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From: "cprdb" <cprdb@...>

REFERENCE: This topic, while perhaps about a CPR publication, is outside

I was hoping this discussion would be allowed to continue <SNIP>

From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jean-Fran=E7ois?= Turcotte <duracell@...>

Hello

Are these grain trains to Montr???al and Qu???bec running on Ottawa Valley Rwy
between Sudbury and Smith Falls, or are they running via Toronto and
Belleville?

JF

At Smiths Falls, Ont this morning March 8 2000 between 5:00am to 7:00am

...

#326-04 06:44am Departure CP 9017, 5871, 5770, soo6012 (Eastbound

Montreal)

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-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Smuin [SMTP:kvrailway@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2000 10:03 PM
To: C-P-R@...
Subject: Re: [C-P-R] CP Tracks - Copyright, Plagiarism and Recourse

From: Joe Smuin <kvrailway@...>

Hello all:

Roger and Patrick have touched upon a problem that I've run into myself.
About 2 years ago, I was more than a little surprised to walk into the
model railway display at the S.S. Sicamous in Penticton and find a
photocopy of an article I wrote for Canadian Railway Modeller, plastered
to the edge of the layout. There was (and the last time I looked) no
credit for either myself or CRM. I requested the club to credit myself
and CRM for the article and was promised that would be done. Guess
what?! When I looked last fall, the article was still there and no
credits. I don't know what Morgan Turney's thoughts are about the
matter, but when I recently discovered this credit had not been
forthcoming, I too found myself wondering what to do.

I have too many other things on my plate right now to pursue a
relatively small matter a long way from home, but I sure understand how
Roger feels. One hell of a lot of time, trouble AND money has gone into
rounding up the material that we use in our publications. I'm glad that
people saw my article worthy enough to display, but it seems to me that
at very least, common courtesy would dictate that myself or CRM was
approached first and then given due credit. The same goes for CP Tracks
with Roger.

I don't know about Roger's future course, but at some point the fellows
in Penticton are going to hear more about my matter. It is not a
pleasant feeling to be so completely disassociated from a personal
labour of love.

Joe Smuin
Port Coquitlam

plawson@... wrote:

From: plawson@...

Rodger Burrows,

I have used both of your Railway Milepost books extensively - to the
point where they are held together with miles of tape - however they
are highly valued by me.

Some time ago, when Walley Major was editor of CP Tracks I was sent an
advance issue of CP Tracks with an article of mine that had been
copied word for word from RMC. I immediately informed him that he
must get permission before copying and distributing copyrighted
material! Fortunately I was able to stop the issue from going to
press.
It appears the lesson wasn't learned then?

What to do?

For a start, get CP Tracks to realize the legal trouble they are in.
Shame on CP Tracks!

Regards,

Patrick Lawson, MMR
Contributing Editor, Model Railroading Magazine.

---------------------------

From: "Roger Burrows" <rgburrow@...>


Last week, I posted the following to the Observation Car newsgroup.

ObsCar

is a moderated discussion forum dedicated to commentary, debate and
criticism of railroad art and literature. Members include railroad

magazine

editors, and well-known writers and photographers. My posting

prompted

considerable comment, both within the group and directly to me. All

of the

comment so far has been complementary to me, my books, and to the way

I have

handled things so far.

So, CPR and CP SIG list members, I would like to read your opinion.

If,

after reviewing the following, you have any comments or suggestions

about

dealing with this situation, please post a response and/or contact me
directly.

I am also open to a direct response from CP Tracks' "publication

team" and

from CP Sig's "executive team", before I take the next steps in

resolving

this matter.

Thanks

Roger Burrows,
North Vancouver, BC
e-mail: rgburrow@...
fax: (604) 985-7221
phone: (604) 985-0035


(My posting to Observation Car was as follows:)

I hope this is considered "on topic" for Observation Car, and that I

can get

some constructive comment from some members who are in the publishing
industry.

Back in the 1980's I produced two books entitled "Railway Mileposts:

British

Columbia". Perhaps some of you are familiar with them. I know that

both

Dale and Brian at CTC Board, Bruce Kelly when at R&R, and the

listmeister

have all used my Mileposts books and have commented favorably.

