-¡°Also, don't blame a depressed or reluctant kid for bringing down the mood.¡±-
This is super important! I have 2 teens that became very sick as younger teens which caused depression in both. Even to this day, years later, they both feel guilt for possibly holding us back from doing things because they physically and mentally couldn¡¯t. We went out of our way to make sure they knew we didn¡¯t feel that way and they still felt it.
Sadie Bugni
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 10, 2022, at 7:04 PM, Sandra Dodd <aelflaed@...> wrote:
Also, don't blame a depressed or reluctant kid for bringing down the mood.
|
Sadie Bugni, this is sweet:
?
"Depression is tough. Keep being his safe landing? ?"
Thanks to all who have brought ideas, and I hope others will, too.? There were lots of good ones.
A few thoughts came to me that were suggested by comments above, or that reminded me somehow:
Hearing happy sounds outside can be good.? If the other kids are happy, and the mom is singing or humming or joking or laughing, and if I were in a dark room brooding, it would make me feel better.? ?Don't think that just because the person doesn't pop out and join in the revelry that it wasn't brightening his periphery.
Also, though this topic isn't as commonly "out there" as it used to be, for the mom:? Maybe read up on or review the symptoms of and problems with co-dependency.? If you have any ideas that you shouldn't be happy unless your oldest child there is also happy, step out of that little dark cloud!? The other kids need you.
Also, don't blame a depressed or reluctant kid for bringing down the mood.? Trees cast shade, but they're easy to live under, with and around. :-)? Sometimes the shade is wonderful.??
?
The big dark covid cloud is doing physical and psychic damage, but just like with anything else, the choices I make in the moment don't change covid, but they change my husband's life, and mine, my cats' lives sometimes.? My grown kids' lives a bit, and my grandkids' lives some!? ??
Nobody can fix everything, but anyone make a moment better for someone (or a cat, maybe).
?
Sandra
|
On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 11:59 AM, Regan wrote:
These links have lots of wonderful insights:
Thanks, Debbie!??
To anyone who clicked one of those links and thought "this page is a mess," you go there during the time I rushed in to "narrow" them.
For years I spread my pages out, one or two columns wide, like a California-King-sized bed.? Vlad has given me the code charms to make them work well for people only using phones, but each page needs its own clean-up and photo stabilizing and blah blahdy blah blah.? ?
They should both be clean and useful now, and I'm glad Debbie thought of them and brought them.
?
Sandra
?
"These links have lots of wonderful insights: "
?
--
(If this doesn't look like Sandra Dodd's e-mail, it is one.? "AElflaed" is my medieval-studies/SCA name.)
|
I¡¯m not sure I¡¯m replying in the correct format, being on my phone, but I¡¯d like to share a few things that have helped us.
Exercise and outdoors are great and helpful, but when in a funk, they require effort and energy that may not be there. I¡¯ve actually been making conscious effort to do little things myself, the last week or so, because I can fall into a depression mindset. It always seems to be worse after sickness runs through our house.
I share that because your son may be able to get in front of it if he can start to recognize when it¡¯s worse. My daughter has started keeping a lose journal to help her figure out what makes hers worse, but more importantly, what makes it better.
A few things that have helped are things that require little or no real effort/participation. I know these may not all be helpful to a teen boy, but we have a large family, and there are things that have unexpectedly brought one person joy even though it was intended for someone else.
Favorite music, playing in the background is so simple.
Grabbing a drink, for me it¡¯s coffee, from Starbucks or soda from McDonalds.
Buy things to create your favorite drinks at home-bubble tea, coffees, shakes
Trying a new recipe (we eat, so might as well make it fun).
Sometimes we pick a country and try fun snacks from Amazon, drinks, recipes, crafts, etc from that country over a weekend. Don¡¯t expect him to participate in prep unless it¡¯s something he enjoys, but share with him.
Send cute or funny memes to each other.
Just *be* near him, without any expectations of interaction.
Open up the curtains to let as much natural light in as possible.
Grill out, even if it¡¯s chilly.
Favorite movies
Have fresh flowers in a vase
Happiness journal-verbal, mental, or written. Try to think of 2-3 things each day that made you happy.
Stretching. Not a big yoga session, but just stretching where you are.
Light scented candles throughout the house.
Hang up some different old pics on the fridge.
Drink water, with or without fruit added to give it a twist.
