|
I know several of those who post here have reported good results with Fldigi and Win11, but
we here have not.
The subject computer is a new Acer Aspire 3 which came with the latest version of Win11.
After messing around with this thing for the past two or three days, we find that Win11 has
reversed the two ports for Fldigi's receive and transmit functions.
We have set the computer's audio settings to the Realtek Speakers, and its input to the
onboard microphone. These work correctly.
We have also set the communications device settings to the Fldigi choices, although what
SHOULD be the RECEIVED signal from Fldigi, Win11 sees as the MIC input,and the MIC
input to Fldigi is seen by Win11 as the SPEAKER output
The audio level control for the Fldigi ports is set permanently at zero and cannot be
increased. It is grayed out.
This occurs with two different interfaces, 1) a SignaLink USB unit, and 2) a West Mountain
RigBlaster Advantage.
And there appears to be no way to reverse these settings, except by physically reversing the
two connections within the Signalink or Rigblaster.
We have updated Win11 to the laatest verion and have searched the internet for possible
solutions. finding none.
At this point we are fed up with fooling with this, and have installed a new version of Win10
Pro 64 bit on the laptop.
Ken W7EKB
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
--
Ken Gordon W7EKB
|
That is the way Windows has always labeled sound card inputs and outputs. What Windows calls the "microphone" is a generic name for analog audio inputs to the sound card. In the case of a transceiver, that is the signal from the receiver (the same signal you hear in the radio's speaker). What Windows calls the "speaker" is a generic name for analog audio outputs from the sound card. In the case of a transceiver, that is the audio modulation input to the transmitter (takes the place of the transceiver's microphone input). This did not change between Windows 10 and 11.
?
You can rename these inputs and outputs to make this less confusing. You can rename the playback device you use for transmitting digital modes from "Speaker" to something like "Radio Transmitter" and the recording device you use for receiving digital modes from "Microphone" to something like "Radio Receiver".?
?
The "default communications device" in Windows is the sound card device used by VoIP programs (e.g. Skype or Zoom). It has nothing to do with radio communications, and should not be used for that purpose. The "default communications device" in Windows should normally be set to be the motherboard sound card, the same as the regular "default device".
?
Note that in addition to the master volume level controls, in the Windows 11 Sound Settings there are also application-specific level settings. You should check these to make sure that the application-specific settings for fldigi have not been defaulted to zero.
?
73,
Rich VE3KI
?
?
?
On Sat, Nov 9, 2024 at 07:08 PM, Kenneth G. Gordon wrote:
I know several of those who post here have reported good results with Fldigi and Win11, but
we here have not.
The subject computer is a new Acer Aspire 3 which came with the latest version of Win11.
After messing around with this thing for the past two or three days, we find that Win11 has
reversed the two ports for Fldigi's receive and transmit functions.
We have set the computer's audio settings to the Realtek Speakers, and its input to the
onboard microphone. These work correctly.
We have also set the communications device settings to the Fldigi choices, although what
SHOULD be the RECEIVED signal from Fldigi, Win11 sees as the MIC input,and the MIC
input to Fldigi is seen by Win11 as the SPEAKER output
The audio level control for the Fldigi ports is set permanently at zero and cannot be
increased. It is grayed out.
This occurs with two different interfaces, 1) a SignaLink USB unit, and 2) a West Mountain
RigBlaster Advantage.
And there appears to be no way to reverse these settings, except by physically reversing the
two connections within the Signalink or Rigblaster.
We have updated Win11 to the laatest verion and have searched the internet for possible
solutions. finding none.
At this point we are fed up with fooling with this, and have installed a new version of Win10
Pro 64 bit on the laptop.
