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Hi All I have revised the track standards document and moved it into a sub folder called 'O14 Standards' with the picture in a sub folder 'images'. If we find any more standards we can then put them in these folders which will keep it a bit tidier. I am still continuing to post the odd note about my slow progress on my Backwoods K1 Garratt on the 7mmnga group. Although this is 14mm gauge many of the issues are more general so I feel it better to continue to post there. Regards John C

G'day All, I have heard it said that Romford 14mm gauge axles are actually 14.2mm gauge for Sn3. According to John Clutterbug's recently posted standards info (in the files), there is an extra 0.1-0.2mm back to back on Romfords. Does it make all that much difference? I haven't laid any points yet, but the track I have is laid to 14mm exactly (even around 6" radius curves) and the Romfords track fine around it (I come from N using proprietry track so am unaware of the intricacies of handlaid finescale track). From what I can tell (left my calipers at work), its only the flange thickness that is different from the RCL wheelsets. If it does make a difference, would it be a good idea for us all to send our axles back to Romford saying they aren't to the right gauge and asking for suitable replacements? Regards, Mark K Sydney Oz Who spent an enjoyable weekend playing with 1:1 2' gauge trains

Hi Frank do uou have a drawing of your 14mm gauge regards Michel

Sorry I should have knocked off the previous messages, but it's in photo's as track gauges and I think it is O.K. Frank

I joined the group last week, then changed phone supplier and the computer went potty. It refused to go on line and would only receive emails. Any attempt to reply got the electronic version of a "raspberry". Hence the late response on wheel standards. By way of introduction, I have been working in 14mm gauge since Roy Link first introduced his range of kits, but wanted something a bit larger as well, so I am also building Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland stock. With Romford driving wheels I found I needed to skim 0.15mm off the boss on the back of each wheel, otherwise they climbed over the pointwork built with Roy Links track gauge. I have had no problems with Ultrascale EM profile wheels in this respect, although they do not have the self quartering feature built in and do not rely on a shouldered axle to set the back - to - back dimension. This is not too much of a problem if you are careful with assembly and take things one step at a time when setting up the frames, and I also prefer the Ultrascale crankpins to the Romford ones. Regards Steve

Mark, I just checked with the wizards at the 3mm Society and according to them, the Romford 14mm axles were made specifically for 7mm modelders who wanted an accurate 2ft gauge driver. They are not known to be anything other than 14mm. Matt

I have the answer, I think, to why some of us are in gauge and some out of gauge. There appear to be two Romford wheel profiles knocking about, I would suggest that one is the old 00 standard and is the other the RP25 standard. I've hit the problem with the old standard. That is why my flanges catch the chairs on C & L track. Not only are the flanges deeper, 1mm, they are thicker. 0.65 mm. If you measure what I think are RP25 wheels, the flanges are 0.8mm deep, and only 0.5mm thick. Hence to get the old profile to come to the same gauge you need to lose 0.15 mm of the boss on the back of each wheel. Now on 00 the axle length over the round part of the axle is 14mm, 2.5 mm less than gauge, but on 14mm axles it is 12.1 mm, 1.9 mm less than gauge. There is 0.6 mm more 'slop' between the flanges and the rail in 00, so the old style wheels can never be tight to gauge in 00, but 14mm track is laid to the smaller 'slop' of EM gauge, and it can get too tight. Now this theoretically means that the back to back has to different, and a set of what I am calling RP25 wheels on an axle are a loose fit on my back to back gauge, and measure at 12.54 , whereas my old wheels with the bosses turned down a fraction are a tight fit, and measure at 12.47. If you put the wheel sets on 14mm track the RP25's have a touch more side play despite the bigger back to back. Deciding the correct point when measuring the flange root to flange root is difficult, but it appears to be larger on the RP25's. Now my problem is that these old wheels have been prepared for use in Festiniog Fairlies, with Wrightlines inserts in place on faces counter sunk with a milling machine to get the right dished look. I have to decide what to do next. If I turn the flanges down in HEIGHT it should solve the catching the chairs problem, but if I turn the THICKNESS of the flange down will they become too sloppy on the track. It is now 1.30 in the morning, I'll post this so those in other time zones can think about it and sort out whether in my tired state I have got the maths somewhere near. Frank