Having Fitbits have helped us to see progress in things like activity, water consumption, and sleep patterns even if minimal. Make sure to set the device to realistic goals though, or it can have the opposite effect.
Depression is tough. Keep being his safe landing ?
Warmly,
Sadie Bugni
|
I wish I had more to offer, but I ran this past my 18yo unschooled-till-recently daughter to get her take on it as she has had some mental health obstacles of her own. I think her words are potentially helpful so I¡¯ll share them here.
Her first and main thought was that if one perceives that the happiness of another person is depending on your own happiness, the pressure is huge and debilitating. She thinks that seeing the mum enjoying the other children and enjoying herself will be a relief to the eldest, not an insult. That the mum will do everyone a favour by keeping a light touch and enjoying life as much as possible.
But this came with the caveat that she is also paying attention and doing small sweet things without pressure. She said ¡®if he likes pink lady apples for example then get those ones and pop one on his bedside table, but don¡¯t ask him if he enjoyed it - just notice if he ate it¡¯
She also said it really helps if your environment is nice so for the mum to pop in and tidy up gently (with permission) and put stuff away or light ?candles while chatting lightly and not talking about what she¡¯s doing very much. Or maybe just popping in saying ¡®I miss hanging out with you sometimes, can I just watch my program/do my knitting/eat my lunch etc in your room?¡¯ might be nice.
And i know the poster was looking for more, for ideas to make it better, but my daughter was adamant that a mum can¡¯t fix the depression, just be a good partner and give it time, and quietly look out for people who might be in a better position to help. Though there might not be anyone who can do more than what you are already doing.
Belinda
|
All three of us (me, my husband, and our son) have lived with and through varying depression.? Our son's hasn't?been deep, but it was consistently present during the early part of his teens.? As a child, he always had very big expressions of emotion, whether that be sadness, frustration, or joy, so I did pay attention to his bout of melancholy, in case he needed extra help.? It did pass, thankfully.? He didn't need medication.? My husband said that he (himself) had some depression as a developing young man as well.?The way we approached it with our son was to consistently let him know that we were there, that we loved him very much, that we understood what he was feeling, and that we supported whatever he needed.? We didn't try to fix him.? We did, however, try to bring as much joy, peripherally, into our home as we could (while trying not to be a nuisance).? It was a little stressful for me, truthfully, but I tried to keep that to?myself.
?
Some things that seem to help us all...
For all three of us, with depression, distraction helps--finding things to keep us busy and/or keep our minds looking at something other than whatever is bringing us down.??For my husband, it's music.? He plays guitar and listens to music.? When he's down, he makes a point of listening to and playing lively, upbeat, energetic music.? Working on a new project helps my husband too.??For me, making things helps distract me from my feelings of melancholy.? I especially find patterns and repetition meditatively soothing so I look for things to make that have that component.? I also like watching shows.? I make sure not to watch shows that will?contribute to my feelings of sadness.? Comedies help.? Shows that I've seen and enjoyed before help too.? For our son it's small challenges like playing a new game or modding an existing game.??
?
Walking helps us all.? I like to run on the treadmill too.
?
Getting together with friends helps.? It has been harder with Covid, but we have managed to do things masked, outdoors, which has been nice.? Ethan also plays games online with a friend or two most evenings.??
?
In the afternoons right now, my son and husband like to eat lunch and watch video game tournaments together.? It's a routine they've established and it seems to bring a bright spot to their days.? I feel like despite the challenges of Covid, this will be something they will look back on fondly in the future.? Routines seem to help.? They give a reliable flow to the day, and we each seem to feel comforted by that--Ethan and Doug (my husband) more than myself.
?
Comfort food helps.??
?
Even though we live in California, we do spend a lot of time indoors.? A Vitamin D supplement seems to prove very helpful to ease depression (and anxiety, for me) too.
?
***But today I read on the radical unschooling FB group a quote (from a few weeks back, from Jo Isaac, to a mom who wrote in):? ¡°Is she happy?? Is she thriving?¡±? And I thought, THAT!? That¡¯s it.? No.? No, he¡¯s not.***
?
I've found that, for all of us, any pressure to be happy and thrive when we're feeling low doesn't help at all, whether it be internal pressure or pressure from outside.? In fact, sometimes it makes things worse.? What helps is knowing/remembering that it's okay to coast a bit when things are hard.? It's okay to not strive for more when our energy and motivation are barely enough to do the minimum.? Gentle encouragement, soft uplifting actions and kind, loving words seem to help.? Something light to look forward to seems to help too.? ?
