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I’ve abandoned thoughts of using 5.5mm/ft on 16.5mm. Is anybody on this list modelling the Irish or IoM in 7mm on 21mm gauge track? I want advise on available kits etc.
thanks
best regards
Stay safe
Stay sane
Kelvin
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Hi Kelvin,
I would suggest looking at David Holman's Fintonagh - Irish Narrow Gauge 7mm/ft on 21mm gauge.
David has a thread on the Irish Railway Modeller forum.
Some pictures can be found at
Adrian
West Sussex
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Kelvin White Sent: 08 October 2020 17:20 To: [email protected]Subject: [o14] 7mm Irish Narrow Gauge on 21mm I’ve abandoned thoughts of using 5.5mm/ft on 16.5mm. Is anybody on this list modelling the Irish or IoM in 7mm on 21mm gauge track? I want advise on available kits etc. thanks best regards Stay safe Stay sane Kelvin
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Slaters do some wheels. I got some for my aborted 3ft Ravenglass and Eskdale project they are not bad and they will supply standard gauge wheels on 3ft axles.
?
Marc
?
Marc Dobson
Furness Railway Wagon Co/Pre-Grouping Railways
www.pregroupingrailways.com
furnessrailway@...
01229219875
?
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From: Adrian Colenutt via groups.io
Sent: 20 October 2020 19:30
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [o14] 7mm Irish Narrow Gauge on 21mm
?
Hi Kelvin,
I would suggest looking at David Holman's Fintonagh - Irish Narrow Gauge 7mm/ft on 21mm gauge.
David has a thread on the Irish Railway Modeller forum.
Some pictures can be found at
Adrian
West Sussex
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Kelvin White
Sent: 08 October 2020 17:20
To: [email protected]
Subject: [o14] 7mm Irish Narrow Gauge on 21mm
I’ve abandoned thoughts of using 5.5mm/ft on 16.5mm.? Is anybody on this list modelling the Irish or IoM in 7mm on 21mm gauge track?? I want advise on available kits etc.
thanks
best regards
Stay safe
Stay sane
Kelvin
?
|
Hello Kelvin,
Having followed a similar "scale jumping" journey to your own, I will share what I have found "along the way"! ?Like you, I originally opted to have a go at Irish N.G. in 5.5mm ( 16.5mm Gauge ), and purchased one of Bruce Green's 5.5 mm. CDR Class 2 Locomotives,
as well as a second Class 2 kit, and Worsley Works 5.5mm. etches for a CDR Class 4 and a Class 5. ?All of which still languish in my "Cupboard where kits go to die"! ?As you have, I decided that 7mm. would be a great scale for modelling Irish Narrow Gauge,
but finding no Irish?kits available in that scale, opted for efforts in modelling Isle of Man Railway in 7mm., and purchased a very nice
partially completed scratch built 7mm. scale 21mm. Gauge IoMR Beyer Peacock 2-4-0T from Les Darbyshire. ?At that time, Dave Hammersly at Roxey Mouldings produced 7mm. scale kits for some of the IoMR Coaches and was considering production of a Beyer Peacock
kit and additional IoMR Coaches. ?Neither his project nor mine proceeded beyond that point ( although, I believe that Dave did produce "masters" and some test castings of IoMR items which might prove useful in modelling 7mm. Irish N. G., as well. ).
Other correspondents have listed the 21mm. Gauge wheels currently available from Slaters. ?As far as "full" Locomotive kits for Irish
N.G. prototypes, the only one which I know of is the Clogher Valley Sharp Stewart 0-4-2T offered by Ragstone Models, although he does advise that a kit for a CDR Class 5 is "Under Development" ( A 'status" it has maintained for quite some time! ). ?Alan Doherty
at Worsley Works will usually produce etches for his extensive range of Irish N.G. Locomotives, Coaches, Wagons and Railcars to the "scale of your choice", leaving the acquisition of wheels, castings, etc. to the modeller.
I wish you greater success in your 7mm. efforts than my own. ?It is a great size for modelling Irish N.G., but does suffer from a dearth
of supplier support. ?Should you find other sources for available Irish N.G. kits, please post them to the group.
Good luck?with your project!
Best regards,
John A. Craig
Brenham, Texas
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I’ve abandoned thoughts of using 5.5mm/ft on 16.5mm.? Is anybody on this list modelling the Irish or IoM in 7mm on 21mm gauge track?? I want advise on available kits etc.
thanks
best regards
Stay safe
Stay sane
Kelvin
|
I am using 21mm gauge to model English 3ft gauge industrial & smaller prototypes rather than Irish. Several items from Worsley Works inc a Hudswell Clarke NZ diesel with chassis from Mark Clarke, 3D print Southwold Rwy wagons. Alphagraphics used to do card printed 3ft gauge models & Tyrconnel wagons, useful quickies or templates for scratch building.