I have the answer, I think, to why some of us are in gauge and some out of gauge. There appear to be two Romford wheel profiles knocking about, I would suggest that one is the old 00 standard and is the other the RP25 standard. I've hit the problem with the old standard. That is why my flanges catch the chairs on C & L track. Not only are the flanges deeper, 1mm, they are thicker. 0.65 mm. If you measure what I think are RP25 wheels, the flanges are 0.8mm deep, and only 0.5mm thick. Hence to get the old profile to come to the same gauge you need to lose 0.15 mm of the boss on the back of each wheel. Now on 00 the axle length over the round part of the axle is 14mm, 2.5 mm less than gauge, but on 14mm axles it is 12.1 mm, 1.9 mm less than gauge. There is 0.6 mm more 'slop' between the flanges and the rail in 00, so the old style wheels can never be tight to gauge in 00, but 14mm track is laid to the smaller 'slop' of EM gauge, and it can get too tight. Now this theoretically means that the back to back has to different, and a set of what I am calling RP25 wheels on an axle are a loose fit on my back to back gauge, and measure at 12.54 , whereas my old wheels with the bosses turned down a fraction are a tight fit, and measure at 12.47. If you put the wheel sets on 14mm track the RP25's have a touch more side play despite the bigger back to back. Deciding the correct point when measuring the flange root to flange root is difficult, but it appears to be larger on the RP25's. Now my problem is that these old wheels have been prepared for use in Festiniog Fairlies, with Wrightlines inserts in place on faces counter sunk with a milling machine to get the right dished look. I have to decide what to do next. If I turn the flanges down in HEIGHT it should solve the catching the chairs problem, but if I turn the THICKNESS of the flange down will they become too sloppy on the track. It is now 1.30 in the morning, I'll post this so those in other time zones can think about it and sort out whether in my tired state I have got the maths somewhere near. Frank

Hello everyone. I'm building a 2'x3' O14 layout using RCL track components and rolling stock. Based on the Weydon Hill sand operation shown in the RCL Handbook, I've made one adjustment by moving the larry tip siding to be prominent in the front of the layout and plan to make it similar to that of the Bedford Silica company as shown on the cover of Leleux' recent rolling stock book. Track to the pit will disappear into a tunnel to hidden staging. To put a wrinkle into it, the whole operation is in Argentina, with the SG railroad interchange replaced with a 75cm siding that will hold two bogie opens of the Patagonian Express. To mimic practices found along that line, the overbridge will be of welded channel components, the engine house is planned to be of discarded ties, and the weigh office in corrugated iron. Anathema to traditionalists, I'm sure, but I've wanted to model the Patagonian desert for some time. I've created an Argentine sand layout folder in the Files which has a photo showing benchwork and track arrangement. Progress since the photo includes three switches now nearly complete (working on throwbar components) and the weigh bridge installed--but progress is incredibly slow at this time. I'll take this opportunity to beg Roy to develop a fret with throwbar components as these are tedious to craft and his look so much better than mine! Dave Eggleston Seattle, Washington USA

This could well be the answer. I found the problem with my Backwoods which was supplied with OO wheels + 14mm gauge. I had already done a lot of work on them (e.g. reduce to the correct 8 spokes) so I did not source RP25 replacements. I have reprofiled the flanges as well as skimmed the back to get to the correct Back to Back and Gauge. If others can confirm that the axles ARE correct if RP25 wheels are used then we should lobby all the kit manufacturers to supply RP25 wheels with 14mm axles and not OO wheels. Regards John

John, I hope we are right, partly to stop the flanges from catching the chairs, I have reprofiled 24 wheels this afternoon, including 8 which I have had to take off an already built Fairlie and then put back. I couldn't just dump them, not only the cost but I have milled the spokes back a millimetre so when I put in the overlays they are recessed as on the prototypes. Frank

G'day all, Has anyone tried regauging the Bachmann On30 Porter 0-4-2 to 14mm gauge? I am most of the way though it but have found a problem, not sure what it is yet, either an occasional short or I've buggered up the motor mountings. Would anyone like details on how to do it? Its quite simple. Glad to have some answers to the Romford problem, my Krauss has the wrong wheels so i'll chat to the manufacturer on Monday. Cheers, Mark K Sydney Oz

Hello to everyone, I have just joined this Group and thought that I should introduce myself. I am Robin Edwards, I live near Gloucester in the UK and I have been modelling in 7mm scale narrow gauge since the mid 1970's. Most of this has been in On16.5 but I have dabbled a bit in 14mm gauge. I have had two On16.5 layouts - both exhibition layouts. My first was a continuous circuit, 13 feet by 6 feet and was called 'Dyffryn Station'. With a name like that it had to be set in Wales and it was extremely simple featuring just a passing loop and three storage loops at the back. This was retired in the early 1990's when I moved into a house in need of extensive renovation. Since then I have built a second exhibition layout - again in On16.5, but this time 'end to end', 20 inches by 15 feet called 'Ashcross Industrial Museum'. However, my early dabbling into 14mm gauge has been haunting me and I would like to build a fairly small exhibition layout. Recent mailings on the 7mm NGA Group has reminded me of this Group so I thought I should join and get the benefit of the standards and experience of everyone else. I have to admit that I am a very slow worker so if I don't seem to contribute much it is because I am at the moment very much in 'receive' mode! Looking forward to some inspiration and sound advice. Regards, Robin

