how to square vertical cutting table?
The recent messages on vertical cutting tables reminded me I need to fix mine to be able to use it properly. Hopefully the attached photos come through with this message.
The top of the blade guide holder that the table screws to is not square to the blade, therefore the table isn't square and is frustrating to use. I have to muck round packing one side to get it square and can't be bothered using it.
My main question: is this a manufacturing fault or is there something out of adjustment that I'm missing.
I know my options to solve this, if it is a manufacturing fault, are:
- making a table with the correct packer welded in place.
- making a table frame that locks into the saw work clamp.
I just wanted to check before I attack the project that the problem has other solutions I hadn't considered.
Thanks and have a wonderful day.
Steve
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Re: How to measure 4 x 6 bandsaw alignment
Hi The way to measure the alignment is laid out on pg4&5 of in "Buying a used 4x6 Bandsaw" in the files section of this site, /g/4x6bandsaw/files/Buying%20a%20Used%204x6%20Bandsaw%20v4.pdf?. It is along the lines of November -X-ray's method? method but uses 1x4" joinery timber and give a measurement of how far out of square it is and a standard for what is good enough. Unfortunately it doesn't say how to adjust it once you find it needs adjustment, that's another story which can be told if you wish. Cutting square horizontally across a workpiece and square vertically down through the workpiece are controlled by different set-ups (though they overlap in one crucial area).? Horizontal squareness is easy to get, but vertical squareness can be tricky unless you're aware of all the influences, but once you understand (as with most things) its reasonably simple - jv
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Re: How to measure 4 x 6 bandsaw alignment
I put a square to in, both axes.
If I can¡¯t see daylight anywhere between the stock and the square, I call it a party!
?
Other Bill
?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of dpidwerbecki@...
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2020 10:06 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [4x6bandsaw] How to measure 4 x 6 bandsaw alignment
?
I am new to this group and I just purchased my first 4 x 6 band saw.? ?I purchased a fairly old band saw and I'm going through it to make it work right.? ?The band saw is quite old, I think.? ?It has a green paint, made in Taiwan, has no maker mark, and
I believe, from the serial number, it could have been made in about 1983.? ?I welded a new blade for it, cleaned it up, rewired the motor (now a Dayton 1/3 HP motor) so t is running the correct direction, changed the gear box oil, and adjusted the main pulleys,
non moving vise jaw, and blade guides it so it will cut true.? I also have been trying to adjust the down feed tension spring and realize that I need to make a hydraulic down feed.
QUESTION:? How do you measure "cut true?"? ?I have been doing the following:
1.? Cut a small piece of 1" diameter low carbon steel bar.
2.? Rotate the bar and cut another piece
3.? Measure the thickness of the piece multiple locations around the bar with a micrometer
4.? Subtract the minimum reading from the maximum reading.
I have measured max-min thickness of about 0.005" on my 1" bar sample.? ?The main source of the variation is due to misalignment between the two blade alignment guides. I think that this can be improved by having a hydraulic down feed.? I am also thinking of
removing the flimsy legs and mounting the saw on a shop cart which has two trays below the saw for metal storage.
Is this how you measure "cut true" on your saw?
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Re: How to measure 4 x 6 bandsaw alignment
Another way to measure it is to get a piece of hardwood in a larger size, 4 x 4 or 3 x 3 also works, and square the vice to the blade and make a cut then rotate the wood 180 degrees and make another cut. This will show you the vertical misalignment faster than waiting on a piece of steel to be cut and is quite accurate for what it¡¯s worth.
Of course your mileage may vary!
Good Luck.
On Monday, September 21, 2020, 12:53:40 PM CDT, dpidwerbecki@... <dpidwerbecki@...> wrote:
I am new to this group and I just purchased my first 4 x 6 band saw.? ?I purchased a fairly old band saw and I'm going through it to make it work right.? ?The band saw is quite old, I think.? ?It has a green paint, made in Taiwan, has no maker mark, and I believe, from the serial number, it could have been made in about 1983.? ?I welded a new blade for it, cleaned it up, rewired the motor (now a Dayton 1/3 HP motor) so t is running the correct direction, changed the gear box oil, and adjusted the main pulleys, non moving vise jaw, and blade guides it so it will cut true.? I also have been trying to adjust the down feed tension spring and realize that I need to make a hydraulic down feed.
QUESTION:? How do you measure "cut true?"? ?I have been doing the following:
1.? Cut a small piece of 1" diameter low carbon steel bar.
