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I have got a C1900 "Guhl & Harbeck , Hamburg" pencil sharpener for restoration . Jupiter 1
Some screws are missing, and before I force in some modern ISO screws;?
Had Germany their own screws size 100+ years ago??
I cannot find a " pencil sharpener IO group" , so I am asking you.
New screws can easy be made with a 7x12 lathe ?
Johannes
Mexico
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Good question.? You may have to measure threads and diameters to determine what they are.? (Learning how to measure threads is a good idea anyway.)? And whether they are odd sizes (today) or not.? And if an odd size, what is closest.
It isn't necessarily easy to make threads with a minilathe in all cases if you are talking about single point threading.? The change gears only support a fixed number of thread choices, and some odd thread pitch probably is not one of them.? Of course, if using a die, that doesn't matter.? But for an archaic thread size you might have trouble finding a die.
And then there is the issue of the screw head.? That can be difficult to varying degrees depending on what type of screw head is required.
You might try this Groups.IO group: Topics on specialized replica engineering, fabrication and antique tool?restoration?are all fair game.Created:?10/27/19 Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Thursday, July 25, 2024 at 09:25:11 AM PDT, Johannes <johannes@...> wrote:
I have got a C1900 "Guhl & Harbeck , Hamburg" pencil sharpener for restoration . Jupiter 1
Some screws are missing, and before I force in some modern ISO screws;?
Had Germany their own screws size 100+ years ago??
I cannot find a " pencil sharpener IO group" , so I am asking you.
New screws can easy be made with a 7x12 lathe ?
Johannes
Mexico
Attachments:
|
I would look at old England standard screws.?
Metric has not been around that long.?
?
Dave?
?
On Thu, Jul 25, 2024 at 09:50 AM, Charles Kinzer wrote:
?
Good question.? You may have to measure threads and diameters to determine what they are.? (Learning how to measure threads is a good idea anyway.)? And whether they are odd sizes (today) or not.? And if an odd size, what is closest.
?
It isn't necessarily easy to make threads with a minilathe in all cases if you are talking about single point threading.? The change gears only support a fixed number of thread choices, and some odd thread pitch probably is not one of them.? Of course, if using a die, that doesn't matter.? But for an archaic thread size you might have trouble finding a die.
?
And then there is the issue of the screw head.? That can be difficult to varying degrees depending on what type of screw head is required.
?
You might try this Groups.IO group:
Topics on specialized replica engineering, fabrication and antique tool?restoration?are all fair game.Created:?10/27/19
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
?
On Thursday, July 25, 2024 at 09:25:11 AM PDT, Johannes <johannes@...> wrote:
?
?
I have got a C1900 "Guhl & Harbeck , Hamburg" pencil sharpener for restoration . Jupiter 1
Some screws are missing, and before I force in some modern ISO screws;?
Had Germany their own screws size 100+ years ago??
I cannot find a " pencil sharpener IO group" , so I am asking you.
New screws can easy be made with a 7x12 lathe ?
?
Johannes
Mexico
?
?
Attachments:
|
Don't know if this helps.? Did a bit of Googling.? Dates on the sharpener are kind of hard to pin down.? Saw "1920s", 1890-1919, 1910-1928...
That said, according to Wikipedia: "The metric system became compulsory on 1 January 1872, in Germany and on 1 January 1876, in Austria.".??
However, I also found this: . "Metric thread development started in Switzerland in 1876 with a metric thread with an angle of 47.5 degrees developed for the clock screw market by professor Thury. This was followed in Germany in 1894 by Leopold Loewenherz who designed a thread with a flank angle of 53 degrees 8 minutes.??A metric standard thread evolved from these Swiss and German threads that were agreed but not formalised by the American, British and French in 1919. Metric threads are based upon a 60-degree flank angle with flat crests and rounded roots. It was not until 1947 with the re-founding of the International Standards Organisation (ISO) that further development took place eventually leading to the promotion of the ISO standard metric thread in 1960. "
So it sounds like they could be metric, but maybe not the standard metric we use today.
On Thursday, July 25th, 2024 at 12:24 PM, Johannes <johannes@...> wrote:
I have got a C1900 "Guhl & Harbeck , Hamburg" pencil sharpener for restoration . Jupiter 1
Some screws are missing, and before I force in some modern ISO screws;?
Had Germany their own screws size 100+ years ago??
I cannot find a " pencil sharpener IO group" , so I am asking you.
New screws can easy be made with a 7x12 lathe ?
Johannes
Mexico
Attachments:
|
??? That's one cool looking unit ya got there . If ya can find a
Patent # on it maybe ya can look up that # & get some more
info on the unit . What do ya think the short pins on the top by
the plastic pencil sharpener are for ?
