Re: Are DROs worth the money/trouble
I think we are mostly metric. Look at everything we get from china and other countries. Even stuff on automobiles are metric. So basically we actually use little sae compared to metric. Though my lathe is from micro mark with true inch, I still do stuff in metric. My mill is from lms with the funny inch system and I still do things in metric. If I could snd it was cheap enough I would make them both true metric. But for now the ability or cost would not be justified considering what I'm doing.
george
On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 09:20:34 AM PST, John Mattis <john.mattis@...> wrote:
Yes, but everything worldwide is made using metric measurements. 99/5% of the world population is educated using metric. The U.S. military uses metric. My cousin's daughter teaches high school chemistry?and says she spend 2-weeks teaching metric at the start of the school year. The United States is being really stupid in not changing?to metric. We started to change to metric but Regan killed the effort. Sorry for the minor political comment. John Mattis (retired mechanical?engineer)
We will be dealing with Imperial system for hundreds of years.?
The Imperial?system is still in use in the UK in some places Less in Canada?
Most ball bearing are in metric?
As long ss I have a calculator metrics is easy.? Just remember 25.4 and life is easy.? I do not have any metric mics.?
The best way for machine work is match the mic to the lathe or mill so dials read the same.?
I just got my first metric lathe in November.?
Dave?
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Re: Are DROs worth the money/trouble
Yes, but everything worldwide is made using metric measurements. 99/5% of the world population is educated using metric. The U.S. military uses metric. My cousin's daughter teaches high school chemistry?and says she spend 2-weeks teaching metric at the start of the school year. The United States is being really stupid in not changing?to metric. We started to change to metric but Regan killed the effort. Sorry for the minor political comment. John Mattis (retired mechanical?engineer)
We will be dealing with Imperial system for hundreds of years.?
The Imperial?system is still in use in the UK in some places Less in Canada?
Most ball bearing are in metric?
As long ss I have a calculator metrics is easy.? Just remember 25.4 and life is easy.? I do not have any metric mics.?
The best way for machine work is match the mic to the lathe or mill so dials read the same.?
I just got my first metric lathe in November.?
Dave?
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Re: Are DROs worth the money/trouble
The problem with metric is did not make a easy to use metric one inch or cup.?
If fix that problem ever one would go metric.?
You temp C can fix by just double the number and calling something else.?
Everyone likes 32? to 100 in metric it is 0 to 50 with ? ¡ãC just double the number so it is 0 to 100 and 200 is boiling.?
Dave?
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Hi Charles. When I did my engineering qualification at school, that was using Imperial measurement. Then started an Indentured apprenticeship with a Dutch company, so learnt metric, however, college was still Imperial.
So I can get it wrong in both systems??
?????? ????Ellis (UK)
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Re: Are DROs worth the money/trouble
We will be dealing with Imperial system for hundreds of years.?
The Imperial?system is still in use in the UK in some places Less in Canada?
Most ball bearing are in metric?
As long ss I have a calculator metrics is easy.? Just remember 25.4 and life is easy.? I do not have any metric mics.?
The best way for machine work is match the mic to the lathe or mill so dials read the same.?
I just got my first metric lathe in November.?
Dave?
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Re: Are DROs worth the money/trouble
Hi Charles. When I did my engineering qualification at school, that was using Imperial measurement. Then started an Indentured apprenticeship with a Dutch company, so learnt metric, however, college was still Imperial. So I can get it wrong in both systems ? ?????? ????Ellis (UK) ? ? ? Actually, there are three countries still using the Imperial system:? The U.S., and also the industrial powerhouses of Myanmar and Liberia (both of whom are actively converting to metric). Regarding the inch marked metric threaded (1 mm per handwheel turn) 39.4 thousandths masquerading as 40 thousandths.? This makes each handwheel turn come up 0.0006 thousandths short...OK, so that's about a "half tenth" which is usually trivial in the mini lathe world, but multiple turns have a cumulative error. It always surprised me that more people didn't complain about that with their mini lathes.? But I got responses that people make final cuts to a measurement anyway and it didn't bother them.? And maybe if only working on smaller parts, they were depending on many, or any, full turns of the hand wheel to final cut. At least one mini lathe I saw long aga at least had the handwheels honestly marked.? Instead of 40 even divisions, it had 39 that DID represent one thousandth each and then smaller division just before you reached zero again to cover the 0.4 thousandths. On a mini-mill, I think it is much more of a liability.? You are often doing a lot of table travel (often by counting a fairly large number of turns) and that error per turn will add up to something often unacceptable. When I bought a Chinese mini-lathe and mini-mill many years ago just for fun (and ended up using them far more than I expected as I have larger machines) I got the Micro-Mark "True Inch" variety.? It seems Micro-Mark has some exclusive agreement with Sieg (who manufactures them) so that nobody else can sell them. I recall that Little Machine Shop at one time sold conversion kits to make your lathe or mill have truly inch based travel screws with new handwheels.? I don't know if they sell that anymore.? I looked a little and couldn't find it. For DRO's, I believe the answer to that, and almost any such question, is that there is no answer.? It depends on the person's needs or perhaps merely desires or available funds or even their eyesight. Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
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Re: Are DROs worth the money/trouble
Actually, there are three countries still using the Imperial system:? The U.S., and also the industrial powerhouses of Myanmar and Liberia (both of whom are actively converting to metric).
