New topic ¡ª- Cutting a thread for a very old wooden clamp.
Dear All,
I realise this is both part Mini lathe and part wood lathe. But to me the metal lathe part is more important. Hence my question to you all.
I have a couple of these old wooden clamps - probably antique. They are just like the metalwork ones we use, but much much larger. One has a severely damaged (external) threads.
I would like to try(?) and cut the replacement long wooden thread on my 7 x 12. So, I bought a second hand thread chaser on eBay. It¡¯s 6 TPI and according to the chart on the Little Machine Shop site - the gear set up is no problem on my imperial lathe.
[JFI it¡¯s Real Bull model purchased from Chester Machines (in the UK) some 20+ years ago. If that¡¯s at all relevant?]
The thread chaser cuts multiple threads at the same time and the tool (normally hand held I understand) needs to be held at ~ 90 degrees to the thread, unlike the usual angle for cutting one side of a metal thread. OR, if you are doing it by hand, do you angle the thread chaser so it cuts a series of slightly deeper threads. Thus the tool needs to be held in the tool post at a similar angle?
Assuming I can sharpen it correctly and clamp it to the tool post, can anyone offer any suggestions or guidance? Do you cut it in multiple passes, in a similar way to a metal thread?
I assume I¡¯m going to have to make and use some sort of a travelling steady. My idea is to clamp it in the chuck and use a small freely rotating chuck at the tailstock end.
I believe I can get a much better quality and accurate thread using the gears than trying to use it hand held - on a very long tool holder, the same as the ones on a wood lathe. I have to check but I think the wood for the screws is normally Beech, if that¡¯s relevant?
Thank you in anticipation.
David of Abingdon(UK)
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Re: minilathe for children.
Rhetorical question (don¡¯t answer)¡ What decade was it when you were 9? ? I bet it was back in the days when manual lathes with hand wheels were still used in manufacturing.
I am subscribed to another forum that deals with vacuum tube electronics and we sometimes see posts about how to get kids interested in vacuum tubes. ? ?The answer is ¡°You can¡¯t¡±. OK, there are some exceptions but mostly you can¡¯t. ? ?The reason the old guys are on that forum is that this was the electronic technology of their youth, Some of them never got around to understanding transistors or digital stuff or computers.
I hate to say it but many people who are using manual machine tools are like the vacuum tube guys, this was the technology when they were young.
Kids don¡¯t have this background, they don¡¯t remember a time when vacuum tubes and gears and electric motors were called ¡°high tech¡±. ? ?To them the way you make a widget is you design it on a computer screen and then send the design files off to some automation. ?It makes the part and FedEx drops it off at the house.
Nothing is wromng with being a fan of mid-20th-century technology. ?I¡¯m subscribed to forums on machine tools and vacuum tubes and I¡¯ve owned sailboats. ?A couple of people I know even own horses.?
With the vacuum tubes, the way to interest a 15-year-old is with guitar amplifiers. ?That is something they can relate to. ?In other words, the tubes are a means to something else, not an end in itself. ? ? With machine tools, the way to go is to get them into making mechanical stuff and a lathe is just one of the tools they will need. ? So, how would you get a kid interested in hammers? ?You don¡¯t, you introduce him to carpentry.
Robots and other things that move are interesting to some kids. ?It is easy to find kids who a fanatically interested in robots and other kinds of robot-like machines.?
I used to teach at a high school (as a second career after retiring from engineering) so I have some background with kids. ?Most are into other things but a few were pretty darn serious about robot competitions and building and designing these machines and because of this they were motivated to learn the tools. ?Tools were the basic shop tools from the 1950¡¯s like a drill press, metal brake, mill,¡ ?and so on. ?But also modern tools like 3D CAD, 3D printing, and CNC. ? Get a smart kid motivated to a goal and he or she will learn the tools. ?Yes ¡°she¡±, ?many more girls then you¡¯d think were there. ?In fact they tend to be the smart ones who can use computers and do math. ? High school is an interesting age span. ? They start with just basic elementary school skills and some of them by the time they are seniors have completed physics and calculus classes and have some elementary computer programming skills. ?
