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[WT] FW: Dang - it won't run (UPDATE)

Gary J. Tolosa #150709 Thanks again for the great input/guidance, here is what I found.... I first checked the accelerator pump and verified gas is getting into the carb. Next, I checked for a spark on the spark plug, I did the test as DJ described, holding the line 1/4 inch from the plug, ignition on and tried to start, I did not see a spark, but was not sure about the distance of the line to the plug since the line has a cover on the end. So I removed the plug, connected the line and tried it that way - no spark was visible (finally the crummy lights in my garage were good for something). I then checked the positive line to the coil (with the ignition on) for power. I have power at the coil. I then checked the points (again with the ignition on) and got a spark. I then checked the line at the top of the coil for spark, but did not see any spark. So, unless I did not do a test above properly (entirely possible), I think I may have a bad coil. I did remove the coil, it seems to have liquid inside, I heard once they can dry up and go bad. Seems kind of strange, I would loose the coil like that though. Just idling a few minutes. Also, if the coil is bad, would anyone have a NAPA part number for the 12v coil that fits the original mount? I did take my old coil to my FLAPS but the highly motivated person behind the counter said he had no way to test my coil and that he was not sure what coil I had, since the original was a 6v and mine has been converted to 12v, he then found a coil that "should work" for $60.00, and also said the part is not returnable. Now that's customer service. Needless to say, I decided to hold on that offer. Oh yea, I almost forgot, I did check the plugs, they all seem to have had a black layer of crud built up, so I did replace them all. But, this did not solve the issue, sorry Dr. I think we are getting close... Please advise on what you folks think. Thanks again. Gary toggle quoted message Show quoted text -----Original Message----- From: WillysTech@... [mailto:WillysTech@...] On Behalf Of kr98664 Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 6:22 PM To: WillysTech@... Subject: Re: [WT] FW: Dang - it won't run --- In WillysTech@... <mailto:WillysTech%40yahoogroups.com> , "Gary J. Tolosa" <gtolosa@...> wrote: > > I had submitted this yesterday with only one response, which was helpful > Well, let's consider it was running okay within recent history, so odds are likely against any sort of catastrophic failure. My first thoughts were the spark plugs have fouled. These old engines aren't exactly the cleanest burning things, running on the rich side all the time, and way more so when the engine is cold and choke is on. It doesn't take much to foul the plugs under those conditions. I can notice the plugs loading up on my 2A when idling for any length of time. I have to romp on the engine a little bit to blow out the carbon. Often a few minutes of running with a heavy load, under full throttle, is all it will take. Back in the pre-PC days, we even had a special term for that, the (censored) tune-up. Since you can't get it started to perform a (censored) tune-up, I'd suggest yanking the plugs for a look see. With any sort of build up other than a dry, light tan coating, the plugs may not fire. Give 'em a good cleaning with some aerosol electronic cleaner, dry 'em with compressed air, and reinstall them and see what happens. I'm willing to bet DJ's entire collection of Dukes of Hazzard action figures (Yes, even the talking Boss Hogg) that your engine will fire right back up. However, since I'm lazy, and yanking plugs involves wrenches, there are three quick checks I'd make. Make sure you have a spark, like DJ described. Keep in mind a spark may be strong enough to fire in ambient air conditions, but not under compression inside a cylinder. No spark obviously equals bad. The presence of a spark doesn't guarantee it's a useable spark, but don't get too bogged down with that yet. I'd also suggest taking a looksee at the condition of the ignition points. They should be light grey on both sides and no rougher than very fine sandpaper, with no evidence of burning. I've no idea why this works, but pass a folded dollar bill back and forth between the points several times, and that will often clean up any light crud. The points need to be closed first, and once you spread them open, they'll clamp back down on the dollar bill. The other lazy man's thing to check is for the presence of fuel spraying down the carb throat when you cycle the throttle linkage. That's the accelerator pump at work, which tells you there is fuel present in the carb bowl. No guarantees the rest of the carb is working properly, but at least you can quickly confirm it has fuel. Don't get too bogged down with any of these last checks. You can check for the presence of fuel, spark, and clean the ignition points all in less than five minutes. After that, yank the plugs for a good cleaning before anything else. Make sure you let us know what finally fixes it, so I can rub it in DJ's face and finally get that talking Boss Hog doll of his. (Don't worry, DJ, I won't take your Daisy Duke memorabilia) Regards, Dr. Vern
