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Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 14:40:22 -0500
Subject: [dandh] Fw: SURFACE TRANSPORTATION BOARD FINDS NO BASIS ON WHICH

From: "Danny Boehr" <dannyb2@...>


----- Original Message -----
From: <Administrator@...>
To: <Dannyb2@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 12:05 PM
Subject: SURFACE TRANSPORTATION BOARD FINDS NO BASIS ON WHICH TO REVISIT
10-YEAR-OLD DECISION IN ORDER TO BLOCK TRANSFER OF TRAIN DISPATCHING
FUNCTION TO MONTREAL

* * * * * * * * * *
Originally posted by CN=News Clips/O=STB
* * * * * * * * * *


Surface Transportation Board (Board) Chairman Linda J. Morgan announced
that the Board has today issued a decision finding that it is unable,

based

on the record before it, to reopen a proceeding decided 10 years ago
authorizing the Canadian Pacific Railway Company (CP) to acquire the

assets

of the bankrupt Delaware and Hudson Railway Company (D&H).



In December 1998, the Board issued a decision granting the request of the
American Train Dispatchers Department of the International Brotherhood of
Locomotive Engineers (ATDD) that CP be blocked from transferring train
dispatching functions to Montreal, Canada. That decision, which arose in
the context of review of an arbitrator's ruling concerning employee
protection issues associated with the CP/D&H transaction, was based on
safety concerns that had been voiced by officials of the Federal Railroad
Administration (FRA), an agency within the Department of Transportation
(DOT), in letters written to the private parties. In December 1999,
however, the Board's decision was vacated by the United States Court of
Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. The court found that the

FRA

letters, which pointed out that Canadian hours of service laws are
different from those in the United States, and that Canadian workers are
not subject to random drug testing, did not provide a basis for

overturning

the arbitrator's ruling allowing the proposed transfer of dispatching
functions to Canada.



After the D.C. Circuit's action, ATDD asked the Board to issue a new
decision that would again block the transfer of dispatching functions to
Montreal, and this time one that would reopen the underlying CP/C&H
proceeding. ATDD's request was based on the same FRA letters on which the
Board had relied in first enjoining the dispatching transfer in the
decision which the reviewing court vacated. DOT also filed a formal
pleading at the Board supporting ATDD's request. Its pleading, however,
simply reiterated the concerns expressed earlier by FRA, and indicated

that

FRA intended to begin a rulemaking proceeding in the near future to
consider the issue. The Board found that it could not issue an order
blocking the transfer. In its decision, the Board stated:



"[W]e give great weight to the views of the [FRA, the] Federal body with
expertise in rail safety. In its pleading, DOT hypothesizes as to several
potential safety issues but concedes that it does "not at this juncture
know whether the movement of dispatching operations for [domestic] rail
lines to locations outside the United States should be allowed, allowed
subject to conditions, or prohibited." DOT has not suggested when FRA
would conclude its rulemaking and be prepared to provide its views on
whether the potential safety concerns that it has identified necessitate
any remedial action. Given DOT's own uncertainty as to whether corrective
action is required, it would be premature for us to reopen the underlying
acquisition proceeding to impose a condition foreclosing CP's right to
transfer the dispatching function to Canada. Moreover, for us to

institute

an investigation at this time would be needlessly duplicative of FRA's
efforts. When FRA has better formulated its position regarding the
magnitude of any safety problem that might be identified and what
conditions, if any, might be appropriate regarding Canadian-based
dispatching, we will be better able to assess whether or not it would be
appropriate to reopen this proceeding to consider any request by FRA for a
specific condition. If there are any urgent safety problems in the
meantime, FRA, which . . . is the agency principally responsible for rail
safety, can exercise its own emergency powers."



The Board's decision was issued on March 2, 2000, in Canadian Pacific
Limited, Et Al. --Purchase and Trackage Rights--Delaware & Hudson Railway
Company, STB Finance Docket No. 31700.



