I first found part on a Bridgeport mill DRO.
The DRO die and found this part.?
The DRO was new in 1980
A pain to replace.?
Today I would just cut part onto and use power strip.?
It still in my mini lathe so two backups.
Dave?
|
AC is an important subject, and I thank for all input.
Please keep on teaching us:?
Most of us know that the Earth cable (GND)? is important.
However, many (include me) dont have it in the workshop. (it will be fixed soon)
What is the main function of this cable that we connect to a cupper pipe (not steel) or into a cupper plate in the garden?
Is it that wild electricity shall blows the Fuse before it blows me?
Make a better stable AC ?
To be a reference point for what MOV etc. is doing ?
/johannes
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
- MOV failures are usually short circuit, but it depends on how much energy was diverted. If a lightning strike occurs, it is possible for there to be multiple short duration pulses with short repetition times that the MOV will overheat and
crack. In these cases, the MOV is often an open circuit. We have witnessed many failures of MOVs where the MOV split and pieces of the MOV were separated in the equipment housing. Fortunately, none of our MOV failures caught fire, but I have seen examples
where there was heat damage to adjacent components.
- YES, MOVs are used on AC lines. To use them in a DC circuit for anything
- Clamping Voltage is a BIG problem. The claim that devices are designed for 1500V peak voltage when plugged into the grid is completely wrong. There are design specs for 1500V ISOLATION between legs, but that is not the same as handling a 1500V transient.
Buried power distribution helps to reduce the chance that a lightning strike will travel into the building. However, not all power distribution is buried, it is above ground some distance away from where it goes underground and
that is where transient can be injected. To protect against this, the power company has lightning arrestors that they install to protect their equipment (transformers, etc.). This reduces the transient that enter a building, but does not eliminate them.
As for the 40 year old TVS, you think
it is still good, but how do you really know? Have you examined the MOVs? We have seen open circuit MOVs as failures and as such, the light that says it is still working gives a false indication. If you look at the circuit of a three pin MOV, you can see how
failure as an open will allow the third leg to let the indicator still light. The specs you list are the TVS specs, not the specs of the devices plugged into the building power distribution circuit.
On Sat, May 18, 2024 at 7:40?AM Pierre-Raymond Rondelle via
<pierreraymondrondelle= [email protected]> wrote:
1- MOV failure mode is short circuit, not open circuit. Never put such a device on the fridge or a freezer line !
2- Use exclusively MOVs on AC lines
3- Clamping voltage is not a big problem: Electronic devices plugged to the grid are designed for withstanding at least 1500V peak. For indirect shocks on AC lines, typical surge waveform is very short: 8?s rise time & 20?S overall duration and, in home distribution
circuits, it rarely exceeds this value. There are other schemes, depending on the nature of the shock (direct or indirect) and the nature of the upstream protection.
Of course, the earthing circuit is of a prime importance: the the surge path must have a very low stray inductance and its resistance be compliant to the standards.
As a matter of example: At home, located in a quite high keraunic area, all the grid distribution cables are buried and it's a favorable situation. I have a 40y-old 220Vac protection still alive, with 3 varistors (phase-neutral, phase-earth and neutral-hearth)
400V clamping voltage @ 1mA, with a limitation of 700V for a 10Amp shock, 1200V for a 2500A shock, 1400V for 5kA or 1500V for 10kA. Response time is better than 50ns. The device has it's own earth 1m below with a straight cable, the protection is placed at
the head of the distribution cabinet located 5m after the company's counter. my earth ground network resistance is well below 50 Ohms when the soil is dry. Since it's been installed, the standard voltage has been establish to 230V and I didn't see any difference.
I never had any issue for 40 years. It's not the same in my neighborhood !!
Then at the computer level, just because I'm paranoiac (!), i have the same scheme but with 275 V service varistors I replaced the original 250Vac by Chinese components because they were too close to the peak value of the grid voltage. The earth path is shorter
than 1 meter.
Read this:
and for those who can read French Language. This book is very rich hence highly recommended, written both in worker language ans engineer's one ; worth to be translated with
Googletrans.
On 17.05.24 23:43, BuffaloJohn via wrote:
Yes, like I wrote earlier, that is a MOV - Metal Oxide Varistor and they have either two or three leads. The ones with three leads can be used to indicate when the MOV has blown. The ones with two leads are a crapshoot if they are still good, depends how
they failed.
