开云体育

At Smiths Falls, Ont this morning March 8 2000 between 5:00am to 7:00am

#509-07 05:06am Departure CP 5601, 5584 (Westbound - Belleville Sub.)
#481-08 05:45am Departure CP 6021, 5705, 6623 (Westbound - Chalk River
Sub)
#482-04 05:56am Departure CP 9000, 5999, 5942 (Eastbound to Montreal)
#471-08 06:00am Departure CP 9023, 5756, 5693 (Westbound - Chalk
River Sub.)
#500-05 06:22am Arrival CP 5688, 5639 (Eastbound to Montreal)
#326-04 06:44am Departure CP 9017, 5871, 5770, soo6012 (Eastbound to
Montreal)
#923-03 07:05am Departure CP 9152 (Westbound - Belleville Sub.)

From: "cprdb" <cprdb@...>
Reply-To: C-P-R@...
To: "C-P-R list" <C-P-R@...>
Subject: [C-P-R] MODERATOR'S RESPONSE TO COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:04:11 -0800

REFERENCE: This topic, while perhaps about a CPR publication, is outside the scope of the list. Thanks - Bill Miller <bmiller@...>

I was hoping this discussion would be allowed to continue a while longer and not be nipped in the bud quite so quickly. The publication of data and information is fundamental to the hobby of railfanning and model railroading. Even more so now with the instant communication provided by the Internet.

But what about information contained in this list? If I take something and publish it for profit am I stealing the Poster's copyright? If I publish a photograph from someone's personal website am I stealing their copyright?

- - - snip - - -

Yes. If you take/use a photo from someone's website without permission for other than personal non-profit use , you are in violation of copyright. I have never had a problem (that I know of). I have been asked to use photos from Mile 77 and have given permission at no charge.

Try using a photo from the official CPR website and see what happens IF they find out about it. You will will be asked to discontinue it's use.

Wayne
Mile 77




______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at

From: "camerons" <camerons@...>
Reply-To: C-P-R@...
To: <C-P-R@...>
Subject: Re: [C-P-R] At the Falls this morning
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:59:35 -0500

Hi Jean-Francois:

As far as I now they are going via OVR. Saw a lashup last Sunday at the OVR
yard in North Bay of 8 yes 8 locos .( all SD40-2's) They headed west with
a load of empty grain hoppers.

cheers

Doug
camerons@...

Yep. Got the shot at Coniston just coming off OVR territory. They swapped a few units around in North Bay but still totalled 8 though. First 4 pulling, second 4 idling off line.

Wayne
Mile 77
Sudbury Ontario

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at

Further to my post of yesterday: Don Scott reminded me, I had
forgotten about the original scheme that the 2100s and other
lightweight cars of the first series came in, which was the black
panel with gold Canadian Pacific on it outlined with gold. The photo
I have is B&W. Was this in Gold leaf or Dulux Gold?
Allen

For the last couple of years, Bryce Lee has produced the excellent monthly
"Canada Calling" railway news column, carried on TrainsCan and elsewhere.
This is a very popular item.

However, I received the following from Bryce the other day:

------------------

March 07, 2000

It is with regret that I announce the end of "Canada Calling" edited by
Bryce Lee, effective with the most recent issue sent by e-mail.

The influx of considerable 'instant' news being available on the internet;
combined with the amount of my volunteer time it takes to assemble Canada
Calling means I simply no longer wish to continue. Doing the column is no
longer enjoyable. It is time to pull the pin.

The current plan is to continue, as a contributing editor to the News From
Canada column in Railpace Newsmagazine. Railpace Newsmagazine is available
by subscription from P.O. Box 927, Piscataway, NJ 08854-0927 USA. Their
website is www.railpace.com.

In addition a superb Canadian publication covering much of the material
currently in Canada Calling is Branchline. The publication is available in
most hobby shops as well as by subscription from Bytown Railway Society,
P.O. Box 141, Station "A", Ottawa, Ontario K1N 8V1 Canada.

To all who have contributed over the years, thank you.

Sincerely yours,


Bryce Lee.

