Re: DCC system resets when accelerating locomotives
Hi Phil ? You said NCE returned the PowerCab saying it is working normally. You said you tested the PowerCab on a circle of track and you can run locos. You said you do the ¡°Coin Test¡± and the PowerCab shuts down. Was this on the LAYOUT or on the test circle of track? ? If on the layout, then there is nothing wrong with the layout. If on the test circle, then there could be a problem with your layout. ? Saying the PowerCab Ammeter shows ZERO when connected to the layout, with a loco on track, suggests: There¡¯s a wiring issue to the layout. A problem with the PCP (fascia panel). A problem with the Flat Cable A problem with the PowerCab, but NCE tested it okay. ? Is the PCP (fascia panel) LED illuminated with the PowerCab plugged in? ? If yes, place a 12 Volt 5 to 20 Watt Automotive lamp (Tail Lamp), ¡°across¡± the track. Does the lamp illuminate? What wattage lamp did you use? What does the PowerCab¡¯s Ammeter display? Try the lamp in different places on the layout. ? All of the above confirms whether you¡¯re getting power to the layout. ? With the lamp illuminating, there¡¯s nothing wrong with the PowerCab, wiring etc, the problem is in the loco. ? Lamp NOT illuminating, problem with PowerCab and/or wiring. ? You have to identify the EXACT problem to rectify the culprit. ? Please get back to us with your results. ? Regards Marcus ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Phil T.
Sent: Tuesday, 21 September 2021 5:00 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] DCC system resets when accelerating locomotives? Thanks. I do have a Power Cab, and I have repeated tried five or six different locomotives by themselves, with no other locos or cars on the tracks. Thank you all for your help! ? It might be other reasons, but this as happened on our museum layout a number of times, and it has always been too many sound-equipped locomotives and/or lighted cars in the same block.? Too much amperage draw which looks to the system like a short.? Lighted passenger cars are often overlooked as a sink I agree with Don, try running a train with a single locomotive through the section, stop and then start, then add a locomotive, and another, and so on, yu should reach a maximum that the system can take.? Jerry Michels
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On Monday, September 20, 2021, 03:08:31 PM CDT, JoAnn Donaldson via groups.io <joannplano2005@...> wrote:
I also have a SPROG system. It is setup to do either and HO or N Scale Engine. Track is long enough to check running and sound.
JoAnn AB8YZ
On Sunday, September 19, 2021, 08:02:52 PM CDT, Wil Davis <wdavis5069@...> wrote:
I agree with Jim.? The Power Cab is worth every penny.? The boosters may cost more, but the PC is able to program anything I have been to throw at it, Even a couple of Large Scale Engines.? There are some that draw more than 2 amps when running, but it doesn't take that much power to program.? I am not saying you can program any large scale engine.
I have never had any trouble programming over 100 HO scale engines.
Wil
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I also have a SPROG system. It is setup to do either and HO or N Scale Engine. Track is long enough to check running and sound.
JoAnn AB8YZ
On Sunday, September 19, 2021, 08:02:52 PM CDT, Wil Davis <wdavis5069@...> wrote:
I agree with Jim.? The Power Cab is worth every penny.? The boosters may cost more, but the PC is able to program anything I have been to throw at it, Even a couple of Large Scale Engines.? There are some that draw more than 2 amps when running, but it doesn't take that much power to program.? I am not saying you can program any large scale engine.
I have never had any trouble programming over 100 HO scale engines.
Wil
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Re: DCC system resets when accelerating locomotives
Hi Phil,
I'm still perplexed by your problem.? Since you have your Power Cab displaying track current, what is the last reading you see before the system resets?
Are you maybe using a wall transformer other than the one that came with Power Cab?
At the moment, I'm still thinking something is pulling down the Power Cab's power supply.
If you are not reading anything when no loco is on the track, that is good.
Locos that are in need of maintenance could draw more power than one in tip-top shape, but a loco that does that I don't think would cause the Power Cab to reset.