2.? Rotate the bar and cut another piece
3.? Measure the thickness of the piece multiple locations around the bar with a micrometer
4.? Subtract the minimum reading from the maximum reading.
I have measured max-min thickness of about 0.005" on my 1" bar sample.? ?The main source of the variation is due to misalignment between the two blade alignment guides. I think that this can be improved by having a hydraulic down feed.? I am also thinking of removing the flimsy legs and mounting the saw on a shop cart which has two trays below the saw for metal storage.
Is this how you measure "cut true" on your saw?
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Re: How to measure 4 x 6 bandsaw alignment
I took a 2¡± diameter piece and faced it in my mini lathe and then took a slice and measured around like you did. I used the magnet and 6¡± square on the blade against a 1-2-3 to get vertical alignment, also used the 1-2-3 block against the solid jaw for horizontal alignment. I got it to +/- .003 around the cut disk.
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How to measure 4 x 6 bandsaw alignment
I am new to this group and I just purchased my first 4 x 6 band saw.? ?I purchased a fairly old band saw and I'm going through it to make it work right.? ?The band saw is quite old, I think.? ?It has a green paint, made in Taiwan, has no maker mark, and I believe, from the serial number, it could have been made in about 1983.? ?I welded a new blade for it, cleaned it up, rewired the motor (now a Dayton 1/3 HP motor) so t is running the correct direction, changed the gear box oil, and adjusted the main pulleys, non moving vise jaw, and blade guides it so it will cut true.? I also have been trying to adjust the down feed tension spring and realize that I need to make a hydraulic down feed.
QUESTION:? How do you measure "cut true?"? ?I have been doing the following:
1.? Cut a small piece of 1" diameter low carbon steel bar.
2.? Rotate the bar and cut another piece
3.? Measure the thickness of the piece multiple locations around the bar with a micrometer
4.? Subtract the minimum reading from the maximum reading.
I have measured max-min thickness of about 0.005" on my 1" bar sample.? ?The main source of the variation is due to misalignment between the two blade alignment guides. I think that this can be improved by having a hydraulic down feed.? I am also thinking of removing the flimsy legs and mounting the saw on a shop cart which has two trays below the saw for metal storage.
Is this how you measure "cut true" on your saw?
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Re: What is the best size and purpose for you to use a vertical cutting table?
Henry, I love the table held in the vice, no assembly required just put it in the vice, use the?table? then loosen the vice and remove the table
On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 8:57 AM Steve Fikar < sfikar@...> wrote: I would estimate 20% of the time I cut longer stock and,. like I said, in those cases I use a roller stand or something similar to support the ends. Given the overall size of this saw I would not change the size of my table if I had to do it over again. I'm very happy with it.
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Re: What is the best size and purpose for you to use a vertical cutting table?
I would estimate 20% of the time I cut longer stock and,. like I said, in those cases I use a roller stand or something similar to support the ends. Given the overall size of this saw I would not change the size of my table if I had to do it over again. I'm very happy with it.
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Re: What is the best size and purpose for you to use a vertical cutting table?
Hi, Steve:
Appreciate your share, with drawing is perfectly understand the size, do you cut longer stock very often? or just occasionally? if you can let me know the rough percentage will be perfect, tks!
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Re: What is the best size and purpose for you to use a vertical cutting table?
Henry, ? The existing approximately 9¡± x 9¡± is probably OK.? General usage would be to hand-saw small parts out of sheet or plate. ? However, the flexibility in one plane would not be acceptable.? The ideal solution would be to make the table from die-cast aluminum.? However, that would be quite a bit more expensive.? ? But the flexibility of the steel plate version is easily fixed by making the un-bent plate a little longer and bending the front and rear ends down 90 degrees to match the two sides that are already done that way.? This would add four punch operations to remove a small rectangle from each corner and then two brake operations to bend the ends down.? And it would be slightly stiffer if you welded just the tips of the sides and ends together. ? The other improvement would be to make the brace that attaches the rear of the table to the saw frame from steel angle stock instead of bar.? This would be much stiffer. ? Robert Downs ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Henry
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2020 22:56
To: [email protected]
Subject: [4x6bandsaw] What is the best size and purpose for you to use a vertical cutting table?? [Edited Message Follows] As the subject says, we are small bandsaw maker from Taiwan and just wondering what will be the best size and purpose for all of you to use the vertical cutting table? Below is the current design for our product RF-128, it is not so perfect for normal users like you guys, some of customer even says it is too soft, just a thin plate looks like funny thing...
