MORE ON: MARKLIN STEAMERS AND ROKUHAN TURNOUTS
After this thread first appeared, I queried the Nn3 Group during one of our semi-monthly Zoom conferences. One of the UK members of that Group encountered issues with some of this Marklin steamers. He did some checking and found the back-to-back wheel dimension on these was "tight". He widened this out to 5.2+mm and had no further problems with them running through Rokuhan turnouts. The NMRA Standard S4.2 lists 5.28mm as back-to-back for Nn3 and 5.44 for Z. Not sure why the difference. I was part of the NMRA Technical Committee that came up with the Nn3 standards in the 1970's, realistically recognizing that for most modelers "Nn3" was only practical utilizing Marklin Z components. I did not participate in the development of the Z standards.
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Tom K. NMRA MMR#101
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Moin. Thomas Habrik hints to the reference about advertisment and merchandising articles. M?rklins standard programm inclusive MHI- and one-time-series is documented in "Collection M?rklin Spur Z" by Thomas Zeeb published by Modellplan (yes, the company which offers the "M?rkin-official" planning software). It is availlable as database on CD-ROM (annually updated) and as printed book (until 2015). German language. Unfortunately Thomas Zeeb passed away in his fifties last September. So it is not clear, how the future is of "Collection M?rklin Spur Z". But the first 50 years are completly listed. GreetZ Arnim Am 19.03.22 um 02:37 schrieb Kian Holstead via groups.io: I'm looking for a document of sorts that lists all Marklin products since 1973-ish when they started. Not the glossy catalog that we get each. On that topic that's a lot of paper. They should go digital.
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Koll's Catalogue was the first more or less complete overview on M?rklin Z
It was my base to start from.
Later the Miba List was created which went into Gilles Monk's list and than into Illegems big book.
https://www.amazon.de/Kolls-Preis-Katalog-M%C3%A4rklin-Spur-Z/dp/3922164676
https://www.amazon.de/Kolls-Preiskatalog-Liebhaberpreise-Zubeh%C3%B6r-Eisenbahnsammeln/dp/392216465X
I would not spend so much money on the Kolls Catalogue. It's old.
Thomas
Von meinem/meiner Galaxy gesendet
-------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht -------- Von: Malcolm Cleaveland <mcleavel@...> Datum: 20.03.22 23:52 (GMT+01:00) Betreff: Re: [z-scale] Z scale Catalogue
Friends,
I recently spent $18.98 for Walthers' 2022 HO-N-Z Reference Book.? DON'T, if you are interested in Z scale.? There are only 6 pages, mostly devoted to? Faller, Kibri, Preiser and Vollmer.? THEY DO NOT EVEN MENTION Maerklin or AZL.? There is one column
(out of 5) on the 4th page about Micro-Trains Line that just shows 7 freight cars, no locomotives or passenger cars.? Anyone who bought this book wanting to find the status of Z scale would be completely deceived.?
I compared the above to Walthers' 2012 N & Z Reference Book.? There were 23 pages devoted?to Z scale.? Maerklin was represented on four full pages, AZL on two and MTL on two.? There was a good mix of U.S. and European companies on the other 15 pages.?
All in all, a reasonable presentation of the status of Z scale in 2012.?
I have demanded a refund from the Walthers CEO and an explanation of how such a ludicrous representation of the status of Z scale could be included in a so-called "Reference Book".? I also sent copies of the 6 pages and my analysis to the NMRA,
Model Railroader magazine, Micro-Trains and Ztrack.? My certified mail receipt has been returned but there has been no response yet from Walthers.?
Malcolm Cleaveland, Ph.D. ?? LTC USAR (Ret.)
Professor Emeritus of Geosciences
University of Arkansas - Fayetteville
MCZ Models
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Friends,
I recently spent $18.98 for Walthers' 2022 HO-N-Z Reference Book.? DON'T, if you are interested in Z scale.? There are only 6 pages, mostly devoted to? Faller, Kibri, Preiser and Vollmer.? THEY DO NOT EVEN MENTION Maerklin or AZL.? There is one column
(out of 5) on the 4th page about Micro-Trains Line that just shows 7 freight cars, no locomotives or passenger cars.? Anyone who bought this book wanting to find the status of Z scale would be completely deceived.?
