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One would have to wonder why the copyright issue is such an issue in the first place. Helen definitely did not have the corner on enlightenment. Not to mention the Course had nothing to do with Helen in reference to authorship. Just like us delusional illusions to either kill the messenger or idolize them. Always remember people in attack mode are there calling for love. Buddha once said to a student of his, "If someone offers you a gift, and you refuse the gift, whom does it belong to"? Copyright issues belong to those with, well….. issues.

I thank all the new members and Gary on this discussion board. I was on the Fearless board and saw the "heated" discussions. I choose not to participate in the positionalities. I like to think of every person as eternal being of light who shares part of this illusory world with me. We may be different wavelengths on the spectrum but we can all shine and occupy the same space together. Together we only add to the intensity – totally and unconditionally. The messages of the Course resonate with me that love and forgiveness will wake me from the world of forms back to the reality of God. The egoic mind always wants us to create more drama, conflicts, and opinions to perpetuate the illusion. I welcome everyone who joins this board in exercising the teachings.

That's an interesting topic, but not an easy one to nail down. I think the reason for that is best stated by Pursah in "Disappearance." "You should keep in mind that each of the four major attitudes of learning are long roads in themselves, and you will sometimes bounce around like a ping pong ball in between them. The Holy Spirit will correct you along the way and set you back in the right direction." (P.37) The Holy Spirit works with all people. They don't have to be studying the Course, but one of the main goals of the Course is to enable us to hear the Voice for God within us more clearly. I personally spent a lot of years in the second attitude of learning, semi-dualism. That's where I was when Arten and Pursah first appeared to me. I was a pretty gentle, New Age type Christian at the time. I knew God was love and Jesus must have practiced unconditional love and forgiveness, but I didn't see a lot of other people really emulating him. And of course I've bounced around like everyone else. Today, I'd say most of the time I'm in the third attitude of learning, non-dualism. I'm very clear that none of this is real, but sometimes it still takes me a while to remember, so I may temporarily act like I think it's real. Then sometimes I remember fast. But like everyone else, when it hits the fan it takes me a while. I think that's a universal experience. Then there are times when I've had glimpses of the absolute truth and experiences of pure non-dualism. They haven't lasted long, but they've been beatific. Some of them have been so great that I couldn't do anything else that day except sit there in a stupor of awe. The cool thing is I know that someday my natural inheritance will be all that I experience, so it encourages me to apply the Holy Spirit's major learning tool of forgiveness as often as possible. Peace, Gary.

Sapient, thanks for your essay on the attitudes of learning. I see no need to respond to it in detail because I think it was comprehensive and made many valid and interesting points. I've asked most of the same questions you have along the way, and as with you, the Holy Spirit has provided the answers and continues to. Peace, Gary.

I would like to start a discussion thread on the "Four Major Attitudes of Learning". What are your thoughts around each one and where do you see yourself in the scale of learning. I have noted each one for reference. Dualism Semi-Dualism Non-Dualism Pure Non-Dualism Thank you, Sapient

Hello, Everyone! Never mind the week long search for you, but "I'm just so proud to be here!" as Minnie Pearl might have said! =) I've read through the thread of messages thus far, and want to thank youngnel97 for starting this list! It will be a pleasure to have Spirit a part of our lives again through this list; ie, NOT to have factioned discussions and egos abounding! LOL... Whew! It's hard work seeing ego everywhere and then realizing that you must have an issue or two hanging out everywhere!!! =) All for now, but want to get into discussions soon on the topic of forgiveness...that daily agenda of mine these days! Love and Blessings to all... Sheila Namast: I honor in you the divinity that I honor within myself and I know we are one. _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

