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I'm ready to mount the motor on my Lot 4 (2050).
the former owner ran the jack shaft at 575 rpm tho, to be fair, judging by the lack of chips evident when I bought it, not for any length of time.
Question is what is the max rpm for the jack shaft using roller bearings and the max / min Hp required?? My lowest rpm in my setup is 287.
Also, is there a recommended clearance for the main spindle bearings?
Thanks for your help
Larry
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Hi Larry ? Using the Dalton supplied countershaft three step pulley Dalton ran there countershaft at 250 rpm.? This I believe gave a top spindle speed of 480 Rpm.? You would be safe at running your counter shaft at 350 rpm. This would give you a spindle speed of around 700 or a little more.? With drip feed oilers for the spindle bearings you can run up to 900 rpm safely.? Would not recommend running your Dalton spindle any faster than that. ? Dennis ? ? Sent from for Windows 10 ?
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From: L Leonard via groups.ioSent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 4:02 PM To: [email protected]Subject: [DaltonLathes] Max & recommended shaft rpm ? I'm ready to mount the motor on my Lot 4 (2050).
the former owner ran the jack shaft at 575 rpm tho, to be fair, judging by the lack of chips evident when I bought it, not for any length of time.
Question is what is the max rpm for the jack shaft using roller bearings and the max / min Hp required?? My lowest rpm in my setup is 287.
Also, is there a recommended clearance for the main spindle bearings?
Thanks for your help
Larry
|
I replaced my motor with a new 3/4 hp 110v motor from Grizzly. ?Seems to run fine. ?220 would be better from a harmonics point of view - but 110 is more versatile from a small hobby shop point of view.
With the Dalton spindle bearings, I believe the recommended setting is no more than .002¡± vertical movement on the spindle- measured with a Dial indicator, by properly shimming the bearing stock, tightening the bearing cap bolts, and inserting a bar into the headstock and pulling upwards.
The bearings need 2 thou or less to hold the lube oil. ?Anymore runout will cause the work to deflect when taking a cut. Less, causes excessive wear on the bearing material and or machined shaft surface.
Glenn B.
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On Jul 22, 2020, at 4:18 PM, Dennis Turk < dennis.turk2@...> wrote: Hi Larry ? Using the Dalton supplied countershaft three step pulley Dalton ran there countershaft at 250 rpm.? This I believe gave a top spindle speed of 480 Rpm.? You would be safe at running your counter shaft at 350 rpm. This would give you a spindle speed of around 700 or a little more.? With drip feed oilers for the spindle bearings you can run up to 900 rpm safely.? Would not recommend running your Dalton spindle any faster than that. ? Dennis ? ? Sent from for Windows 10 ? ? I'm ready to mount the motor on my Lot 4 (2050).
the former owner ran the jack shaft at 575 rpm tho, to be fair, judging by the lack of chips evident when I bought it, not for any length of time.
Question is what is the max rpm for the jack shaft using roller bearings and the max / min Hp required?? My lowest rpm in my setup is 287.
Also, is there a recommended clearance for the main spindle bearings?
Thanks for your help
Larry
<DB39B45FB1134DB2A719F1B83E7A9BBD.png>
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Thank you.? Now to find some plastigage. L
On Wednesday, July 22, 2020, 7:48:09 PM EDT, glenn brooks <brooks.glenn@...> wrote:
I replaced my motor with a new 3/4 hp 110v motor from Grizzly. ?Seems to run fine. ?220 would be better from a harmonics point of view - but 110 is more versatile from a small hobby shop point of view.
With the Dalton spindle bearings, I believe the recommended setting is no more than .002¡± vertical movement on the spindle- measured with a Dial indicator, by properly shimming the bearing stock, tightening the bearing cap bolts, and inserting a bar into the headstock and pulling upwards.
The bearings need 2 thou or less to hold the lube oil. ?Anymore runout will cause the work to deflect when taking a cut. Less, causes excessive wear on the bearing material and or machined shaft surface.