Regarding the inch marked metric threaded (1 mm per handwheel turn) 39.4 thousandths masquerading as 40 thousandths.? This makes each handwheel turn come up 0.0006 thousandths short...OK, so that's about a "half tenth" which is usually trivial in the mini lathe world, but multiple turns have a cumulative error.
It always surprised me that more people didn't complain about that with their mini lathes.? But I got responses that people make final cuts to a measurement anyway and it didn't bother them.? And maybe if only working on smaller parts, they were depending on many, or any, full turns of the hand wheel to final cut.
At least one mini lathe I saw long aga at least had the handwheels honestly marked.? Instead of 40 even divisions, it had 39 that DID represent one thousandth each and then smaller division just before you reached zero again to cover the 0.4 thousandths.
On a mini-mill, I think it is much more of a liability.? You are often doing a lot of table travel (often by counting a fairly large number of turns) and that error per turn will add up to something often unacceptable.
When I bought a Chinese mini-lathe and mini-mill many years ago just for fun (and ended up using them far more than I expected as I have larger machines) I got the Micro-Mark "True Inch" variety.? It seems Micro-Mark has some exclusive agreement with Sieg (who manufactures them) so that nobody else can sell them.
I recall that Little Machine Shop at one time sold conversion kits to make your lathe or mill have truly inch based travel screws with new handwheels.? I don't know if they sell that anymore.? I looked a little and couldn't find it.
For DRO's, I believe the answer to that, and almost any such question, is that there is no answer.? It depends on the person's needs or perhaps merely desires or available funds or even their eyesight.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 07:01:06 AM PST, Miket_NYC <mctaglieri@...> wrote:
DROs aren't worth the money and trouble to me. I use a dial indicator with a magnetic back on my mini-lathe, my my 11" Logan lathe, and the Z axis of my mini-mill. Not as pretty or cool-looking as a DRO, but I can move it around as needed.
For the mini-mill's X travel, I have a 2" travel dial indicator (The calibration for the X travel of the Imperial mini-mill is ridiculous. It has a 16-tpi leadscrew, which requires a fractional number of thousandths on the dial. The factory in China maybe figured Americans were too stupid to notice, and since we're the only country that still uses the Imperial system, maybe we are. I wish I had bought a metric mini-mill.
Finally, I like the 2" travel indicator on the mini-mill so much that I now wish the magnetic dial indicator I move around on the lathes and the mill was also 2", but?it's just 1". Maybe 2023 is time to change that.?
Mike Taglieri?
A DRO is much more useful on a mill than on a lathe. ? What makes them great compared to the numbers on the hand wheel is that the DRO has no backlash.? It shows the real location of the axis.? The other good feature they all have is a zero-reset.? If you need to move (say) 10 mm from current location, then set to zero and ?turn the handle until the DRO read ¡°10.00¡±. ?
I used screws to mount them but as it turns out tonight I¡¯m ordering some powerful magnets for another project and I¡¯m thinking how easy it would be to use CA glue to put the magnet on the DRO and magnetically mount the DRO.
[Edited Message Follows]
When DRO is working they great. I had a set on a Bridgeport for 20 years. They work great but the rest mills I had did not have DRO'S and still used them without any problems.? When work as a Journeyman Machinist I would go into shop and DRO's work haft the time as you use the tool. I finely got set I move from tool to tool if need.? They are wonderful if treat with care. Dave FYI? I have a set of Shars in my tool box since 2009.