I think all three of you, within your fine observations about duality, non-duality, etc. managed to come up with the Answer. That's a very good sign. Petr very wisely put the focus back on the Workbook and forgiveness, as did youngnel ("constant practice of the teaching") and you Jim, in the way you look at things. As my contribution, I'd like to put here a slightly edited e-mail I sent to a fellow Course student who has been on a spiritual path for many, many years and has studied the Course without it producing very much happiness in his life so far. I think it speaks to a very important issue and can be of value to all of us: Dear ----, You mention how confusing it is to have highly intelligent people like Wapnick and Perry disagreeing with each other. Perhaps we should take more note of the things they don't disagree about. I remind you of the following two statements from ACIM: "This is not a course in philosophical speculation, nor is it concerned with precise terminology. It is concerned only with Atonement, or the correction of perception. The means of the Atonement is forgiveness." (CL77) "Forgiveness is the central theme that runs throughout salvation, holding all its parts in meaningful relationships, the course it runs directed and its outcome sure." (W324) My teachers stressed that without forgiveness, metaphysics are useless, yet time and time again I see people engage in philosophical speculation when talking about the Course; at the same time, I see very little discussion about forgiveness or specific examples of people doing it. That's why I think there are a lot of unhappy people doing the course. I don't know you specifically, so I'm only speaking in general terms here. And I include myself when I say that my teachers were very clear that if I wanted to be happy, I'd use the Course for what it was meant for. I see all around me, from my study group, to friends, to people throughout the Course community, very few people using the Course purposefully and habitually to practice forgiveness. I think I could count on two hands the people I've seen really practicing the Course! (But then I've only been looking for 10 years.) So if you want to be truly unique, you have a marvelous opportunity. If you ever read my book again, I would try to notice most the parts that deal with forgiveness of our relationships and the situations that confront us. I'd say no more than 4 out of the 17 chapters in my book were dominated by metaphysics, but the theme of forgiveness can be found in all 17. I'm not suggesting that you didn't see those things the first time; I'm suggesting they must be utilized with great effort until they become almost automatic. For as the Course says, "Miracles are habits, and should be involuntary." (T3) In other words, unintentional. It takes a long time for that to become such a deep part of you, but it is possible. I wish you God's speed. Peace, Gary.

Beautifully stated, Jim! You wrote: " Everything is a lesson God would have me learn, and all learning is really forgiving.. So bring on the appearance of conflict. Each time I encounter it, I will either respond from fear, and go to war, or respond from love, and forgive." My daily struggle, if and when these days, is accepting my husband and his own inner struggles, along with the resulting and seemingly offensive and childish behaviors. I am especially concerned about our teenage children who perceive him negatively for the most part. The book and the Course have assisted me in learning what a powerful gift this man has been to me and our family. It seems that I do choose each day whether to respond in love or fear, and thanks be to the Holy Spirit it's usually love, and forgiveness certainly follows. But it means that I am also learning to forgive myself and accept my own behaviors, attitudes, and perceptions. This is a quote I will tape onto my computer monitor, as it simply and beautifully nips it in the bud for me! When I struggle with my own perception of anyone at all as appearing less than the child of God s/he is intended to be, I will read: "Everything is a lesson God would have me learn, and all learning is really forgiving.. So bring on the appearance of conflict. Each time I encounter it, I will either respond from fear, and go to war, or respond from love, and forgive." Jim, this is my gift this day! Thank you!!! Sheila Namast: I honor in you the divinity that I honor within myself and I know we are one. From: "Jim Dunn" <jldunn8@...> Reply-To: Disappearance_of_the_Universe@... To: <Disappearance_of_the_Universe@...> Subject: RE: [Disappearance_of_the_Universe] Gary to Petr, youngnel, and Jim on "Attitudes." Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 21:50:08 -0700 Gary, In the groups I have led and the on line chats, I try to emphasize that we will always find what we seek. If we want peace, we will laugh gently at the "seeming" discord within the course community. Remember, the need to be right will surface as long as we still think it holds some value. ACIM has convinced me that no one else has to "do" the course.. It was created by J entirely for me. If I can understand that "Salvation of the world depends on me," then I will not care if Ken and Robert agree of disagree, since I invented both of them in my dreamscape anyway. Everything is a lesson God would have me learn, and all learning is really forgiving.. So bring on the appearance of conflict. Each time I encounter it, I will either respond from fear, and go to war, or respond from love, and forgive. Bless you Gary for this wonderful, uncompromising book. Jim Dunn

