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On 9/19/23 11:10?PM, Phillip Heller via groups.io wrote: A Cisco can do XOT, but can also do LAPB, which is the native layer 2 encapsulation used for x.25 packets over serial interfaces. Isn't the X.25 over serial nominally /synchronous/ serial? I say nominally because there used to be an *EXPERIMENTAL* implementation of X.25 over /asynchronous/ serial, e.g. RS-232. Sync and async are two different critters and not (directly) interoperable with each other. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
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I’d recommend reading the Wikipedia articles on x.25, x.28, and x.3 as they may help.
Briefly, and hopefully I get all this right! ?…
X.25 defines a layer 3 encapsulation, like IP, but as I understand, the destination address in an X.25 packet is only significant to the interface on which it is received.?
X.28 defines the operation of the PAD, or packet assembler/disassembler. ?This is just a term of art for something more commonly known in the TCP/IP world as a terminal server. This standard defines things like how the PAD operates, the prompts it presents the user, the commands it accepts from the user.
X.29 is the encapsulation for a “call” over x.25 and is analogous to telnet over TCP.
X.3 is a set of characteristics sent between the endpoints of an x.29 call and is analogous to telnet options, like if the call is character or line buffered, who (if anyone) should echo too the caller, etc.
Xotpad performs all of these things entirely in software, and encapsulates the x.25 packet in TCP (aka XOT), where the distant end will de-encapsulate and process the x.25 packet.
A Cisco can do XOT, but can also do LAPB, which is the native layer 2 encapsulation used for x.25 packets over serial interfaces.
I recommend xotpad and wireshark because it may be easier to start simple, inspect the packets, and understand how the protocol works a bit before involving things that are a little harder to troubleshoot. ?That said, the Cisco implementation is decades old and has seen a lot of use, so is pretty robust.
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On Sep 19, 2023, at 9:01?PM, justapersom@... wrote:
?I would still like to use my Cisco router since im not really using it. What does XOT, X28, PAD etc mean? Does "xotpad" use a router like my Cisco one or can it use one?
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I would still like to use my Cisco router since im not really using it. What does XOT, X28, PAD etc mean? Does "xotpad" use a router like my Cisco one or can it use one?
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On 9/19/23 12:11?AM, Phillip Heller via groups.io wrote: That said, I would like to see an old Tymnet engine in operation. As would I. I know a guy who's resurrecting a version of Prodigy. I think he might be able to help. ;-) I think it would be very neat to be able to emulate early previously walled gardens that were joining the Internet bit by bit. For some reason, MCI Mail is on my list. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
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I'd not want to connect a host through a PAD, but it would be kind of nice to have one for connecting terminals or modems :)
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I’ll give a call to your IPX tomorrow - I’m personally partial to native x.25 implementations vs an external pad anyways.
That said, I would like to see an old Tymnet engine in operation.
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On Sep 18, 2023, at 11:07?PM, Hans Hübner <hans.huebner@...> wrote:
? Phil,
my Sun is a SPARCstation IPX running SunOS 4.1.4 and SunLink X.25.? I don't have an external PAD, sadly.
-Hans
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Phil,
my Sun is a SPARCstation IPX running SunOS 4.1.4 and SunLink X.25.? I don't have an external PAD, sadly.
-Hans
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Hans,
? Is your Sparc connected via an external pad or SunLink?
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On Sep 18, 2023, at 10:23?PM, Hans Hübner <hans.huebner@...> wrote:
? Phil nailed it.? I've powered up my systems (23000100, 23000200 and 23000300) as well.? Happy hacking! Am Di., 19. Sept. 2023 um 04:09?Uhr schrieb Phillip Heller via <pheller= [email protected]>: The quickest start for me was to clone and build xotpad from here:
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Then, you can try out calling some x.25 hosts per the community doc here:
If you are eager to see the protocol, wireshark will dissect it.
Also in that doc are some Cisco IOS configuration examples.
You don’t actually need to use the serial interface at all to get started.? You could configure the Cisco Ethernet with dhcp or static, then with the x25 route that specifies xot (search for x25 route) in that doc, you could just use the x28 pad in the Cisco to make your calls.? The command to get into the pad, as I recall is “x28”.
One destination from that doc that has been working recently is “40400201”.
?I dont have a WIC-2A/S but I do have a WIC-1T. Of course without the cables but, maybe I will buy some in the future. Could I use the WIC-1AM-V2 and WIC-1T together? Also I dont think I have a machine with a synchronous serial interface, I didnt know I needed one.
<xotpad.png>
<AOD9vFqU2HF6uj-Ivfe_8CPuRDwhtXaXAKuwA3P0WG_QRuqokQTpTLKahRwgR7iS3QoK2kdSufwZdDUfTlPJJaxXFP8-Rd6P_88yrpDxrjTaBpA=w1200-h630-p.png>
Phil nailed it.? I've powered up my systems (23000100, 23000200 and 23000300) as well.? Happy hacking! Am Di., 19. Sept. 2023 um 04:09?Uhr schrieb Phillip Heller via <pheller= [email protected]>:
The quickest start for me was to clone and build xotpad from here:
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Then, you can try out calling some x.25 hosts per the community doc here:
If you are eager to see the protocol, wireshark will dissect it.