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Re: Are DROs worth the money/trouble
I first started using a lathe without any gratiants on the handles, you ahd to guess how much you were taking off. I've used mill with DRO but not lathes and always though of it as an overkill on lathes.
I recently bought a sendhand lathe with DRO factory fitted.
At first they didn't seem that useful, but now I use them all the time and miss them when I'm using my smaller lathe.
Not essential, but if you can afford them they are very useful.
Just my opinion.
Lez
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Re: Are DROs worth the money/trouble
DROs aren't worth the money and trouble to me. I use a dial indicator with a magnetic back on my mini-lathe, my my 11" Logan lathe, and the Z axis of my mini-mill. Not as pretty or cool-looking as a DRO, but I can move it around as needed.
For the mini-mill's X travel, I have a 2" travel dial indicator (The calibration for the X travel of the Imperial mini-mill is ridiculous. It has a 16-tpi leadscrew, which requires a fractional number of thousandths on the dial. The factory in China maybe figured Americans were too stupid to notice, and since we're the only country that still uses the Imperial system, maybe we are. I wish I had bought a metric mini-mill.
Finally, I like the 2" travel indicator on the mini-mill so much that I now wish the magnetic dial indicator I move around on the lathes and the mill was also 2", but?it's just 1". Maybe 2023 is time to change that.?
Mike Taglieri?
A DRO is much more useful on a mill than on a lathe. ? What makes them great compared to the numbers on the hand wheel is that the DRO has no backlash.? It shows the real location of the axis.? The other good feature they all have is a zero-reset.? If you need to move (say) 10 mm from current location, then set to zero and ?turn the handle until the DRO read ¡°10.00¡±. ?
I used screws to mount them but as it turns out tonight I¡¯m ordering some powerful magnets for another project and I¡¯m thinking how easy it would be to use CA glue to put the magnet on the DRO and magnetically mount the DRO.
[Edited Message Follows]
When DRO is working they great. I had a set on a Bridgeport for 20 years. They work great but the rest mills I had did not have DRO'S and still used them without any problems.? When work as a Journeyman Machinist I would go into shop and DRO's work haft the time as you use the tool. I finely got set I move from tool to tool if need.? They are wonderful if treat with care. Dave FYI? I have a set of Shars in my tool box since 2009.
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Re: Are DROs worth the money/trouble
True DRO (with fully functioning Display) is just as valuable on a lathe as a mill: you can set locations of various features in X & Z, and until you have experienced being able to turn to a diameter instead of a radius you don't know how big a difference this is.
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Re: Are DROs worth the money/trouble
A DRO is much more useful on a mill than on a lathe. ? What makes them great compared to the numbers on the hand wheel is that the DRO has no backlash. ?It shows the real location of the axis. ?The other good feature they all have is a zero-reset. ?If you need to move (say) 10 mm from current location, then set to zero and ?turn the handle until the DRO read ¡°10.00¡±. ?
I used screws to mount them but as it turns out tonight I¡¯m ordering some powerful magnets for another project and I¡¯m thinking how easy it would be to use CA glue to put the magnet on the DRO and magnetically mount the DRO.
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Show quoted text
On Dec 21, 2023, at 4:57?PM, davesmith1800 <davesmith1@...> wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]
When DRO is working they great. I had a set on a Bridgeport for 20 years. They work great but the rest mills I had did not have DRO'S and still used them without any problems.? When work as a Journeyman Machinist I would go into shop and DRO's work haft the time as you use the tool. I finely got set I move from tool to tool if need.? They are wonderful if treat with care. Dave FYI? I have a set of Shars in my tool box since 2009.
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Here tip that make life easier.?
Threading and the lack of Threading dial.
The lathe I used have a lead screw of 4tpi.
I did not need a Threading dial? for 4. ,8 , 12, 16 or 24 tpi did not need a threading dial fast and easy threading.?
This works on mini lathes too.
16tpi lead screw 16 or 32 tpi? do not need a threading dial
1.5mm lead screw 1.5 or .75 mm
2 mm lead screw 2, 1 or .5 mm
So on projects and doing I try pick a thread that is easy.
Dave?
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Re: Are DROs worth the money/trouble
When DRO is working they great.
I had a set on a Bridgeport for 20 years. They work great but the rest mills I had did not have DRO'S and still used them without any problems.?
When work as a Journeyman Machinist I would go into shop and DRO's work haft the time as you use the tool.
I finely got set I move from tool to tool if need.?
They are wonderful if treat with care.
Dave
FYI?
I have a set of Shars in my tool box since 2009.