###

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From: "Rainer Auer" <auerr@...>

As per Bill's updates on the travels of the four C40-8 units, it seems
unclear as to the purpose of these independent assignments. When the tests
were announced, I thought (aside from reducing the age of the fleet) that
the CPR was looking at potential unit reductions on certain trains, given
the horsepower difference. Are they merely testing compatibility and
reliability with SD40s at this stage?

From: Phil Mason <pmason@...>
To: C-P-R@...
Subject: [C-P-R] GCRC Moves Mountains
Date: March 3, 2000 7:30 PM

From: "Phil Mason" <pmason@...>

Recently, I picked up the Rocky Mountaineer 2000 tour catalogue.

The cover features train 102 (eastbound Kamloops-Calgary tour
train) crossing Stoney Creek bridge, as photogaphed from the
northeast side.

This is a familiar Nicolas Morant angle which I have scrambled
up to and taken photos myself.

This publicity shot features a snow covered peak where no such
peak exists ! . Oh , the wonders of digital enhancement.

All of a sudden, the Beaver Valley has acquired a new headwall.

In the brochure, you are invited to visit on the web at ;

www.rockymountaineer.com and the web page includes "train talk"
where you can ask train questions of an expert. I plan to ask him
the name of the magnificent peak in the background of the cover
picture on the 2000 tour brochure.

Phil Mason
Revelstoke B.C.

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C-P-R "Canadian Pacific Railway"

I know this is not CN but railway preservation concerns us all. Maybe
somebody in the can help out, in preventing this engine being
stuffed and mounted 50 years after steam.

John Spring
TH&B Railway Historical Society
Chairman
john.spring@...

----------

From: J & L Spring <john.spring@...>
To: TH&B Mailing List <thblist@...>
Subject: engine 40
Date: Friday, March 03, 2000 10:12 PM

Tonight I received some very disturbing news that at this very moment the
ex TH&B #40 0-6-0 steam locomotive switcher sits on a trailer in Lindsay
Ontario in preparation to move it to an outside park site. For those of

you

who are not aware of the history of this locomotive. This locomotive was
originally built for the TH&B railway in 1912 as TH&B #42. In 1947 this
same locomotive was re numbered to #40 by the TH&B railway. #40 lasted on
the railway along with 102 until 1959 when 102 was scarped and #40 was

sold

to Stelco. Stelco kept this locomotive in operating condition until 1969,
when it was donated to the Museum of Science & Tec. in Ottawa in

operating

condition. The engine had be moved to an inside display at the Museum

for

a number of years, until downsizing at the museum made the engine

surplus.

The engine was then moved to Lindsay, Ontario and kept in inside storage
until this week. The locomotive up to this point has been well cared for
and possibly could be restored to operation condition.
I can not believe that in the year 2000 a one of a kind piece that has no
historic link to the Lindsay area is going to be put outside for the
elements & the vandals to destroy as has happened to so many park
locomotives all over Canada & the US. The locomotive has not had the
lagging removed from under it's jacketing and the many of the important
artifacts and hardware remain in place on the locomotive for the souvenir
hunter and scrap dealer to steal. I find this all that much more

disturbing

when museums such as the Steam & Tec Museum in Hamilton and the

Smithville

Railway Station have both express an interest in properly preserving this
locomotive. John Vincent is attempting to contact somebody & offer to
properly prepare the locomotive for out side display which can only slow
the eventual distruction of this historic locomotive. If any body can

shed

more light on this or has any possible contacts to prevent the further
distruction of the historic Hamilton based locomotive. Please let us

know.

John Spring
TH&B Railway Historical Society
Chairman
john.spring@...

Some knob writes to a newsgroup:
Are they the RED, White and Blue-green light at the top of the engine
faceplate?
If they are, I thought they were there for showing seniority levels.

