Re: Keying Relay Buffer Debate
Hi Barry . . .
If enough complaints flow to Palstar, I'm sure they'll take it
seriously, if they haven't already.
Thanks for the note -- you're not the only one driven nuts!
73,
Kent? K9ZTV
On 7/11/2020 11:38 PM, Barry wrote:
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Hi
Kent,
?
I
am having the same issue intermittent faulting BYPASS SWR
and my SWR is totally fine. Drives me nuts. I didn’t know
Palstar was aware of this issue. They didn’t tell me that.
Seems
its always on CW. FT8, RTTY, SSB is totally fine. I am
direct to my Yaesu. No QSK mode here. It happens when Im
solid down on the PTT and while sending CW, cuts out during
the sending.
?
Barry
VE6UM
?
?
Mike
. . .
The tech told you correctly, especially if you are using
RF-sensing to change bands.
But remember, the LA-1K is not a QSK amplifier.
If operating full CW break-in is what lies behind your
question, then in order to prevent hot-switching and avoid
deterioration of the amplifier's relays you would need an
external electronic T/R switch, such as DX Connections
QSK-2500 ().?
But perhaps your question relates to something else.
The only issue I am having with my LA-1K at this point does
not concern hot-switching or relay deterioration, but
intermittent faulting to BYPASS SWR of which Palstar is
aware and a solution is being worked on.? The QSK-2500 is
not generating the spike (we don't think), because the
faulting still occurs with the QSK-2500 removed.
Good idea about having this (or any) discussion about
owner's problems.
73,
Kent? K9ZTV
Would like to get a discussion going on
if it is necessary to use a Keying Relay Buffer
when using the Palstar LA1K Amp. I called Palstar this week
and talked with one of their technicians and told him I was
planning on getting an LA1K amp in the near future.? I told
him that I am using an Icom IC-7300. My question to the tech
was do I need to use a Keying Buffer in between the LA1K and
the IC-7300.
Palstar told me it wasn't necessary and that I just needed
to use one RCA cable and connect it to the PTT connection.
He also said to keep the transmit power on the exciter to 40
watts. Comments, suggestions greatly appreciated.
Mike.
?
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Re: Keying Relay Buffer Debate
Hi Al,? Thanks for your post. The jumping of swr up to 1.8 is not a good indication btw. I would do some investigation on that 80m antenna or connection. This amp seems solid for the most part and i am hopeful that all of this will be resolved somehow. Hoping all the quirks will eventually be looked at and fixed as time passes. Narrowing down the issues can be difficult for sure. In my experience so far with this amp, i have gone from 50% to 99% reliable. Soldering all connectors and ensuring good connectivity and cabling has been important. And the most crucial component of all this was the serial cable going to the radio. Rf detection was way too hokey for my liking. Just by eliminating the rf detection and going direct to radio improved reliability by 40%. I can live with 99% but sure wish someone could let me know why its only going into bypass on cw. Ftdx5000. No full break in and happens while sending cw without breaking the ptt.?
If more people let Palstar know of these issues, the more importance will be placed on them resolving it. Ignoring the issue doesnt get anything done. I also might add, if it wasnt for contesting (where alot of tx per minutes are made) i would say my amp had no issues. Contests push my gear to its limits. And thats not a bad thing.
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On Jul 12, 2020, at 11:17 AM, Al Womelsdorf via groups.io <ahw609@...> wrote:
?Interesting. I am also having the same bypass issue, but only when I am using fldigi to send some message. 80m is the worst example, and is totally useless. In addition I am using the HF-AUTO tuner, which is always showing an SWR in the range 1.05 to 1.1, and the amp is showing SWR in the range of 1.2 to 1.3 when things are working correctly, but it does jump up to 1.8 and then instantly goes into bypass mode. Major PITA. Discussions with Mark did not elicit any comments about this being a known problem, basically stated it had something to do with my antenna, but I could always send the units in to be checked out. Also I tried adding a Palomar (?) choke balun to see if that helped (I already have a loop of coax at the antenna and many beads at both ends) and that made no difference other than to increase my normal SWR about .02 or so. Tried skipping the HF-AUTO and my antenna is natively about 1.6, and it still kicks out.
