Re: AA Virtual History Tour Zoom
Eastern time zone so it starts in about 30 minutes from my writing this
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Re: AA Virtual History Tour Zoom
Thom?
What time zone is that?
Thanks?
Get
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Ugh my bad.? I confused it with this.? hasn't had my coffee yet lol.?
Attached is the fleet for the event I was thinking of. .. 
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Re: AA Virtual History Tour Zoom
Ugh my bad.? I confused it with this. I haven't had my coffee yet lol.? Attached is the flyer for the event I was thinking of. EASTERN time, they are in Florida. 
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Re: AA Virtual History Tour Zoom
Today...the poster says May 10th.....?
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Re: AA Virtual History Tour Zoom
This is later TODAY. Hopefully see you there!
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Short article I wrote on Jimmy B
With the help of members of this group and others, I got to write the below article for the New Frontier newsletter of Western New York AA (can never remember which Area it is), maybe the 20th "This Month in AA History" article I've gotten to write for it. Jimmy B:? The Man Who Helped So Many Into Our Fellowship?
?
Jim, aka "Jimmy" B's sobriety date was June 15, 1938.? He did not come into the AA fellowship then as a glowing, clearly surrendered newcomer, simply ready to do whatever anyone said, or go wherever he was led by elder members.? His first sobriety date had been January of that year, and for months after that, he looked like New York AA's primary problem!? His own main problem had seemed to be "this God business," and he had stayed loudly insistent about it.? He had soon drifted away from the other early AA's, tragically relapsed, but thankfully made it back.? He stayed sober from that June on, and the contributions he made to Alcoholics Anonymous are still very much alive, even growing, today.
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The contribution that maybe most, if not all, AA members have been helped by:? his input on some crucial wording in the Big Book.? There was definite disagreement about how to present the "God" aspect of the program, with Fitz M and others on the side of a strongly religious message, Bill W in favor of compromise, and Hank P, for one, hoping for a more inclusive message.? Jimmy also supported more inclusiveness, and his voice helped with Bill's wording.? The phrase "God as we understood Him" came to be used twice in the 12 Steps, complemented by other statements in? the Big Book, like "When, therefore, we speak to you of God, we mean your own conception of God," on page 47.? With those words, hope and help became available for alcoholics of any and all belief systems.
?
In many other people, that kind of great contribution might have been the final one.? But in 1940, Jimmy helped get the first AA groups started in 2 different cities:? Philadelphia and Baltimore.? Philadelphia was the first, in February.? Jim moved there with a recently published Big Book and the need for, as he put it, "other alcoholics to work and play with."? Only 8 weeks later, the new group had 50 members.? And only weeks after that, he was sitting in the first group in Baltimore, that he had worked with another Jim, Jim R, on getting going.? That group, too, put down roots and began to grow.? By sharing his experience and the Big Book that his contribution helped shape, Jimmy had brought help that spread, and continues to, in both cities and beyond.
?
So in his first year of sobriety, he had made immensely important contributions that mostly involved face to face communication.? After that, he made more through writing.? He wrote the first known history of Alcoholics Anonymous--a short document with a limited scope that, nonetheless, set an important precedent.? And by the time of the 1955 International Convention, which Bill W used to frame our history for AA Comes of Age, his story, "The Vicious Cycle," was in the Big Book.? There, he got to share about his part in "Godas we understood Him," and his experience with the life-saving power of our fellowship.
?
When Jimmy B passed in 1974, just a couple of years after Bill W, he had been sober well over 30 years.? And maybe we can take it as a lasting statement about the power of AA friendships, of how we sober drunks belong together, that his grave is only feet away from that of Fitz M.
?
(Sources include the Big Book, "Writing the Big Book," "Not-God," "Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age," "Early AA in Baltimore," and April 1, 1940 issue of The Philadelphia Record)?
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Re: Animated short film I'm working on about Early AA History.
I eagerly await the day that you get to complete this. It's going to be a milestone project I just know it.
Thom
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Re: 1947 Paper by Bill: “Our AA General Service Center The Alcoholic Foundation of Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow.”