snakespit1934 #150713 I have been told that is the nature of coils. They are either good, or they are bad. No in-between; when they die, they do it suddenly, with no fooling around. A 12 Volt coil should be no problem to find, including a mount, if the old mount doesn't fit. -Denver (Hemet, CA) --- In WillysTech@..., "Gary J. Tolosa" <gtolosa@...> wrote: Thanks again for the great input/guidance, here is what I found.... I first checked the accelerator pump and verified gas is getting into the carb. Next, I checked for a spark on the spark plug, I did the test as DJ described, holding the line 1/4 inch from the plug, ignition on and tried to start, I did not see a spark, but was not sure about the distance of the line to the plug since the line has a cover on the end. So I removed the plug, connected the line and tried it that way - no spark was visible (finally the crummy lights in my garage were good for something). I then checked the positive line to the coil (with the ignition on) for power. I have power at the coil. I then checked the points (again with the ignition on) and got a spark. I then checked the line at the top of the coil for spark, but did not see any spark. So, unless I did not do a test above properly (entirely possible), I think I may have a bad coil. I did remove the coil, it seems to have liquid inside, I heard once they can dry up and go bad. Seems kind of strange, I would loose the coil like that though. Just idling a few minutes. Also, if the coil is bad, would anyone have a NAPA part number for the 12v coil that fits the original mount? I did take my old coil to my FLAPS but the highly motivated person behind the counter said he had no way to test my coil and that he was not sure what coil I had, since the original was a 6v and mine has been converted to 12v, he then found a coil that "should work" for $60.00, and also said the part is not returnable. Now that's customer service. Needless to say, I decided to hold on that offer. Oh yea, I almost forgot, I did check the plugs, they all seem to have had a black layer of crud built up, so I did replace them all. But, this did not solve the issue, sorry Dr. I think we are getting close... Please advise on what you folks think. Thanks again. Gary -----Original Message----- From: WillysTech@... [mailto:WillysTech@...] On Behalf Of kr98664 Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 6:22 PM To: WillysTech@... Subject: Re: [WT] FW: Dang - it won't run --- In WillysTech@... <mailto:WillysTech%40yahoogroups.com> , "Gary J. Tolosa" <gtolosa@> wrote: > > I had submitted this yesterday with only one response, which was helpful > Well, let's consider it was running okay within recent history, so odds are likely against any sort of catastrophic failure. My first thoughts were the spark plugs have fouled. These old engines aren't exactly the cleanest burning things, running on the rich side all the time, and way more so when the engine is cold and choke is on. It doesn't take much to foul the plugs under those conditions. I can notice the plugs loading up on my 2A when idling for any length of time. I have to romp on the engine a little bit to blow out the carbon. Often a few minutes of running with a heavy load, under full throttle, is all it will take. Back in the pre-PC days, we even had a special term for that, the (censored) tune-up. Since you can't get it started to perform a (censored) tune- up, I'd suggest yanking the plugs for a look see. With any sort of build up other than a dry, light tan coating, the plugs may not fire. Give 'em a good cleaning with some aerosol electronic cleaner, dry 'em with compressed air, and reinstall them and see what happens. I'm willing to bet DJ's entire collection of Dukes of Hazzard action figures (Yes, even the talking Boss Hogg) that your engine will fire right back up. However, since I'm lazy, and yanking plugs involves wrenches, there are three quick checks I'd make. Make sure you have a spark, like DJ described. Keep in mind a spark may be strong enough to fire in ambient air conditions, but not under compression inside a cylinder. No spark obviously equals bad. The presence of a spark doesn't guarantee it's a useable spark, but don't get too bogged down with that yet. I'd also suggest taking a looksee at the condition of the ignition points. They should be light grey on both sides and no rougher than very fine sandpaper, with no evidence of burning. I've no idea why this works, but pass a folded dollar bill back and forth between the points several times, and that will often clean up any light crud. The points need to be closed first, and once you spread them open, they'll clamp back down on the dollar