?
What does your son enjoy?? It could be very simple--a favourite food, a certain kind of lighting, a colour (maybe you could paint a wall), a texture (soft pillows or blankets or socks), sounds.? Gently brings more of whatever he enjoys into his life.? Sit with him.? Play games with him if he'd enjoy that.? Watch videos with him.? Share food with him.? Try to stay calm and present.? Bring little wonders into the home, maybe.? Our son likes that still (he's 19 now).? Share with him stories/things about yourself.? Let him know he's not alone.
?
***There have been so many quotes in different places where I have this vague ¡°*that*¡ªwe don¡¯t have THAT,¡± or ¡°this isn¡¯t happening over here***? ?
?
I've found, personally, the surest way of getting myself into a depressed or anxious state is to start comparing myself to others.? When I'm feeling low, I actually stop looking at what others are doing, and focus more on what I can do in?the moment.? I actively look for the value in my own humble pursuits.? I'm very introverted.? I don't have big goals for myself.??I'm easily satisfied by simple pleasures and pursuits.? In a world that seems to place a high value on exuberance and accomplishment, sometimes I find I need to take some time to remember to appreciate these quiet things about myself, otherwise I start feeling less-than and a bit like a failure.
?
See what your son *is* doing.? Celebrate who your son is in every moment, even when it looks like not much is happening.? Quiet people have a lot to contribute.? Maybe you and/or he would enjoy the book "Quiet" by Susan Cain.? She has a nice TED talk.?
?
You might find Sandra's page on introverts useful too:
Karen James
|
Hi,
There is a bit of fretfulness coming through in the original post.
It will help to notice and let go of any tautness or negativity. When I do that, I¡¯m much more likely to be helpful to others than if I¡¯m agitated myself.
We can¡¯t ¡®make¡¯ it better for others, but we can help - starting with being well-centred and present ourselves. From there, we bring more openness, more warmth, creativity, more fun. We listen better, empathise better and understand better. It makes it easier for those around us to find their own peace and flow.
Sometimes, especially for teens, frustration or sorrow or other difficult emotions intensify in the absence of a really safe place for them to be seen and accepted. When parents provide a calm place of acceptance for kids, kids can find their emotions and circumstances much easier to accept and live with themselves.
My recommendation would be to live as calm and present as you can - let go of expectations, let go of getting caught up with fears, let go of thoughts of control - be your own calm, flowing self.
These links have lots of wonderful insights:
Debbie
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 7 Feb 2022, at 12:41 pm, Sandra Dodd <[email protected]> wrote:
(sent for anonymous posting)
I¡¯ve been reading¡ªa LOT¡ªat your site lately, with a heavy focus on happiness and peace. I¡¯m trying to keep my head up as my oldest (18) takes another tour through depression. There have been so many quotes in different places where I have this vague ¡°*that*¡ªwe don¡¯t have THAT,¡± or ¡°this isn¡¯t happening over here¡,¡± always in an ephemeral, can¡¯t quite nail it down kind of way. But today I read on the radical unschooling FB group a quote (from a few weeks back, from Jo Isaac, to a mom who wrote in): ¡°Is she happy? Is she thriving?¡± And I thought, THAT! That¡¯s it. No. No, he¡¯s not.
So if I can pose a question to the Always Learning group (honestly, I might have asked before¡..I know I¡¯ve sought answers in various places over the years; I don¡¯t THINK I¡¯ve asked here): How do you unschool a teen through depression? When so little lights them up and interests them; when there¡¯s so little they¡¯re passionate about? When I hear (repeatedly) how exercise will help, but I can¡¯t force him to exercise? (Or get outside in the sunshine¡ªanother example.)
We do still have a truly good relationship¡ªI¡¯m the soft spot for him to land in all this, and I¡¯m grateful that he¡¯s willing to open up to me and thankful I can be there for him through all the yuck. But I want to do more to help than simply be a steadying presence (even if that is a good thing to be). I want to help bring him back to enjoying life, if that¡¯s possible.
Brief answers to potential questions: yes, he¡¯s on meds; no, hasn¡¯t seen a counselor in awhile (tho he used to); and there are two younger siblings who are thriving (which I sometimes think makes things worse, as he watches them have so much fun in their days).