On Thursday, May 7, 2020, 12:05:34 AM EDT, Richard Tompkins <richardwtompkins@...> wrote:
Mike, If it's not a grapevine piece, the ideas were most likely integrated in the 1949-1950 Alcohic Foundation pamphlet about the planned General Service Conference. Contact GSO Archives and Michelle Mirza with your request,? she would be happy to assist.? Best to,? Rick, Illinois?
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S9, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: "Michael Margetis via groups.io" <mfmargetis@...> Date: 5/6/20 10:31 PM (GMT-06:00) Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] 1947 Paper by Bill: “Our AA General Service Center The Alcoholic Foundation of Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow.”
Hi all, Can someone point me to where I can find this paper by Bill W.???“Our AA General Service Center The Alcoholic Foundation of Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow.” from April, 1947. Thanks so much! -Mike Mike Margetis mfmargetis@...
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Re: 1947 Paper by Bill: “Our AA General Service Center The Alcoholic Foundation of Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow.”
On Thursday, May 7, 2020, 01:39:19 PM EDT, Jim <jimincancun@...> wrote:
Arthur S. In his timeline says:? "1947
- April 8, after a difficult year of talks on policy and structure, Bill W
wrote a paper titled “Our AA General Service Center-The Alcoholic Foundation of
Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow.” It outlined a history of the Foundation and
recommended an experimental General Service Conference and renaming the
Foundation to the General Service Board. The report echoed Bill’s concerns
raised in his July 10, 1946 letter to the Board. Most AA members today would
not associate the seeds of the Traditions and Concepts with the years 1946 and
1947 respectively. AA was on the verge of its teenage years and a visionary
Bill W was laying the groundwork for its coming of age. The Trustee’s reaction
was at first defensive then outright negative. They saw no need for change.
Passive resistance turned into solid opposition. (AACOA 210-211, www, GSO-AC)"? Here is a copy of the paper:? ?
regards
jim??
On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 10:31 PM Michael Margetis via <mfmargetis= [email protected]> wrote: Hi all,
Can someone point me to where I can find this paper by Bill W.???“Our AA General Service Center The Alcoholic Foundation of Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow.” from April, 1947.
Thanks so much!
-Mike
Mike Margetis
mfmargetis@...
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Re: 1947 Paper by Bill: “Our AA General Service Center The Alcoholic Foundation of Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow.”
Arthur S. In his timeline says:? "1947
- April 8, after a difficult year of talks on policy and structure, Bill W
wrote a paper titled “Our AA General Service Center-The Alcoholic Foundation of
Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow.” It outlined a history of the Foundation and
recommended an experimental General Service Conference and renaming the
Foundation to the General Service Board. The report echoed Bill’s concerns
raised in his July 10, 1946 letter to the Board. Most AA members today would
not associate the seeds of the Traditions and Concepts with the years 1946 and
1947 respectively. AA was on the verge of its teenage years and a visionary
Bill W was laying the groundwork for its coming of age. The Trustee’s reaction
was at first defensive then outright negative. They saw no need for change.
Passive resistance turned into solid opposition. (AACOA 210-211, www, GSO-AC)"? Here is a copy of the paper:? ?
regards
jim??
On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 10:31 PM Michael Margetis via <mfmargetis= [email protected]> wrote: Hi all,
Can someone point me to where I can find this paper by Bill W.???“Our AA General Service Center The Alcoholic Foundation of Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow.” from April, 1947.
Thanks so much!
-Mike
Mike Margetis
mfmargetis@...
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Re: 1947 Paper by Bill: “Our AA General Service Center The Alcoholic Foundation of Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow.”
Mike, If it's not a grapevine piece, the ideas were most likely integrated in the 1949-1950 Alcohic Foundation pamphlet about the planned General Service Conference. Contact GSO Archives and Michelle Mirza with your request,? she would be happy to assist.? Best to,? Rick, Illinois?
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S9, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone
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-------- Original message -------- From: "Michael Margetis via groups.io" <mfmargetis@...> Date: 5/6/20 10:31 PM (GMT-06:00) Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] 1947 Paper by Bill: “Our AA General Service Center The Alcoholic Foundation of Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow.”