Most surge suppressors use MOVs. The biggest problem with MOVs is that the clamping voltage is really high. A MOV with an AC working voltage of 130VAC has a clamping voltage of over 350V, so you can still blow the electronics out.
--
Buffalo John
|
- MOV failures are usually short circuit, but it depends on how much energy was diverted. If a lightning strike occurs, it is possible for there to be multiple short duration pulses with short repetition times that the MOV will overheat and crack. In these cases, the MOV is often an open circuit. We have witnessed many failures of MOVs where the MOV split and pieces of the MOV were separated in the equipment housing. Fortunately, none of our MOV failures caught fire, but I have seen examples where there was heat damage to adjacent components.
- YES, MOVs are used on AC lines. To use them in a DC circuit for anything
- Clamping Voltage is a BIG problem. The claim that devices are designed for 1500V peak voltage when plugged into the grid is completely wrong. There are design specs for 1500V ISOLATION between legs, but that is not the same as handling a 1500V transient.
Buried power distribution helps to reduce the chance that a lightning strike will travel into the building. However, not all power distribution is buried, it is above ground some distance away from where it goes underground and that is where transient can be injected. To protect against this, the power company has lightning arrestors that they install to protect their equipment (transformers, etc.). This reduces the transient that enter a building, but does not eliminate them.
As for the 40 year old TVS, you think it is still good, but how do you really know? Have you examined the MOVs? We have seen open circuit MOVs as failures and as such, the light that says it is still working gives a false indication. If you look at the circuit of a three pin MOV, you can see how failure as an open will allow the third leg to let the indicator still light. The specs you list are the TVS specs, not the specs of the devices plugged into the building power distribution circuit.
On Sat, May 18, 2024 at 7:40?AM Pierre-Raymond Rondelle via <pierreraymondrondelle= [email protected]> wrote:
1- MOV failure mode is short circuit, not open circuit. Never put
such a device on the fridge or a freezer line !
2- Use exclusively MOVs on AC lines
3- Clamping voltage is not a big problem: Electronic devices plugged
to the grid are designed for withstanding at least 1500V peak. For
indirect shocks on AC lines, typical surge waveform is very short:
8?s rise time & 20?S overall duration and, in home distribution
circuits, it rarely exceeds this value. There are other schemes,
depending on the nature of the shock (direct or indirect) and the
nature of the upstream protection.
Of course, the earthing circuit is of a prime importance: the the
surge path must have a very low stray inductance and its resistance
be compliant to the standards.
As a matter of example: At home, located in a quite high keraunic
area, all the grid distribution cables are buried and it's a
favorable situation. I have a 40y-old 220Vac protection still alive,
with 3 varistors (phase-neutral, phase-earth and neutral-hearth)
400V clamping voltage @ 1mA, with a limitation of 700V for a 10Amp
shock, 1200V for a 2500A shock, 1400V for 5kA or 1500V for 10kA.
Response time is better than 50ns. The device has it's own earth 1m
below with a straight cable, the protection is placed at the head of
the distribution cabinet located 5m after the company's counter. my
earth ground network resistance is well below 50 Ohms when the soil
is dry. Since it's been installed, the standard voltage has been
establish to 230V and I didn't see any difference.
I never had any issue for 40 years. It's not the same in my
neighborhood !!
Then at the computer level, just because I'm paranoiac (!), i have
the same scheme but with 275 V service varistors I replaced the
original 250Vac by Chinese components because they were too close to
the peak value of the grid voltage. The earth path is shorter than 1
meter.
Read this:
and
for those who can read French Language. This book is very rich hence
highly recommended, written both in worker language ans engineer's
one ; worth to be translated with Googletrans.
On 17.05.24 23:43, BuffaloJohn via
wrote:
Yes, like I wrote earlier, that is a MOV - Metal Oxide
Varistor and they have either two or three leads. The ones
with three leads can be used to indicate when the MOV has
blown. The ones with two leads are a crapshoot if they are
still good, depends how they failed.
Most surge suppressors use MOVs. The biggest problem with
MOVs is that the clamping voltage is really high. A MOV with
an AC working voltage of 130VAC has a clamping voltage of over
350V, so you can still blow the electronics out.
