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The general advice with any framework is that you can test drive the behavior you want at a higher level of abstraction than the framework and wrap the framework bits with a thin layer that is under your control. The goal is to test drive "business logic" and not to test the framework.

The latest forum posts for Unity3d and TDD don't say much other than its not really possible and the tools available aren't great, they are also a few years old. Anyone know if there are design patterns or tools which have been developed in the past few years? brought to you by the letters A, V, and I and the number 47

We are about a week away from the GA release of a JUnit testing tool entitled "Justify". There is a long story (~12 years) that centers on the pursuit of a testing approach with "real objects" (or more precisely 'functionally equivalent services') at near-mock performance. If you are hands-on in the TDD space we would especially cherish hearing from you... whether it be comments on the documentation or the tool itself: http://pedcentral.com/hands-on/justify/ Show less

Hi Elliot, Overall that's a nice post, a good primer for TDD, I just wanted to pick up on a couple of points: 1) At no point do I remember you mentioning seeing the test fail /for the right reason/. In your first test you move from compilation failure -> test pass. At no point do you see your test actually fail because the assertion was wrong. I consider this quite an important step as it both verifies my test is correct and lets me know the diagnostics are useful when the test fails 2) You're using triangulation to reach your solution but for this problem I would suggest some steps could be avoided by applying DRY and removing duplication between the test + production code. I was running a session lately for some people experienced in TDD and when I talked about this they had an "Aha!" moment that lets them go from the specific to the generic solution quicker Because this is a toy example it might be worth pointing out how easy it is to actually mess this code up without tests, the usual way is that you write the code as you think about it and how the problem is presented: if (divisible by 3) Fizz if (divisible by 5) Buzz if (divisible by 3 and 5) FizzBuzz To the naked eye this /looks/ correct but doesn't work as expected. -- Maybe she awoke to see the roommate's boyfriend swinging from the chandelier wearing a boar's head. Something which you, I, and everyone else would call "Tuesday", of course.

Hi everyone, this is my first post... Just wanted to get some feedback on my blog post as a started to TDD: Elliot Chance - Let's Talk About TDD, Baby! Elliot Chance - Let's Talk About TDD, Baby! Let's Talk About TDD, Baby! - A Brief Overview View on elliot.land Preview by Yahoo

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This is definitely a case of "old wine in a new bottle." That said, if the particular bottling of the concepts speaks to an audience in ways that earlier formulations didn't, it has value. Much of what is written in part 2 reflects the weakness of earlier Java as compared to modern Java. I want to go back over the examples myself, working in C#. So I guess the bottling does even appeal to me! Charlie

Hi Josue, The articles are interesting and deserve due consideration. The code may be better: it’s largely a matter of taste. If I wanted to write an article showing that my approach was better than Kent’s, I’d just work until my code was clearly better, no matter how long it took, then claim that it was my approach that made it work. I’m not saying the author did that: I’m saying that it would be a good way to “show” that one method works better. Certainly one does a different level and style of testing in a language with static types than in one without. Also one types a lot of redundant type-related information. The trade-off is not clear. Personally, I do not find that doing “less typing” makes my code better, nor that it lets me go faster. I seem to be limited by my ability to think. I suppose if I were smarter than I am, my typing might slow me down, but I think for most of us, “less typing” shouldn’t be a high priority. Again, the articles are interesting and deserve due attention and thought. Then, readers should try the various approaches and find out what works best for them. Regards, Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way. -- Jessica Rabbit

Hello All, I found this blog posts about TDD and typing. The first is a introduction and the second is an example using the same example in the book of Kent Beck (Test Driven Development by Example). The author claim that thinking int the types first leads to a better code than the pure use of TDD as did by Kent in the book. More Typing, Less Testing: TDD with Static Types, Part 1 http://spin.atomicobject.com/2014/12/09/typed-language-tdd-part1/ More Typing, Less Testing: TDD with Static Types, Part 2 http://spin.atomicobject.com/2014/12/10/typed-language-tdd-part2/ Any thoughts? -- Abra?os, Josué http://twitter.com/josuesantos

Hi Mark, just a thought ... I would think that a TDD course would be about programming. Certainly mine would, with developers working in pairs. I’d be reviewing the team’s code after frequent iterations, answering questions, and so on. I don’t see how I could possibly provide value to 60 people at once. Generally Chet and I limit our CSD courses to 24. Ron Jeffrieswww.XProgramming.com You never know what is enough unless you know what is more than enough. -- William Blake