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Re: Are DROs worth the money/trouble
Have DRO's on both mill and lathe.? Couldn't do the work I do without them
DROPro magnetic on the mill and some cheap Shars caliper type on the lathe.? When I install the 16" bed, I have another set of magnetics to install.
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On 12/21/2023 4:24 PM, Bruce J wrote: It¡¯s not up yet, but if you're a subscriber you be able to find it here
They are at long last adding digital archives that subscribers can read; they¡¯re back to Jan/Feb 2018; I know my own subscription started after that, but I can read it, so they¡¯re available to all subscribers.
On Dec 21, 2023, at 2:00 PM, Ralph Hulslander <rhulslander@...> wrote:
Chazz, do you have a link to your article?
Ralph
On Thu, Dec 21, 2023 at 3:55?PM ChazzC <chaz-creswell@... <mailto:chaz-creswell@...>> wrote:
See my article in the January/February issue of The Home Shop Machinist for how I added X- & Z-axis scales to my 7x16. For a number of reasons I used iGaging SS Absolute Plus scales and a TounchDRO adapter, but the same approach could be used with glass or magnetic scales:
Attachments:
20231204 Lead Photo Lathe w TDROs.jpeg </g/7x12MiniLathe/attachment/117888/>
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Re: Are DROs worth the money/trouble
It¡¯s not up yet, but if you're a subscriber you be able to find it here??
They are at long last adding digital archives that subscribers can read; they¡¯re back to Jan/Feb 2018; I know my own subscription started after that, but I can read it, so they¡¯re available to all subscribers.
On Dec 21, 2023, at 2:00 PM, Ralph Hulslander <rhulslander@...> wrote:
Chazz, do you have a link to your article?
Ralph See my article in the January/February issue of The Home Shop Machinist?for how I added X- & Z-axis scales to my 7x16. For a number of reasons I used iGaging SS Absolute Plus scales and a TounchDRO adapter, but the same approach could be used with glass or magnetic scales:
![]()
Attachments:
--?
Bruce Johnson
The less a man knows about how sausages and laws are made, the easier it is to steal his vote and give him botulism.
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Re: Are DROs worth the money/trouble
The article will not be available online (or hardcopy) until early January. I got my advance copies today, but don't expect my subscription copy until maybe next week. Once it is available, you can either purchase a hardcopy of the issue or purchase a digital version (?
The content is copyrighted, so you can only access through a subscription or individual issue purchase. I don't get any commission for sales, but I think the article is worth the $5 for the digital version.
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Re: Are DROs worth the money/trouble
Chazz, do you have a link to your article?
Ralph
See my article in the January/February issue of The Home Shop Machinist?for how I added X- & Z-axis scales to my 7x16. For a number of reasons I used iGaging SS Absolute Plus scales and a TounchDRO adapter, but the same approach could be used with glass or magnetic scales:
![]()
?
Attachments:
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Re: Are DROs worth the money/trouble
See my article in the January/February issue of The Home Shop Machinist?for how I added X- & Z-axis scales to my 7x16. For a number of reasons I used iGaging SS Absolute Plus scales and a TounchDRO adapter, but the same approach could be used with glass or magnetic scales:  ?
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Re: Are DROs worth the money/trouble
Chris, once you use TouchDRO you will love it! I have it on my mill, one of these days I'll have it on my lathe also.
I've looked at TouchDRO.? I'm not sure i'm a fan.? I hate touch screens, especially in the shop even though I do see some benefits.
On Thursday, December 21st, 2023 at 2:45 PM, mike allen < animal@...> wrote:
I don't know if they still have them , LMS used to have these
DRO's that mounted behind the handles on the compound &
Crossslide that were made for these small lathes . As far as the
carriage ya probably would need a linear scale , ya can go from a
Digital caliper all the way up to a Magnetic scale for that one .
Have ya looked at TouchDro ?
animal
On 12/21/23 8:29 AM, chrisser via
wrote:
I've been looking at DROs again. Seems I go through this
exercise every six months or so.
Wanted to bounce off the conclusion I always seem to come to and
see if you guys have a different opinion.
1) Tailstock. This seems like one of the easiest (cheap caliper
modification) and cheapest. I'm not sure the accuracy of
calipers is necessary, but it's so easy to do that maybe why
not. The graduations on the tailstock are getting hard to read
and a magnetic dial indicator is easily bumped.
