Re: amp to rig data cable (For Icom; the # DB7DI )
Ameritron cable ???DB7-I ? ?is 3’…
On May 6, 2023, at 10:06 PM, Ron - WA2EIO <wa2eio@...> wrote:
?I have been reading the recent postings and suggestions to use a data cable to operate the amp more 'safely' by using the? communication/data cable between the radio (IC-7100) and the amp.?? Anyone know about how long the cable is?
Ron?? WA2EIO
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amp to rig data cable (For Icom; the # DB7DI )
I have been reading the recent postings and suggestions to use a data cable to operate the amp more 'safely' by using the? communication/data cable between the radio (IC-7100) and the amp.?? Anyone know about how long the cable is?
Ron?? WA2EIO
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That is what I learned. You put it very clearly . Thanks
Steve W7CM
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Running FT8 or CW without a band cable is not a good idea.? The reason is that for both modes, the waveforms rise to full power out in less than 6ms.? The LA-1K takes between 20ms to do the band selection.? During that 14 ms time period,
your transceiver is seeing something close to an open circuit, and the relays in the LA-1K hot switch with full drive power.? Not good on either your rig or the LA-1K relays.? SSB does not have the rapid rise time, so the problem is a little less serious.?
My website may help explain this a little more.??
???? GL
.... Bill K3HZP
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Running FT8 or CW without a band cable is not a good idea. The reason is that for both modes, the waveforms rise to full power out in less than 6ms. The LA-1K takes between 20ms to do the band selection. During that 14 ms time period, your transceiver is seeing something close to an open circuit, and the relays in the LA-1K hot switch with full drive power. Not good on either your rig or the LA-1K relays. SSB does not have the rapid rise time, so the problem is a little less serious. My website may help explain this a little more.
GL
.... Bill K3HZP
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I run FT8 and I currently have the band data cable installed but I've run FT8 with and without the cable.? For me, it ran fine without the band data cable.??
73 Fred
K3FRK
On Sat, May 6, 2023 at 3:50?PM Steve Snyder < w7cm@...> wrote:
The amp would not key at times when using FT8. It gave some error message. I foget what. I researched this issue and learned about the timing issue. The sensors were not fast enough. SSB ok FT8 too slow. It fixed this issue. I don't know why folks are having
issues with the LA 1K. However, I have learned in Ham radio that some folks can have issues with anything. Often times they are the one that have issues with everything.
SteveW7CM
So what was "the issue"? What was the symptom/problem you solved? Was it related to changing tx freq while operating ft8?? It would seem like the amp would just make new minor adjustments, unless your antenna is super out of whack. Forgive me, I don't
have mine yet, so I just don't know what problem I'll be solving.
I ordered the cable anyway, because why not, but .. still curious.
Thanks
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David
AF6HO
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The amp would not key at times when using FT8. It gave some error message. I foget what. I researched this issue and learned about the timing issue. The sensors were not fast enough. SSB ok FT8 too slow. It fixed this issue. I don't know why folks are having
issues with the LA 1K. However, I have learned in Ham radio that some folks can have issues with anything. Often times they are the one that have issues with everything.
SteveW7CM
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So what was "the issue"? What was the symptom/problem you solved? Was it related to changing tx freq while operating ft8?? It would seem like the amp would just make new minor adjustments, unless your antenna is super out of whack. Forgive me, I don't
have mine yet, so I just don't know what problem I'll be solving.
I ordered the cable anyway, because why not, but .. still curious.
Thanks
--------------
David
AF6HO
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So what was "the issue"? What was the symptom/problem you solved? Was it related to changing tx freq while operating ft8?? It would seem like the amp would just make new minor adjustments, unless your antenna is super out of whack. Forgive me, I don't have mine yet, so I just don't know what problem I'll be solving.
I ordered the cable anyway, because why not, but .. still curious.
Thanks
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David
AF6HO
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Re: Inferior Design Implementation
On Fri, May 5, 2023 at 03:41 AM, tuneupmagic (null) wrote:
This clearly demonstrated yet another case of inferior design implementation found on the LA-1K amplifier.