Ken W7EKB
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
--
Ken Gordon W7EKB
|
Apparently I did not make myself clear about what exactly is happening in Win11 that differs from Win10; I'll try to do a better job on that this time: If one looks at the levels displayed in the MIC output display in say the audio mixer, one sees the levels being output by the receiver through Fldigi. There is no such display in the SPEAKER level control reading where it should be. Ordinarily, in Win10, one can see audio from the radio receiver being displayed in the SPEAKERS section of the display. Instead, in Win11 we are seeing the audio output by the attached radio receiver in the MIC section of the display where it should NOT be. The SPEAKERS section of that display shows nothing. In as plain language as I can say it, the input/output signals to/from the SignaLink are reversed in the Win11 audio system. Those exact same signals are NOT reversed in the Win10 audio system displays. FYI, I have been heavily involved with computers and software since about 1970, so I do know what I am seeing. Thanks for the input, though. As I said, in this case, I fixed the issue by installing and activating a new seat of Win10 Pro 64 bit. Ken W7EKB On 9 Nov 2024 at 17:03, ve3ki via groups.io wrote:
That is the way Windows has always labeled sound card inputs and
outputs. What Windows calls the "microphone" is a generic name for
analog audio inputs to the sound card. In the case of a transceiver,
that is the signal from the receiver (the same signal you hear in the
radio's speaker). What Windows calls the "speaker" is a generic name
for analog audio outputs from the sound card. In the case of a
transceiver, that is the audio modulation input to the transmitter
(takes the place of the transceiver's microphone input). This did not
change between Windows 10 and 11. ? You can rename these inputs and
outputs to make this less confusing. You can rename the playback
device you use for transmitting digital modes from "Speaker" to
something like "Radio Transmitter" and the recording device you use
for receiving digital modes from "Microphone" to something like "Radio
Receiver".? ? The "default communications device" in Windows is the
sound card device used by VoIP programs (e.g. Skype or Zoom). It has
nothing to do with radio communications, and should not be used for
that purpose. The "default communications device" in Windows should
normally be set to be the motherboard sound card, the same as the
regular "default device". ? Note that in addition to the master
volume level controls, in the Windows 11 Sound Settings there are also
application-specific level settings. You should check these to make
sure that the application-specific settings for fldigi have not been
defaulted to zero. ? 73, Rich VE3KI ? ? ? On Sat, Nov 9, 2024 at
07:08 PM, Kenneth G. Gordon wrote: I know several of those who post
here have reported good results with Fldigi and Win11, but we here
have not.
The subject computer is a new Acer Aspire 3 which came with the latest
version of Win11.
After messing around with this thing for the past two or three days,
we find that Win11 has reversed the two ports for Fldigi's receive and
transmit functions.
We have set the computer's audio settings to the Realtek Speakers, and
its input to the onboard microphone. These work correctly.
We have also set the communications device settings to the Fldigi
choices, although what SHOULD be the RECEIVED signal from Fldigi,
Win11 sees as the MIC input,and the MIC input to Fldigi is seen by
Win11 as the SPEAKER output
The audio level control for the Fldigi ports is set permanently at
zero and cannot be increased. It is grayed out.
This occurs with two different interfaces, 1) a SignaLink USB unit,
and 2) a West Mountain RigBlaster Advantage.
And there appears to be no way to reverse these settings, except by
physically reversing the two connections within the Signalink or
Rigblaster.
We have updated Win11 to the laatest verion and have searched the
internet for possible solutions. finding none.
At this point we are fed up with fooling with this, and have installed
a new version of Win10 Pro 64 bit on the laptop.