I compared the above to Walthers' 2012 N & Z Reference Book.? There were 23 pages devoted?to Z scale.? Maerklin was represented on four full pages, AZL on two and MTL on two.? There was a good mix of U.S. and European companies on the other 15 pages.?
All in all, a reasonable presentation of the status of Z scale in 2012.?
I have demanded a refund from the Walthers CEO and an explanation of how such a ludicrous representation of the status of Z scale could be included in a so-called "Reference Book".? I also sent copies of the 6 pages and my analysis to the NMRA,
Model Railroader magazine, Micro-Trains and Ztrack.? My certified mail receipt has been returned but there has been no response yet from Walthers.?
Malcolm Cleaveland, Ph.D. ?? LTC USAR (Ret.)
Professor Emeritus of Geosciences
University of Arkansas - Fayetteville
MCZ Models
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You are welcome.
My collection cannot compete with Gilles' But at least tank cars (8612, 8626) and sliding door (8657) cars are almost complete. And all standard catalogue items which are running in or thru Switzerland in reality.
S = special cars (Sonderwagen). Produced by Marklin as advertising cars for companies.?
The standard catalogue items are easy to get. The special cars are more difficult.
I know what you mean regarding your wife. I do the same. The boxes are very small so easy to hide ;-)
Enjoy our hobby, the world has enough problems!
Thomas
Von meinem/meiner Galaxy gesendet
-------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht -------- Von: "Kian Holstead via groups.io" <kianholstead@...> Datum: 20.03.22 19:31 (GMT+01:00) Betreff: Re: [z-scale] Z scale Catalogue
Thomas, This is exactly what I was looking for. What a project for him to have taken on. I'm not sure what the S designation is. But plenty of information here.? Thanks much. My goal is to catalog my collection. I usually have about ten new items each year (my wife is only shown one or two...we all know what I'm talking about). My display cases are getting full. All my trains are either on the layout or displayed in my Zthex cases. I don't get keeping them in boxes. These trains are a masterpiece to be seen. Zthex display cases are the best cases you could buy. They are out of production. However, a few were on sale by someone selling them on ebay. They sold at least 80% off the original price. I snagged one without a second look. But I digress. Again thanks for this information.
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Thomas,
This is exactly what I was looking for.
What a project for him to have taken on. I'm not sure what the S designation is. But plenty of information here.?
Thanks much. My goal is to catalog my collection. I usually have about ten new items each year (my wife is only shown one or two...we all know what I'm talking about).
My display cases are getting full. All my trains are either on the layout or displayed in my Zthex cases. I don't get keeping them in boxes. These trains are a masterpiece to be seen. Zthex display cases are the best cases you could buy. They are out of production. However, a few were on sale by someone selling them on ebay. They sold at least 80% off the original price. I snagged one without a second look. But I digress.
Again thanks for this information.
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Mark,
I'm just interested in Marklin items. Marklin has to have something. Appreciate the links. I'll dive in and see what I find.
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there is a complete list of all Z items
Joris Illegems produced the catalogue based largely on the collection of Gilles Monk.
Z Friends continued the list. Link:?https://www.z-freunde-international.de/index.php/sammler-seite.html
Unfortunately the page is only in German.
regards Thomas
Von meinem/meiner Galaxy gesendet
-------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht -------- Von: "Mark H." <markh3326@...> Datum: 19.03.22 12:07 (GMT+01:00) Betreff: Re: [z-scale] Z scale Catalogue
Hello KIan,
I am not aware of an all inclusive digital catalog, but someone may correct me on that.
There are so many Z items, both Marklin and non-Marklin that it would be?an enormous project to gather all that together.
Having said that, there have been and are some impressive efforts.
Try these places:
of course:? ?
I have been negligent and procrastinating, but I am trying to add my collection of pictures and simple info to help here:
(Its just finding the time... sheesh...LOL)
And my collection pages:
Hope that helps with a start.