???? How?
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When you transmit. The amp senses what frequency every time you key up. With the tether the amp knows where the radio is. That is the way it was explained to me. I know it fixed my issue.
Steve
W7CM
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Steve,
When is this a problem, when you first transmit, or when you change ft8 tx frequency?
Thanks,
David
AF6HO
On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 08:24 AM, Steve Snyder wrote:
I found that the band sensing of the LA-1K was not fast enough for FT8 on some bands. I cured that by cabling the amp to the radio.? I also run 500 watts on FT8 all the time. I watch the temp and give it a rest when it hits 60c.
?
?
Steve W7CM
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David
AF6HO
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Steve,
When is this a problem, when you first transmit, or when you change ft8 tx frequency?
Thanks,
David
AF6HO
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On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 08:24 AM, Steve Snyder wrote:
I found that the band sensing of the LA-1K was not fast enough for FT8 on some bands. I cured that by cabling the amp to the radio.? I also run 500 watts on FT8 all the time. I watch the temp and give it a rest when it hits 60c.
?
?
Steve W7CM
-- -------------- David AF6HO
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For several months I had many problems using FT-8 with my Palstar LA-1K, however when I changed my coaxial cable to a high quality cable, and better connectors the problems fade away. Nowadays I can work 10 to 40 Meters without problems.
I no longer get kicked out to BYPASS. Currently I use a maximum of 600 watts without problems, when I can hear a DX station but they don't hear me. I use a cable developed for hot regions of the World, which is marked as a FT-8 cable( is white not black), and a solid connectors from the same company. Also, I use some coaxial cables heat suppressors at each end of every coax cable(from the same company). My LA-1K at FT-8 can really heat-up fast, but this suppressor works nice. On the other hand, when the LA-1K gets close to 65 degrees the internal fan kicks-in and helps to cool down it(noisy but helpful). Any way I keep an additional fan close to the amplifier air inlet.
Finally, I test my coax cables with a VTVM meter for continuity, but also with my antenna tuner using a small 50 ohms resistor from Diamond Antenna, because? I found than even if got a good continuity with the VTVM, with the antenna tuner I could test for a solid cable-connector contact. With the tuner in one hand and the other extreme with the resistor attached to it I moved the end with the resistor in different directions and found that the SWR was constantly changing. Once I rechecked my soldering the SWR stayed absolutely solid.
I use the Italian made cable, connector and heat suppressor from Messi & Paolini. However I bet that the other companies should probably have an equivalent cable and connectors.
_____________________________
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En miércoles, 3 de mayo de 2023, 09:56:13 GMT-4, tuneupmagic (null) via groups.io <tuneupmagic@...> escribió:
What error messages popped up on the LA-1K when it kicked out?
My experience doing SSB voice is that the amp’s protection schemes could be unnecessarily set on the conservative side.
73, Ray KJ5MI?
On May 3, 2023, at 8:56 AM, Al - KD2PNR via groups.io <ahw609@...> wrote: ?I can't speak directly about FT-8, but I have tried to use my amp on other digital modes (using fldigi), and have experience a couple of different issues. For a long time it would keep kicking out into BYPASS for some unknown reason. The antenna is resonant, and I tried it straight, as well as through my HF-AUTO, and the same behaviour. Ultimately I discovered that if I set up the levels differently in the transceiver it would stop kicking out. I am only looking for about 100 watts, so I only drive it with 5W. Now that it has stopped that behaviour I can use it, but the temperature climbs like a rocket! Keep in mind that many of the other modes require longer continuous transmissions, and so after about a minute it is up over 50, and a 2 minute transmission puts it in the red (over 70). In the end I think this amp is not really suited to any digital work, and I now just go direct at 25W. Given I got this amp for some SSB use, and decidedly being able to run 100-200W in digital modes, I am disappointed. My expectation was that trying to run a 1KW amp at 100W would not be any strain on the amp at all. Good luck with FT-8, maybe with it's shorter transmission times it will work for you.