Ken W7EKB
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
--
Ken Gordon W7EKB
-- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com -- Ken Gordon W7EKB
|
GM, Ken, I understand the frustration...I'll resp0nd inline, and hope that quoting makes it clear... On 2024-11-09 20:53:, Kenneth G. Gordon via groups.io wrote: If one looks at the levels displayed in the MIC output display in say the audio mixer, "MIC output display" I want to be sure we are on the same page here...MIC output display means the output from the ~driver~ to Windows apps, not output to an external device, such as digirig. mic is an input. I avoid this discussion in my mind by labeling devices as recommended in the attached. one sees the levels being output by the receiver through Fldigi. Not quite, IIUC. The mic input is the audio signal that has not reached fldigi yet. You should be able to kill fldigi, tune the radio to a signal, and see a response on the Windows mic meter. From there, if fldigi is configured to use this input, the audio stream will reach fldigi. fldigi doesna reroute received audio streams anywhere that I know of. There is no such display in the SPEAKER level control reading where it should be. That makes sense. The only way for the spkr meter to respond to mic inputs is to have it configured that way. Please see the attached. In principle, these docs work ~in general~ for any radio and sound card IF, such as SignaLink or digirig. Note in particular, "In Playback and Recording, the digirig should NOT be a Default or Default Comm Device. Only fldigi will be using it." Of course, if you want to hear the RX audio, then configure the driver to send audio to the speakers. fldigi will be able to ~also~ receive the audio stream. It's just sent to 2 places: fldigi, because fldigi is configured to use that mic device; and the system speakers, because the driver is configured that way. The docs attached assume that you ~don't~ want to listen to all that digital audio, so the mic and speaker devices attached to the sound card you are using, such as digirig or SL, are NOT a Default or Default Comm Device. I adjust the audio to the radio speaker or an external speaker when I am using any of my radios except HTs. That way, I can confirm received signals, yet turn down the volume so I am not annoyed by the noise. Can't do that w HTs., but there are many visual indications of both RX audio (on radio and laptop), and the fldigi SIG display. Ordinarily, in Win10, one can see audio from the radio receiver being displayed in the
SPEAKERS section of the display. ONLY if the system is configured that way. Instead, in Win11 we are seeing the audio output by the
attached radio receiver in the MIC section of the display where it should NOT be. This is exactly where it should be. Radio ~output~ is a mic or line level ~input~ to the computer. As I said, in this case, I fixed the issue by installing and activating a new seat of Win10 Pro 64 bit. You have been very clear with your posts, but I admit that it leaves me puzzled about how you normally config your system in W10. As you see in the attached docs, the Sound dialog is pictured. What is not pictured, but is described in the text, is further configuration, noted by comments such as "Listen: Unselect Listen to this device." All I can say otherwise is that I am a regular user of fldigi, have been for many years, and use a variety of Windows. I use fldigi with W11, following both the recommendations of the attachments AND accounting for the peculiarities of W11, which, IMO, make life more difficult, but still follow the same rules. Kind regards, Rich
|
Although I thank you, very much, for all of which you posted below, my problem with Win11's audio system is still not being understood.
I am going to have to at least post photos, and maybe even videos of what I am seeing in order to make it clear.
I'll try once more to explain it: the audio signal from the radio's receiver, through the digital interface and the computer's USB port is being directed to the computer's MIC input instead of to the computer's speakers and to Fldigi's on-screen waterfall display where it should appear.
And the signal from Flidigi which is meant to be directed from the computer through the USB port and the digital interface to the radio transmiter's MIC jack is, instead being output to the computer's speakers and never appears at the transmitter at all, where it is supposed to be.
As we talk in the room where we are working, Fldigi's waterfall is displaying audio signals which vary with our voices.
In other words, the two signals are being reversed within Win11...or the laptop.
This does NOT occur in Win10. At least it never has.
Now, from what I have read here and other places, our situation appears to be unique to us, yet I cannot figure out why we are getting this.
It appears to me that the only way we can fix this in this case is to physically reverse the two rx/tx wire-connections within the digital interfaces, but we have never needed to do this previously.
Perhaps our unique problem is simply related to something within the Acer laptop we are using, and by now, I am leaning that way.
I have not yet hauled the Acer laptop back to the owner, KL2JY, to test the Win10 install, but when I do, I'll report results here.
