Re: Dismounting the headstock bearings
Thanks Jon,
I don't think so because the two bearings are #30206 as per the
drawing / BOM, please refer to the documents I sent with one or my
first messages (2025 01 25). Apparently, there's no spacer in
between.
All this needs to be checked while dismounting the headstock, of
course, because it's not possible to 100% trust this kind of
equipment nor the manual. I already noticed several errors.
have a nice day.
On 10.02.25 05:19, Jon Rus via
groups.io wrote:
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Hello PR,
I found this image
This photo of a shaft clearly shows a
stepped section near the shaft bearing area of the spindle.? If
yours has a similar area, you will not win easily.
Did you disassemble and review yours
lately for burrs or "out-of-round" tight tolerance problems to
see why you can not create preload?
|
Re: Dismounting the headstock bearings
PR Here is a last photo,
Maybe you have a stack up of plastic
spacers that are flexing under momentary instantaneous load?? They
seem to be tight, but they might flex and return to their tight
look--lye to you about being tight?
On 2/9/2025 10:23 AM, Pierre-Raymond
Rondelle via groups.io wrote:
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Show quoted text
On 08.02.25 21:38, Ryan H via
groups.io wrote:
1/100mm is about .0003". Over what distance are you
trying to maintain that? Just curious as it shouldn't be a
problem on shorter lengths with everything properly adjusted
and aligned especially the saddle and headstock. I may have
missed where you said but if you're saddle travel isn't
perfect you're not gonna get .0003" unless you work only in
the "good" area of travel. Then the headstock has to be done
but anyway...
?
The inner race of the inner bearing can be an
interference fit on the spindle albeit very slight. Like tap
it with a wooden hammer handle only to fully seat it.?
?
?The inner race of the outer bearing should be a very
snug slip fit on the spindle. That race has to be able to
slide just like on a vehicle. ?It's fairly time consuming
process. ?Sounds like your spindle wasn't properly fit for
the bearing. If it was the race would move so you can set
it. I think you're first step is going to be to rectify that
and from there you're going to be set on that part.
|
Re: Dismounting the headstock bearings
PR, Here is another image, perhaps the
change in size of the shaft is interfering with the tightening of
the nut and the outer stack of gears and spacers and aligning
shaft keys?
Again, Good Luck!
On 2/9/2025 10:23 AM, Pierre-Raymond
Rondelle via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 08.02.25 21:38, Ryan H via
groups.io wrote:
1/100mm is about .0003". Over what distance are you
trying to maintain that? Just curious as it shouldn't be a
problem on shorter lengths with everything properly adjusted
and aligned especially the saddle and headstock. I may have
missed where you said but if you're saddle travel isn't
perfect you're not gonna get .0003" unless you work only in
the "good" area of travel. Then the headstock has to be done
but anyway...
?
The inner race of the inner bearing can be an
interference fit on the spindle albeit very slight. Like tap
it with a wooden hammer handle only to fully seat it.?
?
?The inner race of the outer bearing should be a very
snug slip fit on the spindle. That race has to be able to
slide just like on a vehicle. ?It's fairly time consuming
process. ?Sounds like your spindle wasn't properly fit for
the bearing. If it was the race would move so you can set
it. I think you're first step is going to be to rectify that
and from there you're going to be set on that part.
|
Re: Dismounting the headstock bearings
PR, Here is another image
On 2/9/2025 10:23 AM, Pierre-Raymond
Rondelle via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 08.02.25 21:38, Ryan H via
groups.io wrote:
1/100mm is about .0003". Over what distance are you
trying to maintain that? Just curious as it shouldn't be a
problem on shorter lengths with everything properly adjusted
and aligned especially the saddle and headstock. I may have
missed where you said but if you're saddle travel isn't
perfect you're not gonna get .0003" unless you work only in
the "good" area of travel. Then the headstock has to be done
but anyway...
?
The inner race of the inner bearing can be an
interference fit on the spindle albeit very slight. Like tap
it with a wooden hammer handle only to fully seat it.?
?
?The inner race of the outer bearing should be a very
snug slip fit on the spindle. That race has to be able to
slide just like on a vehicle. ?It's fairly time consuming
process. ?Sounds like your spindle wasn't properly fit for
the bearing. If it was the race would move so you can set
it. I think you're first step is going to be to rectify that
and from there you're going to be set on that part.
|
Re: Dismounting the headstock bearings
Hello PR,
I found this image
This photo of a shaft clearly shows a
stepped section near the shaft bearing area of the spindle.? If
yours has a similar area, you will not win easily.
