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Locked Operations help advice #operationspro

 

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Pete, Dan and all,

Correct, I¡¯ve had some private conversations with Dan and I¡¯m glad to share to all. ?I¡¯ve actually been on hold with some projects at church as well, so I haven¡¯t been constantly on this task, but with Thanksgiving behind us know I can spend more time with this. ?I have saved the build reports and they are all at 30+ pages so I don¡¯t know how to share them without driving the group bandwidth off the charts. ?Let me know if I just attach to an email or should I copy the whole thing and put in an email.

A couple observations. ?I¡¯m trying to understand what the report tells us. ?One thing, I have 358 cars in my Operations roster, but only 112 are used in operations. ?With the local train build reports one of the first things that I see is it has to look at all 358 cars in the roster. ?So maybe that¡¯s not an issue but it is several pages of data. ?Another issue that I see that it says it can¡¯t find a place for a car and that makes no sense as I have several sidings that have spaces for cars but they are going empty. ?In my interchange track that is overcrowded I see it list all the cars there and again it can¡¯t seem to find where to send them. ?My locations that see traffic are the industries, the interchange tracks and the local trains themselves. ?Remember I said that the local trains are carrying some cars from staging to staging or taking them along for the ride. ?So it seems the program is using the locals to store cars. ?That is why I was thinking I might need to reduce cars in the local scheme go down a dozen cars from 112 to 100. ?

Also there are interchange tracks ¡°C/I¡± tracks at each end of the layout, so some cars that need to change direction of travel get shifted to them to be picked up for a train going the other direction. ?Right now they are getting heavy on the east end of the layout while the west end does a good job of receiving and sending them out. ?Here is a sample from the build report for one car that has lived on the east switch lead for several sessions:

?Car (ROCK 516648) type (Boxcar) load (L) at (Stephan Chemical, Joliet Switch Lead)
has final destination (Ransom, ) routing begins
Could not find a track at (Ransom) able to service car (ROCK 516648)
Not able to set destination for car (ROCK 516648) due to Could not find a track at
(Ransom) able to service car (ROCK 516648)
WARNING! Car (ROCK 516648) at (Stephan Chemical, Joliet Switch Lead) can't be routed
to (Ransom, ) will attempt to move stuck car
Find destinations for (ROCK 516648) type (Boxcar) load (L) at (Stephan Chemical,
Joliet Switch Lead)
Searching location (Dow Plastics) route id 10r2 for possible destination
Can't send (ROCK 516648) directly to alternate C/I (Storage/Recieving)
Can't send (ROCK 516648) to spur (Materials Track) due to schedule no match
Can't send (ROCK 516648) to spur (Plant Loading) due to type (Boxcar)
Can't send (ROCK 516648) to spur (Transformer Load out) due to type (Boxcar)
Can't send (ROCK 516648) to C/I (Westbound Siding) due to car's final destination
(Ransom) is not allowed by track (Westbound Siding)
Could not find a track for (ROCK 516648) at destination (Dow Plastics)
Car (ROCK 516648) can be serviced later from location (Stephan Chemical) route id 10r3
Searching location (Stephan Chemical) route id 10r3 for possible destination
Car (ROCK 516648) location is equal to destination (Stephan Chemical) skipping this
destination
Did not assign a destination for car (ROCK 516648)

So why can¡¯t the program send Rock 516648 to the alternate C/I (Storage/Receiving)? ?Also Ransom can be serviced by EB or WB trains. ?The car could also be sent to Materials track as it is completely empty. ?

Thanks to all in advance for your help.