Ken W7EKB
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S21 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: "Rich NE1EE via groups.io" <TheDustyKey@...> Date: 11/10/24 03:36 (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [winfldigi] Fldigi and Win11 audio tricks
GM, Ken, I understand the frustration...I'll resp0nd inline, and hope that quoting makes it clear... On 2024-11-09 20:53:, Kenneth G. Gordon via groups.io wrote: >If one looks at the levels displayed in the MIC output display in say the audio mixer, "MIC output display" I want to be sure we are on the same page here...MIC output display means the output from the ~driver~ to Windows apps, not output to an external device, such as digirig. mic is an input. I avoid this discussion in my mind by labeling devices as recommended in the attached. >one sees the levels being output by the receiver through Fldigi. Not quite, IIUC. The mic input is the audio signal that has not reached fldigi yet. You should be able to kill fldigi, tune the radio to a signal, and see a response on the Windows mic meter. From there, if fldigi is configured to use this input, the audio stream will reach fldigi. fldigi doesna reroute received audio streams anywhere that I know of. >There is no such display in the SPEAKER level control reading where it should be. That makes sense. The only way for the spkr meter to respond to mic inputs is to have it configured that way. Please see the attached. In principle, these docs work ~in general~ for any radio and sound card IF, such as SignaLink or digirig. Note in particular, "In Playback and Recording, the digirig should NOT be a Default or Default Comm Device. Only fldigi will be using it." Of course, if you want to hear the RX audio, then configure the driver to send audio to the speakers. fldigi will be able to ~also~ receive the audio stream. It's just sent to 2 places: fldigi, because fldigi is configured to use that mic device; and the system speakers, because the driver is configured that way. The docs attached assume that you ~don't~ want to listen to all that digital audio, so the mic and speaker devices attached to the sound card you are using, such as digirig or SL, are NOT a Default or Default Comm Device. I adjust the audio to the radio speaker or an external speaker when I am using any of my radios except HTs. That way, I can confirm received signals, yet turn down the volume so I am not annoyed by the noise. Can't do that w HTs., but there are many visual indications of both RX audio (on radio and laptop), and the fldigi SIG display. >Ordinarily, in Win10, one can see audio from the radio receiver being displayed in the >SPEAKERS section of the display. ONLY if the system is configured that way. >Instead, in Win11 we are seeing the audio output by the >attached radio receiver in the MIC section of the display where it should NOT be. This is exactly where it should be. Radio ~output~ is a mic or line level ~input~ to the computer. >As I said, in this case, I fixed the issue by installing and activating a new seat of Win10 Pro 64 bit. You have been very clear with your posts, but I admit that it leaves me puzzled about how you normally config your system in W10. As you see in the attached docs, the Sound dialog is pictured. What is not pictured, but is described in the text, is further configuration, noted by comments such as "Listen: Unselect Listen to this device." All I can say otherwise is that I am a regular user of fldigi, have been for many years, and use a variety of Windows. I use fldigi with W11, following both the recommendations of the attachments AND accounting for the peculiarities of W11, which, IMO, make life more difficult, but still follow the same rules. Kind regards, Rich -- Ken Gordon W7EKB
|
It sounds like you have FLDigi configured to use the laptop's speaker and microphone channels, rather than the Signalink USB.
?
Here is a snip of my FLDigi soundcard configuration. Yours should be similar. Note that it uses the speaker and mic OF THE USB AUDIO DEVICE, not the Realtek soundcard in the computer. If the USB soundcard driver does not appear, you may have a missing driver.
?
|
No. I have it configured as you show it.
I'll post photos asap.
At this point, I am strongly suspecting an error in the laptop, perhaps within the audio system driver.
More later.
Ken W7EKB
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S21 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: "K1APJ via groups.io" <K1APJ@...> Date: 11/10/24 09:36 (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [winfldigi] Fldigi and Win11 audio tricks
It sounds like you have FLDigi configured to use the laptop's speaker and microphone channels, rather than the Signalink USB.
?
Here is a snip of my FLDigi soundcard configuration. Yours should be similar. Note that it uses the speaker and mic OF THE USB AUDIO DEVICE, not the Realtek soundcard in the computer. If the USB soundcard driver does not appear, you may have a missing driver.
?