Glenn B. Hi Larry ? Using the Dalton supplied countershaft three step pulley Dalton ran there countershaft at 250 rpm.? This I believe gave a top spindle speed of 480 Rpm.? You would be safe at running your counter shaft at 350 rpm. This would give you a spindle speed of around 700 or a little more.? With drip feed oilers for the spindle bearings you can run up to 900 rpm safely.? Would not recommend running your Dalton spindle any faster than that. ? Dennis ? ? Sent from for Windows 10 ? ? I'm ready to mount the motor on my Lot 4 (2050).
the former owner ran the jack shaft at 575 rpm tho, to be fair, judging by the lack of chips evident when I bought it, not for any length of time.
Question is what is the max rpm for the jack shaft using roller bearings and the max / min Hp required?? My lowest rpm in my setup is 287.
Also, is there a recommended clearance for the main spindle bearings?
Thanks for your help
Larry
<DB39B45FB1134DB2A719F1B83E7A9BBD.png>
|
My rig gives me 287 rpm.? I'll have to find a smaller drive pulley.? I'm running an atlas jack shaft.? Haven't figured out how to mount the dalton shaft yet. Thanks for the info. L
On Wednesday, July 22, 2020, 7:18:17 PM EDT, Dennis Turk <dennis.turk2@...> wrote:
Hi Larry ? Using the Dalton supplied countershaft three step pulley Dalton ran there countershaft at 250 rpm.? This I believe gave a top spindle speed of 480 Rpm.? You would be safe at running your counter shaft at 350 rpm. This would give you a spindle speed of around 700 or a little more.? With drip feed oilers for the spindle bearings you can run up to 900 rpm safely.? Would not recommend running your Dalton spindle any faster than that. ? Dennis ? ? Sent from for Windows 10 ?
From: L Leonard via groups.ioSent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 4:02 PM To: [email protected]Subject: [DaltonLathes] Max & recommended shaft rpm ? I'm ready to mount the motor on my Lot 4 (2050).
the former owner ran the jack shaft at 575 rpm tho, to be fair, judging by the lack of chips evident when I bought it, not for any length of time.
Question is what is the max rpm for the jack shaft using roller bearings and the max / min Hp required?? My lowest rpm in my setup is 287.
Also, is there a recommended clearance for the main spindle bearings?
Thanks for your help
Larry
|
If you only have one lathe, set the lowest speed so that a piece about 6" in diameter will run at about 40?
surface feet a minute. This is the maximum speed for cast iron. let the maximum speed for the machine be whatever it turns out to be.
Forget about carbide--learn to sharpen high speed steel toolbits. You will be much better off financially and more of a machinist
Herb Kephart
?
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I don't mean to be contrary or make anyone angry but a good machinist knows when to use either HSS or carbide.
On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 10:40 AM Herb Kephart < ebtm3@...> wrote:
If you only have one lathe, set the lowest speed so that a piece about 6" in diameter will run at about 40?
surface feet a minute. This is the maximum speed for cast iron. let the maximum speed for the machine be whatever it turns out to be.
Forget about carbide--learn to sharpen high speed steel toolbits. You will be much better off financially and more of a machinist
Herb Kephart
?
|
To successfully employ carbide, you need 2 things--Horsepower, and rigidity. Daltons are a fine little lathe, but they were designed in an era (after the first world war) when high speed steel was replacing carbon steel tooling. We have 5 conventional lathes
here, and 1 CNC. Carbide all ways on the CNC Mazak, the others (up to24" monarch) only sometimes. As far as roughing, and removing the most metal in the least time, here is heat treated 4340 and a HIGH SPEED TOOL
Lathe is a 16" Lodge and Shipley, 5HP spindle. Piece was part of a Stanley Steam car engine crankshaft. You didnt make me angry, my only reason for posting is to try to get fledgling machinists to realize that I think too many folks are starting out with carbide,
when they would be better off with cheaper tooling.
Herb Kephart
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I don't mean to be contrary or make anyone angry but a good machinist knows when to use either HSS or carbide.
On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 10:40 AM Herb Kephart < ebtm3@...> wrote:
If you only have one lathe, set the lowest speed so that a piece about 6" in diameter will run at about 40?
surface feet a minute. This is the maximum speed for cast iron. let the maximum speed for the machine be whatever it turns out to be.