--
Buffalo John
|
1- MOV failure mode is short circuit, not open circuit. Never put
such a device on the fridge or a freezer line !
2- Use exclusively MOVs on AC lines
3- Clamping voltage is not a big problem: Electronic devices plugged
to the grid are designed for withstanding at least 1500V peak. For
indirect shocks on AC lines, typical surge waveform is very short:
8?s rise time & 20?S overall duration and, in home distribution
circuits, it rarely exceeds this value. There are other schemes,
depending on the nature of the shock (direct or indirect) and the
nature of the upstream protection.
Of course, the earthing circuit is of a prime importance: the the
surge path must have a very low stray inductance and its resistance
be compliant to the standards.
As a matter of example: At home, located in a quite high keraunic
area, all the grid distribution cables are buried and it's a
favorable situation. I have a 40y-old 220Vac protection still alive,
with 3 varistors (phase-neutral, phase-earth and neutral-hearth)
400V clamping voltage @ 1mA, with a limitation of 700V for a 10Amp
shock, 1200V for a 2500A shock, 1400V for 5kA or 1500V for 10kA.
Response time is better than 50ns. The device has it's own earth 1m
below with a straight cable, the protection is placed at the head of
the distribution cabinet located 5m after the company's counter. my
earth ground network resistance is well below 50 Ohms when the soil
is dry. Since it's been installed, the standard voltage has been
establish to 230V and I didn't see any difference.
I never had any issue for 40 years. It's not the same in my
neighborhood !!
Then at the computer level, just because I'm paranoiac (!), i have
the same scheme but with 275 V service varistors I replaced the
original 250Vac by Chinese components because they were too close to
the peak value of the grid voltage. The earth path is shorter than 1
meter.
Read this:
and
for those who can read French Language. This book is very rich hence
highly recommended, written both in worker language ans engineer's
one ; worth to be translated with Googletrans.
On 17.05.24 23:43, BuffaloJohn via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Yes, like I wrote earlier, that is a MOV - Metal Oxide
Varistor and they have either two or three leads. The ones
with three leads can be used to indicate when the MOV has
blown. The ones with two leads are a crapshoot if they are
still good, depends how they failed.
Most surge suppressors use MOVs. The biggest problem with
MOVs is that the clamping voltage is really high. A MOV with
an AC working voltage of 130VAC has a clamping voltage of over
350V, so you can still blow the electronics out.
|
we had them across the line outputs I believe on all of our
computer filters . Power cord , breaker, filter MOV or maybe it
was on the filter inputs . that was 30 something years back .
animal
On 5/17/24 9:23 PM, davesmith1800
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Fri, May 17, 2024 at 07:32 PM, mike allen wrote:
??? ??? MOV ?
??? animal
On 5/17/24 2:07 PM, davesmith1800
wrote:
Not
the electronic thyristor?
The one I am? talking about looks like a capacitor anx only
has two wires.?
It spell almost same as a thyristor witch is a type SCR.?
Dave?
Metal-Oxide Varistor or (MOV).
You this typical found on board of motor controller of your mini
lathe or other electronics like DRO'S?
Even TVS?
Dave?
|
FYI?
If ever had time where breaker flips or fuse blows when turn the power on electronics.
You may want to check the Varistor is working and not blown.?
Dave?
|
Metal-Oxide Varistor or (MOV).
?This typical found on board of motor controller of your mini lathe or other electronics like DRO'S?
Even TVS?
?
DaveOn Fri, May 17, 2024 at 07:32 PM, mike allen wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
??? ??? MOV ?
??? animal
On 5/17/24 2:07 PM, davesmith1800 wrote:
Not the electronic thyristor?
The one I am? talking about looks like a capacitor anx only has two wires.?
It spell almost same as a thyristor witch is a type SCR.?
Dave?
|
??? ??? MOV ?
??? animal
On 5/17/24 2:07 PM, davesmith1800
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Not the electronic thyristor?
The one I am? talking about looks like a capacitor anx only has
two wires.?
It spell almost same as a thyristor witch is a type SCR.?
Dave?
|
that bag of 100 probably came over a ocean to get to ya . Shit
that I need to be able to count on I prefer that it ca,e from the
island of USA . I don't think that ya can honestly test a system
which ya replaced a thyristor without a Hi-pot machine ? Or maybe
ya can .?