-- Ken Gordon W7EKB
|
GA, Ken...busy here, so a few quick notes On 2024-11-10 12:10:, Kenneth G. Gordon via groups.io wrote: I'll try once more to explain it: the audio signal from the radio's receiver, through the digital interface and the computer's USB port is being directed to the computer's MIC input Correct. instead of to the computer's speakers and to Fldigi's on-screen waterfall display where it should appear. This means ~to me~ that fldigi's input port is ~not~ connected to the USB mic input. This is why I have the habit of loosely following the PDF guidelines...by naming the proper USB ports at the driver level, I am less likely to get them wrong in fldigi. I'll send pics later. And the signal from Flidigi which is meant to be directed from the computer through the USB port and the digital interface to the radio transmiter's MIC jack is, instead being output to the computer's speakers and never appears at the transmitter at all, where it is supposed to be. If I saw that here, I'd immediately check the fldigi port config to verify that its TX is going to the correct driver (CODEC). So you are on the right track when you say that you might post images later...so will I. As we talk in the room where we are working, Fldigi's waterfall is displaying audio signals which vary with our voices. Makes sense. It means that fldigi is configured to send its output to the system speakers...possibly identified as some specific device, such as Realtek speaker. Cheers, ~R~ NE1EE
|
Ken,?
I have resigned myself to moving to Linux for digital operations or remain with Win 10 indefinitely.? Of course staying with Win10 may mean cutting the ISP cord, in a year, to avoid virus, etc. The only thing holding me on windows now is N3FJP's logging apps, and perhaps JTAlert.?
?
Just too much hassle to make win 11 operate well with any of the digital apps due to their?sound profile tinkering.? It may come to pass that these ham world Win11 digital app problems may push us all to Linux or off-line with Win10 or even win 7 as many remain today.? It is virtually certain that MS couldn't care less as they don't seem interested in dealing with uncontrollable users, and considering the overall scheme we're and infinitesimally small user group.?
Cheers, Phil
?
|
OK. I have just now confirmed that our problem here is NOT in Win11. It occurs in Win10
too.
I have also removed all audio system drivers, have installed the most reliable version of the
Realtek audio drivers and have then connected the laptop to my own working (Win10)
system.
Result: the same problem as before: inputs and outputs are reversed.
Conclusion: a wiring or firmware error within the Acer laptop. Possible USB ports wired
wrong.
Fix (temporary): reverse the rx and tx wiring in the digital interface.
I will post photos and results as soon as I can.
Ken W7EKB
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
--
Ken Gordon W7EKB
|
FYI, I see that you posted this is possibly a hardware issue because the problem also occurs under Win10, but I wanted to add a note for Win11 users.
Win11 does not handle audio the same way as Win10.
It is *not* sufficient simply to configure the audio devices in the fldigi app and expect it to work correctly.? There are application-specific audio settings in the Windows 11 sound settings control panel that must be set properly.
In Win10 all you have to do is select the sound devices inside fldigi (or js8call, wsjt-x, etc.) and off you go.
That does *not* work in Windows 11.? I've detailed the settings approach that I had to use to get fldigi working correctly in Win11 in another thread, so my main point here is that you can't just post a screen shot of the fldigi audio config and expect that to mean anything for Windows 11.
Windows 11 itself may be rerouting the audio elsewhere, regardless of what setting you make in the fldigi audio config panel.
73 de AE4ON
On Sun, Nov 10, 2024, 2:20?PM Kenneth G. Gordon via <kgordon2006= [email protected]> wrote: OK. I have just now confirmed that our problem here is NOT in Win11. It occurs in Win10
too.
I have also removed all audio system drivers, have installed the most reliable version of the
Realtek audio drivers and have then connected the laptop to my own working (Win10)
system.
Result: the same problem as before: inputs and outputs are reversed.
Conclusion: a wiring or firmware error within the Acer laptop. Possible USB ports wired
wrong.
Fix (temporary): reverse the rx and tx wiring in the digital interface.
I will post photos and results as soon as I can.
Ken W7EKB
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
--
Ken Gordon W7EKB
|
Rich NE1EE
Daniel (AE4ON)