Did you disassemble and review yours
lately for burrs or "out-of-round" tight tolerance problems to see
why you can not create preload?
Good Luck in your solution....
On 2/9/2025 10:23 AM, Pierre-Raymond
Rondelle via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 08.02.25 21:38, Ryan H via
groups.io wrote:
1/100mm is about .0003". Over what distance are you
trying to maintain that? Just curious as it shouldn't be a
problem on shorter lengths with everything properly adjusted
and aligned especially the saddle and headstock. I may have
missed where you said but if you're saddle travel isn't
perfect you're not gonna get .0003" unless you work only in
the "good" area of travel. Then the headstock has to be done
but anyway...
?
The inner race of the inner bearing can be an
interference fit on the spindle albeit very slight. Like tap
it with a wooden hammer handle only to fully seat it.?
?
?The inner race of the outer bearing should be a very
snug slip fit on the spindle. That race has to be able to
slide just like on a vehicle. ?It's fairly time consuming
process. ?Sounds like your spindle wasn't properly fit for
the bearing. If it was the race would move so you can set
it. I think you're first step is going to be to rectify that
and from there you're going to be set on that part.
|
Re: Dismounting the headstock bearings
Gotcha. If it was me, I'd start with two things. First would be pulling the headstock apart and addressing the bearing adjustment problem. The inner race on the outer bearing needs to be able to slide on the spindle to set the preload. I did mine the old fashioned way like you'd polish engine crankshaft journals. If you haven't done that it done by bolting the spindle down firmly, wrapping sand paper around the spindle, wrapping a long shoelace or the like around the paper a few times and pulling the ends of the laces to turn the paper. There are probably YouTube videos that show what I'm describing. It works better than just trying to hand sand as it keeps pretty even pressure all the way around the part. If you decide to do it use fine grit paper, like no courser than 800 to start, as yours is probably pretty close. I may even start with 1,000 as yours is probably within fractions of a thousandth if the bearing already goes on but doesn't slide. Go slow and check fit often. As we know It's easier to remove material than put it back. :-) ?You just want it slide, just. If you go too far then the spindle can move in the inner race and we don't want that. It's a time consuming process, lots of cleaning and testing for maybe only two or three rotations of the paper before cleaning and testing again but it's worth the time. You'll be able to set it perfectly.?
?
My second thing to check would be the lead screw and half nuts to see if there's a burr or anything causing irregular movement and adjust of the base, compound and cross slides. That may cause the ghost thread. You can check if it's from the compound or cross slides by locking them down tight with the gib adjustment screws and taking a test cut. I'm sure you know it's really a process of eliminating variables until you find which part is causing the problem and then addressing that part to eliminate the issue.?
?
Ryan
On Feb 9, 2025 at 10:23?AM -0500, Pierre-Raymond Rondelle via groups.io <pierreraymondrondelle@...>, wrote:
Ryan,
I'm not speaking of alignment accuracy that would mainly lead to a machine a taper instead of a cylinder but of runout of the chuck that is currently resulting in an irregular machined surface. And you're right in your rationale, telling that, depending on the location the machining is preformed, the effect is greater when the distance to the chuck is increased. I admit not having checked the conjunction of the bad surface with the distance from the chuck. I take note to do that during the final verification after fixing the trouble.
I don't also remember if I said this : the roughness is drastically improved as well by decoupling the gear train from the 40-teeth drive gear at the end of the spindle. This phenomenon lets me thinking that the two bearings aren't pre-constrained enough. I don't understand yet why the ghost thread it's close to the lead screw pitch (2mm). I gonna change the ratio of the gear train to check it.
On 08.02.25 21:38, Ryan H via groups.io wrote:
1/100mm is about .0003". Over what distance are you trying to maintain that? Just curious as it shouldn't be a problem on shorter lengths with everything properly adjusted and aligned especially the saddle and headstock. I may have missed where you said but if you're saddle travel isn't perfect you're not gonna get .0003" unless you work only in the "good" area of travel. Then the headstock has to be done but anyway...
?
The inner race of the inner bearing can be an interference fit on the spindle albeit very slight. Like tap it with a wooden hammer handle only to fully seat it.?
