Morgan,
That's interesting, but some context would help. Pennsy in 1952 still was running a lot of steam, so am I correct in thinking you're running mostly steam locos with the drivers picking up power from one rail, and the tender wheels from the other? I've had plenty of problems with steam locos going over unpowered frogs. I have far less with diesels, probably because they pick up power from more places, wider spaced than many steam locos. But, I went to Shinohara turnouts with live frogs to end my RR's problems with stalling on the frogs.
As for the point rails switching the power to the frogs, I've had the points of many Shinohara power routing turnouts fail to make reliable contact from the points to the stock rails. Sometimes simply cleaning out the area with a vacuum cleaner or brush is enough, other times more aggressive cleaning is needed. I use very fine (600 grit) sandpaper, folded back on itself. I place it in the gap, then push the point rail against the sandpaper and stock rail. Pulling the sandpaper out cleans the mating surfaces of the point and stock rail. I've not tried mineral spirits and graphite, maybe I will next time.
My 40 year old Shinohara turnouts are becoming erratic. Many times, it's because of lost connection through the rivet holding the moving point rails and the fixed rails together (the rivet also serves as the pivot for the moving point rails.) I've had to jumper some of those rivet connections with thin flexible wire to get reliable operation.
I've always lived in the northern USA, first in Wisconsin, now in Connecticut. Both places have cold winters and warm, humid summers. My homes have been air conditioned since before I had a permanent layout, so the basement conditions where the railroad has always been are quite stable, but humidity does vary a lot from summer (about 70% RH) to winter (about 20% RH).
Your mineral spirits and graphite seem worth trying. But, I expect your problems with the points switching rail power will increase with time. Much of the wiring most of us do is to avoid "sometimes" (intermittent) problems.?
I've found my locos run through my turnouts much more reliably with contacts on my switch machines routing power to the frogs and neighboring rails in parallel with the points' switching. Similarly, I've wired across the soldered joints in my rails. I can't say I've ever had a soldered rail joint fail, but I've read many times that wire jumpers should be added across those joints.?
So, all that "extra wiring", which I agree is a lot of work, is to make the trackwork more reliable, and therefore the railroad more fun to operate. As with most things, it's a matter of personal preference and YMMV. I'm glad you're having good results so far with what you are doing.
Don W Connecticut
-- Don Weigt Connecticut
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Here's what I did to solve a minor problem. I use Insulfrogs and rely on hand throw, hence point feed. I have over 24 turnouts. About a year or so after laying all track, and operating. One turnout had point feed failure. I simply cleaned with Mineral Spirits, using a microbrush. And followed up with a dab of graphite/same microbrush. That turnout is still functioning. And all turnouts function correctly - after 6+ years. No wires. No frog feed/the frogs are plastic.
So, all this nonsense about point feed is just that. I suspect that a dab of graphite from time to time would be a lot easier than wiring.
Admittedly this may be due to temperature, humidity, etc. But does this not make a lot of excess work unnecessary?
Morgan Bilbo, DCC since 8/18. Model PRR 1952.
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I went to the experiment link but did not find info about length. Need to know if different wire guages are needed due to various different lengths:
Here are feeder lengths from some sidings to buss wires: 14", 16", 17", 18", 20", 21".
Thanks.
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On 06/26/2024 9:06 AM CDT Allan AE2V <bigboy@...> wrote:
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All,
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Here is the link that tells you the max length a feeder can be for a given wire size:
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When done connecting a feeder, be sure to short your track and make sure your booster or electronic circuit breaker for the section trips.
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Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC
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Some of the feeders from sidings to the inner loop buss will be 24 inches.
I'm using 22 guage solid (6" or less) for feeders from mainlines to buss(14 guage solid).
Due to the 24" length of some of the siding feeders above, do I need to use a different guage wire??
Need buss wires to sidings. ?Can¡¯t rely on turnout power.
N&W Steam Only
On Jun 1, 2024, at 12:43?PM, 3CURLY3 via groups.io <3CURLY3@...> wrote:
Refer to 101 Track Plans? For Model Railroaders by Linn H. Wescott page 31. Plan #56 Dayton & Northern RR with 3 loops, 32", 30" and 28" radiuses. 14 guage buss and 22 guage feeders.? Each loop is a power district. Layout is NCE DCC.?
I eliminated the round house and turntable and added sidings similar to those on other end of layout. Sidings on both ends are coming off the inner 28" radius .??
My concern is do I need to attach buss wires to those sidings or do I rely on the switches to provide the power??
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Re: MRC DCC compatibility with Digitrax
All of the locos in question have CV19=0. Loco addresses are: 7484, 8039, 8137, 8146, 8242, and 9684. (that last one is a factory Scale Trains).