Size is about 24x24cm, a black color of thin plate install on the roller guide
Support unit is underneath
A bit curved if slight push it or have any small loading
We would like to know what is your ideal dimension for this table?? and what tasks you often to do with this vertical table? Share with us your comments here!! Appreciate~~
#vertical table
#RF-128 Vertical cutting
#Vertical cutting table
#4x6 vertical cutting
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Re: What is the best size and purpose for you to use a vertical cutting table?
I converted my saw to vertical use only and my table is permanently mounted. Because of that I placed the slot in front for blade removal. I use my saw for mostly cutting parts easily held by hand. I do use it to cut longer stock. I just use something to support the ends as needed. The table itself is 3/8" steel plate with a short apron on the sides, giving it the look and feel of small cast iron table if one might have been manufactured for such a saw.?
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What is the best size and purpose for you to use a vertical cutting table?
As the subject says, we are small bandsaw maker from Taiwan and just wondering what will be the best size and purpose for all of you to use the vertical cutting table? Below is the current design for our product RF-128, it is not so perfect for normal users like you guys, some of customer even says it is too soft, just a thin plate looks like funny thing...
Size is about 24x24cm, a black color of thin plate install on the roller guide
Support unit is underneath
A bit curved if slight push it or have any small loading
We would like to know what is your ideal dimension for this table?? and what tasks you often to do with this vertical table? Share with us your comments here!! Appreciate~~
#vertical table
#RF-128 Vertical cutting
#Vertical cutting table
#4x6 vertical cutting
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Re: Replacement blade guide bearings
Hi Terry ?I can tell from the pictures/drawings it's not a Rong Fu or an RF clone (the major manufacturer at the time), the base casting and fixed vice jaw styles are way different. The manual is also very different from Rong?Fu and pretty good layout for 1983 despite the terrible English.? 3/4HP from an era when they didn't lie about motor HP means its more powerful than most by todays standard. (1HP HF motor will be somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 HP - they quote input power not output!) It could be a good one if it's made well.? The use of quality tools in the adjustment section hopefully points in that direction - jv?
John, many thanks for the information, and thanks for the previous post with the table of replacement blade guide bearings. I've just been able to begin looking into this machine, which sat unused for some number of years. The blade guide bearings were initially rather stiff and had some rust/gunk so I started to disassemble with the idea of replacing the bearings.
The rear guide bearings measure as one on your chart, Bearing code 608Z. That's the good news. The side guides are needle bearings, which I didn't realize as I was pressing them off the adjustment bolts. One bearing is fixed and the other one is on an eccentric bolt to adjust the width. Is that the same on other models? Unfortunately as I pushed one apart, it separated and I managed to lose one of the needles so I am searching for replacement needle bearings now.
As a reminder, this is Model HBS-0348, without any company identification, Serial #000756 Mfg Date 1983. Is anyone aware of other similar saws with needle bearings for the side guide-rollers? The OD is only 22mm, and that is an outer sleeve on the needle bearings which are about? 17mm, and width of 12mm, so smaller dia and wider width than what's listed in the table provided by John Vreede. I will look for a suitable ball bearing replacement as I assume that would be a reasonable substitute.
Regards, Terry Lund
Sorry Terry, I didn't think that you may have been asking for a brand name.
TSL>Thanks, John, I was mainly intending to post a "new member, first post" but goofed and did not modify the Subject. Thanks for the information on bearings as I might well need that when I get to work cleaning up and checking out the new acquisition.?
I have a similar problem with my 1987 Taiwanese bandsaw.? It has a manual that just give the model number 'UC115'? and nothing else.
I learned that it was probably made by one of the major manufacturers as a house brand for another exporter from Taiwan.? Yours may be similar.
Can you scan your manual and post it in the Files section of this site and I'll compare it to my manual's Jinglish.? It may prove to be of a similar make. - jv
TSL>I've uploaded a scanned copy to the Files section, HorizVert-Band-Saw-Circa-1983.pdf
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Re: Replacement blade guide bearings
My saw that I got in '83 is identical to posted pics. Brand is Fairbanks Ward USA [made in Taiwan]. On-off switch broke in first fire up. Motor got really hot for a while but has cooled down over the years , original belt and guide bearings. $188.95, don't remember shipping.
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Re: Replacement blade guide bearings
Hi Terry ?I can tell from the pictures/drawings it's not a Rong Fu or an RF clone (the major manufacturer at the time), the base casting and fixed vice jaw styles are way different. The manual is also very different from Rong?Fu and pretty good layout for 1983 despite the terrible English.? 3/4HP from an era when they didn't lie about motor HP means its more powerful than most by todays standard. (1HP HF motor will be somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 HP - they quote input power not output!) It could be a good one if it's made well.? The use of quality tools in the adjustment section hopefully points in that direction - jv?