------------

I'm currently reviewing the options for a substitute column on TrainsCan.
(It will have to be a 'substitute' -- nothing could 'replace' the excellent
work the Bryce has done!) So please send me any news items that you have
without delay. The concentration will be on the Canadian railway industry
and events in Canada, although I recognize that determining what's Canadian
and what's not is sometimes tricky on the increasingly connect railway
scene of North America.

Thanks Bryce for your hard work and excellent columns. Good luck for the
future!

Cheers,


###### |&#92;^/| Timothy C. Green, CD, PEng, MEng
###### _|&#92;| |/|_ tcg@...
###### > < TrainsCan, RailWeb, TCG PEng
###### >_./|&#92;._<

This topic, while perhaps about a CPR publication, is outside the scope of
the list. Thanks.





========================================================================
Bill Miller
Canadian Pacific Railway News Editor - CTC Board Railroads Illustrated
List Moderator - C-P-R@...
========================================================================
The View From Galt Station ICQ# 9907692
"
Canadian Pacific Railway Diesel Locomotive Roster
"
========================================================================

CPR's Head at Surface Transportation Board Hearings Pertaining to
BNSF/CN Proposed Merger:

I tuned into my TV this afternoon(March 7) at 1530PST on CBC's half-hour
Business program, and the STB hearings the first day of four regarding
the proposed BNSF/CN merger. So what I understand it was hostile. Out of
160 business, shippers, the United States Military; only 12 people were
in favour of the merger out of 160. Even to shareholders were there.

CPR's President and CSX president were together, against the talked
about merger. Norfolk Southern, Union Pacific officials during the 30
min. program were not seen.

From my thoughts putting two and two together, CN is acting like
Trans-Canada Airlines, now Air Canada a former Government owned airline
prior to 1992 or 1993 dictating the airline industry in Canada, and one
phone call to Ottawa putting another airline out of business. This is
still going on today. I could write a book of the days of the arrogent
attitude TCA/Air Canada had against Canadian Pacific Airlines, and my
own experience in the industry for almost 32 years.

Canadian Pacific Railway and Tax Grabs From Governments.

While taking time tonight listening on Public Television and the Pitt
Meadows ' B.C. City Council meeting, one lady on the council expressed
her happiness that the Municipality scammed $100,000.00 from CPR for
building their new Intermodal Terminal in their area, only opened for
about seven months.

CPR's Pitt River Bridge across the Pitt River that divides Port
Coquitlam and Pitt River grabs $1 million in taxes($500.000.00 each)
taxing the railway's own property and right-of -way. That was over two
years ago, it could be higher now.

Railways especially in Canada are a tax grab; Municipal, Provincial
Goverment, and Federal.

Bus Lines, trucking companies, airlines all infrastructure is built for
them, the private automobile, and not paying their fair share. The
railway industry is one of the first places where to increase taxes. In
Canada, CPR has quoted that Saskatchewan and Manitoba is where they pay
the higest fuel taxes in the Country. No wonder CP route a good amount
of their traffic via the CP lines in the U.S. to reach Eastern Canada.

Speaking of the Kansas City Southern, if KCS only knew what CN's
planning was buying Illinois Central $3.5 billion U.S. borrowed from the
Bank of Montreal and a major Financial firm in New York-then later the
CN/BNSF fiasco, KCS would have never signed a traffic agreement betwen
CN/IC/KCS. CN's proposed deal with BNSF is very political. CN's head
seems to want to be the main spokesman for all the railroads in North
America-would,nt know a 4-6-2 from a SD90-MAC., just another ex
Political friend of a friend from our "Glorious Capital of
Ottawa"-always shovelling money off the back of a truck to their
friends.

From what I understand Kansas City Southern feel double-crossed and want
out of the agreement. over three to four years ago CP was interested in
KCS-toured the railway-looked at the books. CP at that time thought the
asking price was too much. Maybe there could again be a deal between
CP/KCS.

Illinois Central just about serves all the areas where KCS serves except
IC into Kansas City. Why would CN have wanted a deal in a traffic
arrangement now that they own IC.

