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[TDD] Experience with Advanced TDD courses delivered on-site?

Ron Jeffries All Messages By This Member #35616 开云体育 Hi Mark, just a thought ... I would think that a TDD course would be about programming. Certainly mine would, with developers working in pairs. I’d be reviewing the team’s code after frequent iterations, answering questions, and so on. I don’t see how I could possibly provide value to 60 people at once. Generally Chet and I limit our CSD courses to 24. On Dec 8, 2014, at 2:16 PM, Mark Waite mark.earl.waite@... [testdrivendevelopment] <testdrivendevelopment@...> wrote: As part of that improvement effort, we'd like to have a 2-3 day on-site Advanced Test Driven Development course in April 2015 for about 60 people. Ron Jeffries You never know what is enough unless you know what is more than enough. -- William Blake
Mark Waite #35617 Ron, our intent is to teach 4 sessions of 15 people each.? At least that's how we envision it working so that the sessions can be code intensive instead of lecture intensive. Is there an outline of the CSD courses which you and Chet teach so that I could look at them to see if they might address (or be customized) to the test driven development challenges we're seeing? Some of the challenges we've seen have been Database interactions - how to handle database schema version history, database volumes, and database operations Multi-component interaction tests (techniques to rapidly restore stateful components, etc.) User interface driven tests (when to use them, when to avoid them, techniques for managing their brittleness) Performance or throughput related tests Mark Waite On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 3:56 AM, Ron Jeffries ronjeffries@... [testdrivendevelopment] <testdrivendevelopment@...> wrote: toggle quoted message Show quoted text ? Hi Mark, just a thought ... I would think that a TDD course would be about programming. Certainly mine would, with developers working in pairs. I’d be reviewing the team’s code after frequent iterations, answering questions, and so on. I don’t see how I could possibly provide value to 60 people at once. Generally Chet and I limit our CSD courses to 24. On Dec 8, 2014, at 2:16 PM, Mark Waite mark.earl.waite@... [testdrivendevelopment] <testdrivendevelopment@...> wrote: As part of that improvement effort, we'd like to have a 2-3 day on-site Advanced Test Driven Development course in April 2015 for about 60 people. Ron Jeffries You never know what is enough unless you know what is more than enough. -- William Blake -- Thanks! Mark Waite
Steven Smith All Messages By This Member #35618 My employer, Falafel Software, also does quite a bit with testing and training.? We have experts in unit testing and writing testable code, as well as?instructors familiar with UI tests?using a variety of free and commercial tools for this purpose.? I'd love to come onsite to help, but my wife is expecting twins in late February so I expect she won't be quite ready for me to travel in April (though I would be available via webinar). Feel free to reach out if you're interested, though it sounds like there's certainly a wealth of qualified instructors on this thread already: steve.smith@... Cheers and good luck, Steve On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 7:06 AM, Mark Waite mark.earl.waite@... [testdrivendevelopment] <testdrivendevelopment@...> wrote: toggle quoted message Show quoted text ? Ron, our intent is to teach 4 sessions of 15 people each.? At least that's how we envision it working so that the sessions can be code intensive instead of lecture intensive. Is there an outline of the CSD courses which you and Chet teach so that I could look at them to see if they might address (or be customized) to the test driven development challenges we're seeing? Some of the challenges we've seen have been Database interactions - how to handle database schema version history, database volumes, and database operations Multi-component interaction tests (techniques to rapidly restore stateful components, etc.) User interface driven tests (when to use them, when to avoid them, techniques for managing their brittleness) Performance or throughput related tests Mark Waite On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 3:56 AM, Ron Jeffries ronjeffries@... [testdrivendevelopment] <testdrivendevelopment@...> wrote: ? Hi Mark, just a thought ... I would think that a TDD course would be about programming. Certainly mine would, with developers working in pairs. I’d be reviewing the team’s code after frequent iterations, answering questions, and so on. I don’t see how I could possibly provide value to 60 people at once. Generally Chet and I limit our CSD courses to 24. On Dec 8, 2014, at 2:16 PM, Mark Waite mark.earl.waite@... [testdrivendevelopment] <testdrivendevelopment@...> wrote: As part of that improvement effort, we'd like to have a 2-3 day on-site Advanced Test Driven Development course in April 2015 for about 60 people. Ron Jeffries You never know what is enough unless you know what is more than enough. -- William Blake -- Thanks! Mark Waite -- Steve Smith
Ron Jeffries All Messages By This Member #35619 开云体育 Hi Mark On Dec 9, 2014, at 7:06 AM, Mark Waite mark.earl.waite@... [testdrivendevelopment] <testdrivendevelopment@...> wrote: Ron, our intent is to teach 4 sessions of 15 people each.? At least that's how we envision it working so that the sessions can be code intensive instead of lecture intensive. Excellent, that allays my concerns on that score. Is there an outline of the CSD courses which you and Chet teach so that I could look at them to see if they might address (or be customized) to the test driven development challenges we're seeing? Some of the challenges we've seen have been Database interactions - how to handle database schema version history, database volumes, and database operations Multi-component interaction tests (techniques to rapidly restore stateful components, etc.) User interface driven tests (when to use them, when to avoid them, techniques for managing their brittleness) Performance or throughput related tests CSD provides a learning experience with practice doing TDD, pair programming, ATDD, continuous integration, and refactoring. It is intended for people with little or no experience in what amounts to the “XP Practices”.? We could surely build a course — or more accurately a workshop — such as you have in mind, but the CSD course is not that. We do not offer such a workshop as a matter of “course”. Regards, Ron Jeffries If it is more than you need, it is waste. -- Andy Seidl

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