Re: why do people persist with AX.25 when more robust modes now exist?
Because we are lazy, and we have equipment that works... And we've all seen what happens with "novelty".... I'd run a BBS on morse code if I could get away with it, just because and I don't care anymore... Garry P. Cramins (505) 340-9093
Sweet!? Thanks Jeff.? Let’s see what Billy does with this info. ? Tadd --- Sent from Planet X ?Hi Tadd,
Yeah, the VARA port is one of my BPQ node's radio ports, with BPQ networked to an (X)Net node (Flexnet-compatible) on a Linux netbook.? (X)Net is linked via VHF to the local Eastnet (they use Flexnet) packet network here in upstate NY.? The VARA backbone link is to N3MEL's FRNPA packet network in eastern PA who is also linked to the DEPN packet network in Delaware via I think UHF, or maybe they switched to a VARA backbone link, I can't remember.? No internet links involved, all RF which is what we're pushing for.? The VARA link moves BBS mail between the NY and PA/DE networks 24/7.? For that purpose, it works very well, far beyond 300bd ax.25.? A disadvantage of VARA is that it's a Windows program.? It will run in Linux using WINE, which I had up and running, but the particular Linux laptop I used for that must have awful shielding because I couldn't get ALC down to zero on HF no matter what audio settings I tried.? So for now, it's running on an old Win7 laptop, which amazingly has been running issue-free for over a year, no reboots necessary.? VARA will run on Rapsberry's as well, but I've never tried it.? Glenn N3MEL has also added a couple more networks on the east coast using his VARA link, including night-time to Wisconsin.
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Re: why do people persist with AX.25 when more robust modes now exist?
Sweet! ?Thanks Jeff. ?Let’s see what Billy does with this info. ? Tadd --- Sent from Planet X
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On Sep 6, 2023, at 5:49 PM, Jeff KP3FT via groups.io <kp3ft@...> wrote:
?Hi Tadd,
Yeah, the VARA port is one of my BPQ node's radio ports, with BPQ networked to an (X)Net node (Flexnet-compatible) on a Linux netbook.? (X)Net is linked via VHF to the local Eastnet (they use Flexnet) packet network here in upstate NY.? The VARA backbone link is to N3MEL's FRNPA packet network in eastern PA who is also linked to the DEPN packet network in Delaware via I think UHF, or maybe they switched to a VARA backbone link, I can't remember.? No internet links involved, all RF which is what we're pushing for.? The VARA link moves BBS mail between the NY and PA/DE networks 24/7.? For that purpose, it works very well, far beyond 300bd ax.25.? A disadvantage of VARA is that it's a Windows program.? It will run in Linux using WINE, which I had up and running, but the particular Linux laptop I used for that must have awful shielding because I couldn't get ALC down to zero on HF no matter what audio settings I tried.? So for now, it's running on an old Win7 laptop, which amazingly has been running issue-free for over a year, no reboots necessary.? VARA will run on Rapsberry's as well, but I've never tried it.? Glenn N3MEL has also added a couple more networks on the east coast using his VARA link, including night-time to Wisconsin.
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Re: why do people persist with AX.25 when more robust modes now exist?
Very true Jeff. VARA is great for backbones.
Thankfully, there aren't any on Network105.
Prof. Chris Lance www.ww2bsa.org www.EastNetPacket.com www.Network105.org Radio Station Manager Mount Allamuchy Scout Reservation ARRL Life Member
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-------- Original message -------- From: "Jeff KP3FT via groups.io" <kp3ft@...> Date: 9/6/23 4:58 PM (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [network105] why do people persist with AX.25 when more robust modes now exist?
VARA rocks.? We switched from 300bd ax.25 over to VARA HF for a 24/7 180-mile BPQ backbone link, and never looked back.? The difference is amazing.? Even when propagation was good, there were just too many retries with 300bd ax.25, not to mention it's a lot slower moving data, compared to VARA HF which at times exceeds even 1200bd speed.? One advantage though of ax.25 is that it allows multiple simultaneous connections, unlike VARA which allows only one.? Doesn't matter in my case, since VARA is strictly for a backbone link between two nodes.
