I just wondered why I don't see/hear questions about using magnet wire.? Are there reasons to avoid such wire or is it a matter of convenience in handling or some other factors??
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Gary,
You’re quite welcome. That’s what this list serve is for!
Bill D
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Thanks Bill D for your response! Not being that familiar with HO products, I found the Shinohara double crossover configuration quite interesting with respect to Subject topic. I suspect later locomotive products with DCCC installed do in fact include some type of current keeper. I also suspect with the lesser power required for HO locos, the size of that component does not need to be as large as the larger scale S and O locos.? ?Gary Chudzinski
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Gary,
I have been reinstalling my entire track — long story — with Peco track and turnouts. I had wired my turnouts with jumpers to directly power the turnout rails (the moving parts — eliminating reliance on contact with the powered rails at the turn-out end), and planned to power the frogs through my switch machines. None of the switch machines have been installed yet.
In running test engines to be sure that re-installed segments of track and the turnouts were installed properly (and wouldn’t result in derailments that had plagued the original layout), I found that my engines ran well through all the turnouts even though the frogs were not yet powered. I believe this could be attributable to keep alives becoming “standard” on most modern engines from better manufacturers. Mine are from MTH and BLI.
On the other hand, the steam locos in question were fairly large (an understatement), including an MTH N&W “J” (4-8-4) and a BLI N&W “A” (2-6-6-4). Interestingly, I did not experience any issues with an older Bachman DC steam loco (a Mikado) that was converted to DCC (I’m not aware of whether the decoder that my local hobby shop installed included a keep alive capacitor).
In any event, I’m going to defer powering my frogs for now.
If you can use size 6 turnouts, Peco makes a new turnout that is terrific. I think it’s called a “Unifrog”. Greatly reduced frog length and powered (hard wired) moving rail components that eliminate need for jumpers. Currently only available in No. 6 turnouts.
Bill D
N&W Steam Only
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Re: Building a yard ladder -Slightly Off-Topic?
As noted, this topic is 'off topic."? The original question has been answered.? Let's wrap it up and then I will delete the thread.
Thank you
Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC
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Several years ago a member of one of the io groups posted using a stapler to tie down wiring. ?What a great idea it replaced all my other methods. ?Adding a piece of .080 styrene to the bottom of the stapler near the head will prevent the staple from completely seating. ? This will maintain a space for a nylon zip tie or even a bread bag tie. ?First thing is to put the staple where needed and parallel with the wire. ?Slide the zip tie, etc through the staple and wire and cinch up. ?Leave a loop if all that is needed is holding the wire out of the way like a switch machine actuator/throw arm or string more wires at a later time. ?Very easy and cost effective. ?Mel
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Re: Building a yard ladder -Slightly Off-Topic?
True but to an extent. Look at all the proto yards that don't follow that rule. Especially when its a hump yard with the turnouts thrown by the tower operator. Or am I wrong? Sorry this is off topic, but I had to comment.
Morgan Bilbo, DCC since 8/18. Model PRR 1952.
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Re: DCC Bus reversing question
However to answer the original question…
You SHOULD be able to wire up an auto-reverser from DCC mains (or use an auto-reversing booster) to feed several PSX (or other brand) electronic circuit breakers that feed several CB protected districts inside a common reversing loop/section. Just make sure each of the circuit breakers react faster than the auto-reversing controller and that there is an initial section of track at both sides of the single AR loops district entrance wired before any CB protected track.
However I’m not sure you would want to do that as the troublesome areas will be at the turnouts and it sounds like costly non-effective overkill.
DonV
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Re: Building a yard ladder -Slightly Off-Topic?
Prototype yard throats, as much as possible, were designed so all the switch stands were on the same side of the lead for personnel safety. The switcher would be 'faced' so that the engineer could see the ground crew operating the switch stands.?
Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantment
On 08/08/2021 4:07 PM ROBERT HULTMAN <hultman@...> wrote:
?
?
?