??? thanks
??? animal
On 7/25/24 9:24 AM, Johannes wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I have got a C1900 "Guhl & Harbeck , Hamburg" pencil
sharpener for restoration . Jupiter 1
Some screws are missing, and before I force in some modern ISO
screws;?
Had Germany their own screws size 100+ years ago??
I cannot find a " pencil sharpener IO group" , so I am asking
you.
New screws can easy be made with a 7x12 lathe ?
Johannes
Mexico
Attachments:
|
Hi Charles. I don’t think it is too difficult to cut ‘odd’ threads on the lathe. Given that for most purposes 60 – 70 % contact is good enough. For a friend who was restoring an old toy steam engine, I cut 2.5mm dia x 0.55mm pitch bolts on my 7x12 imperial lathe. They worked out well and did the job. HTH ??????????? Ellis ? ? ? Good question.? You may have to measure threads and diameters to determine what they are.? (Learning how to measure threads is a good idea anyway.)? And whether they are odd sizes (today) or not.? And if an odd size, what is closest. It isn't necessarily easy to make threads with a minilathe in all cases if you are talking about single point threading.? The change gears only support a fixed number of thread choices, and some odd thread pitch probably is not one of them.? Of course, if using a die, that doesn't matter.? But for an archaic thread size you might have trouble finding a die. And then there is the issue of the screw head.? That can be difficult to varying degrees depending on what type of screw head is required. You might try this Groups.IO group: Topics on specialized replica engineering, fabrication and antique tool?restoration?are all fair game.
Created:?10/27/19 ? Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
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It was surprising how mush of metric system was designed in America and later was ISO standard.?
Try this size most metric bearing? is just little smaller than inch.
So could machine the metric bearings seat easily in America.?
?
But same time America is still on inch standard.??
?
Then English has few odds ones to work. We have ?" pipe threads 27 tpi English ? 28 tpi?
Just try finding 19 tpi tpi on a America lathe.?
?
Dave?
?
On Thu, Jul 25, 2024 at 10:24 AM, chrisser wrote:
Don't know if this helps.? Did a bit of Googling.? Dates on the sharpener are kind of hard to pin down.? Saw "1920s", 1890-1919, 1910-1928...
That said, according to Wikipedia: "The metric system became compulsory on 1 January 1872, in Germany and on 1 January 1876, in Austria.".??
?
However, I also found this: .
"Metric thread development started in Switzerland in 1876 with a metric thread with an angle of 47.5 degrees developed for the clock screw market by professor Thury. This was followed in Germany in 1894 by Leopold Loewenherz who designed a thread with a flank angle of 53 degrees 8 minutes.??A metric standard thread evolved from these Swiss and German threads that were agreed but not formalised by the American, British and French in 1919. Metric threads are based upon a 60-degree flank angle with flat crests and rounded roots. It was not until 1947 with the re-founding of the International Standards Organisation (ISO) that further development took place eventually leading to the promotion of the ISO standard metric thread in 1960. "
So it sounds like they could be metric, but maybe not the standard metric we use today.
On Thursday, July 25th, 2024 at 12:24 PM, Johannes <johannes@...> wrote:
I have got a C1900 "Guhl & Harbeck , Hamburg" pencil sharpener for restoration . Jupiter 1
Some screws are missing, and before I force in some modern ISO screws;?
Had Germany their own screws size 100+ years ago??
I cannot find a " pencil sharpener IO group" , so I am asking you.
New screws can easy be made with a 7x12 lathe ?
?
Johannes
Mexico
?
?
Attachments:
|
On Jul 25, 2024, at 1:58?PM, davesmith1800 via groups.io <davesmith1@...> wrote:
It was surprising how mush of metric system was designed in America and later was ISO standard.?
Try this size most metric bearing? is just little smaller than inch.
So could machine the metric bearings seat easily in America.?
?
But same time America is still on inch standard.??
Ehh sort of. The official definition of the inch is now 25.4 mm, and has been since 1959.?
Side note, I regularly drive on the only US Interstate highway makes in kilometers?
(As of today the mileage markers are still marked in km. Speed signs are marked in MPH though; I guess they figure everyone would speed a lot faster than they already do if it was marked in KPH, even though my speedometer is marked in both. 8- )
--?
Bruce Johnson
The less a man knows about how sausages and laws are made, the easier it is to steal his vote and give him botulism.
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The metric system started in Germany 1872.?
On 7/25/24 10:56, davesmith1800 wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I would look at old England standard screws.?
Metric has not been around that long.?
?
Dave?
?
On Thu, Jul 25, 2024 at 09:50 AM, Charles Kinzer wrote:
?
Good question.? You may
have to measure threads and diameters to determine what
they are.? (Learning how to measure threads is a good idea
anyway.)? And whether they are odd sizes (today) or not.?