Response:
Yes. The engineer with the most seniority gets to show green lights.
The next oldest gets to show white lights.
All others have to keep the lights extinguished except for the youngest
engineer who must display red lights and take the siding for everybody
else.

From: C-P-R@...
Reply-To: C-P-R@...
To: C-P-R@...
Subject: [C-P-R] Digest Number 299
Date: 3 Mar 2000 12:44:20 -0000

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There are 15 messages in this issue.

Topics in today's digest:

1. Identification of CPR sign?
From: burridge@...
2. Re: Caboose Markers
From: "Thomas Sajnovic" <mile262@...>
3. Lots of power at the Falls this morning
From: lanthlu@...
4. STLH Cartier Sub Lineups
From: "W. Regaudie" <tec_64@...>
5. Additions to CPR Modeling website
From: "Greg Williams" <williams@...>
6. In Cab Signals Question
From: "Jason Monk" <jasonmonk@...>
7. canada southern
From: ddavies@...
8. Re: Caboose Markers
From: "Gary W.Murray" <gary.murray@...>
9. Re: Caboose Markers
From: burridge@...
10. Galt Sub 03/01/00
From: Chris Tapanila <ctapanil@...>
11. Re: STLH Cartier Sub Lineups
From: "Mike Cleary" <mcleary@...>
12. UP C40-8 status
From: Bill Miller <bmiller@...>
13. Re: STLH Cartier Sub Lineups
From: "W. Regaudie" <tec_64@...>
14. RE: Digest Number 298
From: "Erik" <fordprefect42@...>
15. Re: STLH Cartier Sub Lineups
From: "Brian D. Switzer" <herkamur@...>


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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 05:27:13 -0500 (EST)
From: burridge@...
Subject: Identification of CPR sign?

Can anyone provide information on this 'sign' at

?
Supposedly made of porcelain. The raised outer part is a frame mounted
around the original piece.
Origin, usage, ...?

TKU

????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Gerry Burridge - PO Box 152 - Pte.Claire-Dorval, Que. - H9R 4N9 - CANADA
<< Be brave. Stay calm. Wait for the signs >>
mailto: burridge@...

=============================================================



_______________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 08:02:47 EST
From: "Thomas Sajnovic" <mile262@...>
Subject: Re: Caboose Markers

Hi James,
As I recall, there would be on the marker light, two or three red lenses
and
one green lens. If I can recall clearly, when a train enters a siding and
waits for the other train tto clear the mainline, and the switch is thrown
for the mainline, the marker lights would be displayed in such a way that
the red lenses would face to the rear of the caboose and to the side, the
green lens would face the front of the train, and thus the towards the
approaching train, signifying that the switch is thrown and he is clear to
proceed. Anyone else have another senario in mind? Would like to hear the
other uses.

Thomas Sajnovic
MILE 262

Hello all,


I'm looking for some information regarding cabooses and marker lights

here

in Canada, specifically, what do the red and green lights that can be
displayed to the rear of the train signify, and what colour flags could

be

flown from the van (and why?).

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at



_______________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 08:56:42 -0800
From: lanthlu@...
Subject: Lots of power at the Falls this morning

A lot of CP units going back west on 2 trains with 8 locomotives each at
Smiths Falls, Ont. this morning. I believe they need more power out west
for grains loads to Quebec city.

At Smiths Falls, Ont this morning March 2nd, 2000

#307-25 * 02:58am Departure (Westbound - Chalk River Sub.)
#928-01 04:25am Departure (Eastbound to Montreal)
#923-02 04:39am Departure (Westbound - Belleville Sub.)
#481-02 05:33am Departure (Westbound - Chalk River Sub)
#482-27 05:41am Departure (Eastbound to Montreal)
#471-02 06:04am Departure (Westbound - Chalk River Sub.)
#739-02 06:28am Departure (Westbound - Belleville Sub.)
#509-01 06:39am Departure (Westbound - Belleville Sub.)
#906-01 07:23am Arrival (Eastbound to Montreal)
#2-481-02 ** 08:08am Arrival (Westbound - Chalk River Sub.)
#432-01 08:24am Departure (Eastbound to Montreal)

* CP #307-25 had 8 locomotives 6074,6013,5949,5868,5758,5722,5691,5496
** CP #2-481-02 had 8 locomotives
6015,5973,5956,5904,5876,5865,5803,soo763

Luc Lanthier
Gatineau, Qc.