Any thoughts?
________________ end of quote; reminder that it's another mom, not my own question _______________________
|
I do not have teens but I am familiar with?depression. From an energetic perspective, depression is an overload of emotions in the heartspace that haven't been processed. Big relief and clearing can come when these unconscious places are more fully witnessed. You mentioned?that he wasn't in therapy currently?and I wonder if that might be revisited? A therapist who specializes in Internal?Family Systems if that is possible and/or resonates. Another hugely helpful tool if he is up for it is to journal. Tune into the body and journal from the places that are painful to talk about, completely uncensored.?
Warmly,?
Julia
On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 8:38 PM Sandra Dodd < aelflaed@...> wrote: I thought there was another reply to this.
Also, I was hoping lots of you had current ideas about the particular problems of teens during covid closures and lock-downs.? Hoping for a pile of ideas.
?
Here I am with no pile of ideas myself, but please, if you read this, and have ANY suggestions for the mom with the question, put them out here.
I've come across some writing by Caren Knox that involves depression, and levels, and layers, so I'm leaving a link.
It says sarcasm, and that's what brought the question up, but it's about positivity and mental health, and could by helpful.
There are some links on that page, too, to other ideas from other days, about depression and mental health (not just lack-of-mental-illness, but *health*).
?
I don't know how teens are surviving months turning to years of a lack of availability of lots of other people their age.? MAYBE it would help to let them know that it is very normal and natural for people of that age to want to be with others like themselves, and let them know that you wish things were otherwise, and safer, and more open.? ?
Anything about stages of human development might be interesting to at least point at, and name¡ªnot as "a topic," or a unit, but maybe having a list on the kitchen table or taped in the bathroom, or just out, lightly available for a while.? Younger kids might be interested, too.? (If they're not, don't push it.)
or if you want to look at some graphic layouts of all that,?
There are also Piaget's, which are more about cognition and awareness (maybe) than about interpersonals.? Same ideas, different angle, perhaps.
.
?
Sandra
?
|
I think it was mine, and somehow I sent it wrong.? When I saw this post come through I really hoped people would have replies, as my 14 year old has had what sounds like similar experiences.?
?
The only thought I have to share is sometimes medication changes can help. We've made adjustments to my daughter's depression and anxiety medications twice with better results each time.??
My daughter's mental health needs predate covid, but I see the isolation affecting my other kids.
Our area has very lax regulations, but we try to maintain the kids' friendships with video calls and texting but also by having different friends over to hang out on our back porch/back yard every couple of weeks.??
?
|
I thought there was another reply to this.
Also, I was hoping lots of you had current ideas about the particular problems of teens during covid closures and lock-downs.? Hoping for a pile of ideas.
?
Here I am with no pile of ideas myself, but please, if you read this, and have ANY suggestions for the mom with the question, put them out here.
I've come across some writing by Caren Knox that involves depression, and levels, and layers, so I'm leaving a link.
It says sarcasm, and that's what brought the question up, but it's about positivity and mental health, and could by helpful.
There are some links on that page, too, to other ideas from other days, about depression and mental health (not just lack-of-mental-illness, but *health*).
?
I don't know how teens are surviving months turning to years of a lack of availability of lots of other people their age.? MAYBE it would help to let them know that it is very normal and natural for people of that age to want to be with others like themselves, and let them know that you wish things were otherwise, and safer, and more open.? ?
Anything about stages of human development might be interesting to at least point at, and name¡ªnot as "a topic," or a unit, but maybe having a list on the kitchen table or taped in the bathroom, or just out, lightly available for a while.? Younger kids might be interested, too.? (If they're not, don't push it.)
or if you want to look at some graphic layouts of all that,?
There are also Piaget's, which are more about cognition and awareness (maybe) than about interpersonals.? Same ideas, different angle, perhaps.
.
?
Sandra
?
|
(sent for anonymous posting)
I¡¯ve been reading¡ªa LOT¡ªat your site lately, with a heavy focus on happiness and peace.? I¡¯m trying to keep my head up as my oldest (18) takes another tour through depression.? There have been so many quotes in different places where I have this vague ¡°*that*¡ªwe don¡¯t have THAT,¡± or ¡°this isn¡¯t happening over here¡,¡± always in an ephemeral, can¡¯t quite nail it down kind of way.? But today I read on the radical unschooling FB group a quote (from a few weeks back, from Jo Isaac, to a mom who wrote in):? ¡°Is she happy?? Is she thriving?¡±? And I thought, THAT!? That¡¯s it.? No.? No, he¡¯s not.