I agree Sheila. For most people, the best environment to do the course is the one they are presently in. Not that it makes it easy, but it works as an reminder that it is "a required course". The relationships with people at home or at work make the mess in our mind very visible and often quite painful and therefore hard to forget or deny. I have been keeping in touch with the Course for 3 years, but I didn't seem to have enough time to give it appropriate amount of time to be considered a serious course student. But when our doughter was born and I had to face the negative emotions which came as my reaction to watching a crying baby, I figured out that the time came to become more serious about my mind trainig in order to deal with it in a way I would possibly call successful. I can't imagine a better classroom for me since there were no escape nor a way how to fix the situation on the level of the illusion. So I still have a long way ahead, but at least I got myself moving again :o) Petr

Just thought I'd let you know I'm switching my I.D. to garyrrenard. It's been suggested that this will make it easier for people to recognize. I won't post anymore with g35813. However, you can still e- mail me at g35813@... if you have a question you'd like to ask. Thanks and peace, Gary.

How can a being create a being with the ability to create if that original being was itself not created? With the help of the course I finally solved the riddle "Who came first - the chicken or the egg?" The answer is "Neither - they both don't exist." Meaning to say - if they are both real, the situation is impossible, because whichever one you say came first - I could say the other one came before it. But if they are both imaginary, you can just make up the idea of a chicken and then make up the idea that it lays an egg. You can start the loop anywhere you want. So, I solve that amazing core life question and where does it get me? Nowhere. The course says that I am a created being and I in turn create. That is a chicken and egg scenario. And real chicken and egg scenarios are impossible. You have to have a starting point. So, what is the solution? God is the starting point. He was not created. Which leads me back to my original question. How can a being create a being with the ability to create if that original being was itself not created? You (meaning God) are all there is and then one day decide to go into the infinite self-extension business? Should I feel unique that every being who comes after me has a creator who's been created but I'm the only one with a creator who hasn't?

Hi Everyone...thought you'd enjoy this spiritual review of the new movie that is breaking ground on MANY levels throughout the earth...Matrix Reloaded! Loving Life Outside the Matrix...what Matrix? Sheila Namast: I honor in you the divinity that I honor within myself and I know we are one. From: "Kirael.com" <kiraelemail@...> To: namastebush@... Subject: Kirael Reviews "Matrix Reloaded" Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 01:04:58 -0400 (EDT) KIRAEL PRE-VIEWS and RE-VIEWS "MATRIX RELOADED" A master spirit guide offers a unique insight into this year's first major "message" movie. --------------------------------- http://www.kirael.com (A message brought forth by Master Guide Kirael through the loving mediumship of Reverend Fred Sterling. NOTE: Kirael speaks through Rev. Sterling with a decidedly Celtic accent; hence, the use of "me" for "my" and other colloquialisms.) REV. STERLING: As I sat in the theater waiting for the opening scenes, I wondered if there was a chance that this new "Matrix" movie could ever match up to the original film, which had Lightworkers around the world seeing their journey from a completely new perspective. As I had promised, I called on Master Kirael to see if there were any last minute instructions before "Matrix Reloaded" began. KIRAEL: It would be me highest guidance to remind each who watches, that this unfolding awakening of truth is, in fact, registered in six completely identifiable levels. In short, each will choose to see it at the level most suited to their desire of awakening unto the multi-levels of awareness. The most important thing to remember is that which is spoken of in the onset of this movie adventure: don't let fear rule your world. Level 1 - This is the level where the seer is most taken by the action and costumes and not at all interested to hear any slightly- or fully-veiled messages. On this level, I be thinking the movie was created to awaken a grand array for the human senses. Level 2 - Here, the watcher begins to feel there is more to the movie than meets the eye and actually finds the experience a bit disheveling because they came to see what their minds remembered of the last movie, and they simply wanted it to fit into their belief systems. It doesn't. This one moves the watcher to levels unchecked by restraints and at Level 2, fear may still be part of the life plan. These will be the most vocal against the movie. Level 3 - At this level, the searcher within one's self comes out. Here, one's mind is opened to the possibility that the world has changed since the original "Matrix" and the writers needed to move to new levels. Still, there is the feeling that something is missing. The desire to understand is strong, but old belief systems want to maintain control. Each at this level will be ultra-clear that they may have to watch it over and over again. Level 4 - On this awareness level, it [is] as though the human part of the mind (the ten-percent) seems to be torn into different realities. In this consciousness, the sights, sounds, and even the emotional stirrings are erupting into the need to find the answers to the seemingly puzzling array of possibilities that are emanating from the screen. Yet, in that moment they do understand. Level 5 - Can the mind split in two? The answer to that long-asked question will flow like a torrent of new awakenings when this movie is seen at this level. The mind watches the action unfold, while the interactive portion of the higher-self attempts to show you the meaning behind each word. Here, you find yourself 'oohing' and 'ahhing' while people around you are wanting you to keep your awakenings to your self. Imagine, a multiple awakening while in the constraints of being physical. Level 6 - If you're to see it at this level, there is no need to explain. Here the entire movie becomes a text of the unfolding of "the Shift" you have only read about so far. Here, you get a visual and emotional experience that serves as a reminder that this type of event has unfolded many times before in real life -- yet on an entirely different level of consciou