Lee
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Re: MRC DCC compatibility with Digitrax
¡° . . . . ESU and Soundtraxx decoders. His locos have 4-digit addresses and are not consisted either by advanced or universal consisting.? His locos run quite well on his home layout.¡± ? What specific four-digit addresses has he assigned to these locomotives. ? Best regards, ? Steve ? Steve Haas Snoqualmie, WA
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Re: MRC DCC compatability with Digitrax
Check CV 19 and CV29. CV 19 should be 0 for Digitrax's version of consisting.
CV29 should have the address bit set to either 2 digit or 4 digit addresses. There's online calculators that can help.
Puckdropper
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Re: MRC DCC compatability with Digitrax
I recently had a unit work fine at home, but it didn¡¯t want to respond at the club until we had cleared the consisting¡
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On Sep 22, 2024, at 10:25?AM, PennsyNut <fan4pennsy@...> wrote:
Yes. Some decoders require OPS, some Direct and some POM. Just to change the loco number from 03 to xxxx. But there is no logical reason for a loco to work on MRC and not on Digitrax/or NCE.
All locos on "03"/from reset should operate on any system. That's what the NMRA set up and "all manufacturers must adhere to".
There must be something else that's the problem.
This is what I was taught and have always heard. So if someone has a better solution, we need it here.
Morgan Bilbo, DCC since 8/18. Model PRR 1952.
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Re: MRC DCC compatability with Digitrax
Yes. Some decoders require OPS, some Direct and some POM. Just to change the loco number from 03 to xxxx. But there is no logical reason for a loco to work on MRC and not on Digitrax/or NCE.
All locos on "03"/from reset should operate on any system. That's what the NMRA set up and "all manufacturers must adhere to".
There must be something else that's the problem.
This is what I was taught and have always heard. So if someone has a better solution, we need it here.
Morgan Bilbo, DCC since 8/18. Model PRR 1952.
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Re: Surge Protector for DCC Command Station/Booster
When my first APC stopped working - and yes, there was a light to indicate that. All I needed was a new battery.
The APC cost ? $50. And the "APC approved" battery cost $30. But on Amazon, a replacement was $20. And that battery is still in the protector - now over 6 yrs.
So, like I mentioned, bought a second one for my wife's PC and that one cost $50. But no battery replacement yet. So both are now working over 6 yrs.
I looked up online and found it's listed as 720 joules. It has 4 outlets surge protector only and 4 more outlets battery back up.
So, IMHO, it's worth buying another for the MR.
However, online - my particular model has been discontinued. And the replacement is not battery replaceable. And Amazon don't show it, just the batteries. So, a new one will probably cost more. Another brand?
Morgan Bilbo, DCC since 8/18. Model PRR 1952.
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Re: MRC DCC compatability with Digitrax
Lee,
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At this point, you don't really have an MRC vs. Digitrax issue.
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If you reset the locomotives, the should run on the Digitrax system as address 3.
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I've seen at least one funky decoder.? Our club got a loco from someone who had passed away that we could not set to address 3 on our NCE PowerCab system.? We did get it set on a Bachmann system.? I don't know what the Bachmann system was doing differently than what I could do on the NCE system.
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I know there are decoders that can only be changed as ops mode programing on the main.? I don't recall which brands are like this.
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Allan
Wiring for DCC
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MRC DCC compatability with Digitrax
Group,
I realize this group is more for wiring problems, but please hear me out.? I have posted to both the Digitrax and MRC DCC groups with no definitive ideas.
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Background: I am (supposedly) the DCC guru of a club that uses Digitrax system. (DCS200 and 2 DB150 boosters). We run a variety of decoder equipped locos of all the major manufacturers with no problems. One club member has a Prodigy Advanced system with add on WIFI. He has several modern diesels from different manufacturers (Athearn Genesis, Kato, Walthers, and Scale Trains). Some have factory installed sound decoders while others have after market ones. ESU and Soundtraxx decoders. His locos have 4-digit addresses and are not consisted either by advanced or universal consisting.? His locos run quite well on his home layout.
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The problem is that none of these diesels will run on our club Digitrax layout. One loco has the headlight come on when it is put on the track. None have sound, lighting or movement control. Needless to say, this is quite frustrating to our member.
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We have resset the decoders with no change.
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One response had heard of a similar problem at a club layout. A CV had to be changed, but the responder couldn¡¯t remember specifics.
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So¡Can anyone on this group help?
Thanks much for your help.
Lee
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Re: Surge Protector for DCC Command Station/Booster
I forgot¡
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The indicator lights indicating replacement are more than important, they are essential! Without this feature, it is impossible to know when the Surge will need to be replaced...
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The Surge Protector is equipment like any other. Which means that its lifespan depends on use. The longer the Surge does its job, the less its lifespan.
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Thank you for the scoop Allan Gartner
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Re: Surge Protector for DCC Command Station/Booster
Hello again Morgan!