Hi all, Can someone point me to where I can find this paper by Bill W.???“Our AA General Service Center The Alcoholic Foundation of Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow.” from April, 1947. Thanks so much! -Mike Mike Margetis mfmargetis@...
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1947 Paper by Bill: “Our AA General Service Center The Alcoholic Foundation of Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow.”
Hi all,
Can someone point me to where I can find this paper by Bill W.???“Our AA General Service Center The Alcoholic Foundation of Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow.” from April, 1947.
Thanks so much!
-Mike
Mike Margetis
mfmargetis@...
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Re: An intensive study of Irma Livoni.
I believe the study was done by Charles K.? He sent me a copy of his findings,(the document shared by Bob S.) several years ago.
I met Al M. in the late 70's and attended some of the same meetings.
Yours in recovery,
John D.
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AA Virtual History Tour Zoom
HI,
?
Please find the attached for information.
?
Yours in fellowship
?
Glenn (New member via Thom R).
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An intensive study of Irma Livoni.
Actually there exists very much information about the life of Erma Livoni! The attached file includes 12 full pages presenting nearly ?year-by-year descriptions of her life between when she was born in 1910 until her death in 1974! It even ends with a picture of her tombstone. According to the State of California, Irma died of Arteriosclerotic Cardiovascular Disease (heart attack). She died on August 24, 1974 at 8:00 pm. She was laid to rest in the Brown’s Family plot in Section Myrtle, Lot 114, in Lynnwood Park Memorial Cemetery in city of Long Beach in the County of Los Angeles, California. ? Someone performed an very intensive and thorough study! ?Much appreciated! ? Bob S ? -- Bob S
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Re: Early women AA members
Bob i didnt write that. My nameGot autopopulated to the bottom of lawyer@wgwlaw ‘s post. ?He wrote that big paragraph. ?I wrote the small part about wives wanting underirablenwomen kicked out of aa
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On May 5, 2020, at 7:34 PM, Bob S <rstonebraker212@...> wrote:
?
Gene—thanks for the correct spelling of Irma Livoni.?? Bob S ? *** ? ? The men get blamed but it was their wives that wanted the so called inappropriate woman out. ?Same in Akron. Why would men want pretty and slutty women banned. ?I guess in ?some cases the more serious in recovery would want the distraction of women minimized but they welcomed Sybil From day one once they knew she was there to get sober.?
On May 5, 2020, at 1:56 PM, pdBillW <Lawyer@...> wrote:
?Hi Bob: I believe her name was "Irma Livoni" during her time around AA. I always think it is important to recognize the fact that the ONLY things we know about her AA experience in Los Angeles, is that there's a letter of the group "asking her" to come before them to explain herself, and asking her not to attend meetings until she did so. Famously Sybil Corwin (and 5-other last names) would talk at meetings about her treatment in terms of (a) early women's experience with the male dominated fellowship, and (b) Sybil herself had a version of "whatever happened" to Irma, that so far can not be proved with "independent sources." This controversy was also "pre-Tradition" when the fellowship as a whole was struggling with stuff like "membership committees" and what a member's "rights" were. some groups for instance held a member LOST membership by getting caught or admitting drinking again. Others didn't. The fellowship was still in its "explosive growth" period when a lot of this nonsense was going on....The Traditions really reigned in the groups....Thanks for posting!!
--
Eugene Lane
Redondo Bch Ca
-- Bob S
--
Eugene Lane
Redondo Bch Ca
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Re: Writing The Big Book Discrepancy
Perhaps you are taking my post out of context. ?He was talking about there wasnt anyone sober yet in Cleveland ?as of oct 1937. Records show their were at least 5 documented people. ?They are listed on the Amos list.?
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On May 5, 2020, at 7:35 PM, John Schram <lasenby327@...> wrote:
?