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Inferior Design Implementation
To sum things up... As stated in Ray's post /g/la1k/message/1261 an SWR as high as 2:1 is acceptable, and yet Paul (NO0T) observed that his LA-1K went to bypass as SWR went to 2:1 to protect the finals.? This clearly demonstrated yet another case of inferior design implementation found on the LA-1K amplifier. In his defense of the LA-1K, Kent (K9ZTV) writing, in part, "My Elecraft KPA500 folds back to half-output at 2:1 and goes into the red zone (cautioned as "critical" in the manual) above 2:1." in his post /g/la1k/message/1262 yesterday.? But, the KPA500 Owner's Manual: states, in part, on Page 35 " For ease in reading the critical SWR levels, the SWR LEDs are green from 1 to 1.5. The 1.5 to 2.1 SWR LEDs are yellow and the LEDs for SWRs above 2.1 are red."? It is important to note Elecraft stating that "LEDs for SWRs above 2.1 are red" as opposed to "goes into the red zone (cautioned as "critical" in the manual) above 2:1" as Kent observed in his Elecraft KPA500. In an attempt to obtain clarifications from Kent in my post /g/la1k/message/1264 yesterday, of which I haven't received a response as of this writing, I had amended it to point out that the Owner's Manual of the Elecraft KPA1500 (their top-of-the-line amp/ATU machine) states " SWR bargraph: The SWR LEDs are green from 1 to 1.5. The 1.5 to 2 LEDs are yellow and the LEDs above 2 are red" and "The bargraphs are color-coded green for normal, yellow for marginal and red for excessive levels.? Excessive levels may trigger a fault and switch the KPA1500 to STBY" on Page 18 and Page 27, respectively.? It is important to note the Elecraft KPA1500 may trigger a fault and switch to STBY if and only if it encounters excessive levels (above 2:1) of SWR.
An SWR as high as 2:1 is acceptable for the Elecraft KPA1500.? SWR reference material for all to consider: 73, Ray KJ5MI
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It makes operation very nice and removes the need for the keying line.? Enjoy your amp.
Steve
W7CM
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Thanks Steve I will pick up a radio to amp cable.?
Olen Persons
704-201-9446
On May 3, 2023, at 1:11 PM, tuneupmagic (null) via groups.io <tuneupmagic@...> wrote:
?Al,
I wouldn't put too much faith on the ability of the LA-1K being able to determine SWR with any degree of accuracy.
Observations made in March 2023:
The LA-1K on STBY mode indicated a 1.6:1 SWR operating LSB on 50.125 MHz, fed by my
FTDX101D transceiver RF output = 100W.? But, the SWR meter of my
FYDX101D indicated 1.2:1 as can be seen on my YouTube video clip:
Btw, my RigExpert AA-55 Zoom indicated a 1.28:1 SWR at 50.125 MHz.
73,
Ray
KJ5MI
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Thanks Steve I will pick up a radio to amp cable.?
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On May 3, 2023, at 1:11 PM, tuneupmagic (null) via groups.io <tuneupmagic@...> wrote:
?Al,
I wouldn't put too much faith on the ability of the LA-1K being able to determine SWR with any degree of accuracy.
Observations made in March 2023:
The LA-1K on STBY mode indicated a 1.6:1 SWR operating LSB on 50.125 MHz, fed by my FTDX101D transceiver RF output = 100W.? But, the SWR meter of my FYDX101D indicated 1.2:1 as can be seen on my YouTube video clip:
Btw, my RigExpert AA-55 Zoom indicated a 1.28:1 SWR at 50.125 MHz.
73,
Ray
KJ5MI
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Re: ICOM 7610 Interface Cable
FYI: The data cable needed for an ICOM (most) to a Palstar LA1K is an " AMERITRON Band data Interface cable DB7DI " ....as per Mark at Palstar.? if anyone needed to know.. Can be found at most Dealers.
?Chris K2HVE
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Re: LA-1K Specification: "Auto-Protect: SWR/Short Circuit/Over Temp"
On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 01:12 PM, Kent Trimble, K9ZTV wrote:
My Elecraft KPA500 folds back to half-output at 2:1 and goes into the red zone (cautioned as "critical" in the manual) above 2:1.