Volume I

covered the CPR mainline route and Volume II described the "Southern
Routes", including CPR's Crowsnest - Kettle Valley Route and the

Great

Northern routes in southern B.C. Both relied heavily on scale maps

in

describing the rail routes.

In September 1998, I picked-up a copy of "CP Tracks", a publication

of CPR

SIG which is a special interest group of the NMRA. I was surprised

to see

an article that "borrowed" heavily on one of my books. Hell, it

copied some

of my maps and one of my photos, without permission.

So, I e-mailed Dave Love (CP SIG's president[?]) and Glen Moffat (CP

Tracks

editor), sending the following letter which I thought was quite

reasonable

under the circumstances. It read:

"I was surprised recently when I picked up a copy of the "Summer

1998" issue

of "CP Tracks".

"Peter Abel's "Kettle Valley Memoirs" includes several maps, data,

and a

photograph, all taken I believe, directly from my book "Railway

Mileposts:

British Columbia, volume II, the Southern Routes", copyright 1984.
Although the photograph was credited to me, the data and maps (which

were

only slightly modified from those that I made for the book) were not.

"I don't recall giving Mr. Abel (or others) permission for this use.

"I often grant permission for such use by non-profit organizations on

the

condition that proper credit is given, and that I receive a copy of

each

publication. For example, the Nelson-area rails-to-trails group

recently

included materials from one of my books in their brochure on that

basis.

"I don't want to appear to be to be too much of a curmudgeon about

this, and

I don't want to discourage the valuable efforts of CP SIG, but I

believe

that proper credit (and an explanation) is due. BTW, volume II of

"Railway

Mileposts: British Columbia" remains in print."

(signed) Roger Burrows, North Vancouver, BC


I had a phone call in response to my e-mail, including a verbal

apology and

a promise to look into things. I heard nothing more, no explanation,

no

request for permission, nothing. Neither verbally nor on paper.

So, it was with some amazement recently that I found two more issues

of CP

Tracks (Summer and Fall 1999) at my local hobby shop, both of which

included

maps copied directly from my books. Each recent issue included two

or more

of my maps, reproduced up to full page size, none of which was

credited to

me (the copyright holder) or to Railway Milepost Books. (There is

however a

short list of "references" in the article which includes the title of

my

book along with several other titles.) A list of back issues inside

the

back cover of CP Tracks indicates that the Fall 1999 issue is the

fifth

issue to include Kettle Valley Memoirs, presumeably all with my maps

copied

from my books.

Now don't get me wrong, I enjoyed producing Railway Mileposts:

British

Columbia. But I did not commit my time and invest considerable sums

of

money for questionable return, only to have someone simply copy a

valuable

part of my work without permission and without credit. Drawing the

maps was

probably the most tedious and time-consuming part of the project.

They were

drawn by me by hand in ink on mylar. Not only that, the book from

which

they were copied remains in print, that is, we have copies to sell.

CP Tracks says in its recent issues "This publication and its

contents may

be copied for non-commercial use only - the author, CP Tracks and CPR

SIG

must be credited". So, not only have they copied my material without
permission or credit, but they are permitting unlimited

non-commercial use

of my material with their credit. Nice. CP SIG apparently has about

500

members, and sells additonal copies of CP Tracks for $5.00 each (I

don't

know the total publication numbers).


So, what do I do???

Some things that spring to mind include some or all of the following:

1. Take legal action (after all, my wife works for a law firm)

2. Demand restitution (based on what?)

3. Demand a full printed explanation and apology

4. Require them to purchase unsold books at list price

5. Demand free advertising equivalent to the column-inches of my

maps

copied

6. Other suggestions?


So, Observation Car members, if you have read this far, thanks for

your

perserverence. If you have any suggestions about dealing with this
situation, please post a response to ObsCar, and/or contact me

directly.

Thanks

Roger Burrows,
North Vancouver, BC
e-mail: rgburrow@...
fax: (604) 985-7221
phone: (604) 985-0035

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