Back in the early 1990's prior to the Government forgiving some of CN's
debt and paying off a good sum of it prior to privatization, CN one
period could not make their payroll, a good number of employees had to
wait a week or so to pick up their cheques.

Don Scott-Coquitlam, B.C.

Hello all:

Roger and Patrick have touched upon a problem that I've run into myself.
About 2 years ago, I was more than a little surprised to walk into the
model railway display at the S.S. Sicamous in Penticton and find a
photocopy of an article I wrote for Canadian Railway Modeller, plastered
to the edge of the layout. There was (and the last time I looked) no
credit for either myself or CRM. I requested the club to credit myself
and CRM for the article and was promised that would be done. Guess
what?! When I looked last fall, the article was still there and no
credits. I don't know what Morgan Turney's thoughts are about the
matter, but when I recently discovered this credit had not been
forthcoming, I too found myself wondering what to do.

I have too many other things on my plate right now to pursue a
relatively small matter a long way from home, but I sure understand how
Roger feels. One hell of a lot of time, trouble AND money has gone into
rounding up the material that we use in our publications. I'm glad that
people saw my article worthy enough to display, but it seems to me that
at very least, common courtesy would dictate that myself or CRM was
approached first and then given due credit. The same goes for CP Tracks
with Roger.

I don't know about Roger's future course, but at some point the fellows
in Penticton are going to hear more about my matter. It is not a
pleasant feeling to be so completely disassociated from a personal
labour of love.

Joe Smuin
Port Coquitlam

plawson@... wrote:

A Few Locomotive Lead Unit Numbers In And out Port Coquitlam
Yard(Vancouver Area)B.C. on Canadian Pacific's "Cascade Sub-Division"

All Information Listening to Scanner:

February 21, 2000
1130-SD90-43MAC 9144 Eastbound at Port Coquitlam Yard-Total 100 cars.
February 25, 2000
0840-SD40-2 6061 Eastbound-Intermodal at new CP Pitt Meadows Intermodal
Terminal east of Port Coquitlam

February 28, 2000
1540-GE AC4400CW 9535 Eastbound at Port Coquitlam Yard
1620-SD40-2 6032 Westbound INtermodal Train at Port Haney to new CP Pitt
Meadows Intermodal terminal.

February 29, 2000
0845-GE AC4400CW 9585 Westbound at Mission West.

March 2, 2000
1225-GP-38 3003 Eastbound "Sumas Local" via Mission then south to
Sumas/Huntington, Wash. CP/BNSF interchange.
1230-GE AC4400CW 9592 Westbound at Maple Meadows

March 4, 2000
0920-GE AC4400CW 9562 Eastbound at Port Coquitlam Yard.

March 5, 2000
0740-GE AC4400CW 9610 Eastbound at Maple Meadows.
0745-SD40-2 5969 Westbound at Maple Meadows

March 7, 2000
2020-GE AC4400CW 9564 Eastbound at Port Coquitlam Yard.
2025-GE AC4400CW 8507 Westbound at Albion, B.C.
2040-GE AC4400CW 9645 Eastbound at Port Couitlam Yard.
Canadian Pacific Railway-Mile 114 "Cascade Sub-Division"

David Scott.
"Canadian Pacific-Spanning The World Since the 1880's".

Reference CP3005 ex E&N paint job re-lettering... does anyone have a photo yet? Please give us a URL

SLiM - cprdb@...

Visit Victoria!

UP 009144 ,ST PAUL ,MN,02/29,08:24,C,L,057026, , ,
,Arrival at Destn.
UP 009151 ,ST PAUL ,MN,03/04,16:40,C,L,065002, , ,
,Arrival In Transit
UP 009162 ,ALYTH ,AB,03/07,10:28,M,L,042905, , ,
,Arrival at Destn.
UP 009215 ,ALYTH ,AB,03/05,00:28,M,L,097703, , ,
,Arrival at Destn.

and the Super-Carrot that won't go home ......