bill. The other lazy man's thing to check is for the presence of fuel spraying down the carb throat when you cycle the throttle linkage. That's the accelerator pump at work, which tells you there is fuel present in the carb bowl. No guarantees the rest of the carb is working properly, but at least you can quickly confirm it has fuel. Don't get too bogged down with any of these last checks. You can check for the presence of fuel, spark, and clean the ignition points all in less than five minutes. After that, yank the plugs for a good cleaning before anything else. Make sure you let us know what finally fixes it, so I can rub it in DJ's face and finally get that talking Boss Hog doll of his. (Don't worry, DJ, I won't take your Daisy Duke memorabilia) Regards, Dr. Vern [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] #150721 The hardest coil to find was the one I needed that went under dash and has a key assembly made into it. Found it in Minnesota. Andy Nashville *** See what's new at
looneybin840 All Messages By This Member #150716 More food for thought you can test the coils ohms... Bob, Az toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ---- From: snakespit1934 <jeepnut@...> To: WillysTech@... Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 12:51:47 AM Subject: Re: [WT] FW: Dang - it won't run (UPDATE) I have been told that is the nature of coils. They are either good, or they are bad. No in-between; when they die, they do it suddenly, with no fooling around. A 12 Volt coil should be no problem to find, including a mount, if the old mount doesn't fit. -Denver (Hemet, CA) --- In WillysTech@yahoogro ups.com, "Gary J. Tolosa" <gtolosa@... > wrote: Thanks again for the great input/guidance, here is what I found.... I first checked the accelerator pump and verified gas is getting into the carb. Next, I checked for a spark on the spark plug, I did the test as DJ described, holding the line 1/4 inch from the plug, ignition on and tried to start, I did not see a spark, but was not sure about the distance of the line to the plug since the line has a cover on the end. So I removed the plug, connected the line and tried it that way - no spark was visible (finally the crummy lights in my garage were good for something). I then checked the positive line to the coil (with the ignition on) for power. I have power at the coil. I then checked the points (again with the ignition on) and got a spark. I then checked the line at the top of the coil for spark, but did not see any spark. So, unless I did not do a test above properly (entirely possible), I think I may have a bad coil. I did remove the coil, it seems to have liquid inside, I heard once they can dry up and go bad. Seems kind of strange, I would loose the coil like that though. Just idling a few minutes. Also, if the coil is bad, would anyone have a NAPA part number for the 12v coil that fits the original mount? I did take my old coil to my FLAPS but the highly motivated person behind the counter said he had no way to test my coil and that he was not sure what coil I had, since the original was a 6v and mine has been converted to 12v, he then found a coil that "should work" for $60.00, and also said the part is not returnable. Now that's customer service. Needless to say, I decided to hold on that offer. Oh yea, I almost forgot, I did check the plugs, they all seem to have had a black layer of crud built up, so I did replace them all. But, this did not solve the issue, sorry Dr. I think we are getting close... Please advise on what you folks think. Thanks again. Gary -----Original Message----- From: WillysTech@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:WillysTech@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of kr98664 Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 6:22 PM To: WillysTech@yahoogro ups.com Subject: Re: [WT] FW: Dang - it won't run --- In WillysTech@yahoogro ups.com <mailto:WillysTech% 40yahoogroups. com> , "Gary J. Tolosa" <gtolosa@> wrote: > > I had submitted this yesterday with only one response, which was helpful > Well, let's consider it was running okay within recent history, so odds are likely against any sort of catastrophic failure. My first thoughts were the spark plugs have fouled. These old engines aren't exactly the cleanest burning things, running on the rich side all the time, and way more so when the engine is cold and choke is on. It doesn't take much to foul the plugs under those conditions. I can notice the plugs loading up on my 2A when idling for any length of time. I have to romp on the engine a little bit to blow out the carbon. Often a few minutes of running with a heavy load, under full throttle, is all it will take. Back in the pre-PC days, we even had a special term for that, the (censored) tune-up. Since you can't get it started to perform a (censored) tune- up, I'd suggest yanking the plugs for a look see. With any sort of build up other than a dry, light tan coating, the