Mark others have noted the issue with 60 people. I don't think ObjectMentor really exists any more. As mention Industrial Logic has good people. From personal experience I can also recommend M Kelley Harris who calls his business sourcecell. Cheers Mark

Mark, [testdrivendevelopment] wrote: Maybe that's because Uncle Bob is teaching Clean Code in London at the moment. To be honest, I find good bang for the buck giving hands-on coaching with the code base of the programmers rather than "advanced" courses. Gets right to the heart of the issues they're having. A 60-person class seems pretty dilute. - George -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Folks. I recently moved to the US (NJ.. yes yes I know). If anyone is interested in me coming over and do some TDD and Beautiful Builds training (or team leader training), I'd love it if you dropped me an email to roy@... Here is the list and TOC of said courses: http://osherove.com/trainingoptions/ I'm pretty much working full time, but I have about 3 days a month where I can do outside training if needed. Cheers. May the force be with you. -- Thanks, Roy Osherove - @RoyOsherove - Author of "The Art Of Unit Testing"http://ArtOfUnitTesting.com ) - My blog for team leaders: http://5Whys.com

Industrial Logic does a lot of TDD training. Have you taken a look at IndustrialLogic.com. Full Disclosure: I'm an employee who does training at IL. -- Tim Ottinger, Anzeneer, Industrial Logic ------------------------------------- http://www.industriallogic.com/ http://agileinaflash.com/ http://agileotter.blogspot.com/

We've spent the last year broadening and deepening the use of test driven development in our organization, with varying levels of success. We continue to identify areas where we can further improve. As part of that improvement effort, we'd like to have a 2-3 day on-site Advanced Test Driven Development course in April 2015 for about 60 people. Any recommendations of good instructors, or well perceived courses? ObjectMentor offers an Advanced TDD course. The course outline looks like a good match. Unfortunately, they aren't responding to my phone calls or e-mail messages. -- Thanks! Mark Waite

After finishing our test automation project, we wanted deploy the tests to Heroku. Like our apps. This turned out to be a bit challenging because of the way Heroku works. I hope this post helps others who want to do the same! How to run your Robot Framework test suite on Heroku How to run your Robot Framework test suite on H... After finishing our test automation project, we wanted deploy the tests to Heroku. Like our apps. This turned out to be a bit challenging because of the way Heroku ... View on www.screenful.me Preview by Yahoo

Think classes, not objects. The Equals method defined by class Franc can access member variables of class Franc. Same as C++. -- C. Keith Ray * (650) 533-6535 * http://agilesolutionspace.blogspot.com/ * http://www.thirdfoundationsw.com/keith_ray_resume_2014_long.pdf

Hi, I'm sorry this may be a rather stupid question, but it's been bugging me as I'm reading through Kent Beck's book 'Test-Driven Development By Example' I think it might be my understanding of Java (I have a C++/Python background) but I was really hoping someone could clear something up! This happens a few times in the book so far, but here's an example: on Page 24, there's a Franc class which defines equals and sets the amount variable as a private int. Within the equals method a Franc object passed into the method has the amount variable queried. How does this work? I thought private variables couldn't be accessed outside of the object, but here you query it from another object? Is there some sort of friend class behaviour? Thanks so much for your help! class Franc { private int amount; Franc(int amount) { this.amount= amount; } public boolean equals(Object object) { Franc franc= (Franc) object; return amount == franc.amount; } }

It might sound like it's out of place here, but really, a lot of people learn TDD, and then they arrive in their team and *nothing* happens. Everyone agrees TDD is a good thing, and nobody seems to change their behavior. I am teaching a one day "Lead Better" course in NYC to talk about the "glue" that connect what you believe are the right things, to actually getting other people to start doing them. You can find more info at http://elasticnyc.eventbrite.com -- Thanks, Roy Osherove - @RoyOsherove - Author of "The Art Of Unit Testing"http://ArtOfUnitTesting.com ) - My blog for team leaders: http://5Whys.com - My favorite keyboard shortcuts: http://key.bo - +972-524-655388 (GMT+2)

I can thoroughly recommend NCrunch for TDD-ing. You never have to run the tests explicitly, it does it for you continually in the background.Worth the money. Cheers, Jon Payne