For those of you who may be interested in seeing comments from readers or the latest reviews of "The Disappearance of the Universe" the Fearless Books website has a page dedicated to it which also has links to excerpts from the book and an interview with me. This is also a good page link to give to people who may be interested in finding out more about the book. Please feel free to share it with your friends! Thanks and peace, Gary. http://www.fearlessbooks.com/Disappearance.htm

Hello garyrrenard@..., In reference to your comment: è Hey BBFBBN! That was an excellent commentary on è "The Matrix." It makes me want to see it even more. I è just thought I'd pass along to you that Jon Mundy told è me he is now cancer free, which is wonderful. Love è and peace, Gary. Wonderful news!!!! I had a feeling when he shared it with the group (and it was a large group) that this was going to be the result. I just did not sense "fear". I did sense concern, which is natural, but I got the feeling that he saw this as a lesson that came up and it was clear in his sharing that he was not looking at this lesson alone. Peace

Hi Sheila! (and everybody) Namaste. I went to a Workshop here in Maine a couple of weeks ago that Jon Mundy was giving at the Unity church and everybody was saying Namaste. I thought that was pretty cool. Jon introduced me to the crowd and he sold all 20 of the "Disappearance" books he had with him. I signed most of them and it was a lot of fun. He also gave a kick ass Workshop. Jon's been studying and teaching the Course since 1975, and he's been a minister since 1961! (He was 18 then, and he just turned 60.) He may have me do a Workshop with him in New York City in the fall. That would be a fun trip, being the birthplace of the Course and all. I've only been to NYC like 3 times. Anyhow, Jon has a great bi-monthly newsletter called "Miracles Magazine" and he writes about "Disappearance" in the newest issue (May-June issue) along with other subjects. Many writers contribute and there's a lot of info about the Course, including contacts throughout the country. It's free for the asking, although it's appropriate to make a donation when you feel so guided. Just send your name, address, e-mail and birthday (it's part of their system) to IPR c/o Rev. Jon Mundy, 39 Hickory Drive, Campbell Hall, NY 10916. Just ask him add you to the Miracles Magazine list and to be sure to send you the May-June issue that talks about "The Disappearance of the Universe." Sheila, I really appreciate you telling people about the book. And as you may remember from the book, movies are my hobby. I haven't seen Matrix Re-loaded yet but I will soon. I loved the first one. I think The Matrix is to this generation what the first 3 Star Wars movies were to the last. What's really exciting about that for me is that they present the idea of the world not being real in a fascinating way. That kind of thinking really helps prepare people to accept the kinds of ideas that are taught in the Course. I'm looking forward to seeing "Re-loaded" real soon! BTW, as far being a Bible is concerned, I don't even want the Bible to be a Bible! But I'm sure you already know that. Love and peace, Gary.