Thomas Cain, MMR 755
Indianapolis, IN
atsf93@...
See my layout and website?at:??
Modeling the Eastern Illinois?Santa Fe from the prototype

On Dec 2, 2024, at 4:32 AM, Pete Johnson via <amtrakpetey@...> wrote:

On Sat, Nov 30, 2024 at 03:59 PM, Tom Cain wrote:
One thing that I see is that it is including every car that I have in my inventory whether it is identified in one of the locals or at a location.
?
Hey Tom,?
?
This doesn't sound right...? Any single BR should only list the cars available to the train being built, though it would examine all locations in the train's route and all cars therein.? Dan has asked numerous times for you to post an actual BR, but unless you and he are communicating offline (which is fine), I think it can be most useful for us to get to see exactly what is happening when the program attempts to construct a train for you...
?
Happy to help, hope it helps,
<Pete Johnson>
 

On Mon, Dec 2, 2024 at 08:51 PM, Tom Cain wrote:
Could not find a track at (Ransom) able to service car (ROCK 516648)
Are you sure that the 'Materials" track at Ransom will allow the car type "Boxcar" with a load of "L" to be placed there?
 

On Mon, Dec 2, 2024 at 08:51 PM, Tom Cain wrote:
Can't send (ROCK 516648) directly to alternate C/I (Storage/Recieving)
The program will never send a car directly to an alternate track.? An alternate track is used when the spur associated with the alternate is full.? See the help with regards to how alternate track work:
?
?
Dan
 

On Mon, Dec 2, 2024 at 05:51 PM, Tom Cain wrote:
I have saved the build reports and they are all at 30+ pages so I don¡¯t know how to share them.
So Tom,
?
If you have followed the suggested settings for a Build Report as shown in Dan's previous post...
?
<--- Does your Build Report Options window look like this?? The key is in checking the first box and resizing all text to Font Size 7...
?
Once you have matched your settings to these above, the resultant text file should be saved in your JMRI -->Operations folder -->Buildstatus subfolder.? After noting the name of the file (for train you built that has the ROCK boxcar from the snippet you posted above),? come back to the forum and post a reply.
The text file itself can then be added here as an attachment.? This allows us to see the construct of the build, revealing key items that tell us the story of your railroad's setup.? From this, we can then offer more specific help in regards to what you can adjust to achieve your desired train behaviour.
?
I have attached a sample of a build I made for a friend, and it has the first few lines of the train's specific details.? From just this small data group, we can extract some info about the program's attempt to build my friend's train.
Your text file should not exceed 1000 kB so it should attach easily enough.
?
Unless you have a unique route for your train, I still am puzzled as to why all 358 cars are examined for movement when you built just the one train...?
?
Anyway, please attempt to give us a BR (in text format) so we can get a bigger picture, and (unless Dan has solved your quandary) offer some insights.
?
Happy to help, hope it helps,
<Pete Johnson>

BR.PNG

 