What scale do you model?
Regarding your high resistance, that still probably isn't causing your resetting problem.
Allan?
Wiring for DCC
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Re: DCC system resets when accelerating locomotives
Thanks. I do have a Power Cab, and I have repeated tried five or six different locomotives by themselves, with no other locos or cars on the tracks.
Thank you all for your help!
Phil
It might be other reasons, but this as happened on our museum layout a number of times, and it has always been too many sound-equipped locomotives and/or lighted cars in the same block.? Too much amperage draw which looks to the system like a short.? Lighted passenger cars are often overlooked as a sink I agree with Don, try running a train with a single locomotive through the section, stop and then start, then add a locomotive, and another, and so on, yu should reach a maximum that the system can take.? Jerry Michels
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Re: DCC system resets when accelerating locomotives
First, you talk about ¡°heavy¡± resistance. Do you mean high resistance?? Yes.
If so, what reading did you get?? I'm not sure. Looked like 2.1 but I'm not sure how to read the?meter.
If the suitcase connector did not go together just right, you might a high resistance or nothing at all.? High resistance in wires going to your track is something you do need to fix.? I don¡¯t think a high resistance is the cause of your Power CAB resetting. I appreciate that. ? Regarding the Power Pro resetting, I¡¯m thinking you have a load, like a locomotive that is drawing just enough current to pull the power supply for the Power Pro down enough that causes it to reset.? The Power Pro has a neat feature where it can display track current.? (Note:? I believe this only works with the Power Pro and I do not think it works if you got a SB5.)? With no locomotive or any lighted cars on the track, the reading should be zero or nearly so.? If you are reading an amp or more, something is definitely wrong.? ?My Power Cab reads zero amps with no cars on the track.
Thanks for your detailed analysis. I'm going to search for whatever could be creating the excess load. I wonder if it could be a lack of maintenance on the locomotives?
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Re: Seeking reversing section input
Hi Folks...
A late contribution/suggestion: if I were doing it, I would remove the three turnouts on the red track starting above the word Westfield and moving to the northeast. That also removes the track and passing siding above Westfield, but that track could become a switchback from the blue loop at the lower left. That makes the operation more visible and manageable. Then, if you still want reversing sections, you could use either the rightmost loop (make it purple) or the blue loop at the very bottom of the picture.
Or not...
...Tom
On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 7:47 AM Jim Betz < jimbetz@...> wrote: Nick,
? I -still- don't see it (a train that reverses direction and goes forward at all times).
Even trying to follow others explanations.
? Would you please do this for me/us?? Add several "letters" to the drawing
(A, B, C, etc.) and then tell us the sequence that you think produces a train
that has reversed itself.? Also please add in what you mean by "yard" (I think
I know but I want to be sure).??
? I have gone thru "running a train on the drawing with my cursor" many times
and I keep coming up with the need for a backing move in order to produce a
path that the train will be reversed.? I can do that - easily - in more than one
way.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - Jim
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Re: Seeking reversing section input
Nick,
? I -still- don't see it (a train that reverses direction and goes forward at all times).
Even trying to follow others explanations.
? Would you please do this for me/us?? Add several "letters" to the drawing
(A, B, C, etc.) and then tell us the sequence that you think produces a train
that has reversed itself.? Also please add in what you mean by "yard" (I think
I know but I want to be sure).??
? I have gone thru "running a train on the drawing with my cursor" many times
and I keep coming up with the need for a backing move in order to produce a
path that the train will be reversed.? I can do that - easily - in more than one
way.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - Jim
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I agree with Jim.? The Power Cab is worth every penny.? The boosters may cost more, but the PC is able to program anything I have been to throw at it, Even a couple of Large Scale Engines.? There are some that draw more than 2 amps when running, but it doesn't take that much power to program.? I am not saying you can program any large scale engine.
I have never had any trouble programming over 100 HO scale engines.
Wil
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Re: Seeking reversing section input
Jim,
?