So in short, ypu have to find a way to connect the mid 20th century tools with the interst of earth 21st century kids. ? It can be done. ? But if they don¡¯t see the connection, it will not work.
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On Jan 15, 2024, at 11:20?AM, davesmith1800 <davesmith1@...> wrote:
I was 9 running a lathe.?
Great fun making a canon too.
Dave?
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Re: minilathe for children.
mike allen
5:25pm? ?
? ? ? ?I grew up in the US , I'm 67 now & I can remember going to friends houses & going through the garage & seeing small Craftsman , South Bend & Logan lathes on their dads bench .Some of them may have had a Burke, Atlas or a Duro horizontal lathe to go with the lathe maybe a drill press & almost always a bench grinder
England is great for hobbies.?? Everything I do is mail order in the USA.? Dave?
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Re: minilathe for children.
??? ?? I grew up in the US , I'm 67 now & I can remember
going to friends houses & going through the garage &
seeing small Craftsman , South Bend & Logan lathes on their
dads bench .Some of them may have had a Burke,? Atlas? or a Duro
horizontal lathe to go with the lathe maybe a drill press &
almost always a bench grinder? . Often enough there would be a
copy of Popular Mechanics , Mechanix Illistrated & such mag
open to a page with the project they were trying to build? with
their coveted machines . As most kids started growing up there
seemed to be many other things to grab their interest then dad's
old crap & when pop died that stuff usually ended up in the
dump unfortunately . Now this is just my thinking , but to me it
seems like you folks over in England kept this hobby going in your
land while it all but disappeared? over here in the US . From what
I have read & can see there has always been a large amount of
home engineers in England making these beautiful steam engines
there are pictures of all over the net ( thank you for that )? I'm
not sure what caused it to start gaining ground again over in the
US , but it probably had something to do with the internet . When
I was a kid I knew that someday I would own one of these machines
& it happened @ 20 years back a uncle gave me his early 1900's
Seneca FALLS STAR lathe . yea it was rode hard & put up very
dry it was still MY lathe . Fortunately for home engineers in the
US there are a ton of PL's available today . PL= personal lathe .
Another plus for the hobby youtube , & Maker Spaces are
popping up all over the place . A guy/gal can join a Maker Space
for @ 30-50 bucks a month & see if this hobby is for them ,
they can get some hands on training / advise & then they can
decide " yea I'm gonna go buy that PL " . Some folks have had
their lathe for years & have used it a lot but haven't made
anything like a special project , but they have spent countless
hours making parts to make their lathe better? . Arguing about
what is & isn't a mini lathe is alot like pissing up a rope ,
what does it get you ?
David , your pop's lathe looks like it's a Myford clone ? I see a
lot? of those Myford's in the English magazine I subscribe to ,
seems folks love them .
end of rant?
animal
On 1/15/24 12:36 PM, DAVID WILLIAMS via
groups.io wrote:
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Dear All,
Just For Information¡
Things were different in the late 1950¡¯s. My father taught
myself and my older brother to use his lathe about the same
age(9). I was so small, I had to stand on a stool to work the
controls. Dad was always very close by in his shed (shop as
you call it) - Watching me.
I remember getting very frustrated by the very small bore
through the headstock. Probably about 6mm (1/4¡±) possibly even
smaller.
Some reminisces ¡
For those in the UK who are old enough to remember, I
believe it was probably(?) a Gamages lathe. Dad had to gear
the acme thread lead screw, as it was right handed. He also
made a new cross slide (all angles all filed by hand) as the
original was a little rough. The lathe is still with my older
brother. No markings on the hand wheels etc. Originally driven
by a treadle. I remember him converting it in the 1950¡¯s to an
electric motor. WOW.?
I¡¯m sure many of you have very similar and more(?)
interesting experiences.
I¡¯ve stood over my 8/9 year old grandson, as he machined a
piece of plastic at a slow speed. [Delrin(?) or similar.] He
was amazed. Yes, he was wearing safety goggles etc. I¡¯m sure
many have done similar things.?
Gentlemen, interesting comments on the words ¡®Mini Lathe¡¯
and what it can refer to. We never stop learning. Thank you?
David, of Abingdon, UK.