plugs may not fire. Give 'em a good cleaning with some aerosol electronic cleaner, dry 'em with compressed air, and reinstall them and see what happens. I'm willing to bet DJ's entire collection of Dukes of Hazzard action figures (Yes, even the talking Boss Hogg) that your engine will fire right back up. However, since I'm lazy, and yanking plugs involves wrenches, there are three quick checks I'd make. Make sure you have a spark, like DJ described. Keep in mind a spark may be strong enough to fire in ambient air conditions, but not under compression inside a cylinder. No spark obviously equals bad. The presence of a spark doesn't guarantee it's a useable spark, but don't get too bogged down with that yet. I'd also suggest taking a looksee at the condition of the ignition points. They should be light grey on both sides and no rougher than very fine sandpaper, with no evidence of burning. I've no idea why this works, but pass a folded dollar bill back and forth between the points several times, and that will often clean up any light crud. The points need to be closed first, and once you spread them open, they'll clamp back down on the dollar bill. The other lazy man's thing to check is for the presence of fuel spraying down the carb throat when you cycle the throttle linkage. That's the accelerator pump at work, which tells you there is fuel present in the carb bowl. No guarantees the rest of the carb is working properly, but at least you can quickly confirm it has fuel. Don't get too bogged down with any of these last checks. You can check for the presence of fuel, spark, and clean the ignition points all in less than five minutes. After that, yank the plugs for a good cleaning before anything else. Make sure you let us know what finally fixes it, so I can rub it in DJ's face and finally get that talking Boss Hog doll of his. (Don't worry, DJ, I won't take your Daisy Duke memorabilia) Regards, Dr. Vern <!-- #ygrp-mkp{ border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:14px 0px;padding:0px 14px;} #ygrp-mkp hr{ border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrp-mkp #hd{ color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:bold;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0px;} #ygrp-mkp #ads{ margin-bottom:10px;} #ygrp-mkp .ad{ padding:0 0;} #ygrp-mkp .ad a{ color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} --> <!-- #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{ font-family:Arial;} #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{ margin:10px 0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{ margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;} --> <!-- #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;} #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;} #ygrp-text{ font-family:Georgia; } #ygrp-text p{ margin:0 0 1em 0;} #ygrp-tpmsgs{ font-family:Arial; clear:both;} #ygrp-vitnav{ padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;} #ygrp-vitnav a{ padding:0 1px;} #ygrp-actbar{ clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:right;} #ygrp-actbar .left{ float:left;white-space:nowrap;} .bld{font-weight:bold;} #ygrp-grft{ font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;} #ygrp-ft{ font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666; padding:5px 0; } #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{ padding-bottom:10px;} #ygrp-vital{ background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;} #ygrp-vital #vithd{ font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text-transform:uppercase;} #ygrp-vital ul{ padding:0;margin:2px 0;} #ygrp-vital ul li{ list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee; } #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{ font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-align:right;padding-right:.5em;} #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{ font-weight:bold;} #ygrp-vital a{ text-decoration:none;} #ygrp-vital a:hover{ text-decoration:underline;} #ygrp-sponsor #hd{ color:#999;font-size:77%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov{ padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{ padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{ list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{ text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;} #ygrp-sponsor #nc{ background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad{ padding:8px 0;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{ font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;line-height:122%;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ text-decoration:none;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ text-decoration:underline;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ margin:0;} o{font-size:0;} .MsoNormal{ margin:0 0 0 0;} #ygrp-text tt{ font-size:120%;} blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;} .replbq{margin:4;} --> ____________________________________________________________________________________ Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. 