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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 09:02:49 -0500
From: "W. Regaudie" <tec_64@...>
Subject: STLH Cartier Sub Lineups

Howdy folks!,

The StLH Cartier sub lineups are back at their usual place at Mile 77.

Select Daily Train Status Report in the menu.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Wayne Regaudie
Sudbury, Ontario Canada
mailto:regaudie@...

St. Lawrence & Hudson Railway
Mile 77, Cartier Subdivision

Mile 77 Website:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -



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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 11:30:36 -0400
From: "Greg Williams" <williams@...>
Subject: Additions to CPR Modeling website

I have made some additions to my website: www.trainweb.org/cprmodeling
that I think will benefit all visitors.

NEW!!! Please visit the gallery to see the latest additions. Pictures by
Ian
Garton of the Royal Hudson in British Columbia, the restoration of CPR 2816
and a collection of articles from Canadian Pacific's Spanner magazine.

NEW!!! Please check out the resources page for new links, better
organization and an all Canadian all Rail search engine!

NEW!!! If you are into railroad E-Passes please visit the E-PASS page. And
if you don't collect E-Passes come and take a ride on some fine web
railroads!

NEW!!! Additions to the projects page. Read and see the efforts of Gavin
Rees

Be on the lookout for more additions next month!!!
--
Greg Williams
www.trainweb.org/cprmodeling



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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 01:59:28 EST
From: "Jason Monk" <jasonmonk@...>
Subject: In Cab Signals Question

Hello all,

I know that this system is becoming very commonly used in the US. I am
not sure if it has been in Canada. But either way I would like to know,
that
if a territory has "In-Cab Signals", are signals still used on the ground.
Also what equipment is there needed on the ground for sending the
information to the cab of the locomotive.
My reason for asking is I am modeling an imaginary rail corridor, and
am
at the point where I should add signals, however I would rather spend the
money on locomotives, rolling stock and scenery. Plus electrical work
bothers me, except for installing DCC decoders.. :) Grin!

Thanks,
Jason

PS Sorry for crossposting however it does fit with both CN and CP lists,
and
I model both roads.

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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 16:21:44 -0000
From: ddavies@...
Subject: canada southern

Any more news of the Canada Southern sale yet?? It would not be in
CN's interest to sell it to CP. I'd say it will never happen. Besides
the existing track would need a lot of work. Sadly it looks like
another Trans Canada Trail around the corner. We all would love to
see trains roll by Waterford Sta. again.




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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 12:59:16 -0500
From: "Gary W.Murray" <gary.murray@...>
Subject: Re: Caboose Markers

"J. Gamble" wrote:

From: "J. Gamble" <trvln_man@...>

Hello all,

I'm looking for some information regarding cabooses and marker lights
here
in Canada, specifically, what do the red and green lights that can be
displayed to the rear of the train signify, and what colour flags
could be
flown from the van (and why?).

Here's the scoop... I'll be working for a few weeks living in a
caboose, and
I'd like to know what signals would properly be displayed in the days
before
electronic tail-end devices. Our caboose is LNAL 076 (nee CP 434547),
and
today I replaced the ditch lights, marker lights, etc and made sure we
had
clean windows before heading off to the USA.

Anyways, any help would be appreciated.

Regards,
J.