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Re: why do people persist with AX.25 when more robust modes now exist?
Mostly what? "James C. Richardson, GSEC | HAM: WV8JCR"? said.
(and many other replys)
I run ALOT of digi modes and have for 30+ years.
I love Olivia, Contesa and ALE400.
Right now I am a "alpha" tester for FREEDATA.??
https://github.com/DJ2LS/FreeDATA
A new software that
uses CODEC2 to send fast data. It is FOSS and runs on Mac/Win/Linux.
Maybe one day it will get near the speed of VARA and can be used
in links like backbones but will not replace AX.25
Trip - KT4WO
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Re: why do people persist with AX.25 when more robust modes now exist?
Hi Tadd,
Yeah, the VARA port is one of my BPQ node's radio ports, with BPQ networked to an (X)Net node (Flexnet-compatible) on a Linux netbook.? (X)Net is linked via VHF to the local Eastnet (they use Flexnet) packet network here in upstate NY.? The VARA backbone link is to N3MEL's FRNPA packet network in eastern PA who is also linked to the DEPN packet network in Delaware via I think UHF, or maybe they switched to a VARA backbone link, I can't remember.? No internet links involved, all RF which is what we're pushing for.? The VARA link moves BBS mail between the NY and PA/DE networks 24/7.? For that purpose, it works very well, far beyond 300bd ax.25.? A disadvantage of VARA is that it's a Windows program.? It will run in Linux using WINE, which I had up and running, but the particular Linux laptop I used for that must have awful shielding because I couldn't get ALC down to zero on HF no matter what audio settings I tried.? So for now, it's running on an old Win7 laptop, which amazingly has been running issue-free for over a year, no reboots necessary.? VARA will run on Rapsberry's as well, but I've never tried it.? Glenn N3MEL has also added a couple more networks on the east coast using his VARA link, including night-time to Wisconsin.
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Re: why do people persist with AX.25 when more robust modes now exist?
David,
Couldn’t you say the same of CW or RTTY or PSK31, or a dozen others modes.
I agree, there are more robust modes now and better suited for the quick QSOs many enjoy now, but what other mode lets you connect and leave a msg to a friend that can be read at their leisure? Then responded too when they choose? I think the sound card modes are great, cheap, robust, etc. but the thing about packet is the network, that is available 24/7/365. I too have no one within VHF range to talk too on packet, that is one reason I’m building a node/bbs and looking for other apps that will help build local interest and expand the local network again. HF packet can be slow and at times frustrating when band conditions make connections hard, but isn’t that one of the things that also makes HF fun? Don’t give up so easily, persistence is a virtue and does seem to help with packet. Talk to other local hams about packet, see if you can find others to put up a station again.
73
Jim KI0BK
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Re: why do people persist with AX.25 when more robust modes now exist?
Jeff nailed it for me…? packet supports multiple simultaneous connections.? My node uses AX.25 for user ports on both HF and VHF.? I use VARA HF for forwarding on both HF and 6M for just the reason you outlined… it is much faster.? If VARA supported simultaneous connections with the ease of AX.25, I might consider implementing that… but until then, it’s AX.25 for me.? There is also a nostalgia element for me as a “packeteer” and sysop from the 90’s, I really happen to like it. ? 73, ? Matt, WE1H ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of David, K7DMJ Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2023 4:29 PM To: [email protected]Subject: [network105] why do people persist with AX.25 when more robust modes now exist? ? Most of my attempts to using 300 baud AX.25 on 20m and 40m bands have been unsuccessful. That's just a personal observation. I know this stuff works just fine for a lot of other people. I'm probably just unfortunate in where I live (Utah) in relation to the main centers of packet activity in the US. But I'd like to know why people are still using AX.25 when there are more robust protocols like Vara and Robust Packet around. Is this because lots of packeteers are still using old hardware TNCs? Nostalgia? I managed to connect right away to a node in Utah using Vara (NS7K is on 7.0934 USB and runs BPQ32 to support a few different ports for Vara and PACTOR on HF and VHF AX.25). AX.25 on the other hand has been a dead loss for me. I'm not trying to be a smartass here. It just seems to me that the network would survive longer if more people were able to participate, which would be facilitated by using more robust modes.