Assuming the diverging tracks from the ladder turnouts run parallel to each other, the amount of straight track between one turnout's frog & the subsequent turnout's point rails would depend on the distance between track centers. ?In the US, back in the earlier days, maybe 40s-50s, the yard tracks were probably 13' on center, more modern yard design probably widens out the track center-to-center distance more than 13'.
?
Bob Hultman in Brentwood TN
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On Sunday, August 8, 2021, 01:33:04 PM CDT, <alynmar@...> wrote:
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When building a yard ladder is it acceptable to place your turnouts end to end or should there be some track in between the turnouts, if so what would the recommended track length be in OO scale?? ? ?Thank you for any suggestions.
Alan
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Re: Bachman DCC EZ track turnouts
Thank you, Glenn!
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away!"
On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 5:58 PM Glenn < ghazel@...> wrote: I don't think its possible. I think Bachmann turnouts draw power from the track.
-----Original Message-----
From: <[email protected]>
Sent: Aug 8, 2021 5:10 PM
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: [w4dccqa] Bachman DCC EZ track turnouts
I couldn't get anything from Bachmann regarding how to wire its DCC Onboard turnouts to my bus. Can anyone help me? Thank you!
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Re: DCC Bus reversing question
Blair/Don ... and all,
? You don't need to re-invent the wheel.? DCC works just fine as designed.? DCC wiring - if
you follow Gartner's recommendations - is also easy and fool proof (if you follow them
correctly).? Specific responses:
? 1) No you don't need to swap railsync wires - and you shouldn't do so.
? 2) Yes, you can use some kind of physical switch to "rewire" reversing
? ? ? ?sections.? Most guys like the automated aspect of a Reversing DCC
? ? ? ?circuit breaker.
? 3) The best (in my opinion) DCC circuit breakers are the PSX series.? They
? ? ? ?work and work well.? They were designed with sound in mind.? They are
? ? ? ?electronic (which makes them fast).? Yes, they cost a bit more than?
? ? ? ?other brands of DCC circuit breaker - yes, they are worth it.
? 4) A reversing section should not be up against another reversing section if
? ? ? you are using DCC circuit breakers.? They end up trying to out guess each
? ? ? other - and that competition usually goes on forever.? You can, with some
? ? ? breakers, set a different trip speed to prevent this ... but it is better to not
? ? ? have two reversing sections next to each other.? This is almost always
? ? ? possible thru careful selection of where your breaker boundaries are.
? 5) A reversing section should be "longer than the longest train you will
? ? ? ever run thru it".? It does not have to be "the entire loop" - but most guys
? ? ? will set it up that way and it's usually easier.? Another way to say this one
? ? ? is "you don't want both ends of the train - or two trains at once - crossing
? ? ? the reversing section".? Again, the breaker gets confused and, in this case,
? ? ? ends up competing with itself.
? Reversing breakers work like this:
? a) Situation normal.
? b) A short occurs.
? c) The breaker -temporarily- tries reversing the polarity of the reversing
? ? ? section.
? d) If that works it leaves it alone and the train continues to run.
? e) If it didn't work then you have an "actual short" and the breaker goes
? ? ? into "there's a short" status.
? f) Most modern DCC circuit breakers also have an automated Retry.
? ? ?They will wait a second or two and then retest to see if the short is
? ? ?still there - this is what allows you to throw the switch and "clear the
? ? ?short".
? On my layout I have just one reversing section - it is the huge loop in
staging - the staging is 5 tracks wide and 3 trains long.? All trains enter
(and exit) staging thru just one track that goes to a switch.? All of the
track past that switch is both Staging and the reversing loop.? I have it
wired with just one circuit breaker.? If it ends up that there are too many
trains in staging (amp draw too high) I will cut the power to some of the
tracks (the ones that the turnouts make "unavailable".
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - Jim
??
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Building a yard ladder -Slightly Off-Topic?
Assuming the diverging tracks from the ladder turnouts run parallel to each other, the amount of straight track between one turnout's frog & the subsequent turnout's point rails would depend on the distance between track centers. ?In the US, back in the earlier days, maybe 40s-50s, the yard tracks were probably 13' on center, more modern yard design probably widens out the track center-to-center distance more than 13'.