Will you be doing tapes of the book ... like for listening while on the road?

Every now and then, a day comes along where I have experiences of amazing peace, and today was one of those days. Although Arten and Pursah always stressed how important it was to do my forgiveness homework, even if I had to do it later on, they also mentioned on several occasions that there would be welcome times of peace that came as a result. One of the great things is that when I feel so happy and peaceful I know it's because of the Course, even when those peaceful times are unexpected. Today, when I was meditating, I got to the point where there were no thoughts; only stillness. I joined with God and that's all there was. Then, later on, I still felt that way. I felt that way all day! I know other people must have those kinds of days where they feel the peace of God, and experience that the world cannot affect them. Love and peace, Gary.

Read about the author, Gary, and thought it interesting that I was brought up in Amesbury, Massachusetts and there was a North Shore there. Wonder if it is the same somehow. Also, Lewiston, Maine. I used to go to Girl Scout camp up there. An overnight camp! A big deal when I was a kid. Gary, I hope you don't leave too quickly. I am just starting and don't even have time to comment much yet - for a couple of days - as I am staying home from work right now to get some hard work out of the way, but I am sure I will have a lot of questions to ask. I am marking spots in the book already. Just a comment right now about the craziness of it all. I was kind of laughing today at how different situations look after I forgive. Of course, in some way or another, I think the other person does not like me or wants to hurt me in some way. I build up a whole scenario in my mind - big or little - of what I think the story is - what has happened, how they think, etc. But the funny thing is - and I have seen it over and over and over again - is that after I forgive I find out that the person did not dislike me or want to hurt me. Usually it is a simple mistake or the person was tied up in something I did not understand and that had nothing to do with me. When I forgive, the whole thing seems so silly and laughable even on one level and like nothing at all. But the biggest surprise is seeing the love and caring in the other person's eyes. In other words I see that when I was upset, I was not even seeing anything that was there at all. I was making it all up. It's really amazing. I have even had chances in the last year or two to get in touch iwth people of years ago and find out that the same thing is true. At least on some level I am beginning to see how it is all an illusion and how I make it up. Linda

Hi Linda! Yes, I'm originally from the North Shore of Massachusetts. As you'll see in the book, I was born in Salem. I've been to Amesbury a few times. I lived mostly in Beverly until I moved to Poland Spring, Maine (where most of the book takes place, although I didn't say so.) I've now lived in Auburn, which is right next to Lewiston, for the last three years. Small world, huh? Oh I forgot, there is no world! Silly me. What you say about our perception and everything being made up is very true. I've had that same experience many times, where what I thought a person was thinking turned out to not be true at all, and was completely based on my own assumptions. Has anybody else ever had that experience? (LOL) As the Course says, "Projection makes perception." It's just hard sometimes to remember how literally true that is! I hope you enjoy the book, and I'm looking forward to hearing from you again sometime. Love and peace, Gary.

Before the book came out, one of the things I thought might cause the most discussion was the smart-ass type style that is sometimes evident. I mention in my Author's Note that Pursah told me their style was designed to get me to pay attention. Also, readers will note that *my* smart ass comments were usually a defense against my painful shyness, which I didn't really start to get over until this latest phase of my life with my ascended visitors and the Course. It's been surprising to me that I really haven't received many complaints about this particular subject. Even in exchanging e-mails with priests (both Catholic and Episcopalian) and ministers, I don't think I've heard one negative comment about the book's style. A priest told me it's nothing compared to what he hears in confession! In any case, A Course in Miracles says, "If you would be heard by those who suffer, you must speak their language. If you would be a savior, you must understand what needs to be escaped." (M64-65) So maybe my visitors knew what they were doing. However, I'd be happy to hear any comments, positive or negative, about what any of you thought when you first noticed that this book didn't have the same style as most of the other spiritual books, and whether or not you found it helpful in communicating the message it was intended to. Love and peace, Gary.