And if an odd size, what is closest.
?
It isn't necessarily easy
to make threads with a minilathe in all cases if you are
talking about single point threading.? The change gears
only support a fixed number of thread choices, and some
odd thread pitch probably is not one of them.? Of course,
if using a die, that doesn't matter.? But for an archaic
thread size you might have trouble finding a die.
?
And then there is the
issue of the screw head.? That can be difficult to varying
degrees depending on what type of screw head is required.
?
You might try this
Groups.IO group:
Topics
on specialized replica engineering, fabrication and
antique tool?restoration?are
all fair game.
Created:?10/27/19
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
?
On Thursday, July 25, 2024 at 09:25:11 AM PDT,
Johannes <johannes@...> wrote: ?
?
I
have got a C1900 "Guhl & Harbeck , Hamburg"
pencil sharpener for restoration . Jupiter 1
Some
screws are missing, and before I force in some
modern ISO screws;?
Had
Germany their own screws size 100+ years ago??
I
cannot find a " pencil sharpener IO group" , so I
am asking you.
New
screws can easy be made with a 7x12 lathe ?
?
Johannes
Mexico
?
?
Attachments:
|
Ellis:
However, that is not actually cutting the odd thread.? It is just cutting something close enough to be "good enough".? While t is a valid solution in many or most cases, it is not actually cutting the correct thread.
Charels E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Thursday, July 25, 2024 at 12:59:17 PM PDT, Ellis Cory via groups.io <ellis103@...> wrote:
Hi Charles. I don’t think it is too difficult to cut ‘odd’ threads on the lathe. Given that for most purposes 60 – 70 % contact is good enough. For a friend who was restoring an old toy steam engine, I cut 2.5mm dia x 0.55mm pitch bolts on my 7x12 imperial lathe. They worked out well and did the job. HTH ??????????? Ellis ? ? ? Good question.? You may have to measure threads and diameters to determine what they are.? (Learning how to measure threads is a good idea anyway.)? And whether they are odd sizes (today) or not.? And if an odd size, what is closest. It isn't necessarily easy to make threads with a minilathe in all cases if you are talking about single point threading.? The change gears only support a fixed number of thread choices, and some odd thread pitch probably is not one of them.? Of course, if using a die, that doesn't matter.? But for an archaic thread size you might have trouble finding a die. And then there is the issue of the screw head.? That can be difficult to varying degrees depending on what type of screw head is required. You might try this Groups.IO group: Topics on specialized replica engineering, fabrication and antique tool?restoration?are all fair game.
Created:?10/27/19 ? Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
|
I can see two problems with metri system is there nothing like a inch. If metric had constructed units base metric.?
Like 25 mm and use as 1 unit .
Maybe say mi so could say I need 4 mi witch is 100mm.
The other is Celsius 0 to 100 but too 2X? Celsius to out temperature gauge would read 0 to 100°CD witch would be in Celsius 0 to 100° or in fahrenheit 32° to 122°F very close but more usable. I see all time where a country is still using inch and fahrenheit anc say they metric.??
Metric needs to be more friendly and it would a big winner.
?
The metric was developed for easy calculations not user friendly?
?
Dave?
?
On Thu, Jul 25, 2024 at 03:29 PM, Charles Daldry wrote:
The metric system started in Germany 1872.?
On 7/25/24 10:56, davesmith1800 wrote:
I would look at old England standard screws.?
Metric has not been around that long.?
?
Dave?
?
On Thu, Jul 25, 2024 at 09:50 AM, Charles Kinzer wrote:
?
Good question.? You may have to measure threads and diameters to determine what they are.? (Learning how to measure threads is a good idea anyway.)? And whether they are odd sizes (today) or not.? And if an odd size, what is closest.
?
It isn't necessarily easy to make threads with a minilathe in all cases if you are talking about single point threading.? The change gears only support a fixed number of thread choices, and some odd thread pitch probably is not one of them.? Of course, if using a die, that doesn't matter.? But for an archaic thread size you might have trouble finding a die.
?
And then there is the issue of the screw head.? That can be difficult to varying degrees depending on what type of screw head is required.
?
You might try this Groups.IO group:
Topics on specialized replica engineering, fabrication and antique tool?restoration?are all fair game.Created:?10/27/19
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
?
On Thursday, July 25, 2024 at 09:25:11 AM PDT, Johannes <johannes@...> wrote: ?
?
I have got a C1900 "Guhl & Harbeck , Hamburg" pencil sharpener for restoration . Jupiter 1
Some screws are missing, and before I force in some modern ISO screws;?
Had Germany their own screws size 100+ years ago??
I cannot find a " pencil sharpener IO group" , so I am asking you.
