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The tinySA Ultra is level calibrated up to 6GHz but it will, with reduced dynamic range, go up to possibly above 10GHz. So I have this challenge for all tinySA Ultra users:?Can you demonstrate a real application (not just a signal generator) where you use the tinySA Ultra above 5 GHz? As a first step I welcome a measurement of the 5GHz WiFi band in max hold with some channels active Maybe a ham can try to observe the 5.7 or 10GHz band? Anything else? --
For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/
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On Fri, Dec 9, 2022 at 12:59 AM, Erik Kaashoek wrote:
The tinySA Ultra is level calibrated up to 6GHz but it will, with reduced dynamic range, go up to possibly above 10GHz.
So I have this challenge for all tinySA Ultra users:?Can you demonstrate a real application (not just a signal generator) where you use the tinySA Ultra above 5 GHz?
As a first step I welcome a measurement of the 5GHz WiFi band in max hold with some channels active
Maybe a ham can try to observe the 5.7 or 10GHz band?
Anything else?
? ?Funny you should ask Erik.? I was gifted an X-Band (10.5GHz) Gunn Oscillator transceiver in unknown condition.? After hooking it up to a 9V battery I was able to verify with my tinySA Ultra that at least the transmit portion is working.   Herb
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I have home made ham radio transverters up to 47 GHz. I use an Advantest spectrum analyzer together with a harmonic mixer up to 100 GHz to set them up.
When working with the harmonic mixer, I have to change the frequency of the local oscillator appropriately to detect spurs.
The TinySA ULTRA has automatic spur suppression (for steady signals) already implemented and this is a big help! I will welcome any extension of the TinySA Ultra range, it will make my job very easy.
I have already tested the 10368 MHz signal on the Ultra, the sensitivity is quite sufficient for my use. Amazing instrument!
Mirek
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On Fri, Dec 9, 2022 at 04:37 AM, MirekD wrote:
I will welcome any extension of the TinySA Ultra range
Current max freq for the Ultra is 12GHz. Not sure you will see anything above that as the Ultra will need to use the 5th harmonic and the mixer is used way, way out of spec. And I have nothing to test these high frequencies. Let me think about this. ? --
For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/r
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For me, the biggest benefit of Ultra is that I don't have to worry about spur removal. The sensitivity of the TinySA at 10 GHz is not bad compared to a pro harmonic mixer, and when setting up radio gear, I usually work with relatively strong signals. I have made measurements of the TinySA sensitivity for frequencies 8 to 18 GHz, always the oscillator gain is 0 dBm It is for 3rd, 4th and 5th harmonics. I've attached screenshots. The sensitivity is sufficient for working with amplifiers. Level calibration is important. Thanks for any efforts to extend the bandwidth! ![]() Mirek
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I have used it for work at 11Ghz to verify the STL signal at one of out stations. Yes it is lacking sensitivity, but since our transmit signal levels are at -5dbm+-1db at full power at the test port it works fine. Observed usable range is about 45db. I would love it to be more sensitive so I could see receive signals at the dish (~-70-50dbm) but no problem for now I ordered a 50db commercial amplifier (RLNA06G18G45D-H)
That should amplify the level enough to be usable. Btw, you do not want to know the price lol. But since I wanted to buy it for other lab tests anyways this was just an added excuse?to finally do it.
John
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The stop frequency on mine fails at just over 12GHz. How does it get to 20GHz? Does it have to be connected to the PC?
-- EA1AWY? Javier Muriedas? (Gijón, Asturias, Spain)
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On Sat, Dec 10, 2022 at 10:01 AM, <franciscm@...> wrote:
The stop frequency on mine fails at just over 12GHz. How does it get to 20GHz? Does it have to be connected to the PC?
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EA1AWY? Javier Muriedas? (Gijón, Asturias, Spain)
Javier, ? The released firmware for the tinySA Ultra has a high limit of 12GHz. Mirek was using a pre-lease firmware that beta testers used to help Erik determine the practical measurement range of the tinySA Ultra.? ?I was wondering when someone was going to question how Mirek performed his measurements above 12GHz. Herb
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Inside the locked internals menu is an option to enable the Ultra to go up to above 20 GHz As I never thought this would be useful I kept it inside the internals menu. You probably need a lot of input power to reach that high as there are massive conversion losses and all components are way, way out of spec.And you have to be carefully as any input above 6 dBm may harm the tinySA Is there any real use for the above 12 GHz range? --
For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/
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I agree that caution is needed, but for those who know what they are doing, TinySa Ultra is a good tool for checking frequency multipliers etc. You need to have a broadband power meter in addition to the tinySA. But that is part of the basic equipment of an amateur microwave lab. The same way to work with professional harmonic mixers.