Sadly I have stopped recommending this equipment to others because of this issue. They are good units, and as this group has shown they are not the only ones that do this, but denying the problem will not help get things solved. SSB works fine here with no issues of this nature. Also my local HRO has sold the identical equipment (2 set-ups!) to another ham, and he has no problems, but I am not sure if he is doing any digital modes.
Al? KD2PNR
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Re: Keying Relay Buffer Debate
Interesting. I am also having the same bypass issue, but only when I am using fldigi to send some message. 80m is the worst example, and is totally useless. In addition I am using the HF-AUTO tuner, which is always showing an SWR in the range 1.05 to 1.1, and the amp is showing SWR in the range of 1.2 to 1.3 when things are working correctly, but it does jump up to 1.8 and then instantly goes into bypass mode. Major PITA. Discussions with Mark did not elicit any comments about this being a known problem, basically stated it had something to do with my antenna, but I could always send the units in to be checked out. Also I tried adding a Palomar (?) choke balun to see if that helped (I already have a loop of coax at the antenna and many beads at both ends) and that made no difference other than to increase my normal SWR about .02 or so. Tried skipping the HF-AUTO and my antenna is natively about 1.6, and it still kicks out.
Sadly I have stopped recommending this equipment to others because of this issue. They are good units, and as this group has shown they are not the only ones that do this, but denying the problem will not help get things solved. SSB works fine here with no issues of this nature. Also my local HRO has sold the identical equipment (2 set-ups!) to another ham, and he has no problems, but I am not sure if he is doing any digital modes.
Al? KD2PNR
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Re: Keying Relay Buffer Debate
Fyi I never had this issue on CW, SSB or Digital.?
However not sure if this is an effect, I checked my rise time on CW.? The default in the ICOM 756 Pro3 was way to short which can really cause key clicks out of the band.? I lengthened it and made a much cleaner signal and happy stations around me.? And no LA-1K issues.
73
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:28 AM Barry < barplo@...> wrote: Interesting that there is an admission that these amps are going into bypass mode like this. I have spoken to Mark about ?it and he says his amp never does that. Others who own their amps say theirs have never done it either. And as far as the dummy load goes, it even does it into a dummy load. I was told to send my amp back in for repair as it shouldnt be doing this. These amps should never go into bypass mode when Operating within the specs. Eg not overdriving and not having some sort of antenna or cable short. Whos right and whos wrong here? I just finished the iaru contest and on every band, using seperare antennas i had the amp 200- 800 watts out And had it swr bypassing on all bands 10-160m. When it bypasses it makes me look like a bad operator during a contact and could sacrifice a multiplier. 99% of the time its fine. Its the 1% drives me nuts. Im actually worried about sending it back for repair as if thats the way these amps are would be a waste of shipping costs as the next one wont be any better.
Another thing i noticed with the amp is if i was on 10m cw about 2khz or closer to 28.000mhz i would get instant bypass. Is that some sort of protection so cbers dont use this amp for 11m band. So much im learning here in the forums but not sure whats true and what isnt.?
Palstar has never said or admitted to me this issue and that a solution is in the works.? ?All they said is it shouldnt be doing this.
Bp On Jul 11, 2020, at 11:42 PM, Kent Trimble, K9ZTV <k9ztv@...> wrote:
?
I am in total agreement with that statement and
said as much to Palstar that perhaps the protection circuits were
too protective for the real world of antennas.? I also said
I didn't spend $3600 to laud how well the LA-1K performed into a
dummy load.
I'm confident that this will get fixed.? Palstar is a good
company.? These LDMOS amps just need further refinement.