??? That pumped storage hydro sounds like a pretty darn? good
setup ! Thanks for the link .
??? animal
On 5/17/24 2:01 PM, davesmith1800
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I look it up just like a power strip. One time use like a fuse.?
You can see light to till you to replace.??
In electronics it was call a thyristor
Maybe miss spell.??
RadioShack wack me $15.00 each back 1980's.? But I found at some
supply places in bag of 100 about $15.00
Dave?
|
Reminds me of a great Casey Stengel-ism “No one goes there any more, it’s too crowded”
I was actually just reading an Washington Post article about how the California grid operators have the problem that they’re getting too much power back from all the household solar that’s installed. Free gift link??
There’s a bunch of different technologies coming online to capture and store that excess energy, but they haven’t caught up yet.
Stuff like Iron-Air batteries??, and pumped storage hydro?
Those iron air batteries are described as ’the size of a washer-dryer ‘ combo; I wonder how much power they hold? That’s a size that could conceivably work, space-wise to take a home off the grid, coupled with panels on the roof. ? On May 17, 2024, at 3:13 PM, Chris Albertson via groups.io <albertson.chris@...> wrote:
Pocket-change in California. ? Broker commision is $50K and taxes are $30K per year. ? ?
?Ther are no new homes for under $1M, and very hard to find for under $1.5M. ?But still they sell very fast as there are an unlimited number of buyers who can afford it or more. ?Near me by the beach, 3X to 5X higher. ??
Then that $10K upfront investment saves you $100 per month on the electric bill, that is a fast payback and then for the next 15 years you make $100/month profit. ? Most people will opt for a larger system and spend closer to 20K so most of their electric bill is covered.
--?
Bruce Johnson
The less a man knows about how sausages and laws are made, the easier it is to steal his vote and give him botulism.
|
I do buy them often and I only new two wire.
Dave?
|
On May 17, 2024, at 1:41?PM, davesmith1800 via groups.io <davesmith1@...> wrote:
Looks like plugs in every time to place it by a electrician.?
20 years ago that cost $160.00 and hard wire.?
At less price is coming down.?
More pain?
It does not protect against welders only what come from power pole.?
I will stick power strip for my mini lathe.?
The new home cost of solar adds $10,000 per news
Pocket-change in California. ? Broker commision is $50K and taxes are $30K per year. ? ? ?Ther are no new homes for under $1M, and very hard to find for under $1.5M. ?But still they sell very fast as there are an unlimited number of buyers who can afford it or more. ?Near me by the beach, 3X to 5X higher. ??
Then that $10K upfront investment saves you $100 per month on the electric bill, that is a fast payback and then for the next 15 years you make $100/month profit. ? Most people will opt for a larger system and spend closer to 20K so most of their electric bill is covered.
About what is covered? ?A surge protector is wired in PARALLEL to all house wires. ?It is not wired in series. ? So YES, it DOES protect against internally generated surges. ?In fact, placing a 200A protection in your panel box would offer some protection to neighbors who share the same utility pole transformer. ?(limited by resistance in the wires). The device clamps the rails in the box to some maximum voltage. ?It would 100% certain stop the surge from jumping across branch circuits Dave? On Fri, May 17, 2024 at 11:41 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
On May 16, 2024, at 9:49?PM, mike allen via groups.io <animal@...> wrote:
Are those whole house units still only one use ?
?
One use? ? You mean like a fuse? ? No. ?They come with some kind of warranty but likely last forever. ? Link below is to a brand sold at Home Depot. ?It is the plug-in kind and only works with their brand. ? ?Every brand has these and installation is trivial if you have space in the panel. ?Oh, notice the “replace” light. ? I guess it is concievable it might go on after just one direct hit by lightening but more likey it will live in the panel for 30 or 50 years.
?
The OTHER thing that is now required is “combined GFCI arc-fault breakers". ? People hate them because of nuisance trips. ?They cost $100 each and you might need a couple dozen of them. if you are putting in a pen panel. ?They add $1,000 to a typical job. ? But there is no possible way to ever have an electrical fire or electrocution. ?So they are worth the added $1K.
?
As long as we are at it. ?In Calif. all new contruction must have solar panels on the roof.
?