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SF #150718 You are exactly right. They can and do fail just like that. SF toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: snakespit1934 To: WillysTech@... Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 11:51 PM Subject: Re: [WT] FW: Dang - it won't run (UPDATE) I have been told that is the nature of coils. They are either good, or they are bad. No in-between; when they die, they do it suddenly, with no fooling around. A 12 Volt coil should be no problem to find, including a mount, if the old mount doesn't fit. -Denver (Hemet, CA) --- In WillysTech@..., "Gary J. Tolosa" <gtolosa@...> wrote: > > Thanks again for the great input/guidance, here is what I found.... > > I first checked the accelerator pump and verified gas is getting > into the carb. > > Next, I checked for a spark on the spark plug, I did the test as > DJ described, holding the line 1/4 inch from the plug, ignition on > and tried to start, I did not see a spark, but was not sure about > the distance of the line to the plug since the line has a cover on > the end. So I removed the plug, connected the line and tried it > that way - no spark was visible (finally the crummy lights in my > garage were good for something). > > I then checked the positive line to the coil (with the ignition on) > for power. I have power at the coil. > > I then checked the points (again with the ignition on) and got > a spark. > > I then checked the line at the top of the coil for spark, but did > not see any spark. > > So, unless I did not do a test above properly (entirely possible), > I think I may have a bad coil. I did remove the coil, it seems to > have liquid inside, I heard once they can dry up and go bad. > > Seems kind of strange, I would loose the coil like that though. Just > idling a few minutes. > > Also, if the coil is bad, would anyone have a NAPA part number > for the 12v coil that fits the original mount? I did take my old > coil to my FLAPS but the highly motivated person behind the > counter said he had no way to test my coil and that he was > not sure what coil I had, since the original was a 6v and mine > has been converted to 12v, he then found a coil that "should > work" for $60.00, and also said the part is not returnable. Now > that's customer service. Needless to say, I decided to hold > on that offer. > > Oh yea, I almost forgot, I did check the plugs, they all seem > to have had a black layer of crud built up, so I did replace them > all. But, this did not solve the issue, sorry Dr. > > I think we are getting close... > Please advise on what you folks think. > > Thanks again. > > Gary > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: WillysTech@... [mailto:WillysTech@...] On > Behalf Of kr98664 > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 6:22 PM > To: WillysTech@... > Subject: Re: [WT] FW: Dang - it won't run > > > > --- In WillysTech@... > <mailto:WillysTech%40yahoogroups.com> , "Gary J. Tolosa" <gtolosa@> > wrote: > > > > I had submitted this yesterday with only one response, which > was helpful > > > > Well, let's consider it was running okay within recent history, > so > odds are likely against any sort of catastrophic failure. My > first > thoughts were the spark plugs have fouled. These old engines > aren't > exactly the cleanest burning things, running on the rich side > all the > time, and way more so when the engine is cold and choke is on. > It > doesn't take much to foul the plugs under those conditions. I > can > notice the plugs loading up on my 2A when idling for any length > of > time. I have to romp on the engine a little bit to blow out the > carbon. Often a few minutes of running with a heavy load, under > full > throttle, is all it will take. Back in the pre-PC days, we even > had a > special term for that, the (censored) tune-up. > > Since you can't get it started to perform a (censored) tune- up, > I'd > suggest yanking the plugs for a look see. With any sort of build > up > other than a dry, light tan coating, the plugs may not fire. > Give 'em > a good cleaning with some aerosol electronic cleaner, dry 'em > with > compressed air, and reinstall them and see what happens. I'm > willing > to bet DJ's entire collection of Dukes of Hazzard action figures > (Yes, > even the talking Boss Hogg) that your engine will fire right > back up. > > However, since I'm lazy, and yanking plugs involves wrenches, > there > are three quick checks I'd make. Make sure you have a spark, > like DJ > described. Keep in mind a spark may be strong enough to fire in > ambient air conditions, but not under compression inside a > cylinder. > No spark obviously equals bad. The presence of a spark doesn't > guarantee it's a useable spark, but don't get too bogged down > with > that yet. > > I'd also suggest taking a looksee at the condition of the > ignition > points. They should be light grey on both sides and no rougher > than > very fine sandpaper, with no evidence of burning. I've no idea > why > this works, but pass a folded dollar bill back and forth between > the > points several times, and that will often clean up any light > crud. > The points need to be closed first, and once you spread them > open, > they'll clamp back down on the dollar bill. > > The other lazy man's thing to check is for the presence of fuel > spraying down the carb throat when you cycle the throttle > linkage. > That's the accelerator pump at work, which tells you there is > fuel > present in the carb bowl. No guarantees the rest of the carb is > working properly, but at least you can quickly confirm it has > fuel. > > Don't get too bogged down with any of these last checks. You can > check for the presence of fuel, spark, and clean the ignition > points > all in less than five minutes. After that, yank the plugs for a > good > cleaning before anything else. Make sure you let us know what > finally > fixes it, so I can rub it in DJ's face and finally get that > talking > Boss Hog doll of his. (Don't worry, DJ, I won't take your Daisy > Duke > memorabilia) > > Regards, > > Dr. Vern > > > > > > > > >
Kurt Valentine #150719 Same thing happened to me, coil just quit. Any generic 12V coil fits. Just make sure, like others have posted that it says "internal ballast" on it. toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Nov 19, 2007 7:46 AM, SF <sf@...> wrote: You are exactly right. They can and do fail just like that. SF ----- Original Message ----- From: snakespit1934 To: WillysTech@... Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 11:51 PM Subject: Re: [WT] FW: Dang - it won't run (UPDATE) I have been told that is the nature of coils. They are either good, or they are bad. No in-between; when they die, they do it suddenly, with no fooling around. A 12 Volt coil should be no problem to find, including a mount, if the old mount doesn't fit. -Denver (Hemet, CA) --- In WillysTech@..., "Gary J. Tolosa" <gtolosa@...> wrote: Thanks again for the great input/guidance, here is what I found.... I first checked the accelerator pump and verified gas is getting into the carb. Next, I checked for a spark on the spark plug, I did the test as DJ described, holding the line 1/4 inch from the plug, ignition on and tried to start, I did not see a spark, but was not sure about the distance of the line to the plug since the line has a cover on the end. So I removed the plug, connected the line and tried it that way - no spark was visible (finally the crummy lights in my garage were good for something). I then checked the positive line to the coil (with the ignition on) for power. I have power at the coil. I then checked the points (again with the ignition on) and got a spark. I then checked the line at the top of the coil for spark, but did not see any spark. So, unless I did not do a test above properly (entirely possible), I think I may have a bad coil. I did remove the coil, it seems to have liquid inside, I heard once they can dry up and go bad. Seems kind of strange, I would loose the coil like that though. Just idling a few minutes. Also, if the coil is bad, would anyone have a NAPA part number for the 12v coil that fits the original mount? I did take my old coil to my FLAPS but the highly motivated person behind the counter said he had no way to test my coil and that he was not sure what coil I had, since the original was a 6v and mine has been converted to 12v, he then found a coil that "should work" for $60.00, and also said the part is not returnable. Now that's customer service. Needless to say, I decided to hold on that offer. Oh yea, I almost forgot, I did check the plugs, they all seem to have had a black layer of crud built up, so I did replace them all. But, this did not solve the issue, sorry Dr. I think we are getting close... Please advise on what you folks think. Thanks again. Gary -----Original Message----- From: WillysTech@... [mailto:WillysTech@...] On Behalf Of kr98664 Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 6:22 PM To: WillysTech@... Subject: Re: [WT] FW: Dang - it won't run --- In WillysTech@... <mailto:WillysTech%40yahoogroups.com> , "Gary J. Tolosa" <gtolosa@> wrote: I had submitted this yesterday with only one response, which was helpful Well, let's consider it was running okay within recent history, so odds are likely against any sort of catastrophic failure. My first thoughts were the spark plugs have fouled. These old engines aren't exactly the cleanest burning things, running on the rich side all the time, and way more so when the engine is cold and choke is on. It doesn't take much to foul the plugs under those conditions. I can notice the plugs loading up on my 2A when idling for any length of time. I have to romp on the engine a little bit to blow out the carbon. Often a few minutes of running with a heavy load, under full throttle, is all it