Forget about carbide--learn to sharpen high speed steel toolbits. You will be much better off financially and more of a machinist
Herb Kephart
?
|
?Please roll with your own interpretations Herb, I agree that high HP and speeds are needed for production high volume machining, but often carbides and ceramics are the only way to cut some materials. I use carbides all the time both at carbide speeds and lower speeds for one off jobs, simply because my time is too valuable to waste grinding HSS and replacing a carbide insert puts you back within .001" normally of where you were when you swapped. I can't believe any experienced machinist doesn't understand relief angles to grind HSS, as there ARE times when HSS is the only way to do some jobs. ?Of course my own practice is to never use lighthouse style holders, and I'd agree, for those who do, it's probably not normally wise to use carbide, as most available carbide tools that would fit are the brased on type, and it's very hard to replace the tool with the precision one gets with QC toolposts and holders and carbide inserts.
?Threading with laydown inserts I find works better than HSS even at slow speeds, in fact other than CNC threading much manual threading is done at lower speeds with "In the white" color chips even with carbide.
?Granted we have hundreds of old carbide inserts in boxes with one or more new edges remaining, so it's not a matter of money for us. It does require more skills and/or experience to thread with carbides if the operator has trouble timing his exit. ?Having said all that let me say that if you are most comfortable using HSS it's all good, I'm not advocating one way or the other as much as saying there are ways to use carbide inserts that are better in my opinion even with a slow and wimpy old lathe at times. With respect, Glen
On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 12:17 PM Herb Kephart < ebtm3@...> wrote:
To successfully employ carbide, you need 2 things--Horsepower, and rigidity. Daltons are a fine little lathe, but they were designed in an era (after the first world war) when high speed steel was replacing carbon steel tooling. We have 5 conventional lathes
here, and 1 CNC. Carbide all ways on the CNC Mazak, the others (up to24" monarch) only sometimes. As far as roughing, and removing the most metal in the least time, here is heat treated 4340 and a HIGH SPEED TOOL
Lathe is a 16" Lodge and Shipley, 5HP spindle. Piece was part of a Stanley Steam car engine crankshaft. You didnt make me angry, my only reason for posting is to try to get fledgling machinists to realize that I think too many folks are starting out with carbide,
when they would be better off with cheaper tooling.
Herb Kephart
I don't mean to be contrary or make anyone angry but a good machinist knows when to use either HSS or carbide.
On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 10:40 AM Herb Kephart < ebtm3@...> wrote:
If you only have one lathe, set the lowest speed so that a piece about 6" in diameter will run at about 40?
surface feet a minute. This is the maximum speed for cast iron. let the maximum speed for the machine be whatever it turns out to be.
Forget about carbide--learn to sharpen high speed steel toolbits. You will be much better off financially and more of a machinist
Herb Kephart
?
|
What planet did you guys come from. For one I use only high positive inserts on my lot 6 Dalton.? Second the mith about carbide on older machines is just bull shit.? Modern high positive insert tooling reduces the HP requirements on an old lathe by a hug amount.? Try taking a 1/8 depth of cut in steel on a Lot 6 Dalton with high speed or cemented carbide and you will either slip the belt or stall the motor.? I have taken heavier cuts with a Lot 6 using modern tooling than they ever did in the old days. Also doing this with a 1/3 hp motor.? Also you will learn to run at a much higher speed than you would with HSS and doing so get much better surface finishes.? For one if you really want to learn how to use a small lathe like the Dalton first get a good tool post.? I recommend the OXA size for all but the Dalton 9.? There are a number of nice seven piece high positive tool holder and boring bar insert sets available on eBay or little machine shop.? Use the 3/8 or 10 MM size tool holders.? The inserts that come with these sets are not the best but they are a good start and there are many kinds of inserts out there that will do just fantastic jobs of accuracy surface finish and stock removal rates on your little machines.? So I am off the soap box now. Oh and also Herb I recently sold my company but it is a high tech job shop with over 50 CNC machines very few conventional machines and doing work that you cant even imagine.? Just for starters lets see you thread mill 080? in 6AL-4V titanium.? We were the first company in the world to do so so I do have a bit of experience in what it takes to get a job done and out the door. Turk Mfg specializes in the ultra high vacuum industry or for the lay person we built electron and Ion guns for the computer ship industry. My company also had three clean rooms on site for some really interesting high tech assembly for the vacuum industry. I see Glen has posted on the thread so ask him he has been to the business i just sold.