He did say Oct? On May 5, 2020, at 1:13 PM, Gene <califxr650l@...> wrote:
?Im loving the book. Hvnt got to far yet but it didnt take long till I hit a big discrepancy. On page 27 William wrote their were no Cleveland members in Oct of 1937 but our history clearly shows there were Cleveland members starting in 1936. ?Jane Sturdevant came in early 1937 is just one example. The Amos list shows 5 Cleveland members sober. Also in the forward to the 2nd edition it states a small group had started at Cleveland in 1937. ? I wonder why he wrote that? -- Eugene Lane Redondo Bch <0468430E-C54E-4335-82A2-67D576B81DEF.jpeg>
--
Eugene Lane
Redondo Bch Ca
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Re: Writing The Big Book Discrepancy
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On May 5, 2020, at 1:13 PM, Gene <califxr650l@...> wrote:
?Im loving the book. Hvnt got to far yet but it didnt take long till I hit a big discrepancy. On page 27 William wrote their were no Cleveland members in Oct of 1937 but our history clearly shows there were Cleveland members starting in 1936. ?Jane Sturdevant came in early 1937 is just one example. The Amos list shows 5 Cleveland members sober. Also in the forward to the 2nd edition it states a small group had started at Cleveland in 1937. ? I wonder why he wrote that? -- Eugene Lane Redondo Bch <0468430E-C54E-4335-82A2-67D576B81DEF.jpeg>
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Re: Early women AA members
Gene—thanks for the correct spelling of Irma Livoni.?? Bob S ? *** ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Gene Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 5:57 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] Early women AA members ? The men get blamed but it was their wives that wanted the so called inappropriate woman out. ?Same in Akron. Why would men want pretty and slutty women banned. ?I guess in ?some cases the more serious in recovery would want the distraction of women minimized but they welcomed Sybil From day one once they knew she was there to get sober.?
On May 5, 2020, at 1:56 PM, pdBillW <Lawyer@...> wrote:
?Hi Bob: I believe her name was "Irma Livoni" during her time around AA. I always think it is important to recognize the fact that the ONLY things we know about her AA experience in Los Angeles, is that there's a letter of the group "asking her" to come before them to explain herself, and asking her not to attend meetings until she did so. Famously Sybil Corwin (and 5-other last names) would talk at meetings about her treatment in terms of (a) early women's experience with the male dominated fellowship, and (b) Sybil herself had a version of "whatever happened" to Irma, that so far can not be proved with "independent sources." This controversy was also "pre-Tradition" when the fellowship as a whole was struggling with stuff like "membership committees" and what a member's "rights" were. some groups for instance held a member LOST membership by getting caught or admitting drinking again. Others didn't. The fellowship was still in its "explosive growth" period when a lot of this nonsense was going on....The Traditions really reigned in the groups....Thanks for posting!!
--
Eugene Lane
Redondo Bch Ca
-- Bob S
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Re: Early women AA members
The men get blamed but it was their wives that wanted the so called inappropriate woman out. ?Same in Akron. Why would men want pretty and slutty women banned. ?I guess in ?some cases the more serious in recovery would want the distraction of women minimized but they welcomed Sybil From day one once they knew she was there to get sober.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On May 5, 2020, at 1:56 PM, pdBillW <Lawyer@...> wrote:
?Hi Bob: I believe her name was "Irma Livoni" during her time around AA. I always think it is important to recognize the fact that the ONLY things we know about her AA experience in Los Angeles, is that there's a letter of the group "asking her" to come before them to explain herself, and asking her not to attend meetings until she did so. Famously Sybil Corwin (and 5-other last names) would talk at meetings about her treatment in terms of (a) early women's experience with the male dominated fellowship, and (b) Sybil herself had a version of "whatever happened" to Irma, that so far can not be proved with "independent sources." This controversy was also "pre-Tradition" when the fellowship as a whole was struggling with stuff like "membership committees" and what a member's "rights" were. some groups for instance held a member LOST membership by getting caught or admitting drinking again. Others didn't. The fellowship was still in its "explosive growth" period when a lot of this nonsense was going on....The Traditions really reigned in the groups....Thanks for posting!!
--
Eugene Lane
Redondo Bch Ca
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Thom R.
Brian
Michael Margetis
Richard Tompkins
John & Linda Dunn
Bob S
Gene