BNSF 004920 ,IXONIA ,WI,03/07,17:49,C,L,020107, , ,
,Arrival In Transit



Bill

Rodger Burrows,

I have used both of your Railway Milepost books extensively - to the point where they are held together with miles of tape - however they are highly valued by me.

Some time ago, when Walley Major was editor of CP Tracks I was sent an advance issue of CP Tracks with an article of mine that had been copied word for word from RMC. I immediately informed him that he must get permission before copying and distributing copyrighted material! Fortunately I was able to stop the issue from going to press.
It appears the lesson wasn't learned then?

What to do?

For a start, get CP Tracks to realize the legal trouble they are in.
Shame on CP Tracks!


Regards,

Patrick Lawson, MMR
Contributing Editor, Model Railroading Magazine.

---------------------------

From: "Roger Burrows" <rgburrow@...>


Last week, I posted the following to the Observation Car newsgroup. ObsCar
is a moderated discussion forum dedicated to commentary, debate and
criticism of railroad art and literature. Members include railroad magazine
editors, and well-known writers and photographers. My posting prompted
considerable comment, both within the group and directly to me. All of the
comment so far has been complementary to me, my books, and to the way I have
handled things so far.

So, CPR and CP SIG list members, I would like to read your opinion. If,
after reviewing the following, you have any comments or suggestions about
dealing with this situation, please post a response and/or contact me
directly.

I am also open to a direct response from CP Tracks' "publication team" and
from CP Sig's "executive team", before I take the next steps in resolving
this matter.

Thanks

Roger Burrows,
North Vancouver, BC
e-mail: rgburrow@...
fax: (604) 985-7221
phone: (604) 985-0035


(My posting to Observation Car was as follows:)

I hope this is considered "on topic" for Observation Car, and that I can get
some constructive comment from some members who are in the publishing
industry.

Back in the 1980's I produced two books entitled "Railway Mileposts: British
Columbia". Perhaps some of you are familiar with them. I know that both
Dale and Brian at CTC Board, Bruce Kelly when at R&R, and the listmeister
have all used my Mileposts books and have commented favorably. Volume I
covered the CPR mainline route and Volume II described the "Southern
Routes", including CPR's Crowsnest - Kettle Valley Route and the Great
Northern routes in southern B.C. Both relied heavily on scale maps in
describing the rail routes.

In September 1998, I picked-up a copy of "CP Tracks", a publication of CPR
SIG which is a special interest group of the NMRA. I was surprised to see
an article that "borrowed" heavily on one of my books. Hell, it copied some
of my maps and one of my photos, without permission.

So, I e-mailed Dave Love (CP SIG's president[?]) and Glen Moffat (CP Tracks
editor), sending the following letter which I thought was quite reasonable
under the circumstances. It read:

"I was surprised recently when I picked up a copy of the "Summer 1998" issue
of "CP Tracks".

"Peter Abel's "Kettle Valley Memoirs" includes several maps, data, and a
photograph, all taken I believe, directly from my book "Railway Mileposts:
British Columbia, volume II, the Southern Routes", copyright 1984.
Although the photograph was credited to me, the data and maps (which were
only slightly modified from those that I made for the book) were not.

"I don't recall giving Mr. Abel (or others) permission for this use.

"I often grant permission for such use by non-profit organizations on the
condition that proper credit is given, and that I receive a copy of each
publication. For example, the Nelson-area rails-to-trails group recently
included materials from one of my books in their brochure on that basis.

"I don't want to appear to be to be too much of a curmudgeon about this, and
I don't want to discourage the valuable efforts of CP SIG, but I believe
that proper credit (and an explanation) is due. BTW, volume II of "Railway
Mileposts: British Columbia" remains in print."

(signed) Roger Burrows, North Vancouver, BC


I had a phone call in response to my e-mail, including a verbal apology and
a promise to look into things. I heard nothing more, no explanation, no
request for permission, nothing. Neither verbally nor on paper.