?I was 9 running a lathe.?
Great fun making a canon too.
Dave?
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Re: minilathe for children.
??? ??? Thank you .
??? animal
On 1/15/24 5:39 AM, Craig Hopewell via
groups.io wrote:
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Better than giving them an iphone.? ?Maybe develop into an
engineer in later life rather than living in their parents
basement at 30-40 years old.? ?(I know of a couple of the latter)
--
Lone Tree, Colorado? ?USA
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Re: minilathe for children.
Dear All,
?
Just For Information¡
?
Things were different in the late 1950¡¯s. My father taught myself and my older brother to use his lathe about the same age(9). I was so small, I had to stand on a stool to work the controls. Dad was always very close by in his shed (shop as you call it) - Watching me.
I remember getting very frustrated by the very small bore through the headstock. Probably about 6mm (1/4¡±) possibly even smaller
That is a small hole in headstock.?? Dave?
|
Re: minilathe for children.
Dear All,
Just For Information¡
Things were different in the late 1950¡¯s. My father taught myself and my older brother to use his lathe about the same age(9). I was so small, I had to stand on a stool to work the controls. Dad was always very close by in his shed (shop as you call it) - Watching me. I remember getting very frustrated by the very small bore through the headstock. Probably about 6mm (1/4¡±) possibly even smaller.
Some reminisces ¡ For those in the UK who are old enough to remember, I believe it was probably(?) a Gamages lathe. Dad had to gear the acme thread lead screw, as it was right handed. He also made a new cross slide (all angles all filed by hand) as the original was a little rough. The lathe is still with my older brother. No markings on the hand wheels etc. Originally driven by a treadle. I remember him converting it in the 1950¡¯s to an electric motor. WOW.? I¡¯m sure many of you have very similar and more(?) interesting experiences.
I¡¯ve stood over my 8/9 year old grandson, as he machined a piece of plastic at a slow speed. [Delrin(?) or similar.] He was amazed. Yes, he was wearing safety goggles etc. I¡¯m sure many have done similar things.?
Gentlemen, interesting comments on the words ¡®Mini Lathe¡¯ and what it can refer to. We never stop learning. Thank you?
David, of Abingdon, UK.
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On 15 Jan 2024, at 19:20, davesmith1800 <davesmith1@...> wrote:
?I was 9 running a lathe.?
Great fun making a canon too.
Dave?
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Re: minilathe for children.
I was 9 running a lathe.?
Great fun making a canon too.
Dave?
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Re: is this an original minilathe
FYI?
Field work would be a drive 1 to 2 hours to job site. A mini lathe would save a 4 hour round tip or more and paid the same day.?
I was ask by one company for a 4 hour drive just to do milling on shaft in place.
?
At time I was to sick for trip.?
Dave
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Re: is this an original minilathe
When first look at mini lathes back in 2003. At time I had a full size lathe but needed a light weight lathe for field work.?
It was for line boring heavy equipment like backhoes. Need a lathe in field to turn and bore sleeves?
Today just right for hobby work. It is light weight for moving too.?
So my vote for mini lathe size is 7 to 8 [178 to 210mm] swing.?
Dave?
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Re: is this an original minilathe
Of course, we are talking semantics.? All such discussions involve correct usage are in the category of semantics.? For example, we could start discussing the correctness, or not, of how the terms, "live center", "rolling center", and "ball bearing center" are used.? Just because it is semantics, does not nullify how those meanings are used, how they have evolved, and in that case, how they evolved differently in different countries.? Saying it is "semantics" doesn't add anything to the merits of the discussion one way or the other.? When they discuss changing the dictionary definition of something at Merriam-Webster, they know it is semantics, but proceed anyway.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Monday, January 15, 2024 at 07:09:56 AM PST, OldToolmaker via groups.io <old_toolmaker@...> wrote:
Charles,
We are talking semantics here!
Individuals will have their own ways of describing the ?various machines whether or not we agree or not.
Dick
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Re: is this an original minilathe
Individuals will have their own ways of describing the ?various machines whether or not we agree or not. paul bunyan mini lathe
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Re: is this an original minilathe
Charles,
We are talking semantics here!