?
?The inner race of the outer bearing should be a very snug slip fit on the spindle. That race has to be able to slide just like on a vehicle. ?It's fairly time consuming process. ?Sounds like your spindle wasn't properly fit for the bearing. If it was the race would move so you can set it. I think you're first step is going to be to rectify that and from there you're going to be set on that part.
|
Re: Dismounting the headstock bearings
Ryan,
I'm not speaking of alignment accuracy that would mainly lead to
a machine a taper instead of a cylinder but of runout of the chuck
that is currently resulting in an irregular machined surface. And
you're right in your rationale, telling that, depending on the
location the machining is preformed, the effect is greater when
the distance to the chuck is increased. I admit not having checked
the conjunction of the bad surface with the distance from the
chuck. I take note to do that during the final verification after
fixing the trouble.
I don't also remember if I said this : the roughness is
drastically improved as well by decoupling the gear train from the
40-teeth drive gear at the end of the spindle. This phenomenon
lets me thinking that the two bearings aren't pre-constrained
enough. I don't understand yet why the ghost thread it's close to
the lead screw pitch (2mm). I gonna change the ratio of the gear
train to check it.
On 08.02.25 21:38, Ryan H via groups.io
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
1/100mm is about .0003". Over what distance are you trying
to maintain that? Just curious as it shouldn't be a problem on
shorter lengths with everything properly adjusted and aligned
especially the saddle and headstock. I may have missed where
you said but if you're saddle travel isn't perfect you're not
gonna get .0003" unless you work only in the "good" area of
travel. Then the headstock has to be done but anyway...
?
The inner race of the inner bearing can be an interference
fit on the spindle albeit very slight. Like tap it with a
wooden hammer handle only to fully seat it.?
?
?The inner race of the outer bearing should be a very snug
slip fit on the spindle. That race has to be able to slide
just like on a vehicle. ?It's fairly time consuming process.
?Sounds like your spindle wasn't properly fit for the bearing.
If it was the race would move so you can set it. I think
you're first step is going to be to rectify that and from
there you're going to be set on that part.
|
Re: ANSWER TO GUIDE RULE - OT
Not bothered about having flat spaces next to the tools, that’s what benches are for.? They’ll be roughly the same height as my current benches so it’ll work out. ?There might be some depending on how things work out, but smaller is better is it frees up more space. ? I find those flat spaces that the Crasftsmans has are a bit clunky, having to take them off & on whenever you switch tools is probably more trouble than they’re worth. ? Tony ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Charles Kinzer via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, 8 February 2025 11:23 am
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [7x12MiniLathe] ANSWER TO GUIDE RULE - OT? You have to consider that the Craftsmen "rotary triple" gizmo for three tools also provides a little flat workbench space on each side of the tool.? That is probably useful.? It is true that you could probably fit two doubles in the same space, but you would have next to zero flat working space.? Of course, that may not matter to somebody if they have some flat space elsewhere. Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer On Friday, February 7, 2025 at 04:02:05 PM PST, Tony Smith via groups.io <ajsmith1968@...> wrote: The lathe & mill are roughly the same weight (45kg & 55kg?) and the centre of gravity would be roughly at the pivot point (biased towards the mill as it’s heavier & taller) so flipping wouldn’t involve too much effort. ? Most of these set-ups let you go in both directions, mine would only go one way so less chance of it getting away from me. ? I’ve got a CAD model of the lathe, if I had one for the mill I could model the whole thing and see how it balances. ? Tony ? ? ? Unless it would have an assisting motor, I don't think that I would be able to flip a mini-lathe or a mini-mill.? I can barely lift one, and usually have to disassemble parts of them when considering a location move.? Otherwise, for lighter bench tools, I think it's a great idea.
|
Re: cutting with rotating cutter
Thanks Roy
I am cutting clock wheels for my private clocks.
Even though the Carriger has a very tight fit when I cut wheels, I feel there are a little bit twist when I return the cutter for next tooth.
One way is to stop the cutting wheel before return.
Anyway, I needed your words before making this crank.
(an interesting project)
Johannes
Mexico
?
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Yes!
?
Either method works, The carriage wheel gives more rapid carriage movement, a leadscrew crank gives more precise movement. Adding a leadscrew crank is pretty easy & gives you the option of using? whichever works best on a particular project.