When it does, I'll focus my energy on the SPE Expert 1.5K-FA which
has the exact same problem.
73,
Kent? K9ZTV
If the output devices in the LA-1K are rated for 64:1 SWR per
their spec sheet, why does the LA-1K not allow at least a 3:1 SWR
before faulting?? It could easily back the power off between 1.5:1
and 3:1 before going into fault.? ?It seems all SS amps are overly
cautious with SWR.
|
Re: Keying Relay Buffer Debate
Same angst when operating as NCS or passing traffic.
Kent K9ZTV
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On Jul 12, 2020, at 10:28 AM, Barry <barplo@...> wrote:
When it bypasses it makes me look like a bad operator during a contact and could sacrifice a multiplier.
|
Band data config for an Anan 7000 DLE MkII?
I think, to do band data I just use the Yaesu/Icom port on the LA-1k
I *think* the entries in the manual for the LA-1k for BCD would translate directly with the check boxes in the Thetis or PowerSDR MRX software where the 1 would be a ticked box and a 0 unticked.
Just a standard DB9 serial cable is my assumption as the reference to Null is only for the Kenwood port as well?
Anyone set this up and try it?? Just curious if I'm missing any detail here?
-- 73? de?Chris?-- KC2RGW
------------------------------------------------------------
˙dn ?p?s ????? ?o??uo? ?no? u?n?
?s???d 's??? ?u?p??? ??? no? ??
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Re: Keying Relay Buffer Debate
Interesting that there is an admission that these amps are going into bypass mode like this. I have spoken to Mark about ?it and he says his amp never does that. Others who own their amps say theirs have never done it either. And as far as the dummy load goes, it even does it into a dummy load. I was told to send my amp back in for repair as it shouldnt be doing this. These amps should never go into bypass mode when Operating within the specs. Eg not overdriving and not having some sort of antenna or cable short. Whos right and whos wrong here? I just finished the iaru contest and on every band, using seperare antennas i had the amp 200- 800 watts out And had it swr bypassing on all bands 10-160m. When it bypasses it makes me look like a bad operator during a contact and could sacrifice a multiplier. 99% of the time its fine. Its the 1% drives me nuts. Im actually worried about sending it back for repair as if thats the way these amps are would be a waste of shipping costs as the next one wont be any better.
Another thing i noticed with the amp is if i was on 10m cw about 2khz or closer to 28.000mhz i would get instant bypass. Is that some sort of protection so cbers dont use this amp for 11m band. So much im learning here in the forums but not sure whats true and what isnt.?
Palstar has never said or admitted to me this issue and that a solution is in the works.? ?All they said is it shouldnt be doing this.
Bp
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 11, 2020, at 11:42 PM, Kent Trimble, K9ZTV <k9ztv@...> wrote:
?
I am in total agreement with that statement and
said as much to Palstar that perhaps the protection circuits were
too protective for the real world of antennas.? I also said
I didn't spend $3600 to laud how well the LA-1K performed into a
dummy load.
I'm confident that this will get fixed.? Palstar is a good
company.? These LDMOS amps just need further refinement.
When it does, I'll focus my energy on the SPE Expert 1.5K-FA which
has the exact same problem.
73,
Kent? K9ZTV
If the output devices in the LA-1K are rated for 64:1 SWR per
their spec sheet, why does the LA-1K not allow at least a 3:1 SWR
before faulting?? It could easily back the power off between 1.5:1
and 3:1 before going into fault.? ?It seems all SS amps are overly
cautious with SWR.
|
Re: Keying Relay Buffer Debate
I am in total agreement with that statement and
said as much to Palstar that perhaps the protection circuits were
too protective for the real world of antennas.? I also said
I didn't spend $3600 to laud how well the LA-1K performed into a
dummy load.
I'm confident that this will get fixed.? Palstar is a good
company.? These LDMOS amps just need further refinement.
When it does, I'll focus my energy on the SPE Expert 1.5K-FA which
has the exact same problem.