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Re: why do people persist with AX.25 when more robust modes now exist?
Have you got VARA networked in at both ends? ?
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On Sep 6, 2023, at 4:58 PM, Jeff KP3FT via groups.io <kp3ft@...> wrote:
?VARA rocks.? We switched from 300bd ax.25 over to VARA HF for a 24/7 180-mile BPQ backbone link, and never looked back.? The difference is amazing.? Even when propagation was good, there were just too many retries with 300bd ax.25, not to mention it's a lot slower moving data, compared to VARA HF which at times exceeds even 1200bd speed.? One advantage though of ax.25 is that it allows multiple simultaneous connections, unlike VARA which allows only one.? Doesn't matter in my case, since VARA is strictly for a backbone link between two nodes.
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Re: why do people persist with AX.25 when more robust modes now exist?
Hi David,
?
Here is another map of AX.25 activity I maintain out of love for packet. This one is for North America:
With over 110,000 views in the last couple of years, I'd say there is a viable interest and resurgence in AX.25 packet.
You bring up some great questions. Packet has three great advantages over other digital modes: transparency,?error correction, and?automatic control. It is one of the first digital modes,?very easy to set up, variants of hardware and software are readily accessible, and makes a great "gateway mode" for beginners into other digital modes - and yes - it is nostalgic!
It's amazing how many VARA, IL2P and FX.25 advocates constantly feel they have to tell me that their modes are faster and better than AX.25. These "Jehovah Witnesses of Digital Modes" are absolutely correct! No argument from me. I applaud their inventors and innovations. These modes were not available to amateurs when AX.25 packet first came out. And now they are. Not the point though. Telling a packeteer to switch to VARA (which isn't even packet) because it's faster is like telling a CW operator to switch to voice because you can say more! LOL. My friend collects QSL cards for his wall. Should I tell him to collect eQSLs instead because it's cheaper? I think you see where I'm going with this...
As far as longevity, Network105 has been around since the 1980's and as long as there are TNCs, SoundCards and hams to operate them, I'm confident it will continue, just like slow-poke CW, RTTY, JS8Call, etc....
?
Building and maintaining networks are fun. I ran a very successful packet contest in February. I will be doing that again with a few things other packet events up my sleeve.
?
Stay tuned and have fun on packet and/or any digital mode that pleases you!
?
Radio Station Manager
Mount Allamuchy Scout Reservation
"Keeping Packet Great!"
ARRL Life Member VOTA
?
?
?
On 09/06/2023 4:28 PM EDT David, K7DMJ <davdj0nsn@...> wrote:
?
?
Most of my attempts to using 300 baud AX.25 on 20m and 40m bands have been unsuccessful. That's just a personal observation. I know this stuff works just fine for a lot of other people. I'm probably just unfortunate in where I live (Utah) in relation to the main centers of packet activity in the US. But I'd like to know why people are still using AX.25 when there are more robust protocols like Vara and Robust Packet around. Is this because lots of packeteers are still using old hardware TNCs? Nostalgia? I managed to connect right away to a node in Utah using Vara (NS7K is on 7.0934 USB and runs BPQ32 to support a few different ports for Vara and PACTOR on HF and VHF AX.25). AX.25 on the other hand has been a dead loss for me. I'm not trying to be a smartass here. It just seems to me that the network would survive longer if more people were able to participate, which would be facilitated by using more robust modes.
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Re: why do people persist with AX.25 when more robust modes now exist?
VARA rocks.? We switched from 300bd ax.25 over to VARA HF for a 24/7 180-mile BPQ backbone link, and never looked back.? The difference is amazing.? Even when propagation was good, there were just too many retries with 300bd ax.25, not to mention it's a lot slower moving data, compared to VARA HF which at times exceeds even 1200bd speed.? One advantage though of ax.25 is that it allows multiple simultaneous connections, unlike VARA which allows only one.? Doesn't matter in my case, since VARA is strictly for a backbone link between two nodes.
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Re: why do people persist with AX.25 when more robust modes now exist?
