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Re: AC Voltage


 

  1. MOV failures are usually short circuit, but it depends on how much energy was diverted. If a lightning strike occurs, it is possible for there to be multiple short duration pulses with short repetition times that the MOV will overheat and crack. In these cases, the MOV is often an open circuit. We have witnessed many failures of MOVs where the MOV split and pieces of the MOV were separated in the equipment housing. Fortunately, none of our MOV failures caught fire, but I have seen examples where there was heat damage to adjacent components.
  2. YES, MOVs are used on AC lines. To use them in a DC circuit for anything
  3. Clamping Voltage is a BIG problem. The claim that devices are designed for 1500V peak voltage when plugged into the grid is completely wrong. There are design specs for 1500V ISOLATION between legs, but that is not the same as handling a 1500V transient.
Buried power distribution helps to reduce the chance that a lightning strike will travel into the building. However, not all power distribution is buried, it is above ground some distance away from where it goes underground and that is where transient can be injected. To protect against this, the power company has lightning arrestors that they install to protect their equipment (transformers, etc.). This reduces the transient that enter a building, but does not eliminate them.

As for the 40 year old TVS, you think it is still good, but how do you really know? Have you examined the MOVs? We have seen open circuit MOVs as failures and as such, the light that says it is still working gives a false indication. If you look at the circuit of a three pin MOV, you can see how failure as an open will allow the third leg to let the indicator still light. The specs you list are the TVS specs, not the specs of the devices plugged into the building power distribution circuit.

On Sat, May 18, 2024 at 7:40?AM Pierre-Raymond Rondelle via <pierreraymondrondelle=[email protected]> wrote:

1- MOV failure mode is short circuit, not open circuit. Never put such a device on the fridge or a freezer line !

2- Use exclusively MOVs on AC lines

3- Clamping voltage is not a big problem: Electronic devices plugged to the grid are designed for withstanding at least 1500V peak. For indirect shocks on AC lines, typical surge waveform is very short: 8?s rise time & 20?S overall duration and, in home distribution circuits, it rarely exceeds this value. There are other schemes, depending on the nature of the shock (direct or indirect) and the nature of the upstream protection.
Of course, the earthing circuit is of a prime importance: the the surge path must have a very low stray inductance and its resistance be compliant to the standards.

As a matter of example: At home, located in a quite high keraunic area, all the grid distribution cables are buried and it's a favorable situation. I have a 40y-old 220Vac protection still alive, with 3 varistors (phase-neutral, phase-earth and neutral-hearth) 400V clamping voltage @ 1mA, with a limitation of 700V for a 10Amp shock, 1200V for a 2500A shock, 1400V for 5kA or 1500V for 10kA. Response time is better than 50ns. The device has it's own earth 1m below with a straight cable, the protection is placed at the head of the distribution cabinet located 5m after the company's counter. my earth ground network resistance is well below 50 Ohms when the soil is dry. Since it's been installed, the standard voltage has been establish to 230V and I didn't see any difference.
I never had any issue for 40 years. It's not the same in my neighborhood !!

Then at the computer level, just because I'm paranoiac (!), i have the same scheme but with 275 V service varistors I replaced the original 250Vac by Chinese components because they were too close to the peak value of the grid voltage. The earth path is shorter than 1 meter.

Read this:
and for those who can read French Language. This book is very rich hence highly recommended, written both in worker language ans engineer's one ; worth to be translated with Googletrans.


On 17.05.24 23:43, BuffaloJohn via wrote:
Yes, like I wrote earlier, that is a MOV - Metal Oxide Varistor and they have either two or three leads. The ones with three leads can be used to indicate when the MOV has blown. The ones with two leads are a crapshoot if they are still good, depends how they failed.

Most surge suppressors use MOVs. The biggest problem with MOVs is that the clamping voltage is really high. A MOV with an AC working voltage of 130VAC has a clamping voltage of over 350V, so you can still blow the electronics out.


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Buffalo John

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