?
animal
On 5/16/24 9:41 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
The “best”? ?The latest electric code (here in the US, the NEC) has taken all the fun out of this. ?All new service entrance panels are required to have “Whole House” surge protection. ?This only applies to newly installed panels in new construction or retrofit. ?But if you are going to worry about protecting stuff, you might as well just do it once
?
These devices are easy to install into an old panel and because they are required, they are available “everywhere”. ? ?Just put one of these in and be done with it and it will cover your TV, computer, power tools, car charger, and whatever.
?
There are two basic kinds, one snaps in like a larger size 220 volt circuit breaker and the other screws into a knockout.
?
OK, but you really wanted a AC-DC-AC system. ?You might be in luck because that is how all brushless motors work. ? There is one of those inside the lathe already if you have a brushless motor
?
But if I am not mistaken, I think all mini lathes use PWM to control the motor. ?If so, then you already have a kind of AC-DC-AC system in from of the lathe's motor.
?
?
On May 16, 2024, at 8:19?PM, Johannes via groups.io <johannes@...> wrote:
What is the best AC protector/stabilator for a 7x14 lathe?
There are many types: one for your computer, one for your fridge.
Full AC-DC-AC is maybe a littlebit luxury?
?
/johannes
?
?
|
Yes, like I wrote earlier, that is a MOV - Metal Oxide Varistor and they have either two or three leads. The ones with three leads can be used to indicate when the MOV has blown. The ones with two leads are a crapshoot if they are still good, depends how they failed.
Most surge suppressors use MOVs. The biggest problem with MOVs is that the clamping voltage is really high. A MOV with an AC working voltage of 130VAC has a clamping voltage of over 350V, so you can still blow the electronics out.
On Fri, May 17, 2024 at 2:21?PM davesmith1800 via <davesmith1= [email protected]> wrote: Found the name varistor.
I was little I hope mini lathe has one or just power strip in is easier to replace.
A varistor (a.k.a. voltage-dependent resistor (VDR)) is a surge protecting electronic component with an electrical resistance that varies with the applied voltage.[2] It has a nonlinear, non-ohmic current–voltage characteristic that is similar to that of a diode. Unlike a diode however, it has the same characteristic for both directions of traversing current. Traditionally, varistors were indeed constructed by connecting two rectifiers, such as the copper-oxide or germanium-oxide rectifier in antiparallel configuration. At low voltage the varistor has a high electrical resistance which decreases as the voltage is raised. Modern varistors are primarily based on sintered ceramic metal-oxide materials which exhibit directional behavior only on a microscopic scale. This type is commonly known as the metal-oxide varistor (MOV).
?
?
Metal-oxide varistor manufactured by Siemens & Halske AG.
--
Buffalo John
|
Found the name varistor. I was little I hope mini lathe has one or just power strip in is easier to replace.  A varistor (a.k.a. voltage-dependent resistor (VDR)) is a surge protecting electronic component with an electrical resistance that varies with the applied voltage.[2] It has a nonlinear, non-ohmic current–voltage characteristic that is similar to that of a diode. Unlike a diode however, it has the same characteristic for both directions of traversing current. Traditionally, varistors were indeed constructed by connecting two rectifiers, such as the copper-oxide or germanium-oxide rectifier in antiparallel configuration. At low voltage the varistor has a high electrical resistance which decreases as the voltage is raised. Modern varistors are primarily based on sintered ceramic metal-oxide materials which exhibit directional behavior only on a microscopic scale. This type is commonly known as the metal-oxide varistor (MOV).
?
?
Metal-oxide varistor manufactured by Siemens & Halske AG.
|
Not the electronic thyristor?
The one I am? talking about looks like a capacitor anx only has two wires.?
It spell almost same as a thyristor witch is a type SCR.?
Dave?
|
I look it up just like a power strip. One time use like a fuse.? You can see light to till you to replace.?? In electronics it was call a thyristor Maybe miss spell.?? RadioShack wack me $15.00 each back 1980's.? But I found at some supply places in bag of 100 about $15.00 Dave? 
|
Looks like plugs in every time to place it by a electrician.?
20 years ago that cost $160.00 and hard wire.?
At less price is coming down.?
More pain?
It does not protect against welders only what come from power pole.?
I will stick power strip for my mini lathe.?