Hi Kent, Where would one find the information, as stated above, in the KPA500 Owner's Manual: ? 73, Ray KJ5MI PS - Elecraft Owner's Manual for the KPA1500 states the followings:
Page 18:
SWR bargraph: The SWR LEDs are green from 1 to 1.5. The 1.5 to 2 LEDs are yellow and the LEDs above 2 are red
Page 27:
The bargraphs are color-coded green for normal, yellow for marginal and red for excessive levels.
Excessive levels may trigger a fault and switch the KPA1500 to STBY
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Re: LA-1K Specification: "Auto-Protect: SWR/Short Circuit/Over Temp"
My RF-Kit Goes into the orange at 1.6 and will kick out at 2.1.
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Re: LA-1K Specification: "Auto-Protect: SWR/Short Circuit/Over Temp"
My SPE 1.5K-FA alarms at 1.7, and faults to standby at 2.1
My Elecraft KPA500 folds back to half-output at 2:1 and goes into
the red zone (cautioned as "critical" in the manual) above 2:1.
My Yaesu Quadra required ATU action above 1.5.
73,
Kent
K9ZTV
On 5/4/2023 5:09 AM, tuneupmagic (null)
via groups.io wrote:
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... demonstrating yet another case of inferior design
implementation found on the LA-1K amplifier, since an
SWR as high as 2:1 is acceptable!
Ray
KJ5MI
_._,_._,_
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LA-1K Specification: "Auto-Protect: SWR/Short Circuit/Over Temp"
In his comment here /g/la1k/message/1258 on my post /g/la1k/message/1257 yesterday, with respect to the "Auto-Protect: SWR/Short Circuit/Over Temp" feature of the LA-1K, listed as part of its specifications on as of this writing, Paul NO0T writing, in part, "I didn’t notice I was getting too far from resonance and SWR went to 2:1, it went to bypass to protect the finals.? Just as designed - woohoo! Gotta love it - dummy proof." Paul's excellent observations, as stated above, demonstrating yet another case of inferior design implementation found on the LA-1K amplifier, since an SWR as high as 2:1 is acceptable!SWR reference material for all to consider: 73, Ray KJ5MI
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Thanks all. I think I will keep running 100 150 watch and watch the temperature to let it government length of transmission. As long as the temperature does not get above 50 C, I don’t think it will be a problem as that is similar to what sideband does. I am surprised that digital output only gives me a couple hundred watch that Sideband with the same input would give me five or 600 and watts ?it’s still a little bit strange. Thanks if anybody has any other information about FT8 please share it. Thanks to all have a great day W4EZR. ?
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On May 3, 2023, at 9:56 AM, tuneupmagic (null) via groups.io <tuneupmagic@...> wrote:
? What error messages popped up on the LA-1K when it kicked out?
My experience doing SSB voice is that the amp’s protection schemes could be unnecessarily set on the conservative side.
73, Ray KJ5MI? On May 3, 2023, at 8:56 AM, Al - KD2PNR via groups.io <ahw609@...> wrote: ?I can't speak directly about FT-8, but I have tried to use my amp on other digital modes (using fldigi), and have experience a couple of different issues. For a long time it would keep kicking out into BYPASS for some unknown reason. The antenna is resonant, and I tried it straight, as well as through my HF-AUTO, and the same behaviour. Ultimately I discovered that if I set up the levels differently in the transceiver it would stop kicking out. I am only looking for about 100 watts, so I only drive it with 5W. Now that it has stopped that behaviour I can use it, but the temperature climbs like a rocket! Keep in mind that many of the other modes require longer continuous transmissions, and so after about a minute it is up over 50, and a 2 minute transmission puts it in the red (over 70). In the end I think this amp is not really suited to any digital work, and I now just go direct at 25W. Given I got this amp for some SSB use, and decidedly being able to run 100-200W in digital modes, I am disappointed. My expectation was that trying to run a 1KW amp at 100W would not be any strain on the amp at all. Good luck with FT-8, maybe with it's shorter transmission times it will work for you.
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K2HVE
Bill K3HZP
Ron - WD8T
Eric Clanton