?
Roy
|
Re: cutting with rotating cutter
Yes!
?
Either method works, The carriage wheel gives more rapid carriage movement, a leadscrew crank gives more precise movement. Adding a leadscrew crank is pretty easy & gives you the option of using? whichever works best on a particular project.
?
Roy
|
Re: Dismounting the headstock bearings
1/100mm is about .0003". Over what distance are you trying to maintain that? Just curious as it shouldn't be a problem on shorter lengths with everything properly adjusted and aligned especially the saddle and headstock. I may have missed where you said but if you're saddle travel isn't perfect you're not gonna get .0003" unless you work only in the "good" area of travel. Then the headstock has to be done but anyway...
?
The inner race of the inner bearing can be an interference fit on the spindle albeit very slight. Like tap it with a wooden hammer handle only to fully seat it.?
?
?The inner race of the outer bearing should be a very snug slip fit on the spindle. That race has to be able to slide just like on a vehicle. ?It's fairly time consuming process. ?Sounds like your spindle wasn't properly fit for the bearing. If it was the race would move so you can set it. I think you're first step is going to be to rectify that and from there you're going to be set on that part.?
?
?
On Feb 8, 2025 at 1:59?PM -0500, Pierre-Raymond Rondelle via groups.io <pierreraymondrondelle@...>, wrote:
Ryan, I agree with you and I'd like to add some comments.
Concerning the use of tapered bearings, my lathe came with them and I didn't touch them until I decided to get rid off a bad surface aspect. A little bit rough with a ghost wave of the same pitch as the lead screw. I slightly improved this situation but I can't manage to tighten the spindle nut enough to go further. Hence this thread.
On to the other hand, I'm not looking at a thou but 1/100mm and a good surface aspect and ... the very last 1/100 are extremely harder to reach !
Concerning a wheel hub, make the experience to put the car on a jack and twist the wheel. You will be surprised, the clearance is probably pretty greater than a thou.
On a mini lathe, the tapered bearings are there more for reducing the stray movements than to withstand loads. The sole difference I noticed is that on a wheel hub, the adjustment is very easy because the inner ring is not pressed in but slipping on the spindle. I found an explanation for that, please, read my other post.
On 08.02.25 07:05, Ryan H via groups.io wrote:
My tapered rollers have been in for 10 years. I haven't touched them in 3 1/2 years since I installed my els. I pulled the rear when I had the nuts off to install some parts for that and in the prior 6 1/2 years hadn't done a thing. They're fine and still as smooth as the day I installed them and maybe even smoother. ?The preload has never needed adjustment after a couple days of getting it set and my lathe will hold less than .001" over 12 inches. We're talking about bearings meant for vehicle use. Carrying 2 tons and absorbing constant impacts and lasting tens of thousands of miles. I packed mine with synthetic bearing grease. It's still there. Our little lathes turn a couple thousand rpm tops and how often are you running it wide open? ?And how long are you running it? ?We're not talking the equivalent of a hundred plus mile a day, five day a week commute here. We're maybe covering the same as a hundred miles a year, maybe. ?And at a lot less load. The angular contact are probably easier to install from what I've read as there's no need to sand the spindle for the slip fit tapered rollers require but either will last a lifetime with extremely minimal if any required maintenance if property installed.?
|
cutting with rotating cutter
Question:
Is lead screw a better tool to move the carriage correct in both direction than use the hand feed wheel?
If so, I will make a crank on the right side of the leadscrew.
(I am lazy, I do not want to stop the cutting wheel after a cut before returning it for the next cut.)
Johannes
Mexico
|
Re: Dismounting the headstock bearings
Hi Jon,
Thank you for your reply.
For your information, my lathe chuck is a 100mm (4"). As far as I
know the bearings are of the tapered type but I didn't verify,
just referring to the drawing and the BOM.
I have neither any problem with the dismounting / mounting jigs
nor the procedure but I'm only concerned
by the fact that I can't manage to tighten the spindle nut
farther, hence I can't adjust the clearance. This
is exactly the same on the milling machine spindle except that the
bearings have angular contact. On another spindle (the Unimat
lathe's one, w/ angular contact) tuning the clearance is not an
issue at all.
I considered again the design rules and I compared them : the
conclusion is that it fits with the situation but contradicts the
common sense !
- bearings are normally of class 0.