Bob Hultman in Brentwood TN
On Sunday, August 8, 2021, 01:33:04 PM CDT, <alynmar@...> wrote:
When building a yard ladder is it acceptable to place your turnouts end to end or should there be some track in between the turnouts, if so what would the recommended track length be in OO scale?? ? ?Thank you for any suggestions.
Alan
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Hold the stapler so the bottom rests flat on the wire and not on an angle. That way the hammer of the stapler will not touch the wires.
-----Original Message----- From: < [email protected]> Sent: Aug 8, 2021 4:47 PM To: [email protected] < [email protected]> Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] T-25 Wire Staplers
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Ken,
If you lighten the pressure on the stapler it will penetrate less. It takes very little practice and you can test with a piece of scrap. If you want a piece of plastic between, put a piece of tape on the wire.
jd
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On Sunday, August 8, 2021, 12:26:58 PM EDT, Ken Harstine <kharstin@...> wrote:
?
?
I am not seeing any T-25 staples with plastic to prevent shorting if the metal breaks through the insulation.? As long as only one wire is run under them it is not a problem but it seems like it is asking for a problem if two wires run under one staple.? Plastic insulation deforms under pressure and it seems like it would might break through the insulation on occasion and with enough time.
Regards,
Ken Harstine
?
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Re: Bachman DCC EZ track turnouts
I don't think its possible. I think Bachmann turnouts draw power from the track.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: < [email protected]> Sent: Aug 8, 2021 5:10 PM To: < [email protected]> Subject: [w4dccqa] Bachman DCC EZ track turnouts I couldn't get anything from Bachmann regarding how to wire its DCC Onboard turnouts to my bus. Can anyone help me? Thank you!
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Re: DCC Bus reversing question
That's a good point, Don.? Instead of a >10A DPDT to reverse the booster outputs, I could swap the Railsync signal wires.? If I dedicate a booster to each yard that would work, if I find a small solid state DPDT. Hmm.? Makes me want to resurrect my DCS100 and DB150 for staging and put my 8A booster elsewhere.
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Re: Building a yard ladder
I have found the pinwheel style of ladder to be very effective and compact while also being forgiving in clearances. With Peco C100, 7 turnouts give you 84 degrees curvature at the throat of an 8-track staging yard very nicely.
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Re: Building a yard ladder
If using PECO C100, they told me they're designed to give you 2" spacing if laid nose-to-tail.? If you want wider spacing, you can easily calculate a length based on the diverging angle(12*) and the desired additional length. Blair
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Bachman DCC EZ track turnouts
I couldn't get anything from Bachmann regarding how to wire its DCC Onboard turnouts to my bus. Can anyone help me? Thank you!
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Ken, If you lighten the pressure on the stapler it will penetrate less. It takes very little practice and you can test with a piece of scrap. If you want a piece of plastic between, put a piece of tape on the wire. jd
On Sunday, August 8, 2021, 12:26:58 PM EDT, Ken Harstine <kharstin@...> wrote:
I am not seeing any T-25 staples with plastic to prevent shorting if the metal breaks through the insulation.? As long as only one wire is run under them it is not a problem but it seems like it is asking for a problem if two wires run under one staple.? Plastic insulation deforms under pressure and it seems like it would might break through the insulation on occasion and with enough time.
Regards,
Ken Harstine
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Re: DCC Bus reversing question
I've only just begun to use auto reversing, and had no problems so far on my modest applications. But, the thought has occurred to be that boosters should have an external phase control. In cases like Blair's, the reversing could be controlled by some external event and not need to use auto reverse or an external switch or relay of any kind.
I'm surprised that it isn't a standard booster feature. It's simple enough to invert the driving signal from the command station to reverse the output phase. One XOR logic gate will do it... I may investigate adding that to my EasyDCC dual boosters.
Don Weigt Connecticut
-- Don Weigt Connecticut
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Jim Betz
Glenn