So, it was with some amazement recently that I found two more issues of CP
Tracks (Summer and Fall 1999) at my local hobby shop, both of which included
maps copied directly from my books. Each recent issue included two or more
of my maps, reproduced up to full page size, none of which was credited to
me (the copyright holder) or to Railway Milepost Books. (There is however a
short list of "references" in the article which includes the title of my
book along with several other titles.) A list of back issues inside the
back cover of CP Tracks indicates that the Fall 1999 issue is the fifth
issue to include Kettle Valley Memoirs, presumeably all with my maps copied
from my books.

Now don't get me wrong, I enjoyed producing Railway Mileposts: British
Columbia. But I did not commit my time and invest considerable sums of
money for questionable return, only to have someone simply copy a valuable
part of my work without permission and without credit. Drawing the maps was
probably the most tedious and time-consuming part of the project. They were
drawn by me by hand in ink on mylar. Not only that, the book from which
they were copied remains in print, that is, we have copies to sell.

CP Tracks says in its recent issues "This publication and its contents may
be copied for non-commercial use only - the author, CP Tracks and CPR SIG
must be credited". So, not only have they copied my material without
permission or credit, but they are permitting unlimited non-commercial use
of my material with their credit. Nice. CP SIG apparently has about 500
members, and sells additonal copies of CP Tracks for $5.00 each (I don't
know the total publication numbers).


So, what do I do???

Some things that spring to mind include some or all of the following:

1. Take legal action (after all, my wife works for a law firm)

2. Demand restitution (based on what?)

3. Demand a full printed explanation and apology

4. Require them to purchase unsold books at list price

5. Demand free advertising equivalent to the column-inches of my maps
copied

6. Other suggestions?


So, Observation Car members, if you have read this far, thanks for your
perserverence. If you have any suggestions about dealing with this
situation, please post a response to ObsCar, and/or contact me directly.

Thanks

Roger Burrows,
North Vancouver, BC
e-mail: rgburrow@...
fax: (604) 985-7221
phone: (604) 985-0035

Dear C-P-R List Members:

I have been reading Posts on the list, speaking of CPR passenger
equipment.

Back in 1939 during the "Royal Visit" on the King & Queen across Canada
and the United States; the evening at Moncton, N.B. station(of the other
railway) there were two special eastbound trains-Firt the arrival of the
"Pilot Train" made up of Canadian Pacific cars and the other road, in
their own respective colours; followed about 20 Mins later by the Royal
Train, again cars from both roads in the Royal Blue and creame scheme.

The "Pilot Train" and pertaining to the CP heavyweights; all CP cars had
the-"Panel Style" lettering. If I can describe it-Gold border
lines-inside the borders Black -then gold letters Canadian Pacific.
Below the CP cars windows and in the centre of cars-the Canadian Pacific
all system "Shield" with:

Canadian Pacific
Railway Lines
World's Greatest Travel System

The CP shield also applied to the new light-weight streamlined
mail-express cars, combination baggage-parlor-buffet cars. and the 2100
series day-coaches. On those 2100 series coaches, one could dine right
at your seats, being waited on and served by coach stewards. These cars
as all of you know were introduced in 1936-CPR's first streamlined
passenger trains, powered by the "Speedy" streamlined 4-4-4 "Jubilees"
3000 to 3004. These streamlined cars had the same style Gold & Black
panel with lettering CP in Gold.

The first time I was aboard one of thes shorter 2100 series coaches was
in Saint John, NB. Union Station-the first one ever seen East of
Montreal or Quebec City. This particular coach arrived on the "Second
Montreal" train #42 "Atlantic Limited".

In 1949 on one of my trips on the Labour-Day weekend via CP's "Princess
Helene" from Daint John to Digby, Nova Scotia, was very much surprised
to see a number of the same 2100 coaches operating on passenger trains
"#95 and #98 both day-trains on the Halifax-Yarmouth service-the
westbound #95 with light 4-6-2 2515(lettered CP) and eastbound light
4-6-2 2552(lettered Dominion Atlantic). I could go further. These cars
were also on the Halifax-Yarmouth service on one of my trips
Halifax-Kentville on train #95 back in the Fall of 1951 and continued
until "Dayliner" service commenced during late October of 1956.

Don Scott-Coquitlam, B.C.