----------------------------
James Gamble, the travellin' man
ICQ# 36957838
Riding the rails with Siemens-Westinghouse, February-July 2000
Trackside at: Paris Jct, CN Dundas Sub (mile 30.9)

"An accident's sometimes the only way to worm our way back to bad
decisions." -- Gord Downie

______________________________________________________
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
C-P-R "Canadian Pacific Railway"

James,

The caboose markers had one red lens, and all the others were green.
When a train or any part of the train was occupying the mainline, the
markers displayed red to the rear. When a train was clear of the
mainline to be passed by another train, the markers could be swiveled to
display green to the rear.

If a following train observed green markers on a train ahead, they could
breath easy. If they were approaching a train displaying red markers,
that was another story.

Markers also indicated the rear of a train. If you were meeting a train
on single track, and the tail end went by without markers, you couldn't
proceed because the train wasn't complete. This was very important,
especially in areas with heavy grades. Sometimes the train passing only
had half his train and was doubling the hill. If you proceeded without
seeing his markers, you could run into the second half of his train.

The only time flags were used was if you couldn't display markers for
some reason. A red flag or red light also indicated the rear of a train.
This was quite common when, for whatever reason, you were handling cars
behind the caboose. Freight cars had no brackets for hanging markers. In
that case the markers had to be taken down from the caboose and a red
flag by day, or a red light by night had to be displayed on the last
car.

Gary


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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 14:53:26 -0500 (EST)
From: burridge@...
Subject: Re: Caboose Markers

From: "Thomas Sajnovic" <mile262@...>

Hi James,

From UCOR(1962):
19. MARKERS
The following signals will be displayed to the rear of every tarin to
indicate the rear of the train:
(1) by day, markers not lighted.
(2) by night:
On single track and when running with the current of traffic on 2 tracks,
markers lighted displaying red to the rear.
On 2 tracks, when standing or running against the current of traffic,
markers lighted displaying red to the rear on the outside and green to the
rear between tracks.
...
When a train is clear of the main track to be passed by another train,
lighted markers will display green to the rear.
...
EXCEPTION: The requirement that markers display green to the rear when
clear
of main track does not apply in CTC.

19A. A train not equipped to display markers as prescibed by Rule 19 will
display a red flag by day and a red light by night to indicate the rear.
The
red light will be replaced by a white light when train is clear of main
track.

----
2 red and 2 green l;enses in lamps shoulde the case.

????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Gerry Burridge - PO Box 152 - Pte.Claire-Dorval, Que. - H9R 4N9 - CANADA
<< Be brave. Stay calm. Wait for the signs >>
mailto: burridge@...

=============================================================



_______________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 18:46:33 -0500
From: Chris Tapanila <ctapanil@...>
Subject: Galt Sub 03/01/00

On my day off, I decide to leave the GTA to see some trains...

CP Campbellville

0633 GO 540 10 cars eastbound

0645 CP 5550 (SD40)
CP ???? 71 cars eastbound containers

0655 GO 552 10 cars eastbound

0718 GO 521 10 cars eastbound

0738 GO 529 10 cars eastbound

0748 CP 5997 (SD40-2)
CP 5712 (SD40-2) 31 cars eastbound coils

0807 CP 3032 (GP38-2)
CP 8226 (GP9u) 20 cars eastbound autoframes on flats

0839 CP 5642 (SD40-2)
CP ???? (they go fast!)
55 cars eastbound containers

0845 leave for breaky in Galt

CP Galt

1016 arrive in time to watch this next one switching in the yard...

1025 CP 5603 (SD40-2)
StL&H 5614 (SD40-2) -left side louvre door open
41 cars westbound loaded autoracks

1230 no trains for 2 hours, leave for Bayview to watch other RR!

Chris Tapanila
ctapanil@...
North York, Ontario


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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 18:03:35 -0600
From: "Mike Cleary" <mcleary@...>
Subject: Re: STLH Cartier Sub Lineups

Wayne,

Great to have the lineups back!

Looks like CP axed a couple more westbounds during the last couple of
months, no more 407 or 431?

Am looking forward to the rest of your site getting back up to speed, I
check it out every day.