Also in that doc are some Cisco IOS configuration examples.
You don’t actually need to use the serial interface at all to get started.? You could configure the Cisco Ethernet with dhcp or static, then with the x25 route that specifies xot (search for x25 route) in that doc, you could just use the x28 pad in the Cisco to make your calls.? The command to get into the pad, as I recall is “x28”.
One destination from that doc that has been working recently is “40400201”.
?I dont have a WIC-2A/S but I do have a WIC-1T. Of course without the cables but, maybe I will buy some in the future. Could I use the WIC-1AM-V2 and WIC-1T together? Also I dont think I have a machine with a synchronous serial interface, I didnt know I needed one.
The quickest start for me was to clone and build xotpad from here: |
Then, you can try out calling some x.25 hosts per the community doc here:
If you are eager to see the protocol, wireshark will dissect it.
Also in that doc are some Cisco IOS configuration examples.
You don’t actually need to use the serial interface at all to get started. ?You could configure the Cisco Ethernet with dhcp or static, then with the x25 route that specifies xot (search for x25 route) in that doc, you could just use the x28 pad in the Cisco to make your calls. ?The command to get into the pad, as I recall is “x28”.
One destination from that doc that has been working recently is “40400201”.
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On Sep 18, 2023, at 8:00?PM, justapersom@... wrote:
?I dont have a WIC-2A/S but I do have a WIC-1T. Of course without the cables but, maybe I will buy some in the future. Could I use the WIC-1AM-V2 and WIC-1T together? Also I dont think I have a machine with a synchronous serial interface, I didnt know I needed one.
I dont have a WIC-2A/S but I do have a WIC-1T. Of course without the cables but, maybe I will buy some in the future. Could I use the WIC-1AM-V2 and WIC-1T together? Also I dont think I have a machine with a synchronous serial interface, I didnt know I needed one.
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Do you have a machine with a synchronous serial interface and suitable X.25 software?? Or do you want to just connect your two cisco's with X.25?? Your WIC-1AM-V2 is a modem and will probably not be very useful.? You'll need synchronous interfaces like WIC-2A/S and the correct cables for your application.? Given?that there is a wide variety of X.25 products, there is no all-encompassing "getting started" guide, but we'll probably be able to help you if you have questions and the stuff that you have is not too exotic.
Hey, I am also a clueless guy who has never used X.25. I have 2 Cisco 2620s, one of them (that I want to use) has a serial addon and a WIC-1AM-V2 addon that I wish to use but I dont really know how and I dont know what it can do with X.25.
Is there some guide to how i can set it all up?
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Hey, I am also a clueless guy who has never used X.25. I have 2 Cisco 2620s, one of them (that I want to use) has a serial addon and a WIC-1AM-V2 addon that I wish to use but I dont really know how and I dont know what it can do with X.25.
Is there some guide to how i can set it all up?
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On 14/07/2023 22.47, Alice Wyan wrote:
On Fri, Jul 14, 2023 at 02:07 PM, Mantas Mikul?nas wrote:
You don't need an autocommand or "reverse telnet" for
X.25-to-AUX. You can just directly assign `rotary` to the aux
line, and the router will accept PAD calls and directly connect
them to the AUX output.
So it would be just a matter of setting up XOT and then set up
'rotary' and all set?
Yes, along with `transport input pad` if it's not currently set
to include that.
(And probably something like `modem CallOut` to have the ESP32
notice when the call is lost and trigger some kind of
logout/reset... Yesterday I was trying to get `modem callout`
working for the AUX line, so that doing a `logout` on the
connected Linux system also drops the X.25 call, but can't get the
opposite working – Linux seems to ignore DSR so ttyS0 remains
logged in even after the call is lost; doesn't help that the IOS
that I currently have keeps crashing the whole router if CallOut
mode is set.)
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On Fri, Jul 14, 2023 at 02:07 PM, Mantas Mikul?nas wrote:
You don't need an autocommand or "reverse telnet" for X.25-to-AUX. You can just directly assign `rotary` to the aux line, and the router will accept PAD calls and directly connect them to the AUX output.
So it would be just a matter of setting up XOT and then set up 'rotary' and all set?
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On 14/07/2023 00.49, Mantas Mikul?nas via groups.io wrote: On 14/07/2023 00.44, Mantas Mikul?nas via groups.io wrote:
On 13/07/2023 23.50, Alice Wyan wrote:
Just reread your post, I think I misunderstood it the first time around.
The AUX port on the Cisco is just an async serial port, right? It is, yes.
So what you are suggesting, if I read correctly, would be:
a) plug a serial device (computer or whatever) on to the AUX port of the Cisco router
b) configure x25 routing on the Cisco so that incoming X.25 connections via XOT go to the AUX port If you mean running actual X.25 communications software on the CP/M – I don't think that'll quite work, as IOS will not let you route X.25 over async lines; I believe it only works over synchronous serial ports. (The cpm-x25 docs mention synchronous mode being required on its end, too.)