Cheers,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 9:37 PM Kian Holstead via <kianholstead= [email protected]> wrote: I'm looking for a document of sorts that lists all Marklin products since 1973-ish when they started. Not the glossy catalog that we get each. On that topic that's a lot of paper. They should go digital.
So does anyone know how to get this? Stacy at Marklin is coming up empty. You'd think Marklin has something like this. Cars, sets, loco's, etc.
Appreciate the help.
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Hello KIan,
I am not aware of an all inclusive digital catalog, but someone may correct me on that.
There are so many Z items, both Marklin and non-Marklin that it would be?an enormous project to gather all that together.
Having said that, there have been and are some impressive efforts.
Try these places:
of course:? ?
I have been negligent and procrastinating, but I am trying to add my collection of pictures and simple info to help here:
(Its just finding the time... sheesh...LOL)
And my collection pages:
Hope that helps with a start.
Cheers,
On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 9:37 PM Kian Holstead via <kianholstead= [email protected]> wrote: I'm looking for a document of sorts that lists all Marklin products since 1973-ish when they started. Not the glossy catalog that we get each. On that topic that's a lot of paper. They should go digital.
So does anyone know how to get this? Stacy at Marklin is coming up empty. You'd think Marklin has something like this. Cars, sets, loco's, etc.
Appreciate the help.
|
I'm looking for a document of sorts that lists all Marklin products since 1973-ish when they started. Not the glossy catalog that we get each. On that topic that's a lot of paper. They should go digital.
So does anyone know how to get this? Stacy at Marklin is coming up empty. You'd think Marklin has something like this. Cars, sets, loco's, etc.
Appreciate the help.
|
Re: MARKLIN STEAMERS AND ROKUHAN TURNOUTS
Most of my turnouts are straight and and have straight tracks leading into them. This is happening so matter which way the points are thrown. The pilots on the two are the single axel but I haven't noticed them having issues as they go into the turnout. They appear to be lined up ok when the engine gets hung up.
I like the idea of the washer. The tiny bent metal piece designed to hold it down only goes so far and I have had issues with it riding up the rails in curves though it's not every curve and I have a heck of a time trying to find out why some areas are more problematic than others when there doesn't seem to be any obvious differences between them.
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Re: MARKLIN STEAMERS AND ROKUHAN TURNOUTS
Jeff-
I have considered doing exactly what you described ?but don't endorse ;)?
I am the king of using tools in ways they were never intended and modifying things in ways they were never meant to be modified to make them work to my advantage. I was just curious if anyone else as experienced this because Rokuhan track is being used more and more on layouts and at least one on the engines giving me issues is only like a year out of production so i worry that future "new" Marklin releases may not play well with these turnouts either depending on how they are made.
So far all of my old and new diesels ave no problem with the turnouts so I can only surmise that there is just enough difference in clearance from te underbellies of the diesels that they work fine.
Anthony
On Thursday, February 17, 2022, 06:32:21 PM EST, Anthony Azzara <afazzara@...> wrote:
My "regular" steamers don't have a problem with them. It's just the couple I mentioned with smaller wheels and a "low belly". I first considered trying to shave a few hundreths of a mm off the bellies but since they house the cogs and whatnot I'd be afraid of going to far and I'm not sure that would 100% do the trick.
On Thursday, February 17, 2022, 06:21:14 PM EST, Thomas Knapp <thomasknapp@...> wrote:
The Rokuhan turnouts have one-piece cast-metal frogs. I do not have any problems running Marklin steam locos through these turnouts. Tom K. -- Tom K.
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Re: MARKLIN STEAMERS AND ROKUHAN TURNOUTS
My "regular" steamers don't have a problem with them. It's just the couple I mentioned with smaller wheels and a "low belly". I first considered trying to shave a few hundreths of a mm off the bellies but since they house the cogs and whatnot I'd be afraid of going to far and I'm not sure that would 100% do the trick.