For me it’s because:
a) it’s closed source, b) it isn’t free, and c) it doesn’t natively run on Linux
James C. Richardson, GSEC | HAM: WV8JCR
On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 4:28 PM David, K7DMJ < davdj0nsn@...> wrote: Most of my attempts to using 300 baud AX.25 on 20m and 40m bands have been unsuccessful. That's just a personal observation. I know this stuff works just fine for a lot of other people. I'm probably just unfortunate in where I live (Utah) in relation to the main centers of packet activity in the US. But I'd like to know why people are still using AX.25 when there are more robust protocols like Vara and Robust Packet around. Is this because lots of packeteers are still using old hardware TNCs? Nostalgia? I managed to connect right away to a node in Utah using Vara (NS7K is on 7.0934 USB and runs BPQ32 to support a few different ports for Vara and PACTOR on HF and VHF AX.25). AX.25 on the other hand has been a dead loss for me. I'm not trying to be a smartass here. It just seems to me that the network would survive longer if more people were able to participate, which would be facilitated by using more robust modes.
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why do people persist with AX.25 when more robust modes now exist?
Most of my attempts to using 300 baud AX.25 on 20m and 40m bands have been unsuccessful. That's just a personal observation. I know this stuff works just fine for a lot of other people. I'm probably just unfortunate in where I live (Utah) in relation to the main centers of packet activity in the US. But I'd like to know why people are still using AX.25 when there are more robust protocols like Vara and Robust Packet around. Is this because lots of packeteers are still using old hardware TNCs? Nostalgia? I managed to connect right away to a node in Utah using Vara (NS7K is on 7.0934 USB and runs BPQ32 to support a few different ports for Vara and PACTOR on HF and VHF AX.25). AX.25 on the other hand has been a dead loss for me. I'm not trying to be a smartass here. It just seems to me that the network would survive longer if more people were able to participate, which would be facilitated by using more robust modes.
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Re: Packet software and setup
Windows software:
UZ7HO's Soundmodem sound card TNC, and also his Easyterm terminal program to use with Soundmodem.? Both can be found here:
A popular 20m frequency is 14.105 (dial freq, LSB mode).
I think the popular 40m frequency is 7.104 (dial freq, LSB mode), unless it's been changed.
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Packet software and setup
Hi there,? I'm new to packet any recommandations to be qrv. Documentation softwares frequencies etc ? For Windows computer please.
Thank you in avance. Best. D/ -? F4JKS
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Re: 17 meters and 10 meters
Wow. I’m really in a packet desert out in Utah. No wonder I’m only rarely able to decode any AX.25 packets on HF. ? ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Chris Lance WW2BSA Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2023 12:32 PM To: [email protected]; Alan Beck - VY2XU <abeck@...> Subject: Re: [network105] 17 meters and 10 meters ? Glad you're having fun on Network105!
More info here:
I have a Worldwide map that I have been working on. There is a section for Network105 stations/nodes/Gateways. Still a work in progress. Feel free to take a look.
73 de Chris Lance
WW2BSA.org
Moderator On 09/06/2023 2:19 PM EDT Alan Beck - VY2XU <abeck@...> wrote: Very satisfying to work a few people on net 105. My station will not be 24/7. May want to use BBSes for notes to one another. The one in Toronto seems good as it? is a hop away. VE3VTY is the one I am going to try.
? I JUST SAW YOUR BCN AT? FL? ?AB4KR-7? NODE,? I OPERATE HIS EQUIP REMOTELY,? YOU MADE IT INTO PEN FL,? BUT I COULD NOT CONNECT TO? CALLSIGN? ?OR FINE A? -1? OR? -7? BUT SAW YOUR BCN? On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 06:51:19 AM MDT, Alan Beck - VY2XU <abeck@...> wrote: Does anyone know the calling frequency on 17 meters and 10 meters?
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Re: 17 meters and 10 meters
Hi Alan,
Glad you're having fun on Network105!
More info here:
I have a Worldwide map that I have been working on. There is a section for Network105 stations/nodes/Gateways. Still a work in progress. Feel free to take a look.
?
?
73 de Chris Lance
WW2BSA.org
Moderator
?
?