Mike Cleary
Woodbury, Minnesota

-----Original Message-----
From: W. Regaudie <tec_64@...>
To: C-P-R List <C-P-R@...>
Date: Thursday, March 02, 2000 8:04 AM
Subject: [C-P-R] STLH Cartier Sub Lineups

From: "W. Regaudie" <tec_64@...>

Howdy folks!,

The StLH Cartier sub lineups are back at their usual place at Mile 77.

Select Daily Train Status Report in the menu.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Wayne Regaudie
Sudbury, Ontario Canada
mailto:regaudie@...

St. Lawrence & Hudson Railway
Mile 77, Cartier Subdivision

Mile 77 Website:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


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Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW!

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_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

Message: 12
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 19:14:03 -0500
From: Bill Miller <bmiller@...>
Subject: UP C40-8 status

EQUIPMENT ,LOCATION ,PR, , , ,L,TRAIN&#92;,DESTINATN,PR,FLAT CAR ,
INITNUMBER ,CITY ,ST,MM/DD,HH:MM,Z,E,JUNCT ,CITY

,ST,INITNUMBER,STATUS

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
UP 009144 ,ST PAUL ,MN,02/29,08:24,C,L,057026, , ,

,Arrival at Destn.

UP 009151 ,MOOSE JAW,SK,03/02,08:54,C,L,061527, , ,

,Arrival at Destn.

UP 009162 ,BROADVIEW,SK,03/02,07:47,C,L,030829, , ,

,Departure in Transit

UP 009215 ,SWIFT CUR,SK,03/02,07:32,C,L,057529, , ,

,Departure in Transit

Bill



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Message: 13
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 22:17:17 -0500
From: "W. Regaudie" <tec_64@...>
Subject: Re: STLH Cartier Sub Lineups

Hiya Mike!,

Thanks. I working on it (the site).

Yes, some trains have been dropped and added. Gonna have to get a new list
of train from the Trackside Guide (or get someone to post them).

Stay safe!

Wayne



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Message: 14
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 21:39:43 -0700
From: "Erik" <fordprefect42@...>
Subject: RE: Digest Number 298

-----Original Message-----
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 23:05:25 EST
From: "J. Gamble" <trvln_man@...>

I'm looking for some information regarding cabooses and marker
lights here
in Canada, specifically, what do the red and green lights that can be
displayed to the rear of the train signify, and what colour
flags could be
flown from the van (and why?).

UCOR, revision of 1962, Rule 19:
Unlit marker lamps by day.
By night or when equipped with built-in markers, marker lights lit to
display:
Red on single track, with current of traffic in double track, or in more
than two track territory.
On double track when standing or running against the current of traffic,
red on the outside and green between tracks.
When clear of the track to be passed by another train, green to the rear
(except in CTC).

If unable to display markers, a red flag at the rear by day, and a red
light at night (white light when clear of the main to be passed by another
train).

Marker lamps were constructed with one red lens so that they always
displayed green to the front and sides and red or green to the rear
depending how the lamp was turned.



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Message: 15
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 00:25:28 -0400
From: "Brian D. Switzer" <herkamur@...>
Subject: Re: STLH Cartier Sub Lineups

Held within the mighty vaults of Herkamur, a scribe with name of Mike
Cleary
didst pen a scroll with subject of "Re: [C-P-R] STLH Cartier Sub Lineups".

Looks like CP axed a couple more westbounds during the last couple of
months, no more 407 or 431?

I'm not sure about 431, but 407 surely still runs. It's route is a bit
different now though. 407 begins in Windsor, Ontario, heads east along the
Galt sub to Lambton yard in Toronto and then heads north on the Mactier
sub. You probably don't see it because the times have changed. It heads
up the Mactier usually in late afternoon now.

--
Truthful: Dumb and illiterate.

/*
Brian D. Switzer <herkamur@...>
Rail Photography Web Site ->
*/



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