David
I’ve abandoned thoughts of using 5.5mm/ft on 16.5mm.? Is anybody on this list modelling the Irish or IoM in 7mm on 21mm gauge track?? I want advise on available kits etc.
thanks
best regards
Stay safe
Stay sane
Kelvin
|
Hi gang. I have never done this before so I'm just hoping I'm doing things right. ?I am modelling Irish 3ft / 21mm gauge but 3D printing all models either on my own printer or from the source in the Netherlands. The latter is more expensive but does a better job than I can manage so is appropriate for rolling stock. However getting Shapeways to print sleepers I reckon is beyond silly as it actually prototypical to have sleepers with a rough surface so I have been printing small panels, 7 sleepers long, complete with chairs. Once spray painted they met my aspirations and anyway it's crazy expensive. I then had a light bulb moment when I discovered that the County Donegal didn't use chairs so back to SketchUp to remove all the carefully crafted chairs and replace them with pairs of the smallest holes I could print which I then clean out with a 0.6mm drill. I am now working on a point and having a great time.
On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 0:27, David Rae <davidcrae@...> wrote: I am using 21mm gauge to model English 3ft gauge industrial & smaller prototypes rather than Irish. Several items from Worsley Works inc a Hudswell Clarke NZ diesel with chassis from Mark Clarke, 3D print Southwold Rwy wagons. Alphagraphics used to do card printed 3ft gauge models & Tyrconnel wagons, useful quickies or templates for scratch building.
David
I’ve abandoned thoughts of using 5.5mm/ft on 16.5mm.? Is anybody on this list modelling the Irish or IoM in 7mm on 21mm gauge track?? I want advise on available kits etc.
thanks
best regards
Stay safe
Stay sane
Kelvin
|
Hi John,
It might be cheaper to by a small 3D printer than use shapeways. I have a Elegoo Saturn which is great but you can get a Mars which is a bit cheaper and smaller.
?
Marc Dobson
Furness Railway Wagon Co/Pre-Grouping Railways
www.pregroupingrailways.com
furnessrailway@...
01229219875
?
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From: john.hjowett@... via groups.io
Sent: 22 October 2020 17:44
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [o14] 7mm Irish Narrow Gauge on 21mm
?
Hi gang. I have never done this before so I'm just hoping I'm doing things right.
?I am modelling Irish 3ft / 21mm gauge but 3D printing all models either on my own printer or from the source in the Netherlands. The latter is more expensive but does a better job than I can manage so is appropriate for rolling stock.
However getting Shapeways to print sleepers I reckon is beyond silly as it actually prototypical to have sleepers with a rough surface so I have been printing small panels, 7 sleepers long, complete with chairs. Once spray painted they met my aspirations and
anyway it's crazy expensive.
I then had a light bulb moment when I discovered that the County Donegal didn't use chairs so back to SketchUp to remove all the carefully crafted chairs and replace them with pairs of the smallest holes I could print which I then clean
out with a 0.6mm drill.
I am now working on a point and having a great time.
Cheers
?
On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 0:27, David Rae
I am using 21mm gauge to model English 3ft gauge industrial & smaller prototypes rather than Irish. Several items from Worsley Works inc a Hudswell Clarke NZ diesel with chassis from Mark Clarke, 3D print Southwold Rwy wagons.
Alphagraphics used to do card printed 3ft gauge models & Tyrconnel wagons, useful quickies or templates for scratch building.
?
I’ve abandoned thoughts of using 5.5mm/ft on 16.5mm.? Is anybody on this list modelling the Irish or IoM in 7mm on 21mm gauge track?? I want advise on available kits etc.
thanks
best regards
Stay safe
Stay sane
Kelvin
|
Hi Marc
Thanks for the suggestion. I already have a UP Mini2 SE on which I print the track panels and other prototypes and bits and pieces. One disadvantage of home printed items is their inability to tolerate the summer sun when inadvertently left on one's workbench on the conservatory. They bent into the most remarkable shapes.
Regards
On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 20:32, Marc Dobson <marcbobdobson@...> wrote:
Hi John,
It might be cheaper to by a small 3D printer than use shapeways. I have a Elegoo Saturn which is great but you can get a Mars which is a bit cheaper and smaller.
?
Marc Dobson
Furness Railway Wagon Co/Pre-Grouping Railways
www.pregroupingrailways.com
furnessrailway@...
01229219875
?
?
Hi gang. I have never done this before so I'm just hoping I'm doing things right.
?I am modelling Irish 3ft / 21mm gauge but 3D printing all models either on my own printer or from the source in the Netherlands. The latter is more expensive but does a better job than I can manage so is appropriate for rolling stock.