So if I can pose a question to the Always Learning group (honestly, I might have asked before¡..I know I¡¯ve sought answers in various places over the years; I don¡¯t THINK I¡¯ve asked here):? How do you unschool a teen through depression?? When so little lights them up and interests them; when there¡¯s so little they¡¯re passionate about?? When I hear (repeatedly) how exercise will help, but I can¡¯t force him to exercise?? (Or get outside in the sunshine¡ªanother example.)
We do still have a truly good relationship¡ªI¡¯m the soft spot for him to land in all this, and I¡¯m grateful that he¡¯s willing to open up to me and thankful I can be there for him through all the yuck.? But I want to do more to help than simply be a steadying presence (even if that is a good thing to be).? I want to help bring him back to enjoying life, if that¡¯s possible.
Brief answers to potential questions: yes, he¡¯s on meds; no, hasn¡¯t seen a counselor in awhile (tho he used to); and there are two younger siblings who are thriving (which I sometimes think makes things worse, as he watches them have so much fun in their days).
Any thoughts?
________________ end of quote; reminder that it's another mom, not my own question _______________________
|
New on my site??
?
?
Usually I try to save up three similar or related pages, but this one is long and important. In January 2022 I have added to the page called Parenting Peacefully, a list that Alex Arnott wrote. It's the fourth item or so. That page is long, solid, rich, and has a sound file you can hear there, or download and keep. New to the site: Fact/Fallacy/Opinion (from? The Big Book of Unschooling) New page, sound and pictures, about FOOD and unschooling
photo (a link) by Lydia Kolta
|
Reading, thinking, avoiding fear
A "greatest hits" moment. Me, my page on facebook, 2017. Five years later? Worse but there's still hope. :-)
____________________________________________________________________________________________
?
I wrote this in June 2016:
___________
Please, anyone, everyone, don¡¯t believe anything you¡¯ve only read once, especially in a forum like this, or on facebook. In all my life I¡¯ve never seen as big a flood of falsehood and nonsense as I¡¯ve seen in 2016 so far. The second worst was 2015. Next year should be worse.
BE CAREFUL what you get excited about or fearful of.
___________
The "forum like this" is Always Learning, a yahoogroups discussion I created in 2001, which is still active. It's one of the best discussions ever, and STILL no one should believe anything they read there just because they read it.
WHO wrote it, and why? Does it make any sense?
Thinking is fair. Thinking should be required, but who could require and enforce it? I wish only people who were good at thinking and had just recently DONE some would write in public, but wishes are just wishes.
If possible, require thinking of yourself.  Don't believe anything you've only read once. Don't write things that you can't or won't back up.
Not writing anything is vastly better than writing crap.
?
__________
and me, a comment there:
__________
P.S. That wasn't written about politics at all. It was about dental advice and strident parenting, but did I call it or what? 2017 has been worse already than any year before for the volume and speed of the sharing of falsehood and twisted confusion.
?
The original is here:??
?
?
The reminder to step back, and to think clearly, seemed worth bringing back.? ?It's a rough time, but there are still kids building memories, learning, needing a safe and secure unschooling home.
?
Protect yourself from twisted fright as well as you can, so you can keep your kids happy and learning in peace.
?
Sandra
|
Re: Radical Unschooler becoming an International Baccalaureate student
-=-We are currently learning French together on DuoLingo (his suggestion/invitation). -=-
?
This looked like the most fun part.? ?I know, life's not all about fun. :-)? ?But fun makes life better, and makes learning better.
If the question is about how an unschooler will do, going back to school, there have been many reports over the years, from unschoolers themselves (the kids), and their parents, and teachers¡ªvery often surprise at their reactions and responses to more formal learning environments.? Unschoolers who haven't had years of learning how to dodge and slough off can seem focused and eager (not just "seem," but BE eager), and attentive, compared to those who are already tired after ten or however-many years of school, school, school.
?
