the caps fit you will find that if you tighten the screws that hold the bearing cap in place usually the spindle will not rotate.? So now we need to think about shim for the bearing caps.?

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So this is a short explanation of how I go through bringing worn bearings back to serviceable condition.? It does not mean that the fits are factory original perfect it only means we have renewed the bearings to a point that our old lathe is now more usable.? You will find that not only has your bearings worn over time so has the spindle as Dalton did not use a hardened spindle on the smaller lathes that being the Lot 2 3 4 and 5.? These smaller lathes are prone to spindle bearing journal wear as well as bearing wear.? I must note that in a few cases we have seen bronze bearings on a Lot 5 lathe as I have one and there are a couple others.? We don’t know if this was a factory installed bearing or something that happened after the lathe left the factory.

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On your Lot 6 and Dalton 9 lathes you will find you have bronze bearings and a hardened spindle.? The Lot 6 and Dalton 9 were a much higher quality lathe meant more for the commercial shop or factory. We’re as the smaller lathes were meant for small repair shops and home shops.? What I? have seen in the two larger lathes even ones I know have seen a lot of hours of use the spindle bearings and spindle are still in good shape with little to no wear.? Especially if the lathe was fitted with a drip feed lube system.? My Lot 6 serial number 7014 is a good example of these kind of lathe as we know so much of its history from the day it was purchased in Seattle Washington in July of 1929. Till ?the family sold the lathe to Greg Fosmark of Issaquah Washington in the late 1980’s.? I purchased the lathe from Greg in 2006 I think. ?The family had even kept the paper work or sales receipt from when the old retired tool maker purchased the lathe after he retired. Oh and the lathe with a South Bend horizontal silent chain countershaft the cost was a bit over $400. So Dalton lathes especially the larger ones were quite expensive as at the same time you could purchase a South Bend 9 Jr with countershaft for less than $200.

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Well I hope not to many of you guys fell asleep while reading all my capJ? Dennis

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Will you share the magical babbit restoration method.?

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As to the babbitt bearings I have a method of saving them if worn and bring them back to new specification.? Gotta be an old fart to know these kinds of things Hahahahahahha.? As to the screws send me your address and I will send them to you.? Will also look and see if I have anymore flip top caps I could send you.? Used to keep a lot of these things on? hand when I was doing five or six restorations a year. As to shims we are not sure there ever were any installed by the factory.? The spindle bearings in your lathe were not pored rather they were cast in a mold under high pressure.? Usually back in them days it was centrifugal casting technique.? ??Think of Nassa and the huge rotary centrifuge used to train astronauts for high G loads.? This is how Centrifugal casting works.? The mold is spun in a circle and rotated up to high speed then the liquid Babbitt was poured into a center port and the rotating force forced the liquid Babbitt out into the mold.? This was a way they did things before they came up with injection molding machines like we use for plastics today. HISTORY LESSON GUYSJ? Don’t lover old farts that like to talk hahahahaha Dennis, the oldest fart in the group.

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Hay Dan did you get the pictuear s I email to you I never know if this damn computer is going to work or not.?? It’s funny that the Dalton IO group always works.

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It’s interesting Ryan as I am 80 years old worked in Mfg for over 60 years owning my own Mfg business for nearly 40 years.? I started out in the early 60’s learning from guys that were near retirement so that’s another 40 or 50 years.? I like to think my experience was gained over 100 years given what I learned from old masters when I was a kid. We never stop learning then we dieL.?? Dennis

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Cool thanks for the information, this stuff is so awesome. I do rapid prototyping/design tech work and the more I read and learn, the more I find that new problems and how to solve them have already been solved and not new problems at all.

Hey Glen I checked on the thread dial gears and I have 13 of them plus the arbor I used when we cut the teeth on the CNC. Dennis

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" The more I find that new problems and how to solve them have already been solved and not new problems at all."

In the bible (1 Kings 7) Solomon had gifted engineers in his employ, (but chiefly Hiram) around 2800 years ago who cast a giant bronze pool (they called it a "Sea") was 15 feet across and 5 feet tall, not including the 12 cast bronze bulls beneath it nor the base height. The bowls wall thickness was approximately 4 to 5".
?It would be a remarkable casting to see done today, probably an open pit casting, but imagine the pressure on the head engineer back then!
?Yes, they had some very smart people way back doing remarkable feats of engineering. Our historical understanding of the origins of machine tools is likely way off because of a lack of proofs.

Hi Glen

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Send me your address and I will stick one in the mail to you.? Dennis

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