However getting Shapeways to print sleepers I reckon is beyond silly as it actually prototypical to have sleepers with a rough surface so I have been printing small panels, 7 sleepers long, complete with chairs. Once spray painted they met my aspirations and
anyway it's crazy expensive.
I then had a light bulb moment when I discovered that the County Donegal didn't use chairs so back to SketchUp to remove all the carefully crafted chairs and replace them with pairs of the smallest holes I could print which I then clean
out with a 0.6mm drill.
I am now working on a point and having a great time.
Cheers
?
On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 0:27, David Rae
I am using 21mm gauge to model English 3ft gauge industrial & smaller prototypes rather than Irish. Several items from Worsley Works inc a Hudswell Clarke NZ diesel with chassis from Mark Clarke, 3D print Southwold Rwy wagons.
Alphagraphics used to do card printed 3ft gauge models & Tyrconnel wagons, useful quickies or templates for scratch building.
?
I’ve abandoned thoughts of using 5.5mm/ft on 16.5mm.? Is anybody on this list modelling the Irish or IoM in 7mm on 21mm gauge track?? I want advise on available kits etc.
thanks
best regards
Stay safe
Stay sane
Kelvin
|
Printing chairs on sleepers seems, to me, like a waste of printer time and capacity.? Why not print just the chairs and then attach them to real wooden sleepers? Similarly, why keep printing lots of sleepers with little holes when you could print a template that would let you drill accurately into several plywood sleepers at a time and keep doing so until you have enough?? You could print a similar template for drilling into plywood sleepers for points. All it needs is a bit of thought to design the jigs to hold wooden sleepers with the template above and - Robert's yer Mother's brother!!
I wish I could find the right rail section to make printing FR 'S-chairs' a practical proposition - and the drawing skills and printing equipment!!
Adrian??
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There’s a easier way of doing sleepers in a repetitive manner you make a
master with 2 pieces of copper wire set in it as per the attached diagram, the
mould will have the 4 holes in the bottom [which is the top of the sleeper] you
simply place the U shaped pieces of copper wire in the mould pour the resin in,
once it has set you lay the sleepers along and put the rail in place and use a
pair of pliers to crimp over the tips of the copper wire to form the dog spike
heads, the copper wire will eventually tarnish to a nice rust coloured
look.
You can also do the same if you want to make steel type sleepers.
?
Brian
Rawbelle
County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
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Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2020 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: [o14] 7mm Irish Narrow Gauge on 21mm
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Printing chairs on sleepers seems, to me, like a waste of printer
time and capacity.? Why not print just the chairs and then attach them to
real wooden sleepers?
Similarly, why keep printing lots of sleepers with little holes when you
could print a template that would let you drill accurately into several plywood
sleepers at a time and keep doing so until you have enough?? You could
print a similar template for drilling into plywood sleepers for points.
All it needs is a bit of thought to design the jigs to hold wooden sleepers
with the template above and - Robert's yer Mother's brother!!
?
I wish I could find the right rail section to make printing FR 'S-chairs' a
practical proposition - and the drawing skills and printing equipment!!
?
Adrian?
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Have you seen the 3D printed kits that Keith Fothergill has been showing us on the 7mm Narrow gauge Association facebook pages? He is apparently selling through eBay, but a discount for members contacting him via Messenger. ?I have not seen them in person but they may help you progress the project. Good luck. ?Paul?
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Adrian,
Have you tried asking Mr Martin? A few months back I explained to him why I was looking for some octagonal section brass and within the week he'd designed and printed (and now sells generally via EDM) some beautiful gate posts. Given his FR links, I'd think
S-chairs would be a cinch.
I'm still working my way through several hundred L&B chairs David at KBScale sold me some years back ...
David
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Printing chairs on sleepers seems, to me, like a waste of printer time and capacity.? Why not print just the chairs and then attach them to real wooden sleepers?
Similarly, why keep printing lots of sleepers with little holes when you could print a template that would let you drill accurately into several plywood sleepers at a time and keep doing so until you have enough?? You could print a similar template for
drilling into plywood sleepers for points.
All it needs is a bit of thought to design the jigs to hold wooden sleepers with the template above and - Robert's yer Mother's brother!!
I wish I could find the right rail section to make printing FR 'S-chairs' a practical proposition - and the drawing skills and printing equipment!!
Adrian??
|
David,
Your L&B gate post inspired a suggestion for an FR disc signal, with a post that allowed for the disc to rotate. As you would expect, Paul rose to the challenge magnificently and I have?no doubt that he would do the same if asked for FR S-chairs. Unfortunately, my problem is not so much the chairs as finding the scale rail section that would justify getting chairs made.? Nor can I afford the investment that Kalgarin put into their FB rail!
Adrian
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Adrain,
I also spent some time a while back considering how best to capture Penrhyn/Ffestiniog bullhead track in 7mm.? Not sure if my explorations will be any use
to you but I thought I would share all the same.
