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Semaphore signals #semaphore

 

Can you help again please.?
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Ive just installed 2 Dapol semaphore signals, with a DDC train tech decoder. ?As per the example below.


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To configure you send a switch command from the CAB,? I did this using the NMRA address 436.? The signal responded to the switch commands. (I also trid the DCC address 440 and that worked as well)


I then tried it from the Turnout control in JMRI, that worked fine.


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But when I tried it from the panel by closing the turnout or occupying the blocks there is no reaction. ?

Below is the signal set up for this mast. ??Have I missed something?

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Imust dmit not sure what the 31 in UNIT ASPECT means
 

Help please?
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Ive just installed 2 Dapol semaphore signals, with a DDC train tech decoder. ?As per the example below.


?

To configure you send a switch command from the CAB,? I did this using the NMRA address 436.? The signal responded to the switch commands. (I also trid the DCC address 440 and that worked as well)


I then tried it from the Turnout control in JMRI, that worked fine.


?

But when I tried it from the panel by closing the turnout of occupying the blocks there is no reaction. ?Below is the signal set up for this mast. ??Have I missed something?
 

On 1/6/2025 9:27 AM, Howard Witt wrote:
To configure you send a switch command from the CAB,I did this using the NMRA address 436.The signal responded to the switch commands. (I also trid the DCC address 440 and that worked as well)
I then tried it from the Turnout control in JMRI, that worked fine.
That would _seem_ to imply that the Dapol semaphore is running in some sort of a "switch-controlled" mode. In some signaling devices , this is one of two or more modes.

But when I tried it from the panel by closing the turnout or occupying the blocks there is no reaction.
I _suspect_ that you are talking about "throwing a physical switch" on the JMRI panel which prevents a "route" from the signal. And so, when the physical switch is "lined" against the route from the mast, the mast should display "Stop" (or "danger").

Please confirm! Understanding this question can drastically re-direct this question to a different problem! (But read on, regardless of your answer. There may be useful stuff below!

Below is the signal set up for this mast. Have I missed something?
This is because you have set up JMRI to configure the Dapol searchlight with the _assumption_ that it is configured in its "NMRA Extended Accessory Decoder"-mode (i.e. "Aspect"-mode).

But the Dapol Semaphore was running (from your tests using "Switch" mode), at the top of your message, in its switch-controlled mode, not in its "Aspect" mode!

Imust dmit not sure what the 31 in UNIT ASPECT means
With the "Aspect" mode, everything comes down to "aspect" numbers sent to a _single_ address associated with a "NMRA Extended Accessory Decoder"-mode device.

for "Searchlight", "Color-light", "Color-Position light" and "position-light" signals, and probably sone other types, the lamps can be "un-lit" (i.e. "all-dark", and this is useful in some prototypic situations.

But for a "Semaphore" mast, the position of the arm gives it an aspect, whether or not the lamp is lit. This is generally true for US-prototype "Semaphore" masts.

From the NMRA DCC "Aspect" number perspective, and for use with JMRI's "prototypical signaling systems", the idea that an aspect number might apply as "Unlit" is generally "not very usable" for a semaphore. In JMRI, one probably should not "enable" the "Unlit" feature for any semaphore signal head and/or semaphore signal mast.

But you must figure out whether you can reconfigure the Dapol device to use the "NMRA Extended Accessory Decoder" mode. Until you do so, the "Marrin LT25 to B5" signal mast will not be usable.
 

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Howard,

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You said you did test it from the turnout control in JMRI. It was responding to one address but closed did one thing and thrown did the other?

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If that was working, you should try creating the mast but pick ¡°Turnout Controlled Mast¡± in the Mast Driver entry for the mast.

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The other thing to try would be checking that Offset Address in the mast you included in your email. That was ¡®Marrin LT25 to B5¡¯ mast.

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But any of these changes, save the panel, then exit and reload so it isn¡¯t confused about things. Some changes require a restart to take effect. This would just insure what you have in the file is what you are using.

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Also, once you get where the mast works from the mast table, then you have to add it to the panel via the Signal Masts on the turnout. After that, tell it to create the Signal Mast Logic. Then we¡¯ll see what¡¯s working.

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-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team

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Good Evening.

To reply to the questions. ??The Semaphore were programmed from the Cab using ?signals responded to Switch commends. ?I chose these as 440 and 443

When either the signal of the turn out is toggled I get the following for LT25 up right and LT26 left of LT25.?? But on the layout only the turn outs move.? No response from the signals.

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However, I can select Turnout control and tis will toggle the semaphore.? But not the panel.

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Hope that clairfies what im seeing.
 

As a matter of interest if I were to also add some aspect type signalling would this decoder be appropriate?
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also I¡¯m having a problem that when saving a panel not all (some do) the signal logic works when I reopen. I have to do a new discovery?
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Response from the manafacturer.?
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Hi Howard,

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I assume that the decoder drive you purchased was the 4L-001-001 (or the TrainTech SC3)?

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Forgetting JMRI for the moment, once the decoder drive is set up, it is triggered by entering the accessory DCC address on a DCC handset, and then setting the ¡®direction¡¯ left or right (or north or south in some DCC systems¡¯ parlance). So, it is expecting to receive DCC commands the same as those for a point motor.

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I¡¯m not an expert with JMRI as I have only used pat of it (DecoderPro) for creating a library of loco decoder settings, so I have no idea what the ¡°NMRA Extended Accessory Decoder¡± mode is. In my logical way of thinking, I would set it up in JMRI as a point motor, which I think you have done when you say it only works with a switch command (that is, American ¡®switch¡¯ for English ¡®point¡¯ or ¡®turnout¡¯), but maybe I¡¯m mis-reading your words!

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The 4A-001-001 (and the 4A-001-002) can only be configured as far as setting the addresses; there are no other options available.

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I hope this helps, but please let me know if you have any further queries.

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Best regards,

Keith

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From:?Howard Witt <howard@...>
Sent:?Wednesday, January 8, 2025 3:49:47 PM
To:?Keith <Keith@...>
Cc:?sales <sales@...>
Subject:?Re: Dapol working semaphore signals
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Hi Keith
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Purchased two home signals and your decoder drive. However it does not seem to work with JMRI? ?It only works with a switch command such as a turn out address.?
Can device be?reconfigured the to use the "NMRA Extended Accessory Decoder" mode??
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Kind regards
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Dear Ken et all
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success! Linking it as a turn out control works. Including the blocks.?
there is a minor bug?
if the turn out is set to go and the signal is go then the block is occupied, the signal returns to stop. All good. But if the turn out is then switched to closed the signal then moves to go. So if seems to be responding to alternative commands not to the logic of the layout. As writing this had a thought if in the logic edit. What happens if you select lock to turn out??
 

A word of warning based on my experience of using the Dapol signals with the Traintech decoder and JMRI.
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I assume that you are aware that these Dapol semaphore signals?change aspect on push to make (of the yellow wires). My experience is that these signals go out of synch when a push to make is missed (which I found occasionally happened when triggered by the Traintech decoder).
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I decided to convert my Dapol signals so that they operate by an active low (0 volt) control.
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Best wishes, James.
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Hi James?
I like to understand more of what you did to adapt your signals if you don¡¯t mind.?

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