Mirek
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I would appreciate the ability to calibrate the level to at least 12 GHz, this would take the possibility of using TinySA up a level. At least some users would use it.
Mirek
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You can change the frequencies in the correction table any way you like, up to any frequency? --
For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/
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Gracias Herb
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EA1AWY? Javier Muriedas? (Gijón, Asturias, Spain)
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I would argue for the possibility to calibrate the level directly in the calibration procedure (CONFIG...LEVEL CAL...) with the connection of an RF signal of known level. The correction table would then serve to respect the connected equipment, (cable, amplifier etc).
Mirek
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On Sat, Dec 10, 2022 at 01:14 PM, Erik Kaashoek wrote:
You can change the frequencies in the correction table any way you like, up to any frequency?
? ?The tinySA Ultra is a great platform for experimentation as Erik allows the user access to the correction tables to improve its measurement level and frequency if the user has the prerequisite equipment and technical skill to do so. ? ?Erik is pretty much limited to 6GHz in his home lab, but Kurt Poulsen has a microwave set-up that is to die for and lent his time and expertise in developing the correction tables that are used in the production tinySA Ultra. ? My guess is that ham operators and electronic enthusiasts will see the potential in the tinySA Ultra and articles will start appearing that extend the capability of the tinySA Ultra to 12GHz and above.? The software is an area where a guru could definitely fill a void and build a multi-platform application, such as nanoVNA-Saver, for the tinySA Ultra. Erik has done a fine job modifying Cathy's nanoVNA-App program for the tinySA, but his real expertise is hardware and firmware.? That is the main reason tinySA-App is not as robust as the hardware. Herb
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OK, I understand, thanks for the information. I'm sure the TinySA Ultra is an excellent device for HF, UHF and SHF enthusiasts. Certainly something to look forward to!
Mirek
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Hi Herb, MirekD and others It is correct I have the facilities to create correction tables beyond 6GHz actually to 18GHz. I am presently working on all the correction tables now the TinySA ULTRA is produced on pick and place machines and not hand soldered as the prototypes was, which has improved some characteristics.
I think it just is a matter of the ULTRA receive correction table and it takes just a split second to swap the original correction table specific for ULTRA (after a prior backup) with a new Ultra trial correction table. It is simply done in the terminal command screen of a terminal emulator program like KiTTY and first read the embedded Ultra correction table (and copy paste it to a text editor as a backup) and then copy paste the new experimental Ultra correction table delivered as a *-txt file Kind regards Kurt ? ? ? On Sat, Dec 10, 2022 at 01:14 PM, Erik Kaashoek wrote: You can change the frequencies in the correction table any way you like, up to any frequency?
? ?The tinySA Ultra is a great platform for experimentation as Erik allows the user access to the correction tables to improve its measurement level and frequency if the user has the prerequisite equipment and technical skill to do so.
? ?Erik is pretty much limited to 6GHz in his home lab, but Kurt Poulsen has a microwave set-up that is to die for and lent his time and expertise in developing the correction tables that are used in the production tinySA Ultra.
? My guess is that ham operators and electronic enthusiasts will see the potential in the tinySA Ultra and articles will start appearing that extend the capability of the tinySA Ultra to 12GHz and above.? The software is an area where a guru could definitely fill a void and build a multi-platform application, such as nanoVNA-Saver, for the tinySA Ultra. Erik has done a fine job modifying Cathy's nanoVNA-App program for the tinySA, but his real expertise is hardware and firmware.? That is the main reason tinySA-App is not as robust as the hardware.
Herb
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Thank you, Kurt, excellent work!
Mirek
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On Sat, Dec 10, 2022 at 01:32 PM, MirekD wrote:
The correction table would then serve to respect the connected equipment, (cable, amplifier etc).
In case this correction is not static it may be better to use a separate trace with TRACE/CALC/TABLE-TRACE and use the table to specify the cable/amplifier gain/loss and subtract this trace from your measured trace You can use 8 frequency/level points to specify the correction, in between frequencies will be linearly interpolated? The internal correction tables are best used to specify the tinySA itself so you do not need to change them often. --
For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/
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John Cunliffe W7ZQ
Kurt Poulsen