will take. Back in the pre-PC days, we even had a special term for that, the (censored) tune-up. Since you can't get it started to perform a (censored) tune- up, I'd suggest yanking the plugs for a look see. With any sort of build up other than a dry, light tan coating, the plugs may not fire. Give 'em a good cleaning with some aerosol electronic cleaner, dry 'em with compressed air, and reinstall them and see what happens. I'm willing to bet DJ's entire collection of Dukes of Hazzard action figures (Yes, even the talking Boss Hogg) that your engine will fire right back up. However, since I'm lazy, and yanking plugs involves wrenches, there are three quick checks I'd make. Make sure you have a spark, like DJ described. Keep in mind a spark may be strong enough to fire in ambient air conditions, but not under compression inside a cylinder. No spark obviously equals bad. The presence of a spark doesn't guarantee it's a useable spark, but don't get too bogged down with that yet. I'd also suggest taking a looksee at the condition of the ignition points. They should be light grey on both sides and no rougher than very fine sandpaper, with no evidence of burning. I've no idea why this works, but pass a folded dollar bill back and forth between the points several times, and that will often clean up any light crud. The points need to be closed first, and once you spread them open, they'll clamp back down on the dollar bill. The other lazy man's thing to check is for the presence of fuel spraying down the carb throat when you cycle the throttle linkage. That's the accelerator pump at work, which tells you there is fuel present in the carb bowl. No guarantees the rest of the carb is working properly, but at least you can quickly confirm it has fuel. Don't get too bogged down with any of these last checks. You can check for the presence of fuel, spark, and clean the ignition points all in less than five minutes. After that, yank the plugs for a good cleaning before anything else. Make sure you let us know what finally fixes it, so I can rub it in DJ's face and finally get that talking Boss Hog doll of his. (Don't worry, DJ, I won't take your Daisy Duke memorabilia) Regards, Dr. Vern
Chris Lange #150720 I agree, as that has been the case on my CJ2A and 1928 Ford 6 volt coils. When they work, they work. When they don't, well they don't. No in-between. Your local Napa has what you need. Good luck! Chris Cortland, NY toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: snakespit1934 To: WillysTech@... Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 2:51 AM Subject: Re: [WT] FW: Dang - it won't run (UPDATE) I have been told that is the nature of coils. They are either good, or they are bad. No in-between; when they die, they do it suddenly, with no fooling around. A 12 Volt coil should be no problem to find, including a mount, if the old mount doesn't fit. -Denver (Hemet, CA) --- In WillysTech@..., "Gary J. Tolosa" <gtolosa@...> wrote: > > Thanks again for the great input/guidance, here is what I found.... > > I first checked the accelerator pump and verified gas is getting > into the carb. > > Next, I checked for a spark on the spark plug, I did the test as > DJ described, holding the line 1/4 inch from the plug, ignition on > and tried to start, I did not see a spark, but was not sure about > the distance of the line to the plug since the line has a cover on > the end. So I removed the plug, connected the line and tried it > that way - no spark was visible (finally the crummy lights in my > garage were good for something). > > I then checked the positive line to the coil (with the ignition on) > for power. I have power at the coil. > > I then checked the points (again with the ignition on) and got > a spark. > > I then checked the line at the top of the coil for spark, but did > not see any spark. > > So, unless I did not do a test above properly (entirely possible), > I think I may have a bad coil. I did remove the coil, it seems to > have liquid inside, I heard once they can dry up and go bad. > > Seems kind of strange, I would loose the coil like that though. Just > idling a few minutes. > > Also, if the coil is bad, would anyone have a NAPA part number > for the 12v coil that fits the original mount? I did take my old > coil to my FLAPS but the highly motivated person behind the > counter said he had no way to test my coil and that he was > not sure what coil I had, since the original was a 6v and mine > has been converted to 12v, he then found a coil that "should > work" for $60.00, and also said the part is not returnable. Now > that's customer service. Needless to say, I decided to hold > on that offer. > > Oh yea, I almost forgot, I did check the plugs, they all seem > to have had a black layer of crud built up, so I did replace them > all. But, this did not solve the issue, sorry Dr. > > I think we are getting close... > Please advise on what you folks think. > > Thanks again. > > Gary > > > > .