73,
Kent? K9ZTV
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
If the output devices in the LA-1K are rated for 64:1 SWR per
their spec sheet, why does the LA-1K not allow at least a 3:1 SWR
before faulting?? It could easily back the power off between 1.5:1
and 3:1 before going into fault.? ?It seems all SS amps are overly
cautious with SWR.
|
Re: Keying Relay Buffer Debate
If the output devices in the LA-1K are rated for 64:1 SWR per their spec sheet, why does the LA-1K not allow at least a 3:1 SWR before faulting?? It could easily back the power off between 1.5:1 and 3:1 before going into fault.? ?It seems all SS amps are overly cautious with SWR.
|
Re: Keying Relay Buffer Debate
Hi Kent, ? I am having the same issue intermittent faulting BYPASS SWR and my SWR is totally fine. Drives me nuts. I didn’t know Palstar was aware of this issue. They didn’t tell me that. Seems its always on CW. FT8, RTTY, SSB is totally fine. I am direct to my Yaesu. No QSK mode here. It happens when Im solid down on the PTT and while sending CW, cuts out during the sending. ? Barry VE6UM ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kent Trimble, K9ZTV
Sent: July 11, 2020 9:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [la1k] Keying Relay Buffer Debate? Mike . . .
The tech told you correctly, especially if you are using RF-sensing to change bands.
But remember, the LA-1K is not a QSK amplifier.
If operating full CW break-in is what lies behind your question, then in order to prevent hot-switching and avoid deterioration of the amplifier's relays you would need an external electronic T/R switch, such as DX Connections QSK-2500 ().? But perhaps your question relates to something else.
The only issue I am having with my LA-1K at this point does not concern hot-switching or relay deterioration, but intermittent faulting to BYPASS SWR of which Palstar is aware and a solution is being worked on.? The QSK-2500 is not generating the spike (we don't think), because the faulting still occurs with the QSK-2500 removed.
Good idea about having this (or any) discussion about owner's problems.
73,
Kent? K9ZTV
Would like to get a discussion going on if it is necessary to use a Keying Relay Buffer when using the Palstar LA1K Amp. I called Palstar this week and talked with one of their technicians and told him I was planning on getting an LA1K amp in the near future.? I told him that I am using an Icom IC-7300. My question to the tech was do I need to use a Keying Buffer in between the LA1K and the IC-7300.
Palstar told me it wasn't necessary and that I just needed to use one RCA cable and connect it to the PTT connection. He also said to keep the transmit power on the exciter to 40 watts. Comments, suggestions greatly appreciated.
Mike.
?
|
Re: Keying Relay Buffer Debate
Mike . . .
The tech told you correctly, especially if you are using
RF-sensing to change bands.
But remember, the
LA-1K is not a QSK amplifier.
If operating full CW break-in is what lies behind your question,
then in order to prevent hot-switching and avoid
deterioration of the amplifier's relays you would need an external
electronic T/R switch, such as DX Connections QSK-2500
().?
But perhaps your question relates to something else.
The only issue I am having with my LA-1K at this point does not
concern hot-switching or relay deterioration, but intermittent
faulting to BYPASS SWR of which Palstar is aware and a solution is
being worked on.? The QSK-2500 is not generating the spike (we
don't think), because the faulting still occurs with the QSK-2500
removed.
Good idea about having this (or any) discussion about owner's
problems.
73,
Kent? K9ZTV
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Would like to get a discussion going on if it is necessary to use
a Keying Relay Buffer when using the Palstar
LA1K Amp. I called Palstar this week and talked with one of their
technicians and told him I was planning on getting an LA1K amp in
the near future.? I told him that I am using an Icom IC-7300. My
question to the tech was do I need to use a Keying Buffer in
between the LA1K and the IC-7300.