-=-My always unschooled 14 year old son is creating a plan for himself, for his future and I want to continue to support, encourage and assist him every way possible.-=-
I was really glad to see Belinda's post, and her direct experience with the program.? In the UK, "local college" is more like the U.S.'s last two years of high school, and more focused.? A bit like the first year or two of community college, for people who live where such a thing exists.? ?It's not university.
Consider that "to support, encourage and assist him every way possible" should probably be with his overall life, rather than with his very-specific test-score goal.? If he expects you to coach and manage him toward his own stated goals, or else YOU-the-mom will have failed in his "plan for himself," that might be a dangerous ledge to stand on.? Perhaps step back from the edge and keep making connections that aren't necessarily leading toward his narrowing plan.??
Live loosely, still.? Once he enters the flow of formal education, he's not unschooling anymore.? Others will approve or deny his interests and choices.? He could still use having a fallback, though, if he gets in a year or two and decides it's not what he expected, or still wants.
?
Even if he does get into it and like it and continue, he's only really making a choice to stay if he honestly HAS a choice, so don't "assist" him so hard that he feels trapped, or that you feel trapped, if that can be avoided.
?
Sandra
?
?
|
Re: Radical Unschooler becoming an International Baccalaureate student
Hello from the UK where the IB is increasingly becoming an option used by ¡®prestigious¡¯ schools. I thought I¡¯d offer a perspective from a UK unschooler familiar with the exam through friends and my own children¡¯s explorations.
My children both went to a local college where the IB is taught (International Baccalaureate). They were unschooled from about aged 8 but at about 15 got caught up in the crazy exam obsessed culture in the UK - my impression is that its a bit looser and freer in most other countries - and convinced themselves they needed to do GCSE¡¯s and A levels in order to be fully engaged in the world¡ but that¡¯s a post for another day!
The ¡®IB¡¯ students are the most academic, focused bunch in the college, and the IB is very demanding. More demanding and respected than A levels. It was unclear to me from the post whether you were planning on doing this course yourselves from home or whether you had access to some place that runs the course. If it was the former I would say it would be a really really massive undertaking for a young - mid teen and they would need a lot of support. But in my experience this comes with it¡¯s own problems.
When my unschooled 14 year olds wanted to do GCSE exams (fairly easy just masses of stuff to cover) I got caught up in the end goal. I wanted them to ¡¯succeed¡¯ as looking back I realise I didn¡¯t trust them to be OK if they failed the exams because they proclaimed that they were so important to them, they had all sorts of future plans pinned on them. (¡®My life is over if I don¡¯t get into college¡¯ etc). They were also really expensive to take and difficult to arrange and this was clouding my thinking. This investment of mine in the outcome of their exams was a huge rabbit hole we went down and was, I think, damaging to our relationship.
I say this only because their desire to do exams seemed initially to be totally fine to me as it was their idea and a project I was helping them with like any other. But it turned into a struggle in the end, and I am still not sure exactly what happened or how I would do it differently, just that there are a lot of ways we can, as unschoolers, get snagged by exam goals and unwittingly get invested in their journey. They have a stronger ¡®pull¡¯ than other goals a child may have if we are not sufficiently deschooled ourselves, or we have partners or grandparents who get excited that finally we are doing something ¡®proper¡¯.
Approach with love and curiosity - and caution!!!!
|
Re: Radical Unschooler becoming an International Baccalaureate student
*** IF this particular 14-year-old unschooler is only talking about university and dental school, then lots of people might be able to advise. ? ***
I actually had NO idea the program is so extensive myself! My understanding of his plan is this: he would like to enter the high school portion of the program. which - if I understand correctly- he is eligible to enter at 16.?
If we have our facts straight, successful completion earns both an International Baccalaureate diploma and college degree. I am not sure if that¡¯s Associate¡¯s or Bachelor¡¯s ?
If he scores 34 or higher, he could choose from almost any university in the US or abroad (including France).
His goal is to score a 43, which will probably set him up for scholarship programs.
Levi would like to complete the rest of the required school in France, perhaps on a Student Visa. The affordable cost of higher education in France is a big influence. He has grown siblings deeply in student loan debt, and wants a different option.
Dena
On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 2:37 PM Sandra Dodd < Sandra@...> wrote: I know the words "international" and "baccalaureate," and they could make sense without knowing more, but I looked.?
