Hi Brian,
I'm seriously impressed if you do your own etching! It also
explains why you don't have any issues using a bitmap format for
the images: PNG is a bitmap format. As to scaling I didn't? mean
for scaling the entire artwork for differing modelling scales,
more changing the size of a part if you initially mis-measured
etc. Clearly if you do the entire process yourself (still really
impressed by that!) then you'll have found a process that works
perfectly for you, I'd just be concerned for anyone starting out
from scratch and wanting to have a company do the actual etching,
and in that instance I'd strongly suggest they use a vector
drawing program or at least check with the etcher first before
investing lots of time in producing drawings as bitmaps,
Mark
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?
Mark,
While it is possible to save drawings in a
multitude of file types with Paintshop Pro, I save all
my artwork as “.png” [Portable Network Graphic], and I
do all my own etching, as far as “scaling” goes
artwork cannot be successfully enlarged or reduced to
suit a particular scale, because the artwork if done
properly is designed to use a particular material
thickness, if you were to reduce the artwork in size,
that would mean you also reduce the width of the fold
lines and after the etching is done you wouldn’t get
the brass to fold neatly on those lines because the
lines would be too fine.
?
Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
?
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 4:04
PM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The
Stronalacher Saga
?
Without wanting to suggest that you are doing
anything wrong Brian, I'd suggest that anyone
wanting to learn to produce artwork for etching
avoids using Paintshop Pro or any other bitmap based
software. There are two reasons for this 1) bitmap
based drawings can be difficult to edit, especially
scaling and 2) most companies will refuse to take
bitmap artwork for etching now. Brian, I assume you
have a local company you've been using for a while
and as they know your artwork point 2 is slightly
less relevant.
For those starting to learn to draw the artwork
what you really want to look at isn't necessarily
CAD? (which can be expensive and difficult to learn)
but a vector drawing programme (I use a free
programme called Inkscape: ).
The difference between these two types of programmes
is that a bitmap image just records the colour of
each pixel whereas a vector image is essentially a
set of instructions for how to draw the image. This
means that scaling an image becomes easy as you just
change the instructions, and lines etc. remain
smooth rather than becoming jagged as they do in a
bitmap. It's also easy to move parts around as again
you just change the instructions so the starting
point for a shape changes (all done through the
normal drawing tool interactions you don't have to
worry about the maths yourself). One of the
companies many people in the UK use is PPD Ltd and
they have a set of guides for producing artwork that
are a good starting point for understanding the
process:
All this of course only refers to how you produce
the drawings, and so anyone starting out would do
well to avail themselves of Brian's very kind offer
to help with basic techniques and issues like fold
points etc. that can easily catch out the unwary.
If you are going to ExpoNG then talking to Stephen
on the Narrow Planet stand might be a good idea as
he's been producing etch artwork for a number of
years, not only for name/number plates but also for
their range of kits, as well as custom pieces -- I'm
slightly biased here as I designed their OO9 kit of
the 24hp Hudson-Hunslet diesel loco.
Hope that helps,
Mark
?
Colin,
Making your own etchings isn’t as hard to
do as you may think, the set up cost for the
basic items will cost you about AUD$600 or
about 300UK pound, the hard part is learning
to design your own artwork, instead of using
CAD I use Paintshop Pro7 and instead of
actually working is a scale I simply use
pixels at 72000 resolution each pixel is
equal to .1mm. so I can etch components as
accurate as within .1mm.
Anyone who would like to learn how to
accurately draw there artwork you can
contact me, I can teach you the basic
techniques of how I start to work out how to
establish the fold points etc.
?
Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
?
Sent: Wednesday, October 12,
2016 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [O14] Re: The
Stronalacher Saga
?
?
Thanks
Guys
?
We have
Expong coming up so I hope to be able to
talk to a few people who are making 3D
prints in 009, I realise that if making
a brass etch kit was easy we would all
be doing them, that said, I do take my
hat off to you guys who spend your time
making these kits for the rest of us to
b***er up, I am not going to promise
anything as it could all change over
night so to speak, but the idea behind
this thread was to see if any of the
locos I listed where produced in brass
for 014, I think I have the answer is
generally no.