Palstar told me it wasn't necessary and that I just needed to use
one RCA cable and connect it to the PTT connection. He also said
to keep the transmit power on the exciter to 40 watts. Comments,
suggestions greatly appreciated.
Mike.
|
Re: Keying Relay Buffer Debate
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of JERRY Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2020 2:00 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [la1k] Keying Relay Buffer Debate ? The PTT cable is enough, I use one for my 7610 and 7300 (when I have it set up). I have a data cable between the amp and the transceiver as well in which case you don't need the PTT. 40 watts is usually the most I use. I think you can go to 60. Depending on the band you can get 1200 out of the LA-1K but I don't like to do that. Are you going to have 220 VAC to power it?
--
73,
Jerry
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Re: Keying Relay Buffer Debate
Yes, I will be supplying 220 volts to the LA-1K
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 2:00 PM JERRY < JERRY@...> wrote: The PTT cable is enough, I use one for my 7610 and 7300 (when I have it set up). I have a data cable between the amp and the transceiver as well in which case you don't need the PTT. 40 watts is usually the most I use. I think you can go to 60. Depending on the band you can get 1200 out of the LA-1K but I don't like to do that. Are you going to have 220 VAC to power it?
--
73,
Jerry
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Re: Keying Relay Buffer Debate
The PTT cable is enough, I use one for my 7610 and 7300 (when I have it set up). I have a data cable between the amp and the transceiver as well in which case you don't need the PTT. 40 watts is usually the most I use. I think you can go to 60. Depending on the band you can get 1200 out of the LA-1K but I don't like to do that. Are you going to have 220 VAC to power it?
--
73,
Jerry
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Re: Keying Relay Buffer Debate
Palstar is correct.? Make sure the RCA cable is well shielded (use a video cable)
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Keying Relay Buffer Debate
Would like to get a discussion going on if it is necessary to use a Keying Relay Buffer when using the Palstar LA1K Amp. I called Palstar this week and talked with one of their technicians and told him I was planning on getting an LA1K amp in the near future.? I told him that I am using an Icom IC-7300. My question to the tech was do I need to use a Keying Buffer in between the LA1K and the IC-7300.
Palstar told me it wasn't necessary and that I just needed to use one RCA cable and connect it to the PTT connection. He also said to keep the transmit power on the exciter to 40 watts. Comments, suggestions greatly appreciated.
Mike.
|
Mine came from factory set at -1
|
Sorry, Steve, can’t help you. ?Not an Icom man.?
Kent ?K9ZTV
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On Jul 10, 2020, at 4:13 PM, Steve Shep < shepsvettes@...> wrote: 232 cable for Icom 9100
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message -------- Date: 7/10/20 3:55 PM (GMT-06:00) Subject: Re: [la1k] ALC
Steve ...
Which cable are you referring to ... ALC, PTT, RS232 Band Control (Kenwood), or Radio Interface (Icom/Yaesu)?
73,
Kent ?K9ZTV Does the cable just do band selection and keying? ? ? I do not use it.
I do use the Band-Data DE-9 jack, however, and Direct Keying.
73,
Kent? K9ZTV
On 7/10/2020 12:15 PM, Hobart Poyser wrote: ? Who all uses ALC? About what setting do you have?
?
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232 cable for Icom 9100
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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-------- Original message -------- From: "Kent Trimble, K9ZTV" <k9ztv@...> Date: 7/10/20 3:55 PM (GMT-06:00) Subject: Re: [la1k] ALC
Steve ...
Which cable are you referring to ... ALC, PTT, RS232 Band Control (Kenwood), or Radio Interface (Icom/Yaesu)?
73,
Kent ?K9ZTV Does the cable just do band selection and keying? ? ? I do not use it.
I do use the Band-Data DE-9 jack, however, and Direct Keying.
73,
Kent? K9ZTV
On 7/10/2020 12:15 PM, Hobart Poyser wrote: ? Who all uses ALC? About what setting do you have?
?
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Paul
Jerry Raia