On 09/06/2023 2:19 PM EDT Alan Beck - VY2XU <abeck@...> wrote:
?
?
I am going as VY2XU-0
?
Very satisfying to work a few people on net 105.
?
Tried for years.
?
My station will not be 24/7. May want to use BBSes for notes to one another.
?
The one in Toronto seems good as it? is a hop away.
?
VE3VTY is the one I am going to try.
?
BAnd is open now.
?
Thanks,
?
ALan
?
GM? ALAN
? I JUST SAW YOUR BCN AT? FL? ?AB4KR-7? NODE,? I OPERATE HIS
EQUIP REMOTELY,? YOU MADE IT INTO PEN FL,? BUT I COULD NOT
CONNECT TO? CALLSIGN? ?OR FINE A? -1? OR? -7? BUT SAW YOUR BCN?
?
CARL WH6ANH
?
?
On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 06:51:19 AM MDT, Alan Beck - VY2XU <abeck@...> wrote:
?
?
Does anyone know the calling frequency on 17 meters and 10 meters?
?
Alan
VY2XU
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Re: 17 meters and 10 meters
I am going as VY2XU-0
Very satisfying to work a few people on net 105.
Tried for years.
My station will not be 24/7. May want to use BBSes for notes to one another.
The one in Toronto seems good as it? is a hop away.
VE3VTY is the one I am going to try.
BAnd is open now.
Thanks,
ALan
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GM? ALAN
? I JUST SAW YOUR BCN AT? FL? ?AB4KR-7? NODE,? I OPERATE HIS
EQUIP REMOTELY,? YOU MADE IT INTO PEN FL,? BUT I COULD NOT
CONNECT TO? CALLSIGN? ?OR FINE A? -1? OR? -7? BUT SAW YOUR BCN?
CARL WH6ANH
On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 06:51:19 AM MDT, Alan Beck - VY2XU <abeck@...> wrote:
Does anyone know the calling frequency on 17 meters and 10 meters?
Alan
VY2XU
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Re: 17 meters and 10 meters
GM? ALAN ? I JUST SAW YOUR BCN AT? FL? ?AB4KR-7? NODE,? I OPERATE HIS EQUIP REMOTELY,? YOU MADE IT INTO PEN FL,? BUT I COULD NOT CONNECT TO? CALLSIGN? ?OR FINE A? -1? OR? -7? BUT SAW YOUR BCN?
CARL WH6ANH
On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 06:51:19 AM MDT, Alan Beck - VY2XU <abeck@...> wrote:
Does anyone know the calling frequency on 17 meters and 10 meters?
Alan
VY2XU
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good morning... joe here.w7ep in south alabama I tried several time to connect to you this morning but no luck. I did connect to va3pix up your way..? Will? keep trying as day goes on. Joe? w7ep
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 07:34:29 PM CDT, Carl- WH6ANH via groups.io <carlwh6anh@...> wrote:
Sent from Carl WH6ANH iPhone On Sep 5, 2023, at 18:20, Alan Beck <abeck@...> wrote:
?
Any way I can have some common callsigns to try to connect to?
I live in Eastern Canada on Prince Edward Island.
Best 73,
Alan
VY2XU
From: Lee McDaniel <wb4qoj@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2023 4:56:41 PM
To: Alan Beck <abeck@...>
Cc: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [network105] Starting up
?
Alan,
? ?What us your callsign?
Lee WB4QOJ
On Tue, Sep 5, 2023, 3:55 PM Alan Beck < abeck@...> wrote:
Hi,
Wondering if I can find a few people to connect to.
I live on PEI and no idea who to connect to.
My??radio is set up well (No ALC).
I am running 100 watts into a low slung windom.
Will be getting a vertical soon.
Currently am on 14.105 lsb and? using 1600/1800 hz tone pair.
I have played with all sorts of software on vhf packet and hf packet. Direwolf being the latest. Also used Soundmodem. And of course HRD.
Best 73,
Alan
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Does anyone know the calling frequency on 17 meters and 10 meters?
Alan
VY2XU
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Tadd - KA2DEW
Chris Lance WW2BSA
Jeff KP3FT
WV8JCR - James Richardson
David, K7DMJ