This refers to a specific organization, with a history, and a present, and likely a future. :-)
The first page of the site has links to programs for kids from the age of three, and the picture is all about testing.? Before I saw that, I had guessed that a fourteen year old was wanting to enter university in France, following unschooling.??
Maybe he wants to enter the program now, at the Diploma or Career-Related level?
I thought I knew what the question was about, but now I don't.? IF this particular 14-year-old unschooler is only talking about university and dental school, then lots of people might be able to advise.? ?
Please clarify, original poster.
Here's some history.? I'm curious about a group with the website "" changing their name from "International Baccalaureate Organization" to "International Baccalaureate" but still having the "o" in the URL.? I'm always curious.
Sandra
-- Embracing His grace,Dena
Deuteronomy 28:12 "The?LORD?will open for you His good storehouse, the heavens, to give rain to your land in its season and to bless all the?work of your hand;
|
Re: Radical Unschooler becoming an International Baccalaureate student
-=-He has decided he wants to become an International Baccalaureate student, score a 43 (out of possible 45) on his IB test and move to France to become a dentist (with minimal expense compared to US student debt) and live there.-=-
It sounds like a plan.
It could be a problem that the plan is so particular and limited to a single outcome.??
It might be a kindness by helping him soften any absolute language (if he's using "will" or "when" or "have to") to things like "might" or "if" or "could."
When homeschooling was new and unschoolers were not separate for their own discussions, there were a couple of parents who described how they were helping a child achieve a goal by charts on the wall with particular milestones.? One was about getting into Harvard at a certain age, and the other was an Olympic Gold Medal.
Neither parents nor aggressively intent kids can guarantee either of those outcomes.? Those kids were set up to fail, by too pinprick-sized acceptable ends.? The college chart was on the wall over the kid's bed, I'm pretty sure the parent said.? This was in AOL days, or one might've even been before that, on the Microsoft User Group where homeschooling was discussed before AOL. :-)? Long time back, and neither family was unschooling.? But I am haunted when I remember those stories.? ?
Graduating from a university other than Harvard would be failure, and betrayal of the parental assistance.? ?An Olympic silver medal?? Ditto.
Those now-adults must have clear memories of those charts, and of conversations about them, too.??
___________
A phrase that has worked magic in my life is "That would be nice!"
I learned it from my son, Marty, when he was a young adult.? We had a mutual friend, between our ages.? He would come to visit me to discuss philosophy and his doings and status in a club we were all in.? He would hang out with Marty sometimes, to go places, to do things (in the club or out).? He was lots of fun.? ?
This fun friend was not reliable, and would not always show up, even if he had proposed the arrangements and time and such.??
I was frustrated with him, but Marty was not.? I asked why, and Marty said he assumed Ben might fail to appear, so when a plan was proposed, instead of saying yes, okay, I'll be here/there waiting, Marty would say "That would be nice!"??
Categorizing something as a "might happen" could be the difference between success and failure.
Choices all along the way could change the outcome without failure, if the choices are more important than the goal.? It shouldn't keep someone from reaching a goal, if it's still his "dream" or intent, but he would have gotten there by 90 decisions instead of by ONE.
Any place else the 90 decisions led would be a win, too.
Sandra
My always unschooled 14 year old son is creating a plan for himself, for his future and I want to continue to support, encourage and assist him every way possible.
He has decided he wants to become an International Baccalaureate student, score a 43 (out of possible 45) on his IB test and move to France to become a dentist (with minimal expense compared to US student debt) and live there.
Levi is not an impulsive person, this plan has developed over time and with a great deal of personal research on his part.?
We are currently learning French together on DuoLingo (his suggestion/invitation).?
I have brief experience with IB studies with my oldest daughter back in 2006, but she had been a traditional student - and she didn¡¯t complete this path.
He has done research on the IB program itself, and we believe it is an ¡°in-person" program. I am just beginning my own research, which naturally leads me here.
I¡¯m bringing this here because I know we have many people with grown children who have walked so many unique paths to where the wanted to go.?
Would you please share any perspectives you may have with a big transition like?this?
Anything about IB studies? alternative paths taken for children who wanted to move & study abroad? Ideas and suggestions of things to investigate?
Concerns you can think of? Preparing for ¡°formal education¡±??
Suggestions of what to do, what and who to ask, possible obstacles to be considered?
I¡¯m still in my brainstorming stage, and y¡¯all always have so much to offer.