Don S

CPR change from metalic gold leaf to imitation or Dulux gold for
their passenger equipment and steam engines by 1936. A date of 1935
is also possible. The then new curved side lightweight equipment, to
the best of my knowledge, was never painted in gold leaf. CPR
repainted passenger equipment about every 3 years so virtually all
equipment (heavyweight and wood) would have been repainted to Dulux
by 1939. As in all rules there may be exceptions. Although some steam
locos were repainted in gold leaf in
1949 the passengers were never repainted in gold leaf.
Dulux or imitation gold is a very hard colour to match and is a long
way from lemon yellow. The prototype used a gloss paint and our
models are flat finish. Also a bright colour doesn't "scale" well.
The (now discotinued) Accucal diesel decal set had the best match in
my opinion and matched their paints. In work on the CN side a new set
of Scalecoat paints have appeared via the SIG but the yellow was
matched to a flat paint and ended up a little too light. The
Microscale decals ended up looking too green when next to this paint.
The CN guys have to have matching yellow paint and decals.
On the CP side it's the same colour but we don't have to match yellow
decal to yellow paint. It just has to look right when on a car. At
Black Cat our Dulux gold may not match a colour chip but does look
right on a car. The same goes for our tuscan stripe on stainless
equipment (we matched to Scalecoat there).
We offer T & N class sleepers, Baggage, and A class Dining cars in
gold leaf and Dulux gold. Our curved side coach and grove sleeper are
available in both as well for those of you who don't like my 1936
date. As with any opinion on the net - it's worth what you paid:)
Allen

--- In C-P-R@..., "Mike Salfi" <msalfi@s...>
wrote:

I am trying to understand the differences in the color of the

lettering on

CPR's fleet of heavyweight and lightweight tuscan cars (not the

stainless

steel) passenger cars in the 1950's.

The C-D-S dry transfers define Gold and Imitation Gold lettering,

with the

imitation gold being a yellow color, similar to the yellow on the

C-D-S dry

transfers for the stainless steel cars. Further, the C-D-S

instruction

identify the gold as being used pre 1935 and the imitation gold

being used

post 1935. Now I can well understand that heavyweight passenger

cars that

were lettered in gold prior to 1935 would have lasted into the

1940's and

even possibly the 1950's but what about the lightweight passenger

cars

commonly refered to as the "Grove" cars. Was the lettering on

these cars

yellow or gold. From the photo's in John Riddell's "Canadian

Pacific Color

Guide ..." it looks like the lettering could be gold.

Or is it that the C-D-S yellow is simply too yellow.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Michael Salfi
Kitchener, Ontario

email: msalfi@...

We are the navvies who work upon the railway,
Swinging our hammers in the bright glazing sun,
Laying down track and building the bridges,
Bending our backs till the railroad is done.

From "The Canadian Railroad Trilogy", by Gordon Lightfoot

Last week, I posted the following to the Observation Car newsgroup. ObsCar
is a moderated discussion forum dedicated to commentary, debate and
criticism of railroad art and literature. Members include railroad magazine
editors, and well-known writers and photographers. My posting prompted
considerable comment, both within the group and directly to me. All of the
comment so far has been complementary to me, my books, and to the way I have
handled things so far.

So, CPR and CP SIG list members, I would like to read your opinion. If,
after reviewing the following, you have any comments or suggestions about
dealing with this situation, please post a response and/or contact me
directly.

I am also open to a direct response from CP Tracks' "publication team" and
from CP Sig's "executive team", before I take the next steps in resolving
this matter.

Thanks

Roger Burrows,
North Vancouver, BC
e-mail: rgburrow@...
fax: (604) 985-7221
phone: (604) 985-0035


(My posting to Observation Car was as follows:)

I hope this is considered "on topic" for Observation Car, and that I can get
some constructive comment from some members who are in the publishing
industry.