Chris Lange #150722 Gary, Walcks4wd.com has what you need, and is a lot cheaper than $60. Here is the link, if it doesn't work, just go to Walcks4wd.com and type in coil in the search box. Pretty cheap and if it doesn't fix the problem, you aren't out a whole lot. Good luck! Chris Cortland, NY Bunch of jeeps in a cold barn toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary J. Tolosa To: WillysTech@... Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 11:24 PM Subject: RE: [WT] FW: Dang - it won't run (UPDATE) Thanks again for the great input/guidance, here is what I found.... I first checked the accelerator pump and verified gas is getting into the carb. Next, I checked for a spark on the spark plug, I did the test as DJ described, holding the line 1/4 inch from the plug, ignition on and tried to start, I did not see a spark, but was not sure about the distance of the line to the plug since the line has a cover on the end. So I removed the plug, connected the line and tried it that way - no spark was visible (finally the crummy lights in my garage were good for something). I then checked the positive line to the coil (with the ignition on) for power. I have power at the coil. I then checked the points (again with the ignition on) and got a spark. I then checked the line at the top of the coil for spark, but did not see any spark. So, unless I did not do a test above properly (entirely possible), I think I may have a bad coil. I did remove the coil, it seems to have liquid inside, I heard once they can dry up and go bad. Seems kind of strange, I would loose the coil like that though. Just idling a few minutes. Also, if the coil is bad, would anyone have a NAPA part number for the 12v coil that fits the original mount? I did take my old coil to my FLAPS but the highly motivated person behind the counter said he had no way to test my coil and that he was not sure what coil I had, since the original was a 6v and mine has been converted to 12v, he then found a coil that "should work" for $60.00, and also said the part is not returnable. Now that's customer service. Needless to say, I decided to hold on that offer. Oh yea, I almost forgot, I did check the plugs, they all seem to have had a black layer of crud built up, so I did replace them all. But, this did not solve the issue, sorry Dr. I think we are getting close... Please advise on what you folks think. Thanks again. Gary -----Original Message----- From: WillysTech@... [mailto:WillysTech@...] On Behalf Of kr98664 Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 6:22 PM To: WillysTech@... Subject: Re: [WT] FW: Dang - it won't run --- In WillysTech@... <mailto:WillysTech%40yahoogroups.com> , "Gary J. Tolosa" <gtolosa@...> wrote: > > I had submitted this yesterday with only one response, which was helpful > Well, let's consider it was running okay within recent history, so odds are likely against any sort of catastrophic failure. My first thoughts were the spark plugs have fouled. These old engines aren't exactly the cleanest burning things, running on the rich side all the time, and way more so when the engine is cold and choke is on. It doesn't take much to foul the plugs under those conditions. I can notice the plugs loading up on my 2A when idling for any length of time. I have to romp on the engine a little bit to blow out the carbon. Often a few minutes of running with a heavy load, under full throttle, is all it will take. Back in the pre-PC days, we even had a special term for that, the (censored) tune-up. Since you can't get it started to perform a (censored) tune-up, I'd suggest yanking the plugs for a look see. With any sort of build up other than a dry, light tan coating, the plugs may not fire. Give 'em a good cleaning with some aerosol electronic cleaner, dry 'em with compressed air, and reinstall them and see what happens. I'm willing to bet DJ's entire collection of Dukes of Hazzard action figures (Yes, even the talking Boss Hogg) that your engine will fire right back up. However, since I'm lazy, and yanking plugs involves wrenches, there are three quick checks I'd make. Make sure you have a spark, like DJ described. Keep in mind a spark may be strong enough to fire in ambient air conditions, but not under compression inside a cylinder. No spark obviously equals bad. The presence of a spark doesn't guarantee it's a useable spark, but don't get too bogged down with that yet. I'd also suggest taking a looksee at the condition of the ignition points. They should be light grey on both sides and no rougher than very fine sandpaper, with no evidence of burning. I've no idea why this works, but pass a folded dollar bill back and forth between the points several times, and that will often clean up any light crud. The points need to be closed first, and once you spread them open, they'll clamp back down on the dollar bill. The other lazy man's thing to check is for the presence of fuel spraying down the carb throat when you cycle the throttle linkage. That's the accelerator pump at work, which tells you there is fuel present in the carb bowl. No guarantees the rest of the carb is working properly, but at least you can quickly confirm it has fuel. Don't get too bogged down with any of these last checks. You can check for the presence of fuel, spark, and clean the ignition points all in less than five minutes. After that, yank the plugs for a good cleaning before anything else. Make sure you let us know what finally fixes it, so I can rub it in DJ's face and finally get that talking Boss Hog doll of his. (Don't worry, DJ, I won't take your Daisy Duke memorabilia) Regards, Dr. Vern

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