From Boyd I calculated both should have a rail head width of 1.24mm, however Penrhyn should be taller at 2.63, whilst Ffestiniog should be 2.41.
Paul Holmes quotes using S scale code 95 on Dinas 1869, the S scale society website seems only offer code 87 bullhead.? Code 95 should give about the right height, but I'm assuming this is no longer available.? Code 87 would be too short.? I can't find details
on rail head width but this is probably really too narrow on both.
The other alternative I looked at was Slaters code 100 bullhead.? This has a height of 2.54, but a slightly anaemic rail head with of 0.92.? This was my preferred option, although I was a little concerned it is slightly too higher and too narrow so proportionally
may not look right.
This was as far as I got.? At currently progress it will be a long time before I need any track.? You are not the only one looking into options for this though, unfortunately I doubt there are enough others to justify a bespoke tooling.
?
Regards,
Rich
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David,
Your L&B gate post inspired a suggestion for an FR disc signal, with a post that allowed for the disc to rotate.
As you would expect, Paul rose to the challenge magnificently and I have?no doubt that he would do the same if asked for FR S-chairs.
Unfortunately, my problem is not so much the chairs as finding the scale rail section that would justify getting chairs made.? Nor can I afford the investment that Kalgarin put into their FB rail!
Adrian
|
This thread seems to have drifted into FR track! ?I did indeed lay Dinas with ?S Scale Society code 95 rail and used their cast whitemetal chairs. This has now been discontinued in favour of the smaller code 87 with C&L type plastic chairs. ?
One day I hope to extend Dinas. The layout is set in the 1860-70s, when all the track was ballasted right over, obscuring all the sleepers and most of the chairs. I may well just cheat and use Peco code 100 and soldered construction on copper clad sleepers next time. The tiny bit of chair showing could be added later. The rail height becomes immaterial as does the look of the sleepers. Threading rail onto chairs is almost as tedious as spiking rails down, as in Hulme End ?
Cheers
Paul ?
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Sorry for exacerbating the thread drift.??
Paul, that proposed technique would work well if the rail foot is buried, it would be quick to build and robust.
I had considered that technique myself, perhaps even using Karlgarin flat bottom to get a broader rail head.? With ground built up and dummy half chairs added later to hide its flat bottom origins.? At the time I was investigating it I was unable to purchase
any to see how that might look.? One area of concern is that pictures of points show more of the rail revealed, this is obviously required to enable movement.? I'm not sure how I'd have navigated this.
To model Penrhyn track that wouldn't be an option.? Time consuming as it might be there is something beautiful about bullhead track.? It's almost down to modellers now to re-create it as full scale it is time consuming and expensive too so disappearing for
most heritage railways.
I've no space for a layout at the moment anyhow.? For now I'll continue dabbling with buildings and stock.
Rich
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This thread seems to have drifted into FR track! ?I did indeed lay Dinas with ?S Scale Society code 95 rail and used their cast whitemetal chairs. This has now been discontinued in favour of the smaller code 87 with C&L type plastic chairs. ?
One day I hope to extend Dinas. The layout is set in the 1860-70s, when all the track was ballasted right over, obscuring all the sleepers and most of the chairs. I may well just cheat and use Peco code 100 and soldered construction on copper clad sleepers
next time. The tiny bit of chair showing could be added later. The rail height becomes immaterial as does the look of the sleepers. Threading rail onto chairs is almost as tedious as spiking rails down, as in Hulme End ?
Cheers
Paul ?
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It is perhaps worth remembering that only brand new rail would have been full nominal height. As it wore, and on narrow gauge railways its was probably allowed to wear quite a lot before replacement was considered necessary because of the low speeds, the height would have reduced quite a lot so code87 rail should be quite acceptable provided that the head-width wasn’t to far out (although there would have been wear there too).
David WOODCOCK
Champlon, Belgique
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David makes a good point (pun not intended) about rail wearing - perhaps I should give the new S Scale Society code 87 rail a second thought! Being utterly pedantic (wot, moi?!) Paul's deep ballast technique is OK for the period of his Dinas, but only until one gets to rail joints which were deliberately left exposed so that fishplates (Spooner & Huddart type) could be examined and maintained, and at points, as Richard remarked.
Adrian
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... except that rail wearing sufficient to enable Code 87 rail would very much show up as a thinner head.
David H
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David makes a good point (pun not intended) about rail wearing - perhaps I should give the new S Scale Society code 87 rail a second thought!
Being utterly pedantic (wot, moi?!) Paul's deep ballast technique is OK for the period of his Dinas, but only until one gets to rail joints which were deliberately left exposed so that fishplates (Spooner & Huddart type) could be examined and maintained,
and at points, as Richard remarked.
Adrian
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Adrian Gray
Paul Holmes
David Hughes