The new home cost of solar adds $10,000 per news
Dave?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Fri, May 17, 2024 at 11:41 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
On May 16, 2024, at 9:49?PM, mike allen via groups.io <animal@...> wrote:
Are those whole house units still only one use ?
?
One use? ? You mean like a fuse? ? No. ?They come with some kind of warranty but likely last forever. ? Link below is to a brand sold at Home Depot. ?It is the plug-in kind and only works with their brand. ? ?Every brand has these and installation is trivial if you have space in the panel. ?Oh, notice the “replace” light. ? I guess it is concievable it might go on after just one direct hit by lightening but more likey it will live in the panel for 30 or 50 years.
?
The OTHER thing that is now required is “combined GFCI arc-fault breakers". ? People hate them because of nuisance trips. ?They cost $100 each and you might need a couple dozen of them. if you are putting in a pen panel. ?They add $1,000 to a typical job. ? But there is no possible way to ever have an electrical fire or electrocution. ?So they are worth the added $1K.
?
As long as we are at it. ?In Calif. all new contruction must have solar panels on the roof.
?
?
animal
On 5/16/24 9:41 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
The “best”? ?The latest electric code (here in the US, the NEC) has taken all the fun out of this. ?All new service entrance panels are required to have “Whole House” surge protection. ?This only applies to newly installed panels in new construction or retrofit. ?But if you are going to worry about protecting stuff, you might as well just do it once
?
These devices are easy to install into an old panel and because they are required, they are available “everywhere”. ? ?Just put one of these in and be done with it and it will cover your TV, computer, power tools, car charger, and whatever.
?
There are two basic kinds, one snaps in like a larger size 220 volt circuit breaker and the other screws into a knockout.
?
OK, but you really wanted a AC-DC-AC system. ?You might be in luck because that is how all brushless motors work. ? There is one of those inside the lathe already if you have a brushless motor
?
But if I am not mistaken, I think all mini lathes use PWM to control the motor. ?If so, then you already have a kind of AC-DC-AC system in from of the lathe's motor.
?
?
On May 16, 2024, at 8:19?PM, Johannes via groups.io <johannes@...> wrote:
What is the best AC protector/stabilator for a 7x14 lathe?
There are many types: one for your computer, one for your fridge.
Full AC-DC-AC is maybe a littlebit luxury?
?
/johannes
?
?
|
That Square D unit is a MOV device and whether it is single use or so is dependant on the surge it handled. There is a lamp on the from which will indicate it must be replaced as the MOVs are shot.
I spent a lot of time working on surge protection in a prior life and _all_ MOV (Metal Oxide Varistor) devices will have a lifetime based on the number of surges it has handled. The more and the higher the surges, the shorter the life.
We ended up using a different device:
They are not cheap, but we were installing them in places where we had lots of lightning and we had cameras up on metal poles. Just the voltage gradient of the storm cloud was enough to blow up equipment and a strike was enhanced because we had metal poles 30ft into the air.
MOV suppressors lasted only partially through a storm and then you had to buy a new one and sometimes replace the gear on the pole. The Brick Wall units lasted for years and we didn't ever have a failure from them.
HOWEVER, it you want to protect your lathe or mill or any other shop equipment, a power strip with MOVs will usually and reliably do the job. And, I like that it has a dedicated switch which makes me have an extra step to make sure I have started up safely.
On Fri, May 17, 2024 at 11:41?AM Chris Albertson via <albertson.chris= [email protected]> wrote:
Are those whole house units still only one use ?
One use? ? You mean like a fuse? ? No.? They come with some kind of warranty but likely last forever. ? Link below is to a brand sold at Home Depot.? It is the plug-in kind and only works with their brand. ? ?Every brand has these and installation is trivial if you have space in the panel.? Oh, notice the “replace” light. ? I guess it is concievable it might go on after just one direct hit by lightening but more likey it will live in the panel for 30 or 50 years.
The OTHER thing that is now required is “combined GFCI arc-fault breakers". ? People hate them because of nuisance trips.? They cost $100 each and you might need a couple dozen of them. if you are putting in a pen panel.? They add $1,000 to a typical job. ? But there is no possible way to ever have an electrical fire or electrocution.? So they are worth the added $1K.
As long as we are at it.? In Calif. all new contruction must have solar panels on the roof.
|
davesmith1800
Johannes
BuffaloJohn