New screws can easy be made with a 7x12 lathe ?
?
Johannes
Mexico
?
?
Attachments:
?
?
?
|
You might find this useful:
?
?< >
?
Measuring small internally threaded holes is tricky. If you have a screw? that fits reasonably well, its just an external thread measuring problem. If not, here's a source with some ideas:
?
?< https://www.practicalmachinist.com/forum/threads/internal-thread-measuring.164921/ >
?
There are some hardening plastic liquids that can make an accurate male threaded piece that can be measured conventionally; alternately, squishing a piece of solid solder against one side of the hole will give you something measurable.
?
Roy
|
On Fri, Jul 26, 2024 at 03:47 AM, davesmith1800 wrote:
Metric needs to be more friendly and it would a big winner.
?
The metric was developed for easy calculations not user friendly?
?
I was born, raised and retired in a metric country.
For me, I can't imagine how to work with those ugly fractions.
With other words, what you are used to, is user friendly.?
I expect, if the USA is a small country, Metric will be standard today.
Peter
|
Littlemachineshop has an online gear calculator that will let you produce any thread desired and with any lathe: you plug in the pitch of the leadscrew and the gears you have available.?? But it's not the easiest thing in the world to find on their site. If you? do a search for threading or thread calculator you only get things they sell (since they're in business to sell things).
Instead, go to the listing on the left of the page below. Then click on "learning center," then "how to articles," then scroll down to "change gears for threading." Mike Taglieri?
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Hi Charles. Nothing in life is 100% accurate. Tolerances, limits and fits appear everywhere – see my opening sentence. He is repairing an old pencil sharpener, not a micrometer, although even many of those have adjustable nuts ! My point was that it is possible to make the threads needed. Another job I did was for an adaptor for a digital camera, 40mm ID x 0.75mm pitch. Needed to be more accurate and this was accomplished. HTH ?????????? Ellis ? ? ? However, that is not actually cutting the odd thread.? It is just cutting something close enough to be "good enough".? While t is a valid solution in many or most cases, it is not actually cutting the correct thread. Charels E. "Chuck" Kinzer
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I blame the pirates.
On Jul 25, 2024, at 10:57 PM, Peter Kern via < p.kern@...> wrote:
On Fri, Jul 26, 2024 at 03:47 AM, davesmith1800 wrote:
Metric needs to be more friendly and it would a big winner.
?
The metric was developed for easy calculations not user friendly?
?
I was born, raised and retired in a metric country.
For me, I can't imagine how to work with those ugly fractions.
With other words, what you are used to, is user friendly.?
I expect, if the USA is a small country, Metric will be standard today.
Peter
--? Bruce Johnson
"Wherever you go, there you are." B. Banzai, PhD
|
Are there any screws that you could remove and see if they fit the places that have missing screws? You could also measure any screws that can be removed to get an idea if it comes close to anything that is currently available. It may give you an idea of what you need. Paul M
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Try working in inch and fraction then metric too.?
That what a machinist has to do they use digital inch and convert the rest.
?
Dave?
?
On Thu, Jul 25, 2024 at 11:24 PM, Peter Kern wrote:
On Fri, Jul 26, 2024 at 03:47 AM, davesmith1800 wrote:
Metric needs to be more friendly and it would a big winner.
?
The metric was developed for easy calculations not user friendly?
?
I was born, raised and retired in a metric country.
For me, I can't imagine how to work with those ugly fractions.
With other words, what you are used to, is user friendly.?
I expect, if the USA is a small country, Metric will be standard today.
Peter
|
? After reading that I'm a Pirates fan, & not the ball team
??? animal
On 7/26/24 6:52 AM, Bruce J wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I blame the pirates.
On Jul 25, 2024, at 10:57 PM, Peter Kern via
< p.kern@...>
wrote:
On Fri, Jul 26, 2024 at 03:47 AM,
davesmith1800 wrote:
Metric needs to be more friendly and it
would a big winner.
?
The metric was developed for easy
calculations not user friendly?
?
I was born, raised and retired in a metric country.
For me, I can't imagine how to work with
those ugly fractions.
With other words, what you are used to, is user
friendly.?
I expect, if the USA is a small country, Metric will be
standard today.
Peter
--?
Bruce Johnson
"Wherever you go, there you are." B.
Banzai, PhD
|
Hi Dave. I’m in the UK. I left school with an engineering qualification, then it was imperial measurement. I gained an indentured apprenticeship as a precision toolmaker, ?with a European company, hence metric. But at college it was imperial. I can mess it up in either system ? ?????????? Ellis ? ? ? Try working in inch and fraction then metric too.? That what a machinist has to do they use digital inch and convert the rest.
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Johannes
davesmith1800
chrisser
