¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Re: Astron RM-50M conversion


 

It should also be noted that a lot of "smart" chargers are not nearly as smart as they claim... and in particular, are just voltage setpoints and timers... where the current limit is just the same maximum capability of the charger and the current is not actually monitored at all in any of the charging modes, and so the current doesn't need to drop to zero in order for it to exit absorption mode.

For instance, the original IOTA IQ4 system simply runs the charge at the highest target voltage until either that voltage is reached OR 3.75 hours has elapsed, then it charges at that same voltage for 15 more minutes, then it drops to the absorption voltage for 8 hours (irrespective of how much current is/isn't being drawn), then drops to the float voltage. And then it stays there until either the voltage drops so low that it re-triggers bulk mode or the "equalization" timer fires, which also just re-triggers bulk mode.

So with one of those, you probably over-charge or under-charge your battery somewhat -- because 8 hours of absorption is just a guess that has nothing to do with the size of your battery, just like that initial 3.75 hour limit on bulk charging might not be nearly enough if your battery is large and heavily discharged. But at least it leaves absorption mode for float mode no matter how much your repeater draws, so there's that.

Matthew Kaufman


On Thu, Apr 24, 2025 at 12:48?PM Matthew Kaufman via <matthew=[email protected]> wrote:
I've gotten several direct messages about this, so let me go into some more detail?about what happens when you use a "smart" AGM charger, an AGM battery, and a DC-powered repeater system powered off that:

Bulk Charging - Slower, or never finishes if your charger isn't sufficiently oversized

Right after install or after a power outage where the battery got drained, the charger enters "bulk charge" mode. The charger is running in constant-current, supplying its maximum charge current, and watching the DC bus voltage to see it rise to the charge setpoint.. But the current is actually being shared between the battery and the repeater gear. If your repeater isn't that busy, it is probably only drawing an amp or two to run the receiver, controller, any accessories... and so that just extends the bulk?charge time a bit. But if the repeater is transmitting a lot, you'll stay in bulk charge for a long time... and if you haven't sufficiently oversized your charger, you'll essentially never finish bulk charging.

Absorption Charging - Overcharges the battery some (if there's a timeout) or significantly

Then once the voltage rises to the bulk charge setpoint, it switches to "absorption" mode, which is a constant voltage mode (depending on the charger, there may also be a current cap) and then the charger watches for the charge current to drop to (nearly) zero before it switches to float mode. But with even just the receive load of the repeater, it'll never get out of this mode, because it can never see the charge current drop low enough. Meanwhile, if there is a current cap on the charger of less than your transmit draw, any time you're in transmit you're actually draining the battery. And if that happens, you'll cycle the battery far enough that the voltage drops low enough for the charger to switch back to bulk charge mode. Some chargers do have a time limit on absorption mode, and so they'll drop out to float mode after a timeout... but odds are that the battery will have been overcharged for at least part of that time period. If the charger doesn't have a timeout, and many don't, you'll for sure overcharge the battery as it sits in constant voltage absorption mode forever, leading to offgassing, heat damage, etc.

Float Charging - May never enter this mode, but if it does, may end up cycling the battery

Finally, if by some chance the charger does make it to "float" mode (see above for why that either won't happen or will happen too late), the voltage is reduced to the float level and the charger runs in that (lower) constant voltage mode. As long as the charger doesn't also impose a current limit on float mode, it'll just sit here, with the charger mostly supplying your gear (after having damaged your battery in absorption mode). If it does have current limiting in float mode, which some of the "smartest" ones do,, then every time you exceed that current (e.g., while transmitting), you're draining the battery, imposing yet another cycle on the battery until the voltage gets low enough to trigger it back into bulk charge mode.

Solution

The only way around this is to use an AGM charger that has full load compensation.. The ones that try to monitor and model the voltage slope to do load compensation don't do a great job with intermittent loads like transmitters cycling on and off (they're designed for the?"charging an RV battery while the lights are on" kind of use cases), so what you really need is a charger that has a separate current shunt monitoring the load side current. These exist, mostly for the off-grid solar power industry, but they're a lot more expensive and complicated to wire up than the "battery-specific charger" that you almost certainly got recommended.

Matthew Kaufman


On Thu, Apr 24, 2025 at 9:01?AM Matthew Kaufman via <matthew=[email protected]> wrote:
The battery-specific charger still?sees the load (albeit via a voltage drop from the diode). Unless you do the "isolate battery via relay except when power is out" approach that others have suggested, you really are not getting what you think out of a smart charger if a load is paralleled. Diode or not.

On Thu, Apr 24, 2025 at 8:59?AM Jim Aspinwall via <jim.no1pc=[email protected]> wrote:
Interesting consideration...

We could implement as two isolated power sources... "diode OR" ?? Basically...

Supply ---> diode ---> Load?

Charger ---> Battery ---> LVD ---> diode ---> Load

The battery is under the care of a proper battery specific charger.??

Join [email protected] to automatically receive all group messages.