If the drawing is accurate then there is a rail phasing problem but not
where Nick thinks it is. The layout can easily be divided into three power
districts.
?
In my opinion power district #1 should be the red and purple areas. Power
district #2 should thee the aqua area. Power district #3 should be the green
area.
?
My reasoning is as follows.
?
The purple and red power districts form one big loop with a long siding
that connects to the aqua power district.
?
The aqua power district is one long spur with several sidings at the end of
the line.
?
The green power district is where there are rail phasing issues are
located. One end of the green power districts connects to the aqua power
district. The other end of the green power district connects to the purple/red
power district in four places and diverges into the purple/red power district in
both east and west bound directions.
?
Thus the purple/red power district only needs a circuit breaker. The aqua
power district only needs a circuit breaker. The green power district needs both
a circuit breaker and rail phasing device.
?
Thus when a train crosses the power district boundary between green and
aqua the rail phasing device in the green power district matches the rail
phasing in the aqua power district.
?
Thus when a train crosses the power district boundary between green and
purple/red the rail phasing device in the green power district matches the rail
phasing in the purple/red power district.
?
Note there is nothing in the DCC rules that limits the size of the rail
phasing section.
?
There are several circuit breakers and rail phasing devices (reverse loops)
on the market that can easily get the job done.
?
Should I own the layout and should I have a lot of engines with sound and
should I be a HO scale modeler I would power the purple/red power district with
the command station, I would power the aqua power district with a booster, and I
would power the green power district with a booster that has auto rail phasing
capabilities.
?
Just my thoughts
?
Al Silverstein
?
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From: whmvd
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 5:50 AM
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Seeking reversing section
input
?
Jim,
?
"A reversing situation is a path where a train, moving in the forward
direction only - can change directions across the same track."
?
That's one of two. The other is a reversal triangle or wye.
?
There's also the trusty turntable, where a loco can pull of the reversing
trick without moving at all.
?
Wouter
?
On Sun, 19 Sept 2021 at 09:30, Jim Betz
<jimbetz@...> wrote:
Nick,
?
I don't see a "reversing section".? A reversing situation is a path where
a train,
moving in the forward direction only - can change directions
across the same
track.? I see how trains on your layout can go either
way on "the purple track" -
but not without a backing maneuver.? What
am I missing?
? The track in red can be handled by an auto-reverser
... but I'm not certain it
is necessary.?
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
- Jim
_._,_._,_
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Re: Seeking reversing section input
Thank you all for your feedback so far.? Jim, the entire "purple" section in the original file allowed a train to exit the yard going right-to-left and re-enter the same yard left-to-right.? To get this right in my mind, I simply treated one rail as "black" and the other as "red" and then followed it around to see if the black wire was on the same side of the track at both departure and arrival points. All, I've uploaded a replacement file with what I think are the reversing sections in RED.? The balloon track in Galeton, no question is a reversing loop as that was a pre-existing feature that I'm bringing along to the new layout.? From the feedback and more thinking, I feel my best bet is to treat most of what WAS the purple line as a separate reversing section.? The reason I didn't treat the whole line as reversing is that between a train running that line and a yard switcher that may have to use part of that line while working the yard there could have been two locos entering the same section from different directions.? That may seem extreme, but it's a trade-off of using a PSX-AR (which I have) or another circuit breaker, so tomato/tomatoe. If anyone things I've gone off the rails with my thinking, please let me know, all input that helps me avoid costly or stupid mistakes is always appreciated!
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Re: Seeking reversing section input
Jim,
"A reversing situation is a path where a train, moving in the forward direction only - can change directions across the same track."
That's one of two. The other is a reversal triangle or wye.
There's also the trusty turntable, where a loco can pull of the reversing trick without moving at all.
Wouter
On Sun, 19 Sept 2021 at 09:30, Jim Betz < jimbetz@...> wrote: Nick,
? I don't see a "reversing section".? A reversing situation is a path where a train,
moving in the forward direction only - can change directions across the same
track.? I see how trains on your layout can go either way on "the purple track" -?
but not without a backing maneuver.? What am I missing?