Though if all you have is an async AUX, you can still connect devices over it, but you'll need the Cisco router *itself* to accept the X.25 call into one of its vty lines (service pad from-xot), and have that line configured with an `autocommand` to telnet somewhere further.
(E.g. if the device provides a plain login prompt via serial, then an autocommand to telnet to the router's own "reverse telnet" ports for the AUX line. If the device does PPP, *that* can run over AUX and you can have an autocommand to telnet to the device via PPP, or DECnet `lat` connection, or something such.) About what you said earlier about not giving users access: In IOS, lines *won't* have console (Exec) access if an `autocommand` is set on them. So it should be safe to assign a few vty lines to `transport input pad`, give them an X.25 sub-address using `rotary XX`, and point them wherever is needed. It's not exactly a pure conversion but it does the job... Ahhhh. Hold on. I completely forgot about an easier possibility, even though I was making my own notes on this *literally two days ago.* You don't need an autocommand or "reverse telnet" for X.25-to-AUX. You can just directly assign `rotary` to the aux line, and the router will accept PAD calls and directly connect them to the AUX output. Sorry for forgetting that option.
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On 14/07/2023 00.44, Mantas Mikul?nas via groups.io wrote: On 13/07/2023 23.50, Alice Wyan wrote:
Just reread your post, I think I misunderstood it the first time around.
The AUX port on the Cisco is just an async serial port, right? It is, yes.
So what you are suggesting, if I read correctly, would be:
a) plug a serial device (computer or whatever) on to the AUX port of the Cisco router
b) configure x25 routing on the Cisco so that incoming X.25 connections via XOT go to the AUX port If you mean running actual X.25 communications software on the CP/M – I don't think that'll quite work, as IOS will not let you route X.25 over async lines; I believe it only works over synchronous serial ports. (The cpm-x25 docs mention synchronous mode being required on its end, too.)
Though if all you have is an async AUX, you can still connect devices over it, but you'll need the Cisco router *itself* to accept the X.25 call into one of its vty lines (service pad from-xot), and have that line configured with an `autocommand` to telnet somewhere further.
(E.g. if the device provides a plain login prompt via serial, then an autocommand to telnet to the router's own "reverse telnet" ports for the AUX line. If the device does PPP, *that* can run over AUX and you can have an autocommand to telnet to the device via PPP, or DECnet `lat` connection, or something such.) About what you said earlier about not giving users access: In IOS, lines *won't* have console (Exec) access if an `autocommand` is set on them. So it should be safe to assign a few vty lines to `transport input pad`, give them an X.25 sub-address using `rotary XX`, and point them wherever is needed. It's not exactly a pure conversion but it does the job...
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On 13/07/2023 23.50, Alice Wyan wrote: Just reread your post, I think I misunderstood it the first time around.
The AUX port on the Cisco is just an async serial port, right? It is, yes. So what you are suggesting, if I read correctly, would be:
a) plug a serial device (computer or whatever) on to the AUX port of the Cisco router
b) configure x25 routing on the Cisco so that incoming X.25 connections via XOT go to the AUX port If you mean running actual X.25 communications software on the CP/M – I don't think that'll quite work, as IOS will not let you route X.25 over async lines; I believe it only works over synchronous serial ports. (The cpm-x25 docs mention synchronous mode being required on its end, too.) Though if all you have is an async AUX, you can still connect devices over it, but you'll need the Cisco router *itself* to accept the X.25 call into one of its vty lines (service pad from-xot), and have that line configured with an `autocommand` to telnet somewhere further. (E.g. if the device provides a plain login prompt via serial, then an autocommand to telnet to the router's own "reverse telnet" ports for the AUX line. If the device does PPP, *that* can run over AUX and you can have an autocommand to telnet to the device via PPP, or DECnet `lat` connection, or something such.) (From what I understand, that's how actual "PADs" used to work – they'd accept the X.25 call on behalf of whatever async lines they had.) Though the full "enterprise" IOS images might have more capabilities there; I still haven't installed the RAM upgrades to try it out.
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Alice Wyan Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2023 4:50 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [X.25] Getting started ? Just reread your post, I think I misunderstood it the first time around.
The AUX port on the Cisco is just an async serial port, right? So what you are suggesting, if I read correctly, would be:
a) plug a serial device (computer or whatever) on to the AUX port of the Cisco router
b) configure x25 routing on the Cisco so that incoming X.25 connections via XOT go to the AUX port
Would this be correct?
If so, that would allow me to join TELEBAHN quite easily :) I guess the computer to connect could be an ESP32 running a CP/M emulator, there must be software from that era available.
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Just reread your post, I think I misunderstood it the first time around.
The AUX port on the Cisco is just an async serial port, right? So what you are suggesting, if I read correctly, would be:
a) plug a serial device (computer or whatever) on to the AUX port of the Cisco router
b) configure x25 routing on the Cisco so that incoming X.25 connections via XOT go to the AUX port
Would this be correct?
If so, that would allow me to join TELEBAHN quite easily :) I guess the computer to connect could be an ESP32 running a CP/M emulator, there must be software from that era available.
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