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Operations help advice
#operationspro
开云体育I’ve been using the Operations part of JMRI Panel Pro for around 4 years. ?A local friend helped to set me up with the scenario where I run 4 local trains per session two eastbound and two westbound trains. ?It is set up to print the EB and then the WB and then terminate them and run then run/pring the next EB and WB. ?It has gone very well, but I’ve recently run into an issue where I find that the locals are hauling around a bunch of cars that don’t get switched, they just Go Along for the Ride (I call it A4tR)My JMRI version is 4.24+Re…. The Java is 1.8.0_261 I know that it is time to upgrade to version 5 and I am open to your suggestions of update now or after making adustments. I have 112 cars on the layout that are involved in the operation activity. ?I have another 250 cars that are in a number of through trains but I am not involving them in this discussion. I just did a report where I exported cars by location to a spreadsheet. ?I then inspect the layout and trains to see if operators did what they were supposed to do. ?And, everything is in its place so all is good in that respect. ? Trains: Westbound #1 Starts its run with 18 cars and of this, 12 cars will just “Go Along for the Ride.” It made 5 pickups and 7 set outs so it ends up with 16 cars. Eastbound #1 Starts its run with 14 cars and of this, 10 cars will just “Go Along for the Ride.” It makes 8 pickups, 4 set outs and 1 move, so it end up with 18 cars. Westbound #2 Starts its run with 18 cars and of this 11 cars will just “Go Along for the Ride." It makes 7 pick ups, 10 set outs and ends up with 15 cars. Eastbound #2 Starts its run with 8 cars and of this 5 cars will just “Go Along for the Ride.” It has 12 pickups, and 3 set outs, 2 moves and ends up with 17 cars. The four trains at the end of the session have 66 cars. ?On the layout there are 46 cars sitting at locations or businesses on the layout. ?This adds up to my 112 cars in operation. This what the layout looks like: Coal City Creed Concrete, 5 spots with 2 cars Local Grain, 3 spots with 1 car Local Fertilizer, 2 spots with 1 car Lumber yard, 3 spots and no cars Dow Plastics Receiving tracks, 4 spots and no cars Box car shipping, 3 spots and no cars Loading, 5 spots and 3 cars Mason Grain elevator, 7spots and 2 cars John Deere dealer, 2 spots and 1 car Ransom Grain elevator, 3 spots and no cars Fertilizer spur, 2 sots and 1 car Stepan Chemical Receiving/storage, 9 spots and 4 cars Loading track, 2 spots and no cars Eastbound switch lead, 15 spots and 14 cars Streator Bottle Plant Loading, 2 spots and no cars Bottle Plant Receiving, 2 spots and 2 cars Scrap metal yard, 3 spots and 2 cars Streator switch lead, 11 spots and 4 cars Verona Grain elevator, 6 spots and 6 cars Cannery incoming, 2 spots and 1 car Cannery loads out, 2 spots and no cars My issue is a surplus of cars in the Eastbound switch lead pretty much full, but more importantly all the cars being carried along in the locals that don’t get switched at least in the session just described. I don’t get complaints from operators but for a local to just make 5 pickups and 7 set outs during a run seems pretty non challenging. ? Regarding the settings in Operations/Trains the program is set for “Aggressive.” The number of passes during a build is 4. Try normal mode is checked Enable car routing is checked Use all trains when routing is checked In Routes the shortest length is set for 1150 ft and the Maximum length is set for 1800 ft. ?In routs set outs and pickups are all indicated as yes. My layout is set of 1995 so cars are between 50 ft and 70 ft for grain cars or plastic hoppers. Let me know if anyone has any suggestions or maybe I should just run a couple more sessions to see if it all evens out again. Thanks in advance for your suggestions. Thomas Cain, MMR 755 Indianapolis, IN atsf93@... See my layout and website?at:??www.atsf93.com Modeling the Eastern Illinois?Santa Fe from the prototype |
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Hi Tom,
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If you could attach the build report for one of your trains in very detailed mode, we could review it and determine why the program isn't switching the number of cars you want.
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Note that there's an option for each train to disallow through cars. For fun, try deselecting "Allow cars to travel from origin to terminal", and let us know what happens. I'd still like to see a build report to understand how you got things configured.
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Dan
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开云体育Dan,I’ll get back to you on this on Wednesday. ?The screen that you shared looks different from anything that I have seen, which may be dependent on the version being run. Thomas Cain, MMR 755 Indianapolis, IN atsf93@... See my layout and website?at:??www.atsf93.com Modeling the Eastern Illinois?Santa Fe from the prototype
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On Mon, Nov 4, 2024 at 09:16 PM, Tom Cain wrote:
The screen that you shared looks different from anything that I have seen, which may be dependent on the version being run.Correct the screenshot is from the latest test release.? Version 4.24 has the same 8 checkbox choices, so no issue there.?? ?
You get to the window by Edit Train, then Tools, Train Build Options. |
开云体育?Dan,I found the screen that you have shown in your email and sure enough I have "allow cars to travel from origin to terminal." ?I will deselect it. But I have a question before I run the report. ?Should I reduce some of the cars from the trains before running the new train build? ?If there are a dozen or so cars on the trains, how will it manage the trains if there aren’ enough spaces/locations on the layout to handle them? ?I’m not to proud to admit that I have too many cars on the layout. Also when you say to attach the build report is it a typical background report and not the switchlest? ?If so where do I go to locate and export a detailed build report? Thomas Cain, MMR 755 Indianapolis, IN atsf93@... See my layout and website?at:?? Modeling the Eastern Illinois?Santa Fe from the prototype
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On Fri, Nov 8, 2024 at 12:00 AM, Tom Cain wrote:
Should I reduce some of the cars from the trains before running the new train build? ?If there are a dozen or so cars on the trains, how will it manage the trains if there aren’ enough spaces/locations on the layout to handle them? If the build fails with the option of no through cars enabled, we'll need to look at the build report.