On Thursday, February 17, 2022, 06:21:14 PM EST, Thomas Knapp <thomasknapp@...> wrote:
The Rokuhan turnouts have one-piece cast-metal frogs. I do not have any problems running Marklin steam locos through these turnouts. Tom K. -- Tom K.
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Re: MARKLIN STEAMERS AND ROKUHAN TURNOUTS
The Rokuhan turnouts have one-piece cast-metal frogs. I do not have any problems running Marklin steam locos through these turnouts. Tom K. -- Tom K.
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Re: MARKLIN STEAMERS AND ROKUHAN TURNOUTS
I take it back. The Switch/T.O.’ do not have the floating tabs for power pickup for the flange, it’s only the X-overs. I found a Switch and what Kian was true. Frog rails distinctly higher at Frog/Point rail hinge. So, loco bumps there and catches on the Driver’s pan/rack as it is still running on top of the (lower) Points
I had a flashback to Oregon National Train Show where 3 of us concurred so filed the Frog with Bastard file, then cleaned up Mill file with much finer teeth and then cleaned up edges. Frog metal was exposed last all of the 3-day Show.
I am NOT recommending this, but worked for us. The show has to go on ! ???
I don’t have my bright view table (Quality photos like Alex of Zmodell) but it would better to see some parts off.
Jeff
SF Bay Area Z
a.k.a. 'The BAZ BoyZ'
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Re: MARKLIN STEAMERS AND ROKUHAN TURNOUTS
I use Rokuhan track 100% on my current layout. I also discovered that running shorter locos has problems that my bigger loc's don't have. My fix is to clean the wheels, clean the track and pay close attention to my turnouts. I then run over the turnouts pushing my loco by hand forward and backward (like training a dog). For whatever reason, this seems to work. Sometimes still have issues but they have been minimized following these steps. It's frustrating that I've had issues with both Marklin and Roku. Having to nudge the engine sometimes to get it going.
I've not tried to add weight. I do remember a member posted years and years ago that they added Tungsten powder or metal shavings which will weigh the loco down to create a heavier train that would help with electrical contact with the Marklin track. I think my next layout will be laid with Micro trains flex track.
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Re: MARKLIN STEAMERS AND ROKUHAN TURNOUTS
I don't have the track but have a colleague does. It looks and functions?very similar to the m?rklin switches, were the frog is plastic yet has a sprung flange-way so that the loco maintains electrical (brilliant IMHO from an 1968 design, that is DCC compatible !!!). The Rokuhan's do run? a little rough with point rails a bit low, the frog a little high, from what I watched at track level. So all of the wheel flanges should ride on the bottom sprung tab until the small gap at the frog. These bottom flange contacts should not have the strength to lift the big drivers but likely the Pilot. I assume you are talking about running?into the points?
For Steam, the 1 axle Pilots, they do not track as well as the 2 axle Pilot, which creates a more stable 'box frame' rather than the 1 axle that is so? loose left-right and high-low (left to right wheels) that gets pushed around so always drags to one side and definitely in curves. An since the Pilot floats in the front and is light in weight so makes it easier to climb (lift). Some have put THIN small washed on top of the Pilot plate (over the axle) to help.
You don't mention if you are running through or divergent, where the arc is another factor compared to thru. And if thru, a lead or following curve track (195-220) can be another factor. And a Curved switch, all bets are off when running thru the points.
--
Jeff
SF Bay Area Z
a.k.a. 'The BAZ BoyZ'
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MARKLIN STEAMERS AND ROKUHAN TURNOUTS
Has anyone else run into and issue with Marklin steam engines hanging up on Rokuan turnouts? I am talking specifically about some with the smaller drive wheels like the 88830 which is a 2-10-0 and even the 88275 which is a 2-8-2. The best I can tell, it looks like the red "belly" gets hung up either on the frogs or just before that point. The rail over the frogs seems to be shallower than the rest and sometimes the larger wheels appear to ride over the frogs on their flanges rather than on their treads but wit these smaller wheels I notice there is very little clearance from the bottom of the loco (red belly) and the treads.
Anthony
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