? The track in red can be handled by an auto-reverser ... but I'm not certain it
is necessary.??
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?- Jim
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Re: Seeking reversing section input
Nick,
? I don't see a "reversing section".? A reversing situation is a path where a train,
moving in the forward direction only - can change directions across the same
track.? I see how trains on your layout can go either way on "the purple track" -?
but not without a backing maneuver.? What am I missing?
? The track in red can be handled by an auto-reverser ... but I'm not certain it
is necessary.??
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?- Jim
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I use a DCS150 for my main tracks. I use a Digitrax PR3 to program my locos. I have a dedicated programming track which I can switch between LocoNet and the PR3.
On Saturday, September 18, 2021, 01:08:59 PM CDT, Jay via groups.io <jayfmn@...> wrote:
Hi, I used a PowerPax several years ago. It died after 2 years,
I then purchased a Soundtraxx PTB100 to replace it & it's been working fine for years!!
Jay
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Hi, I used a PowerPax several years ago. It died after 2 years,
I then purchased a Soundtraxx PTB100 to replace it & it's been working fine for years!!
Jay
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? ... or if you are like me you use an NCE PowerCab for your "basic/initial programming".
The PowerCab is, quite simply, the best programming environment ... reliable, fast, and
easy.? I got one of these beauties back when I was primarily a Digitrax guy (and had a
"Zephyr in a box" for programming ... with a PowerPax) and have never looked back.
? There are guys who recommend other programming environments such as the
Sprog - I've tried almost all of those and haven't found them any better than my
PowerCab.??
? Additionally, since I'm now running NCE on the layout, I can use the PowerCab on
the layout as a ProCab.
? Yes, I have a "PowerCab Programming Track" that is on a dedicated test and
programming track (just some track on a board with a PCP attached to the board
and the track) that I use for all of my "initial set up of the decoder".? And I have
the ability, when wanted, to use JMRI against the layout using Programming On
the Main - and use that (POM) for stuff like speed matching, setting sound
levels for the actual layout (when needed, not usual), etc.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - YMMV ... Jim
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I had a power pax years ago and even then it only worked some of the time. I got a PTB100, maybe a decade ago and it has never failed me once.?
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I purchased a new Digitrax DCS52 and have problems trying to add four digit address to my BLI locomotives.? I can test drive BLI in analog mode but cannot do four digit.? I have heard that the DCS52 doesn't have enough power and I need to purchase a programming
booster.? Do you think the DCC Specialties Power Pax Programming Booster will help?? People have recommended this unit be installed between the DCS52 and the programming track.? I was told many DCC decoders need more power than the 52 has.? Do you think this
will help?
Thank You
Jim
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I purchased a new Digitrax DCS52 and have problems trying to add four digit address to my BLI locomotives.? I can test drive BLI in analog mode but cannot do four digit.? I have heard that the DCS52 doesn't have enough power and I need to purchase a programming booster.? Do you think the DCC Specialties Power Pax Programming Booster will help?? People have recommended this unit be installed between the DCS52 and the programming track.? I was told many DCC decoders need more power than the 52 has.? Do you think this will help?
Thank You
Jim
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Re: Seeking reversing section input
Nick, I agree with Tim.? I'd make the upper purple section from the red turnout as far back as your longest anticipated train your reversing section, or longer.? If you are using DCC, I'd recommend a version of the PSX-AR, as well as PSX devices for the rest of your railroad.? You'll find plenty of help on this and other group.io sites directing you to some form of "best practice" or another.?
Enjoy.
John?
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Re: Seeking reversing section input
Nick, after sending my previous message, I looked at your diagram again, and realized that you'll probably be best served by making your red section the auto-reversing section.
Sorry for any confusion.
Enjoy.
John
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Jim Betz
Swanny