- external cages : P7 fixed bore on the gear side of the lathe and
R7 for heavy loads on the chuck side => press needed.
Internal rings : n6 rotating arbor on the gear side and p6 on the
chuck side where the load is heavier. => press needed.
This doesn't allow any adjustment ??? So
what's the use of the adjustment nut couple ?
Another question waiting for response: Since the spindle id hard
to dismount, how can the spindle bearings
be maintained, cleaned and greased ? The manual
doesn't tell anything about that.
- Should I consider the reverse (fixed arbor and rotating like on a
car)
external cage : rotating bore, P7 or R7 for heavy loads (no
adjustment)
internal rings : fixed arbor, g6 or h6 (adjustment allowed on the
arbor)
On 07.02.25 19:20, Jon Rus via
groups.io wrote:
Hello PR,
My experience with these bearings is
that they can be hand tight, up to press tight.? On an
automobile the bearing is slip fit on the spindle and press
tight on the hub, so use your judgement carefully.
Do you have a 3" spindle mount or 4"
spindle mount???
[...]
1. Before disassembly, make a special
bushing to go into the small end of the spindle so that it will
grab just the edge of the spindle and still pass through the
inner diameter of the
[...]
|
Re: Dismounting the headstock bearings
Ryan, I agree with you and I'd like to add some comments.
Concerning the use of tapered bearings, my lathe came with them
and I didn't touch them until I decided to get rid off a bad
surface aspect. A little bit rough with a ghost wave of the same
pitch as the lead screw. I slightly improved this situation but I
can't manage to tighten the spindle nut enough to go further.
Hence this thread.
On to the other hand, I'm not looking at a thou but 1/100mm and a
good surface aspect and ... the very last 1/100 are extremely
harder to reach !
Concerning a wheel hub, make the experience to put the car on a jack
and twist the wheel. You will be surprised, the clearance is
probably pretty greater than a thou.
On a mini lathe, the tapered bearings are there more for reducing
the stray movements than to withstand loads. The sole difference I
noticed is that on a wheel hub, the adjustment is very easy because
the inner ring is not pressed in but slipping on the spindle. I
found an explanation for that, please, read my other post.
On 08.02.25 07:05, Ryan H via groups.io
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
My tapered rollers have been in for 10 years. I haven't
touched them in 3 1/2 years since I installed my els. I pulled
the rear when I had the nuts off to install some parts for
that and in the prior 6 1/2 years hadn't done a thing. They're
fine and still as smooth as the day I installed them and maybe
even smoother. ?The preload has never needed adjustment after
a couple days of getting it set and my lathe will hold less
than .001" over 12 inches. We're talking about bearings meant
for vehicle use. Carrying 2 tons and absorbing constant
impacts and lasting tens of thousands of miles. I packed mine
with synthetic bearing grease. It's still there. Our little
lathes turn a couple thousand rpm tops and how often are you
running it wide open? ?And how long are you running it? ?We're
not talking the equivalent of a hundred plus mile a day, five
day a week commute here. We're maybe covering the same as a
hundred miles a year, maybe. ?And at a lot less load. The
angular contact are probably easier to install from what I've
read as there's no need to sand the spindle for the slip fit
tapered rollers require but either will last a lifetime with
extremely minimal if any required maintenance if property
installed.?
|
Re: Dismounting the headstock bearings
No, tapered bearings aren't sealed, see my other post, you'll see
that I'm wondering how to ensure their maintenance. The gear side
might be accessible for oiling when the nuts, the pulley and the
head gear are dismounted but not the chuck side, covers on both
sides.
No, it's in excellent condition, not dry ! Oil is present everywhere
I have access, depending on the manual requirements. The use is
quite light, lower than weekly, 2.5-year old, it's well protected
and permanently, no rust, no dust, no remaining swarf.
On 08.02.25 05:04, Jon Rus via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I am on the fence about ACR vs TR,?
Did you get rubber seals on your
bearings??
Do you oil them regularly??
Maybe 1 drop before each use?
Does oil leak out the bottom of the
bearing or middle of the headstock?
Grease in TR at least is good for a
while, maybe even a year before needing repacking like wheel
bearings.
How are you working with them
day-to-day, project to project??
|
Re: Dismounting the headstock bearings
You're correct but the lathe was delivered with such bearings.
On 08.02.25 04:59, Jon Rus via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I believe the OP has tried to install
tapered roller bearings and can not get the preload just right.?