Back in the 1980's I produced two books entitled "Railway Mileposts: British
Columbia". Perhaps some of you are familiar with them. I know that both
Dale and Brian at CTC Board, Bruce Kelly when at R&R, and the listmeister
have all used my Mileposts books and have commented favorably. Volume I
covered the CPR mainline route and Volume II described the "Southern
Routes", including CPR's Crowsnest - Kettle Valley Route and the Great
Northern routes in southern B.C. Both relied heavily on scale maps in
describing the rail routes.

In September 1998, I picked-up a copy of "CP Tracks", a publication of CPR
SIG which is a special interest group of the NMRA. I was surprised to see
an article that "borrowed" heavily on one of my books. Hell, it copied some
of my maps and one of my photos, without permission.

So, I e-mailed Dave Love (CP SIG's president[?]) and Glen Moffat (CP Tracks
editor), sending the following letter which I thought was quite reasonable
under the circumstances. It read:

"I was surprised recently when I picked up a copy of the "Summer 1998" issue
of "CP Tracks".

"Peter Abel's "Kettle Valley Memoirs" includes several maps, data, and a
photograph, all taken I believe, directly from my book "Railway Mileposts:
British Columbia, volume II, the Southern Routes", copyright 1984.
Although the photograph was credited to me, the data and maps (which were
only slightly modified from those that I made for the book) were not.

"I don't recall giving Mr. Abel (or others) permission for this use.

"I often grant permission for such use by non-profit organizations on the
condition that proper credit is given, and that I receive a copy of each
publication. For example, the Nelson-area rails-to-trails group recently
included materials from one of my books in their brochure on that basis.

"I don't want to appear to be to be too much of a curmudgeon about this, and
I don't want to discourage the valuable efforts of CP SIG, but I believe
that proper credit (and an explanation) is due. BTW, volume II of "Railway
Mileposts: British Columbia" remains in print."

(signed) Roger Burrows, North Vancouver, BC


I had a phone call in response to my e-mail, including a verbal apology and
a promise to look into things. I heard nothing more, no explanation, no
request for permission, nothing. Neither verbally nor on paper.

So, it was with some amazement recently that I found two more issues of CP
Tracks (Summer and Fall 1999) at my local hobby shop, both of which included
maps copied directly from my books. Each recent issue included two or more
of my maps, reproduced up to full page size, none of which was credited to
me (the copyright holder) or to Railway Milepost Books. (There is however a
short list of "references" in the article which includes the title of my
book along with several other titles.) A list of back issues inside the
back cover of CP Tracks indicates that the Fall 1999 issue is the fifth
issue to include Kettle Valley Memoirs, presumeably all with my maps copied
from my books.

Now don't get me wrong, I enjoyed producing Railway Mileposts: British
Columbia. But I did not commit my time and invest considerable sums of
money for questionable return, only to have someone simply copy a valuable
part of my work without permission and without credit. Drawing the maps was
probably the most tedious and time-consuming part of the project. They were
drawn by me by hand in ink on mylar. Not only that, the book from which
they were copied remains in print, that is, we have copies to sell.

CP Tracks says in its recent issues "This publication and its contents may
be copied for non-commercial use only - the author, CP Tracks and CPR SIG
must be credited". So, not only have they copied my material without
permission or credit, but they are permitting unlimited non-commercial use
of my material with their credit. Nice. CP SIG apparently has about 500
members, and sells additonal copies of CP Tracks for $5.00 each (I don't
know the total publication numbers).


So, what do I do???

Some things that spring to mind include some or all of the following:

1. Take legal action (after all, my wife works for a law firm)

2. Demand restitution (based on what?)

3. Demand a full printed explanation and apology

4. Require them to purchase unsold books at list price

5. Demand free advertising equivalent to the column-inches of my maps
copied

6. Other suggestions?


So, Observation Car members, if you have read this far, thanks for your
perserverence. If you have any suggestions about dealing with this
situation, please post a response to ObsCar, and/or contact me directly.

Thanks

Roger Burrows,
North Vancouver, BC
e-mail: rgburrow@...
fax: (604) 985-7221
phone: (604) 985-0035

Why don't you upload it to the files section of OneList. Then anybody that wants it can get it and it will be there for future subscribers.