Dennis
On Wednesday, July 29, 2020, 01:07:07 PM PDT, Glen Linscheid <partsproduction@...> wrote:
?Please roll with your own interpretations Herb, I agree that high HP and speeds are needed for production high volume machining, but often carbides and ceramics are the only way to cut some materials. I use carbides all the time both at carbide speeds and lower speeds for one off jobs, simply because my time is too valuable to waste grinding HSS and replacing a carbide insert puts you back within .001" normally of where you were when you swapped. I can't believe any experienced machinist doesn't understand relief angles to grind HSS, as there ARE times when HSS is the only way to do some jobs. ?Of course my own practice is to never use lighthouse style holders, and I'd agree, for those who do, it's probably not normally wise to use carbide, as most available carbide tools that would fit are the brased on type, and it's very hard to replace the tool with the precision one gets with QC toolposts and holders and carbide inserts.
?Threading with laydown inserts I find works better than HSS even at slow speeds, in fact other than CNC threading much manual threading is done at lower speeds with "In the white" color chips even with carbide.
?Granted we have hundreds of old carbide inserts in boxes with one or more new edges remaining, so it's not a matter of money for us. It does require more skills and/or experience to thread with carbides if the operator has trouble timing his exit. ?Having said all that let me say that if you are most comfortable using HSS it's all good, I'm not advocating one way or the other as much as saying there are ways to use carbide inserts that are better in my opinion even with a slow and wimpy old lathe at times. With respect, Glen
On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 12:17 PM Herb Kephart < ebtm3@...> wrote:
To successfully employ carbide, you need 2 things--Horsepower, and rigidity. Daltons are a fine little lathe, but they were designed in an era (after the first world war) when high speed steel was replacing carbon steel tooling. We have 5 conventional lathes
here, and 1 CNC. Carbide all ways on the CNC Mazak, the others (up to24" monarch) only sometimes. As far as roughing, and removing the most metal in the least time, here is heat treated 4340 and a HIGH SPEED TOOL
Lathe is a 16" Lodge and Shipley, 5HP spindle. Piece was part of a Stanley Steam car engine crankshaft. You didnt make me angry, my only reason for posting is to try to get fledgling machinists to realize that I think too many folks are starting out with carbide,
when they would be better off with cheaper tooling.
Herb Kephart
I don't mean to be contrary or make anyone angry but a good machinist knows when to use either HSS or carbide.
On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 10:40 AM Herb Kephart < ebtm3@...> wrote:
If you only have one lathe, set the lowest speed so that a piece about 6" in diameter will run at about 40?
surface feet a minute. This is the maximum speed for cast iron. let the maximum speed for the machine be whatever it turns out to be.
Forget about carbide--learn to sharpen high speed steel toolbits. You will be much better off financially and more of a machinist
Herb Kephart
?
|
I agree with you on this, Dennis. Glen has at least 5 CNCs in his shop, plus at least 3 conventional lathes, one of which is a monster, and has been running his own machine shop for what, 40 years or so.
Your shop was the cleanest and best equipped I've ever been in, Dennis.
I'm just a hobbiest, but based on my experiences, I would not hesitate a second to run carbide tooling on smaller? and older lathes. Before I sold it, I was using carbide in my 100 year old Seneca Falls Star 9" swing lathe with good results.