I could be wrong tho, even very wrong is possible.....
|
Re: Dismounting the headstock bearings
Roy,
I already have tapered bearings but my problem is that they are
mounted tight and I can't manage to reduce the clearance between
them.
On 08.02.25 01:49, Roy via groups.io
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
What this whole thread is overlooking is the fact that the
OEM bearings are deep groove ball bearings; the cheapest option!
An upgrade to angular contact bearings gives more thrust
resistance to the spindle, resulting in the lathe becoming more
rigid. Tapered roller bearings would be the most rigid, but,
sealing them is much more complex.
?
I upgraded mine to angular contact bearings years ago &
have been happy with the results! My preload setting method is
to simply adjust preload for slight heating at full speed.
|
Re: Dismounting the headstock bearings
Hi John.?
?
Yep, my lathe is a two speed one and I have the LMS metal gears in it. To me the gears are pretty quiet. If I grab the chuck and rock it back and forth there's some gear clunk naturally but running I don't find it loud at all. The plastic drive pulley on the motor made a more annoying noise before I swapped it for a metal one... ?But I have to qualify that by saying I think I got a bad plastic gear because it broke within the first few minutes so I didn't really get a chance to get used to the sound of the plastic. Really all I know is the metal gear sound.?
?
I had the headstock off about 4 years ago (so it had been 6 since I'd been in it) when I really aligning everything and the grease I'd put in was still good. I'd used the same moly wheel bearing grease on those parts. I smeared a fresh coat around while I had it off just because but it didn't need it.?
?
Ryan
On Feb 8, 2025 at 1:13?AM -0500, Jon Rus via groups.io <byghtn5@...>, wrote:
Thanks Ryan for your experience and results report
Is your lathe a 2-Speed and are you running metal 2-speed gears as well? How is the gear meshing noise?
TKS, John
On 2/8/2025 1:05 AM, Ryan H via groups.io wrote:
My tapered rollers have been in for 10 years. I haven't touched them in 3 1/2 years since I installed my els. I pulled the rear when I had the nuts off to install some parts for that and in the prior 6 1/2 years hadn't done a thing. They're fine and still as smooth as the day I installed them and maybe even smoother. ?The preload has never needed adjustment after a couple days of getting it set and my lathe will hold less than .001" over 12 inches. We're talking about bearings meant for vehicle use. Carrying 2 tons and absorbing constant impacts and lasting tens of thousands of miles. I packed mine with synthetic bearing grease. It's still there. Our little lathes turn a couple thousand rpm tops and how often are you running it wide open? ?And how long are you running it? ?We're not talking the equivalent of a hundred plus mile a day, five day a week commute here. We're maybe covering the same as a hundred miles a year, maybe. ?And at a lot less load. The angular contact are probably easier to install from what I've read as there's no need to sand the spindle for the slip fit tapered rollers require but either will last a lifetime with extremely minimal if any required maintenance if property installed.?
On Feb 7, 2025 at 11:04?PM -0500, Jon Rus via groups.io <byghtn5@...>, wrote:
I am on the fence about ACR vs TR,?
Did you get rubber seals on your bearings??
Do you oil them regularly??
Maybe 1 drop before each use?
Does oil leak out the bottom of the bearing or middle of the headstock?
Grease in TR at least is good for a while, maybe even a year before needing repacking like wheel bearings.
How are you working with them day-to-day, project to project??
Thanks in advance
John
On 2/7/2025 7:49 PM, Roy via groups.io wrote:
What this whole thread is overlooking is the fact that the OEM bearings are deep groove ball bearings; the cheapest option! An upgrade to angular contact bearings gives more thrust resistance to the spindle, resulting in the lathe becoming more rigid. Tapered roller bearings would be the most rigid, but, sealing them is much more complex.
?
I upgraded mine to angular contact bearings years ago & have been happy with the results! My preload setting method is to simply adjust preload for slight heating at full speed.
?
The only benefit to higher precision bearings in the spindle is reducing wallet weight!?
?
?
|
Re: Dismounting the headstock bearings
Thanks Ryan for your experience and
results report
Is your lathe a 2-Speed and are you
running metal 2-speed gears as well? How is the gear meshing
noise?