Further thoughts....
?
On Mon, Dec 2, 2024 at 05:51 PM, Tom Cain wrote:
I¡¯m trying to understand what the report tells us.
This is a great goal and I encourage you to keep after it.? But, if you'll pardon the analogy (as I certainly don't mean to insult here), that's like asking an average 2nd grader to understand the works of Shakespeare right off the bat.? What is needed is time and study, and with those can come discernment and understanding.? By way of assistance, let me echo Dan and share some info to be gleaned from your excerpt of the ROCK boxcar...
?
Now you wrote,
...is a sample from the build report for one car that has lived on the east switch lead for several sessions:
But the report tells me that this car is currently at the Location of "Stephan Chemical" on a track labelled "Joliet Switch Lead"...
Car (ROCK 516648) type (Boxcar) load (L) at (Stephan Chemical, Joliet Switch Lead)
Is this the same track to which you refer to as "the east switch lead"?
?
Additionally, the car has been assigned a final destination of "Ransom", with no track assigned once it gets there.
So, I can deduce from what you have told us, that the location of the car is at the start of the train's route and the program tries to move the car along.
Since you did not specify a particular track, the program attempts to find a track in "Ransom", but is unsuccessful, and you get the message line...
Could not find a track at (Ransom) able to service car (ROCK 516648)
Dan hints as to what might have caused this, that is, no track in "Ransom" can accept the Boxcar with its (L) status.? Otherwise the search would have been a success.
?
As a result of the failed attempt to find a track in "Ransom" capable of servicing the car, the program issues a WARNING! and attempts to move the car move on down the line.? Since the next location in the train's route (identified by its route id# 10r2) is "Dow Plastics", the tracks in this location are examined for a potential recipient.
Searching location (Dow Plastics) route id 10r2 for possible destination
But notice the order of the tracks checked...
  1. It begins with an alternate track.? Though it doesn't state for which track it is the alternate, I can infer it to be one of the spurs, since this is the purpose of an alternate, to hold cars until they can be spotted to a spur.
  2. It then looks at 3 spurs, the Materials track (which employs a schedule that must not call for receiving a Boxcar with an "L"), and 2 others, for which the car-type of Boxcar is not allowed.
  3. Finally, it checks the C/I and Yard (you have none of these apparently) tracks, where it cannot use the "Westbound Siding", because the car has a destination which is not serviced by the C/I track here at Dow Plastics.
This is the algorithmic rule set for the tracks examined, when the program is trying to find a legitimate way to move the car forward.? It is telling us what it tried to do...
?
But, alas, there is no joy to be found in "Dow Plastics" and so it can only check the last remaining location in the route, which appears to be back to the starting location of "Stephan Chemical" (route id # 10r3).
I will infer that this means the train build in question is a "turn"-type which returns to where it began...?? And here again, the program's rules set prevents that from being allowed...
Car (ROCK 516648) location is equal to destination (Stephan Chemical) skipping this destination
Now, from what you described in your post above, you seem to want the cars to be able to move to either the west or east interchanges to await a train that could then move them the opposite way back to locations for delivery.? But since you have this train returning to its originating location, that expectation of movement cannot happen.? It would require a train to move the car on to the opposite end interchange track(s) where another could then take it back to "Ransom".? Or perhaps you could build a train from the West Switch Lead that would take it to the East end and then this train could then deliver it to "Ransom" on its next trip.
?
There are many solutions that can be tried, but I hope my not-so-short explanation helps to underscore my request to see the whole BR for this train build!? If you want to deepen your understanding of the reports, go ahead and post it here, and we'll try to render assistance to make that happen.
?
Happy to help, hope it helps,
<Pete Johnson>
 

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Pete and all,

I¡¯ve looked at both your emails and it looks like one of my next steps is to go look at locations to make sure that locations are set to receive both loaded and empty cars and to check for directions they can be serviced.

I will clearly be learning how to read build reports before learning to read Shakespeare. ?That is a good analogy and I took no offense to that. ?

As noted, I¡¯ll go look at locations. ?I¡¯m attaching the six build reports for a previous op session. ?You are right it isn¡¯t going to be a huge data dump. ?The oder that trains are run is?
Local EB and WB morning trains, SD switcher 1st shift, Local EB and WB afternoon trains and then the SD switcher 2nd shift. ?The locals manage all of the switch lead interchange tracks on the west end of the layout and the SD switcher manages the Joliet Switch lead and the Westbound C/I track at the east end of the layout. ?I did some renaming of these tracks sometime back and I¡¯m now wondering if the program is searching for the wrong or missing labels of these locations.

Thanks again,

Thomas Cain, MMR 755
Indianapolis, IN
atsf93@...
See my layout and website?at:??
Modeling the Eastern Illinois?Santa Fe from the prototype


On Dec 3, 2024, at 2:14 AM, Pete Johnson via <amtrakpetey@...> wrote:

On Mon, Dec 2, 2024 at 05:51 PM, Tom Cain wrote:
I have saved the build reports and they are all at 30+ pages so I don¡¯t know how to share them.
So Tom,
?
If you have followed the suggested settings for a Build Report as shown in Dan's previous post...
?
<--- Does your Build Report Options window look like this?? The key is in checking the first box and resizing all text to Font Size 7...
?
Once you have matched your settings to these above, the resultant text file should be saved in your JMRI -->Operations folder -->Buildstatus subfolder.? After noting the name of the file (for train you built that has the ROCK boxcar from the snippet you posted above),? come back to the forum and post a reply.
The text file itself can then be added here as an attachment.? This allows us to see the construct of the build, revealing key items that tell us the story of your railroad's setup.? From this, we can then offer more specific help in regards to what you can adjust to achieve your desired train behaviour.
?
I have attached a sample of a build I made for a friend, and it has the first few lines of the train's specific details.? From just this small data group, we can extract some info about the program's attempt to build my friend's train.
Your text file should not exceed 1000 kB so it should attach easily enough.
?
Unless you have a unique route for your train, I still am puzzled as to why all 358 cars are examined for movement when you built just the one train...?
?
Anyway, please attempt to give us a BR (in text format) so we can get a bigger picture, and (unless Dan has solved your quandary) offer some insights.
?
Happy to help, hope it helps,
<Pete Johnson>

Train Build Report SD Switcher 2nd shift.pdf
Train Build Report SD Switcher 2nd shift.pdf
Train Build Report EB Local Afternoon.pdf
Train Build Report EB Local Afternoon.pdf
Train Build Report EB Local Morning.pdf
Train Build Report EB Local Morning.pdf
Train Build Report SD switcher 1st shift .pdf
Train Build Report SD switcher 1st shift .pdf
Train Build Report WB Local Afternoon.pdf
Train Build Report WB Local Afternoon.pdf
Train Build Report WB Local Morning.pdf
Train Build Report WB Local Morning.pdf
BR.PNG

 

On Wed, Dec 4, 2024 at 07:42 PM, Tom Cain wrote:
?I did some renaming of these tracks sometime back and I¡¯m now wondering if the program is searching for the wrong or missing labels of these locations.
The program uses ids and not names when dealing with the various objects in OperationsPro.? So changing a name of a location, track, train, etc. should never create a problem.
?
Dan
 

On Wed, Dec 4, 2024 at 04:42 PM, Tom Cain wrote:
As noted, I¡¯ll go look at locations. ?I¡¯m attaching the six build reports for a previous op session. ?You are right it isn¡¯t going to be a huge data dump. ?The oder that trains are run is?
Local EB and WB morning trains, SD switcher 1st shift, Local EB and WB afternoon trains and then the SD switcher 2nd shift. ?The locals manage all of the switch lead interchange tracks on the west end of the layout and the SD switcher manages the Joliet Switch lead and the Westbound C/I track at the east end of the layout.
?
Tom,
?
I looked at the BRs for all your train then went back to investigate the morning EB Local.? There is a lot going on here and I want to help with the meaning of it all, but am going to start with a small suggestion.
?
Take a look at the attached screenshot from your EB Local BR.? The notes I put on it are going to help make sense of things later, as we unpack what happens when the program attempts to build your train.?
So, start off small, and make the changes to your Staging Options and to the train's Build Options as indicated on my image.
?
By eliminating the program's ability to revert to "normal" mode when a build fails out of staging, it will force you to examine why it isn't working.? This can be frustrating for those unfamiliar with the ins and outs of the Build Report, and most new users have this option "turned on" in order to get their trains to work.? And this is exactly why it is suggested in the Help files!? But we are in search of education and this method of "bigger hammer" affords us no learning about the "whys"...
?
After you alter your options, reset the EB Local and rebuild it.? If it fails (high likelihood), post the report here for us to begin the class on the "whys".? And most importantly for now, stay patient.
?
Happy to help, hope it helps,
<Pete Johnson>

BR fix 1.PNG

 

Tom,
?
Have you had a chance to review and/or follow up with the changes to the EB Local to check on your goal realizations...?
?
Happy to help, hope it helps,
<Pete Johnson>

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