Dan sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 5
What planet did you guys come from. For one I use only high positive inserts on my lot 6 Dalton.? Second the mith about carbide on older machines is just bull shit.? Modern high positive insert tooling reduces the HP requirements on an old lathe by a hug amount.? Try taking a 1/8 depth of cut in steel on a Lot 6 Dalton with high speed or cemented carbide and you will either slip the belt or stall the motor.? I have taken heavier cuts with a Lot 6 using modern tooling than they ever did in the old days. Also doing this with a 1/3 hp motor.? Also you will learn to run at a much higher speed than you would with HSS and doing so get much better surface finishes.? For one if you really want to learn how to use a small lathe like the Dalton first get a good tool post.? I recommend the OXA size for all but the Dalton 9.? There are a number of nice seven piece high positive tool holder and boring bar insert sets available on eBay or little machine shop.? Use the 3/8 or 10 MM size tool holders.? The inserts that come with these sets are not the best but they are a good start and there are many kinds of inserts out there that will do just fantastic jobs of accuracy surface finish and stock removal rates on your little machines.? So I am off the soap box now. Oh and also Herb I recently sold my company but it is a high tech job shop with over 50 CNC machines very few conventional machines and doing work that you cant even imagine.? Just for starters lets see you thread mill 080? in 6AL-4V titanium.? We were the first company in the world to do so so I do have a bit of experience in what it takes to get a job done and out the door. Turk Mfg specializes in the ultra high vacuum industry or for the lay person we built electron and Ion guns for the computer ship industry. My company also had three clean rooms on site for some really interesting high tech assembly for the vacuum industry. I see Glen has posted on the thread so ask him he has been to the business i just sold.
Dennis
?Please roll with your own interpretations Herb, I agree that high HP and speeds are needed for production high volume machining, but often carbides and ceramics are the only way to cut some materials. I use carbides all the time both at carbide speeds and lower speeds for one off jobs, simply because my time is too valuable to waste grinding HSS and replacing a carbide insert puts you back within .001" normally of where you were when you swapped. I can't believe any experienced machinist doesn't understand relief angles to grind HSS, as there ARE times when HSS is the only way to do some jobs. ?Of course my own practice is to never use lighthouse style holders, and I'd agree, for those who do, it's probably not normally wise to use carbide, as most available carbide tools that would fit are the brased on type, and it's very hard to replace the tool with the precision one gets with QC toolposts and holders and carbide inserts.
?Threading with laydown inserts I find works better than HSS even at slow speeds, in fact other than CNC threading much manual threading is done at lower speeds with "In the white" color chips even with carbide.
?Granted we have hundreds of old carbide inserts in boxes with one or more new edges remaining, so it's not a matter of money for us. It does require more skills and/or experience to thread with carbides if the operator has trouble timing his exit. ?Having said all that let me say that if you are most comfortable using HSS it's all good, I'm not advocating one way or the other as much as saying there are ways to use carbide inserts that are better in my opinion even with a slow and wimpy old lathe at times. With respect, Glen
On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 12:17 PM Herb Kephart < ebtm3@...> wrote:
To successfully employ carbide, you need 2 things--Horsepower, and rigidity. Daltons are a fine little lathe, but they were designed in an era (after the first world war) when high speed steel was replacing carbon steel tooling. We have 5 conventional lathes
here, and 1 CNC. Carbide all ways on the CNC Mazak, the others (up to24" monarch) only sometimes. As far as roughing, and removing the most metal in the least time, here is heat treated 4340 and a HIGH SPEED TOOL
Lathe is a 16" Lodge and Shipley, 5HP spindle. Piece was part of a Stanley Steam car engine crankshaft. You didnt make me angry, my only reason for posting is to try to get fledgling machinists to realize that I think too many folks are starting out with carbide,
when they would be better off with cheaper tooling.
Herb Kephart
I don't mean to be contrary or make anyone angry but a good machinist knows when to use either HSS or carbide.
On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 10:40 AM Herb Kephart < ebtm3@...> wrote:
If you only have one lathe, set the lowest speed so that a piece about 6" in diameter will run at about 40?
surface feet a minute. This is the maximum speed for cast iron. let the maximum speed for the machine be whatever it turns out to be.
Forget about carbide--learn to sharpen high speed steel toolbits. You will be much better off financially and more of a machinist
Herb Kephart
?
|
Dennis Turk
glenn brooks
Dan Linscheid