TKS, John
On 2/8/2025 1:05 AM, Ryan H via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
My tapered rollers have been in for 10 years. I haven't
touched them in 3 1/2 years since I installed my els. I pulled
the rear when I had the nuts off to install some parts for
that and in the prior 6 1/2 years hadn't done a thing. They're
fine and still as smooth as the day I installed them and maybe
even smoother. ?The preload has never needed adjustment after
a couple days of getting it set and my lathe will hold less
than .001" over 12 inches. We're talking about bearings meant
for vehicle use. Carrying 2 tons and absorbing constant
impacts and lasting tens of thousands of miles. I packed mine
with synthetic bearing grease. It's still there. Our little
lathes turn a couple thousand rpm tops and how often are you
running it wide open? ?And how long are you running it? ?We're
not talking the equivalent of a hundred plus mile a day, five
day a week commute here. We're maybe covering the same as a
hundred miles a year, maybe. ?And at a lot less load. The
angular contact are probably easier to install from what I've
read as there's no need to sand the spindle for the slip fit
tapered rollers require but either will last a lifetime with
extremely minimal if any required maintenance if property
installed.?
On Feb 7, 2025 at 11:04?PM -0500,
Jon Rus via groups.io <byghtn5@...>,
wrote:
I am on the fence about ACR vs
TR,?
Did you get rubber seals on your
bearings??
Do you oil them regularly??
Maybe 1 drop before each use?
Does oil leak out the bottom of
the bearing or middle of the headstock?
Grease in TR at least is good for
a while, maybe even a year before needing repacking like
wheel bearings.
How are you working with them
day-to-day, project to project??
Thanks in advance
John
On 2/7/2025 7:49 PM, Roy via
groups.io wrote:
What this whole thread is overlooking is the fact that
the OEM bearings are deep groove ball bearings; the
cheapest option! An upgrade to angular contact bearings
gives more thrust resistance to the spindle, resulting in
the lathe becoming more rigid. Tapered roller bearings
would be the most rigid, but, sealing them is much more
complex.
?
I upgraded mine to
angular contact bearings years ago & have been
happy with the results! My preload setting
method is to simply adjust preload for slight heating at
full speed.
?
The only benefit to higher precision bearings in the
spindle is reducing wallet weight!?
?
?
|
Re: Dismounting the headstock bearings
My tapered rollers have been in for 10 years. I haven't touched them in 3 1/2 years since I installed my els. I pulled the rear when I had the nuts off to install some parts for that and in the prior 6 1/2 years hadn't done a thing. They're fine and still as smooth as the day I installed them and maybe even smoother. ?The preload has never needed adjustment after a couple days of getting it set and my lathe will hold less than .001" over 12 inches. We're talking about bearings meant for vehicle use. Carrying 2 tons and absorbing constant impacts and lasting tens of thousands of miles. I packed mine with synthetic bearing grease. It's still there. Our little lathes turn a couple thousand rpm tops and how often are you running it wide open? ?And how long are you running it? ?We're not talking the equivalent of a hundred plus mile a day, five day a week commute here. We're maybe covering the same as a hundred miles a year, maybe. ?And at a lot less load. The angular contact are probably easier to install from what I've read as there's no need to sand the spindle for the slip fit tapered rollers require but either will last a lifetime with extremely minimal if any required maintenance if property installed.?
On Feb 7, 2025 at 11:04?PM -0500, Jon Rus via groups.io <byghtn5@...>, wrote:
I am on the fence about ACR vs TR,?
Did you get rubber seals on your bearings??
Do you oil them regularly??
Maybe 1 drop before each use?
Does oil leak out the bottom of the bearing or middle of the headstock?
Grease in TR at least is good for a while, maybe even a year before needing repacking like wheel bearings.
How are you working with them day-to-day, project to project??
Thanks in advance
John
On 2/7/2025 7:49 PM, Roy via groups.io wrote:
What this whole thread is overlooking is the fact that the OEM bearings are deep groove ball bearings; the cheapest option! An upgrade to angular contact bearings gives more thrust resistance to the spindle, resulting in the lathe becoming more rigid. Tapered roller bearings would be the most rigid, but, sealing them is much more complex.
?
I upgraded mine to angular contact bearings years ago & have been happy with the results! My preload setting method is to simply adjust preload for slight heating at full speed.
?
The only benefit to higher precision bearings in the spindle is reducing wallet weight!?
?
?
|
Johannes