"Mike Salfi" <msalfi@...> 03/06 18:57 >>>

From: "Mike Salfi" <msalfi@...>

I guess I have to apologize as well. I saw Rob's name but didn't to check
to see where the message came from and sent the file to the list

Michael Salfi
Kitchener, Ontario

--- jpaulb1@... wrote:

Guess I'll strive for the Christmas tree look next year! he he
Oh!.. CP9114 went past me tonight at the scale track...uhm...can't remember
who or what train, lots of conversation going on when we have a trainee!

Speaking of 9114:

EQUIPMENT
INITNUMBER LOCN PR/ST MM/DD HH:MM TRAIN STATUS
CP 9114 HARVEY ND 02/10 05:16 065609 Departure in Transit
CP 9114 PORTAGE WI 02/11 14:21 065609 Departure in Transit
CP 9114 LOUISVILL KY 02/13 20:20 065613 Arrival In Transit
CP 9114 LATTA IN 02/15 04:26 024114 Arrival In Transit
CP 9114 LATTA IN 02/15 17:20 024114 Departure in Transit
CP 9114 WINONA MN 02/18 05:25 020117 Arrival In Transit
CP 9114 GLENWOOD MN 02/21 06:24 057320 Arrival In Transit
CP 9114 GLENWOOD MN 02/21 16:33 057320 Departure in Transit
CP 9114 MINOT ND 02/22 10:20 057320 Departure in Transit
CP 9114 SWIFTCUR SK 02/23 04:58 057320 Departure in Transit
CP 9114 MEDICINE AB 02/23 11:15 057320 Departure in Transit
CP 9114 MOOSEJAW SK 02/24 16:31 040824 Arrival In Transit
CP 9114 BROADVIEW SK 02/25 06:35 040824 Departure in Transit
CP 9114 BRANDON MB 02/25 12:39 040824 Departure in Transit
CP 9114 WINNIPEG MB 02/25 15:46 040824 Arrival In Transit
CP 9114 IGNACE ON 02/29 20:16 040827 Arrival In Transit
CP 9114 THUNDERB ON 03/01 00:26 040827 Arrival In Transit
CP 9114 FRANZ ON 03/02 07:32 030029 Departure in Transit
CP 9114 TORONTO Y ON 03/04 12:10 092304 Arrival In Transit
CP 9114 WINDSOR ON 03/05 11:15 092304 Arrival at Destn.
CP 9114 LONDON ON 03/06 05:49 292206 Arrival In Transit
CP 9114 TORONTO Y ON 03/06 20:05 292206 Arrival at Destn.


Looks like BNSF 4920 has made it to Chicago now.

CB

=====
________________________________________________________________________
Christian Base
Richmond Hill ON Canada
MP 18.7, CN Bala Sub
Owner:
__________________________________________________
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The FB M C liner was moved to Calgary CP yard!
THe F7B I saw one day at the head end of a train near vancouver, looked
great with the new power! right in behind. Was on its way being
transfered to WCRA It is now at the West Coast Railway Heritage park
and due to be restored to 1950's colors and put into running order.
Photos of it here and F A unit that was just done will make a good
looking pair when done!



Does anybody have any information on the whereabouts of the old CP
unit 4104, a Fairbanks Morse "C" Liner passenger engine? It possibly
was retired in the late 60's, perhaps in Calgary or in the Kootenays
somewhere.

A group of us are looking to find out if it was saved, and where.

Thanks for any help,

TAPMAN

The F7B, and
the H-16-44 weren't there either. Does anyone know where they may be at?

Bill:

According to CANADIAN PACIFIC DIESEL LOCOMOTIVES by Dean and Hanna, page
156, unit 8606 was scrapped at Ogden in July 1972.

Joe Smuin

Bill Miller wrote:

Does anybody have figures on the range per tank of fuel of some of the
diesels currently used on CP? How about an SD40-2 as compared to an AC4400
and an SD90MAC? It would be interesting to know the cost per mile in
operating these units considering the cost of fuel today.
Thanks for any figures anybody can supply.

David.
mailto:ddespot@...
ICQ# 58586990