2) Carriage This seems the easiest to implement, and also the
most useless. Even if I put a handle on my leadscrew, the feed
is awfully coarse. Typically I use the carriage to get close,
lock it down, and then feed with the compound. The only time it
might be useful is turning a diameter on a long enough piece
that the compound doesn't have the range on it's own - even
then, if I had to turn to a shoulder, I'd still likely set a
carriage stop and advance the last few bits with the compound.
Maybe I'm doing it wrong
3) Cross-slide. I think this one has some merit. Not too
difficult to implement and with the slop in the screw, having
absolute measurement would be useful. Leaning heavily towards
this one.
4) Compound. This one would be most useful, but it's also the
hardest to do especially without getting in the way, and it's
complicated if you angle the compound. I'd like to do this one,
but I'm not sure if it's doable enough to make it worth it.
What do you guys think?
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Re: Are DROs worth the money/trouble
I've looked at TouchDRO.? I'm not sure i'm a fan.? I hate touch screens, especially in the shop even though I do see some benefits.
On Thursday, December 21st, 2023 at 2:45 PM, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:
I don't know if they still have them , LMS used to have these
DRO's that mounted behind the handles on the compound &
Crossslide that were made for these small lathes . As far as the
carriage ya probably would need a linear scale , ya can go from a
Digital caliper all the way up to a Magnetic scale for that one .
Have ya looked at TouchDro ?
animal
On 12/21/23 8:29 AM, chrisser via
groups.io wrote:
I've been looking at DROs again. Seems I go through this
exercise every six months or so.
Wanted to bounce off the conclusion I always seem to come to and
see if you guys have a different opinion.
1) Tailstock. This seems like one of the easiest (cheap caliper
modification) and cheapest. I'm not sure the accuracy of
calipers is necessary, but it's so easy to do that maybe why
not. The graduations on the tailstock are getting hard to read
and a magnetic dial indicator is easily bumped.
2) Carriage This seems the easiest to implement, and also the
most useless. Even if I put a handle on my leadscrew, the feed
is awfully coarse. Typically I use the carriage to get close,
lock it down, and then feed with the compound. The only time it
might be useful is turning a diameter on a long enough piece
that the compound doesn't have the range on it's own - even
then, if I had to turn to a shoulder, I'd still likely set a
carriage stop and advance the last few bits with the compound.
Maybe I'm doing it wrong
3) Cross-slide. I think this one has some merit. Not too
difficult to implement and with the slop in the screw, having
absolute measurement would be useful. Leaning heavily towards
this one.
4) Compound. This one would be most useful, but it's also the
hardest to do especially without getting in the way, and it's
complicated if you angle the compound. I'd like to do this one,
but I'm not sure if it's doable enough to make it worth it.
What do you guys think?
|
Re: Are DROs worth the money/trouble
I don't know if they still have them , LMS used to have these
DRO's that mounted behind the handles on the compound &
Crossslide that were made for these small lathes . As far as the
carriage ya probably would need a linear scale , ya can go from a
Digital caliper all the way up to a Magnetic scale for that one .
Have ya looked at TouchDro ?
animal
On 12/21/23 8:29 AM, chrisser via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I've been looking at DROs again.? Seems I go through this
exercise every six months or so.
Wanted to bounce off the conclusion I always seem to come to and
see if you guys have a different opinion.
1) Tailstock.? This seems like one of the easiest (cheap caliper
modification) and cheapest.? I'm not sure the accuracy of
calipers is necessary, but it's so easy to do that maybe why
not.? The graduations on the tailstock are getting hard to read
and a magnetic dial indicator is easily bumped.
2) Carriage This seems the easiest to implement, and also the
most useless.? Even if I put a handle on my leadscrew, the feed
is awfully coarse.? Typically I use the carriage to get close,
lock it down, and then feed with the compound.? The only time it
might be useful is turning a diameter on a long enough piece
that the compound doesn't have the range on it's own - even
then, if I had to turn to a shoulder,? I'd still likely set a
carriage stop and advance the last few bits with the compound.?
Maybe I'm doing it wrong
3) Cross-slide.? I think this one has some merit.? Not too
difficult to implement and with the slop in the screw, having
absolute measurement would be useful.? Leaning heavily towards
this one.
4) Compound.? This one would be most useful, but it's also the
hardest to do especially without getting in the way, and it's
complicated if you angle the compound.? I'd like to do this one,
but I'm not sure if it's doable enough to make it worth it.
?
What do you guys think?
|
John Mattis
davesmith1800
Les Orton
chrisser