Sorry Terry, I didn't think that you may have been asking for a brand name.
TSL>Thanks, John, I was mainly intending to post a "new member, first post" but goofed and did not modify the Subject. Thanks for the information on bearings as I might well need that when I get to work cleaning up and checking out the new acquisition.?
I have a similar problem with my 1987 Taiwanese bandsaw.? It has a manual that just give the model number 'UC115'? and nothing else.
I learned that it was probably made by one of the major manufacturers as a house brand for another exporter from Taiwan.? Yours may be similar.
Can you scan your manual and post it in the Files section of this site and I'll compare it to my manual's Jinglish.? It may prove to be of a similar make. - jv
TSL>I've uploaded a scanned copy to the Files section, HorizVert-Band-Saw-Circa-1983.pdf
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Re: Replacement blade guide bearings
Sorry Terry, I didn't think that you may have been asking for a brand name.
TSL>Thanks, John, I was mainly intending to post a "new member, first post" but goofed and did not modify the Subject. Thanks for the information on bearings as I might well need that when I get to work cleaning up and checking out the new acquisition.?
I have a similar problem with my 1987 Taiwanese bandsaw.? It has a manual that just give the model number 'UC115'? and nothing else.
I learned that it was probably made by one of the major manufacturers as a house brand for another exporter from Taiwan.? Yours may be similar.
Can you scan your manual and post it in the Files section of this site and I'll compare it to my manual's Jinglish.? It may prove to be of a similar make. - jv
TSL>I've uploaded a scanned copy to the Files section, HorizVert-Band-Saw-Circa-1983.pdf
_._,_._,_
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File /HorizVert-Band-Saw-Circa-1983.pdf uploaded
#file-notice
The following files have been uploaded to
the Files area of the [email protected] group.
By: Terry Lund
Description:
Generic Bandsaw Mfg 1983, Serial # 000756 Made in Taiwan. Omitted scanning p 2 Safety Rules for All Tools and pp 19-20 "cartoonish" Safety Rules for Stationary Power Tools. I can scan those if anybody needs them for a complete copy.
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Re: Replacement blade guide bearings
Sorry Terry, I didn't think that you may have been asking for a brand name.
I have a similar problem with my 1987 Taiwanese bandsaw.? It has a manual that just give the model number 'UC115'? and nothing else.
I learned that it was probably made by one of the major manufacturers as a house brand for another exporter from Taiwan.? Yours may be similar.
Can you scan your manual and post it in the Files section of this site and I'll compare it to my manual's Jinglish.? It may prove to be of a similar make. - jv
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Re: Replacement blade guide bearings
Hi Terry
I presume from the header you need new guide bearings.
All Taiwanese and Chinese manufactured saws have metric bearing sizes even if they have UNC threads on their (metric headed) bolts. Some early American made saws had special bearings with a flange on the outer race instead of a rear guide-roller and some had cam-follower bearings, these may have been inch sizes.
The following metric size deep groove ball bearings have been used:
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Inside Diameter
(mm)
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Outside
Diameter
(mm)
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Width
(mm)
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?±õ²Ô³Ù¡¯±ô.
Bearing code
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Preferred
Radial Internal Clearance grade
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Comment
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5
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16
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5
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625
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MC3
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as rear guide-roller
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8
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22
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7
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608
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MC3
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as rear guide-roller
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9
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26
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8
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629
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MC3
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as rear & side guide-rollers
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10
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26
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8
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6000
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CM or Normal
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as side guides on later saws
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10
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30
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9
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6200
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CM or Normal
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most popular, esp up to y2000 from Taiwan
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12
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32
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10
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6201
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CM or Normal
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only some older saws
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?These bearings are used at v.low speed and low load, so the ABEC rating is not applicable, however the Radial Internal Clearance grading should be considered.
Just measure the bearings ID, OD and Width and pick out the ones you need - jv
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Re: Replacement blade guide bearings
I just got a bandsaw at a tool sale Model HBS-348, Serial #000756, MFG Date 1983, but no brand identification I can see. The Instruction Manual came with it, but that document has no mention of any company name or address. it's written in rather broken English. This seems to be a fairly early model of what Carey Culpepper wrote about.
Regards,
Terry Lund
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John Vreede
Steve Fikar
Henry
Terry Lund
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