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I'm happy to share with you!
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I don't know why other DCC manufacturers don't indicate this very relevant information!? The cost? The fear of manufacturers that potential customers will think that their products are at risk, unreliable?!
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Yet it¡¯s just common sense!
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Is it necessary to wear a seat belt to use your car? No ! BUT, it is your life that is at stake...
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It¡¯s the same thing with the Surge Protector and a DCC system. It doesn't matter the brand.
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The capacity of Surge Protectors is directly linked to the devices to be protected. Joule is the unit of measurement to determine the correct format. According to the EATON website, there are three main groups. Less than 1000 Joules, between 1000 and 2000 Joules, and more than 3000 Joules. These groups depend on the size of the equipment to be protected. It is not recommended to purchase a Surge of less than 660 Joules.
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To protect a PC, you must provide at least 1000 Joules. More is better...But how much ? I don't know. The price?! Too much is like not enough...
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For DCC, I'm too new to help you choose the right format. Given that these devices do not consume very much energy, I purchased a Tripp Lite Surge Protector (powerbar) of 1340 Joules, model TLM626. Because I use it to repair and maintain locomotives, and to program and install ESU decoders. These products are sensitive to Transient Voltages.
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Did you know that simply running a locomotive generates Voltage peaks? Just dropping a locomotive on the network generates Voltage peaks. A reverse loop also generates tension peaks. In short, the causes of Transient Voltage are multiple.
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Eric
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Re: Surge Protector for DCC Command Station/Booster
Thanks Eric.
I find it extremely interesting and important.
If NCE recommends one. Why don't Digitrax or others?
And this is the first I've heard of any need of a super-upgraded surge protector being needed or useful for DCC.
I do use simple surge protectors for some separate items. Our TV is plugged into one. But those are for shorts or electrical surges/spikes in 120v when they go up rapidly. ? Isn't this correct?
So, yes, any 120v surge protector can work with a TV. Or a PC.
But the APC for my PC had been a great investment. Many a time we've had outages/called brown outs? And that APC shut down my PC and saved every bit of data on it. That's why I bought a second one for my wife's PC.
So, now that we are discussing such a need for our DCC layouts/or even DC. We need to know what is best.
Morgan Bilbo, DCC since 8/18. Model PRR 1952.
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Re: Surge Protector for DCC Command Station/Booster
Hello everyone!
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I cannot answer Morgan's question. This is beyond my knowledge. I only know about Tripp Lite from my research. APC products appear to be rare in Canada.
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Personally, I opted for Tripp Lite because of the many models available through Amazon. The information is very detailed.
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However, for Kurt, when we know the possible causes in a home and the path of the impact of a power surge, it is obvious that the Surge Protector is an essential safety to protect the Command Station/Booster. Not for power surges coming from the layout, but from inside your house.
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This is up to you, but it is additional security for your DCC system.
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If NCE recommends it, it¡¯s because it¡¯s important!
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I highly recommend checking out the Eaton website. There is a lot of information in the Surge Protector section.?
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Once you read, you will understand the reasoning for installing this equipment.?
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Happy reading!
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Eric
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Re: Surge Protector for DCC Command Station/Booster
I don¡¯t think a surge protector would have any major effect on DCC Command stations because they are protecting just the power supply itself not specifically the Command Station.?
Kurt
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On Sep 19, 2024, at 11:37?AM, PennsyNut <fan4pennsy@...> wrote:
? I mentioned that I use APC surge protectors for our PC's. So how will they work for MR and DCC? Anyone know for sure?
i.e. Do APC's have "these MOV and TVS diodes"???????????????????????????????????????? Morgan Bilbo, DCC since 8/18. Model PRR 1952.
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Re: Surge Protector for DCC Command Station/Booster
I mentioned that I use APC surge protectors for our PC's. So how will they work for MR and DCC? Anyone know for sure?
i.e. Do APC's have "these MOV and TVS diodes"???????????????????????????????????????? Morgan Bilbo, DCC since 8/18. Model PRR 1952.
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Re: Surge Protector for DCC Command Station/Booster
The best surge protectors will use MOVs and TVS Diodes. The diodes react very quickly but cannot handle large amounts of power. The MOVs can handle the power but are slower.
A well designed MOV unit can react within one microsecond and this is sufficient for AC line protection. The DCC side would work best with something faster as solid state electronics are very intolerant of over voltage situations.
Ken Harstine
413-250-8298
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Re: Surge Protector for DCC Command Station/Booster
Thank's for the scoop and your experience!
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Eric
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Re: Surge Protector for DCC Command Station/Booster
I have two APC surge protectors. One on my PC and the other on my wife's. I can recommend them.
Morgan Bilbo, DCC since 8/18. Model PRR 1952.
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David Gibbons
littlered
Ken Harstine