Individuals will have their own ways of describing the ?various machines whether or not we agree or not.
Dick
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Re: minilathe for children.
I'm not a parent, so perhaps my opinion isn't relevant.
But knowing myself at that age, I'd? be reluctant to let children operate any machine like that unsupervised.? I still carry a scar on my left hand from using a drill press at about 10 and not clamping down the piece sufficiently.
I think it would be great to teach them how to use it and build things with them, but even a child with good intentions is likely to make a mistake - even if just due to them being clumsy due to growing.? Would hate for something simple to result in losing a finger or an eye.? But if they're reasonably supervised to mitigate injury, I think it would be a great teaching and bonding experience.
Maybe get some of those inexpensive plastic ("carbon fiber") calipers for them to use and teach them a bit of metrology at the same time.? Would also be a good opportunity to give them some immediate practical uses for the math they're being exposed to in school.? Assuming they still teach math in school...
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Re: minilathe for children.
Better than giving them an iphone.? ?Maybe develop into an engineer in later life rather than living in their parents basement at 30-40 years old.? ?(I know of a couple of the latter)
--
Lone Tree, Colorado? ?USA
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As Charles said, the mini-lathe archive is a good thing to bookmark.? ?I use it occasionally - but not unexpectedly some of the external links have disappeared.
--
Lone Tree, Colorado? ?USA
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Re: minilathe for children.
I have to say, without VERY careful adult supervision, I'd expect blood-red marks on fingers, at least at the start. Eight seems awfully young to turn a child loose on power tools.
Mike Taglieri?
On Sun, Jan 14, 2024, 11:35 PM Johannes < johannes@...> wrote: ? Shall I shop it, so my grandchild ,8 years, can use it in my workshop? Maybe some blue marks on finger the first days, but then maybe she will start a new nice hobby. ?
? Johannes Mexico ? ?
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Re: minilathe for children.
This is a typical piece of aliexpress junk, and not a lathe at all. I would not give it to a monkey leave alone one of my children.
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Re: is this an original minilathe
Jeez, so much said with no consensus to be ever agreed on. Maybe instead of saying mini lathe and such, just state the actual size you are talking about. Simple. Otherwise there will be more talked about the term rather than the actual issue of a particular lathe. So any discussion should state the actual size and not mini lathe as an example.
george
On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 10:58:45 PM PST, davesmith1800 <davesmith1@...> wrote:
Charles Kinzer
Jan 3? ?
I would say absolutely not. There have been a VAST number of small lathes produced, often for watchmaking or model making purposes.
However, this does bring up the question of just what IS a "mini lathe." I doubt there is some specific definition to distinguish it from just being a small lathe. But I think there might be some criteria. And also, what seems have developed in the lexicon of lathe types commercially and casuall
Good question.? I know first time I heard the trem for a? mini lathe was a low cost lathe and using the lead screw for power feed and no power cross feed. Under 7" swing. But there was a gap from 6" to 9" swing.? A 9" lathe was a smallest lathe. I would use term MINI LATHE? for lathes between 7" and 8"
I know I have?seen the term model/watch builder lathes for 6" and under lathes.? Very small horse power too. I think the 7 to 8" lathe is great size for hobby work and light weight.? Dave?
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Re: is this an original minilathe
Charles Kinzer
Jan 3? ?
I would say absolutely not. There have been a VAST number of small lathes produced, often for watchmaking or model making purposes.
However, this does bring up the question of just what IS a "mini lathe." I doubt there is some specific definition to distinguish it from just being a small lathe. But I think there might be some criteria. And also, what seems have developed in the lexicon of lathe types commercially and casuall
Good question.? I know first time I heard the trem for a? mini lathe was a low cost lathe and using the lead screw for power feed and no power cross feed. Under 7" swing. But there was a gap from 6" to 9" swing.? A 9" lathe was a smallest lathe. I would use term MINI LATHE? for lathes between 7" and 8"
I know I have?seen the term model/watch builder lathes for 6" and under lathes.? Very small horse power too. I think the 7 to 8" lathe is great size for hobby work and light weight.? Dave?
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davesmith1800
OldToolmaker
chrisser
Joe Lavery