Thank you? Dena Morrison --
Embracing His grace,Dena
Deuteronomy 28:12 "The?LORD?will open for you His good storehouse, the heavens, to give rain to your land in its season and to bless all the?work of your hand;
Embracing His grace,Dena
Deuteronomy 28:12 "The?LORD?will open for you His good storehouse, the heavens, to give rain to your land in its season and to bless all the?work of your hand;
|
Re: Radical Unschooler becoming an International Baccalaureate student
I know the words "international" and "baccalaureate," and they could make sense without knowing more, but I looked.?
This refers to a specific organization, with a history, and a present, and likely a future. :-)
The first page of the site has links to programs for kids from the age of three, and the picture is all about testing.? Before I saw that, I had guessed that a fourteen year old was wanting to enter university in France, following unschooling.??
Maybe he wants to enter the program now, at the Diploma or Career-Related level?
I thought I knew what the question was about, but now I don't.? IF this particular 14-year-old unschooler is only talking about university and dental school, then lots of people might be able to advise.? ?
Please clarify, original poster.
Here's some history.? I'm curious about a group with the website "" changing their name from "International Baccalaureate Organization" to "International Baccalaureate" but still having the "o" in the URL.? I'm always curious.
Sandra
|
Re: Radical Unschooler becoming an International Baccalaureate student
My always unschooled 14 year old son is creating a plan for himself, for his future and I want to continue to support, encourage and assist him every way possible.
He has decided he wants to become an International Baccalaureate student, score a 43 (out of possible 45) on his IB test and move to France to become a dentist (with minimal expense compared to US student debt) and live there.
Levi is not an impulsive person, this plan has developed over time and with a great deal of personal research on his part.?
We are currently learning French together on DuoLingo (his suggestion/invitation).?
I have brief experience with IB studies with my oldest daughter back in 2006, but she had been a traditional student - and she didn¡¯t complete this path.
He has done research on the IB program itself, and we believe it is an ¡°in-person" program. I am just beginning my own research, which naturally leads me here.
I¡¯m bringing this here because I know we have many people with grown children who have walked so many unique paths to where the wanted to go.?
Would you please share any perspectives you may have with a big transition like?this?
Anything about IB studies? alternative paths taken for children who wanted to move & study abroad? Ideas and suggestions of things to investigate?
Concerns you can think of? Preparing for ¡°formal education¡±??
Suggestions of what to do, what and who to ask, possible obstacles to be considered?
I¡¯m still in my brainstorming stage, and y¡¯all always have so much to offer.
Thank you? Dena Morrison --
Embracing His grace,Dena
Deuteronomy 28:12 "The?LORD?will open for you His good storehouse, the heavens, to give rain to your land in its season and to bless all the?work of your hand;
-- Embracing His grace,Dena
Deuteronomy 28:12 "The?LORD?will open for you His good storehouse, the heavens, to give rain to your land in its season and to bless all the?work of your hand;
|
Testing (try not to) and some history of homeschooling
I moved this section of an article to another page.? Well, duplicated it. I wrote it in 2003:
There is a group of homeschoolers that generally tries not to test their children at all. Because a test score is never ignored, tests affect the relationship between parent and child, and many unschoolers want to preserve their child's journey to adulthood unmeasured, uncompared, and whole. It might seem crazy from the outside, but the disadvantage of testing is real.
Each tree grows from a single seed, and when a tree is growing in your yard what is the best thing you can do for it? You can nurture it and protect it, but measuring it doesn't make it grow faster. Pulling it up to see how the roots are doing has never helped a tree a bit. What helps is keeping animals from eating it or scratching its bark, making sure it has water, good soil, shade when it needs it and sun when it needs it, and letting its own growth unfold peacefully. It takes years, and you can't rush it.
So it is with children. They need to be protected from physical and emotional harm. They need to have positive regard, food, shade and sun, things to see, hear, smell, taste and touch. They need someone to answer their questions and show them the world, which is as new to them as it was to us. Their growth can't be rushed, but it can be enriched.
Where it was and still is:???Changing the World--Some Thoughts on Homeschooling
Where it also is, now:??Testing Unschoolers???
?
Sandra
-- (If this doesn't look like Sandra Dodd's e-mail, it is one.? "AElflaed" is my medieval-studies/SCA name.)
|
belinda dutch
Karen James
Sandra Dodd