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The most likely solution will involve the adjustment of the car move counts in the train's route.
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Dan |
开云体育Dan,I built my trains and the Build Reports are approximately 36 pages long. ?Would you prefer me to send them to you separately, I can’t recall if the groups allows attachments of that size. ?The trains show a little more activity, but they are still carrying along several cars that go from staging to staging. ? Also my operation sessions were set up by a friend who has the following scenario: Print Morinng EB Print Morning WB Terminate EB Terminate WB Print yard switcher, Terminate Print Afternoon EB Print Afternoon WB Terminate EB Terminate WB Print yard switcher, Terminate Thomas Cain, MMR 755 Indianapolis, IN atsf93@... See my layout and website?at:?? Modeling the Eastern Illinois?Santa Fe from the prototype
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It sounds like the problem is your minimum train length. If it can't find enough cars to set out to make length, it will add through cars so your trains are long enough.
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Thomas suggested you deselect "Allow Through Cars", but if that's all you do, builds will fail when there aren't enough setouts to meet your minimum length. Change both, and perhaps you'll get consists that are all to be set out before the far terminal.
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Cheers,
/ Bruce / |
开云体育Dan,My switch list is 2 pages, but the detailed build report is 36 pages long. ?Did you want the detailed build report? Thomas Cain, MMR 755 Indianapolis, IN atsf93@... See my layout and website?at:?? Modeling the Eastern Illinois?Santa Fe from the prototype
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开云体育I just went back to look at the train options and realized that I did not save the deselection of the allow cars to travel from origin to terminal. ?I’ll have to run the op session and try again with that options deselected.Thomas Cain, MMR 755 Indianapolis, IN atsf93@... See my layout and website?at:?? Modeling the Eastern Illinois?Santa Fe from the prototype |
开云体育I’ll look at this tomorrow. ?Can I do this for the existing train builds or only for the next one that I will do?Thomas Cain, MMR 755 Indianapolis, IN atsf93@... See my layout and website?at:?? Modeling the Eastern Illinois?Santa Fe from the prototype
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On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 09:26 PM, Tom Cain wrote:
Can I do this for the existing train builds or only for the next one that I will do? The router detail level change needs rebuilding. But that doesn't really matter, it only creates lots of pages for the build report, so the level isn't interesting unless you have a routing issue.
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As long as the first selection for detail level is "Very Detailed" that will work, and changing that detail level doesn't require rebuilding your trains.
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Dan |
开云体育Dan,I have been covered up with other work but will back at this in a week or so. Thomas Cain, MMR 755 Indianapolis, IN atsf93@... See my layout and website?at:??www.atsf93.com Modeling the Eastern Illinois?Santa Fe from the prototype
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开云体育Dan,I went to print new switch lists and build reports. ?The build reports are still over 30 pages. ?One thing that I see is that it is including every car that I have in my inventory whether it is identified in one of the locals or at a location. ?I have 112 cars that I have identified to move in op sessions, but I have 358 cars in the system. ? Initially my builds failed and I had to shift to normal builds and I had to allow cars to travel from origin to terminal. ?I wasn’t scientific enough in the process, so I’m not sure which allowed the builds to go through. ? The train activity ended up looking decent, but I still have a number of cars “going along for the ride,” and one overloaded siding. ?I’m tempted to just manually by hand shift cars and indicate their new location after this session to see how that works. ?Does that seem like a strategy? Thomas Cain, MMR 755 Indianapolis, IN atsf93@... See my layout and website?at:?? Modeling the Eastern Illinois?Santa Fe from the prototype
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On Sat, Nov 30, 2024 at 06:59 PM, Tom Cain wrote:
Does that seem like a strategy?Maybe, but not necessary a good one!? When you look at your build reports, they should be in very detailed mode, and Normal for routing.? You should be only doing two passes in aggressive mode.? And finally we need to look at your build report to see what is really happening. Cars going for a ride don't normally have places on your railroad and have to return to staging.? Attach a build report for a train that you believe should service your "overloaded siding", and let us know the name of the siding. Dan |
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I have learned that when a siding is overloaded, there's either been a mistake in car placement or the recorded length of the siding is too long. Ok, it's also possible that the length of the cars is incorrect, but the 4-foot margin for couplers can usually cover this.
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When a spur is overloaded with the correct cars, I change the "Length" of the spur to be one foot less than the "Used" value, then move the excess car manually. You may have to do this more than once to get the length right.
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Cheers,
/ Bruce /
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On Sat, Nov 30, 2024 at 03:59 PM, Tom Cain wrote:
One thing that I see is that it is including every car that I have in my inventory whether it is identified in one of the locals or at a location. ?
Hey Tom,?
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This doesn't sound right...? Any single BR should only list the cars available to the train being built, though it would examine all locations in the train's route and all cars therein.? Dan has asked numerous times for you to post an actual BR, but unless you and he are communicating offline (which is fine), I think it can be most useful for us to get to see exactly what is happening when the program attempts to construct a train for you...
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Happy to help, hope it helps,
<Pete Johnson> |
Bruce A. Metcalf
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