How's that for a pun? I've put a photo of my double Fairlie in the photo section. This is taken before I turned down the flanges. I don't really understand this adding photos business, so if you ask it for full screen you will find it goes massive, you will need a wall size screen. Tell me what I am doing wrong and I will sort it. The loco was a Wrightlines kit, originally 16.5. When I decided to go 14mm, I dismantled it, turned down the frame spacers and regauged it. Partly then, but also in its 16.5 days it has been somewhat modified underneath. It no longer has the three point bogie pivots, the original motor, or gear box. It now has a Branchlines 80:1 boxes, and mashima motors on their sides. The pivot is now a bolt into a bit of earth pin off a plug soldered under the dome. This carries a bar which spans the motor, and is then bolted to part of the Wrightlines mounting plate through the standoffs used for printed circuit boards. It has DCC chips for each motor though the pickups are linked. I've modelled it as far as I know as Taliesin running about 1930, though it was probably in Colonel Stephen's Kentish Green. I've used Rover Targa Red, and lining is Fox transfers. It took about 20 hours in total to line out. I have two others to do, one should make Merddin Emrys reasonably easily, but converting the other to James Spooner (just before withdrawal) is going to be a bigger problem

Very impressive piece of work. Bill Uffelman Frank Sharp <Frank.J.Sharp@...> wrote: How's that for a pun? I've put a photo of my double Fairlie in the photo section. This is taken before I turned down the flanges. I don't really understand this adding photos business, so if you ask it for full screen you will find it goes massive, you will need a wall size screen. Tell me what I am doing wrong and I will sort it. The loco was a Wrightlines kit, originally 16.5. When I decided to go 14mm, I dismantled it, turned down the frame spacers and regauged it. Partly then, but also in its 16.5 days it has been somewhat modified underneath. It no longer has the three point bogie pivots, the original motor, or gear box. It now has a Branchlines 80:1 boxes, and mashima motors on their sides. The pivot is now a bolt into a bit of earth pin off a plug soldered under the dome. This carries a bar which spans the motor, and is then bolted to part of the Wrightlines mounting plate through the standoffs used for printed circuit boards. It has DCC chips for each motor though the pickups are linked. I've modelled it as far as I know as Taliesin running about 1930, though it was probably in Colonel Stephen's Kentish Green. I've used Rover Targa Red, and lining is Fox transfers. It took about 20 hours in total to line out. I have two others to do, one should make Merddin Emrys reasonably easily, but converting the other to James Spooner (just before withdrawal) is going to be a bigger problem __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

If it has relevance to 7mm scale NG modelling then it will be reviewed, regardless of source! Anyway, (Association committee hat on) why aren't you a member? :-) Adrian (TLO)

Adrian, Not yet a 7mmNGA member because I'm a poor uni student and can't afford to be! Being in Australia without a credit card makes it hard too! I plan on joining up next year. Cheers, Mark K Sydney Oz

John, I think you have said that the K1 is Romford wheels. Now assuming that the frames aren't already pushed out wider than they should be to allow for 16.5 gauge, there are some extensions made to screw onto the threaded part of the shaft. They replace the Romford wheel nuts, but they are brass. They won't last very well if you use them as the bearing part of the axle, but could you set them up on a dummy axle in the lathe, turn then down until you could push some steel tubing over them and then turn the steel tube down to eighth inch. I got my brass extensions from Colin Ashby. Colin and Val have now retired, but I notice were back on the stand at the NEC. It now trades as Colin Ashby 2004 or some similar title. Frank

Adrian, Will your wife notice that the built in wardrobes look remarkably like slate wagons stacked on top of each other? Frank (who's D I Y list is so long its on computer!)

Re attic/loft -- if you had put insulation without a vapor barrier that did not contact the underside of the roof structure you would have upped the R value. It would have been really good if you used a foam board that is impervious to moisture still leaving the gap. May want to add outside vents at the end of the flat ceiling unless there is a lot of venting going on under the roof tiles. But it is done now so enjoy it. Bill Uffelman Las Vegas NV -- it's a dry heat! adriangrayfr <adrian@...> wrote: My substantial loft in a 1948 vintage house has had the 3" joists doubled, to 6" depth, to carry the chipboard floor (I have quite a bit of FR Archivery up there as well) and the space between these joists has been filled with rockwool (fibreglass) insulation. This has the double benefit of having seriously reduced the heating bill for the house below and reducing the sounds of my friends and I tramping about above the family bedrooms! The tiled and felted roof has been underdrawn with softboard nailed to the rafters. The architect member of our group was adamant that NO waterproof membrane should be put behind the softboard and that the gap under the felt should be left so that air can circulate; for this reason the softboard does not go all the way to the apex but an 18" wide horizontal ceiling ensures a gap from one side to the other (it also makes a good foundation for the six neon tubes). If you impede the airflow there will be problems with condensation between softboard and the underside of the felt. The softboard has been painted with white emulsion - a tedious job as it soaks up paint by the gallon, but it makes a very light 'room'. The insulation from the house below prevents the 'room' becoming too warm and the softboard above insulates the 'room'(mostly) from outside temperatures. I now have a space for a layout that doesn't suffer the extremes of temperature found in some lofts. I feel a Narrow Lines article coming on............grrr! Adrian --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page Try My Yahoo! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]