?
That
said, I am sure Wrightlines used to do
Prince and the Darjeeling B tank and we
know that EDM will have the L&BR
2-6-2 kit at some stage, and I think
chivers fines lines used to do a 7mm
scale Vale of Rheidol 2-6-2 as well, but
I am sure the others don't have kits, so
there is a lot of scratch building to do
in that case.????
?
There is
one photo of the 4mm version of
Stronalacher which always makes me go
Wow after all this time and the
Darjeeling Garrett with a long slate
train on a Wooden trestle bridge, I
think that would look really cool in
014, it was about 5ft in 009, that would
be somewhere near 2.6 metres in length
in 014.
?
Regards
?
Colin
?
?
?
?
?
???????
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
Tuesday, October 11, 2016 9:01 PM
Subject:
Re: [O14] Re: The Stronalacher Saga
?
From what I have seen and heard,
a lot of etchings that have been
done in the past, they have tried to
use too thick of a material which
means it is very hard to get folds
correct, all of the etching I do is
designed to use .4mm. brass sheet,
sometimes after spending countless
hours designing the artwork, the
first test etch will reveal some
problems, mainly because I got mixed
up with which side some fold points
had to be on. Take a look at the
photos of a 91 Class SAR loco I am
building, and study the steps, one
photos shows both sides of the steps
as etched and also what the steps
look like after being folded, all
one piece each.
<>
?
Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
?
Sent: Wednesday,
October 12, 2016 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: [O14]
Re: The Stronalacher Saga
?
Very true.
Producing
a working CAD drawing that can be
turned in to a pattern or an etch
takes a bit of doing for 3D parts
you need to add shrinkage factors
these change depending on the
material being used to cast the
item.
?
For
etches you have to flatten the
part add bending lines which
change depending on thickness of
material and the level of
distortion you need.
?
I have
lost count of the number of etches
I have ditched and started again
with.
And if you want to just produce a
3D print all parts have interlock
or be drawn from a solid as if
it's just touching and unioned the
printer will see two parts not
one.
?
I
produced our first kit in 1999 and
I'm still getting things wrong on
test etches and you would never
know until you build the
prototype.
Marc
?
Colin,
I
think you'll find a
major difference between
a drawing of a loco even
in CAD and what is
needed for an etched
kit. The 7mm Narrow
Gauge Association has
books of drawings but
most predate home CAD
systems and were
probably done originally
by someone to scratch
build a model. A lot of
the ones published in
NG&IRMR are proper
works drawings. Both
sources need treating
with care, in the former
case one doesn't know
how much information the
draughtsman had and in
the latter you need to
watch what was actually
built as opposed to what
was designed. All of
course, thanks to
someone's, efforts far
better than nothing at
all.
Nothing
like publishing anything
for some further
information to crawl out
of the woodwork and make
a fool of you.
Frank
?
I might be wrong in
thinking this,
but for me an
014 loco kit
will need to
have weight, I
would guess that
if I had a half
decent computer
and the Auto Cad
programme I
would have a go
at producing 7mm
drawings to make
up brass etched
kits and to also
make the masters
for the 3D Cad
castings as
well.
I think 014 has a lot
going for it,
and if I had the
space then I
would consider
building a model
in this size,
One thing which
I am surprised
with and that is
the lack of
narrow gauge
loco and rolling
stock Cad
drawings which
are available
(you watch, some
one will come on
here now and
tell me where I
can find them),
but why stop
there? as you
are half way to
getting an etch
of that item
done.
May be it is just me
getting older
and trying to
cope with all
this new
technology.
----- Original Message -----
Sent:
Tuesday,
October 11,
2016 12:20 PM
Subject: Re:
[O14] Re: The
Stronalacher
Saga
There
was a kit
actually for
the Darjeeling
Garratt in 7mm
scale and I
have seen the
etchings and
resin
castings, now
in the
possession of
a friend and
7mm NGA
member.? BUT
this was, I
gather, one of
just two test
etches and has
never been
released.? If
anyone can
track? down
its heritage
then the
possibility
remains!!
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