|
How much is the Icom IC-7000 going to cost me? I presume it will not
be the same price or lower than what I am paying for my new
IC-706mkiiG.
Does anyone know more about the filter options. Your English upload
says that optional filters are neither available or required. Just
how many software filters can be configured at once on the IC-7000?
Can I have a 250 Hz CW and a 500 Hz CW filter programmed at once?
Does the IC-7000 transmitter conk out around 12 volts like the
IC-706mkiiG, or is it friendlier towards 12 volt batteries?
73's
|
and this evokes another question. Could you perhaps have the cart in front of the horse? ;-).
Van,
KL7TDZ
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Show quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ya`akov N. Miles" <ve7alq@...> To: <ic7000@...> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 11:40 AM Subject: [ic7000] How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me?
How much is the Icom IC-7000 going to cost me? I presume it will not
be the same price or lower than what I am paying for my new
IC-706mkiiG.
Does anyone know more about the filter options. Your English upload
says that optional filters are neither available or required. Just
how many software filters can be configured at once on the IC-7000?
Can I have a 250 Hz CW and a 500 Hz CW filter programmed at once?
Does the IC-7000 transmitter conk out around 12 volts like the
IC-706mkiiG, or is it friendlier towards 12 volt batteries?
73's
-- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date: 2/22/2005
|
The filters are DSP so continuously adjustable to whatever you like.
I paid around $1,350 for the first 706 in HRO Virginia when it was
first introduced. So I will say the MSRP should be around $2000 and
street a little below that, say $1,799.
But this is just a guess of course.
Nobody knows if the radio can still operate at 12V yet. Stay tuned for
more info.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 25, 2005, at 12:40 PM, Ya`akov N. Miles wrote:
How much is the Icom IC-7000 going to cost me?? I presume it will not
be the same price or lower than what I am paying for my new
IC-706mkiiG.
Does anyone know more about the filter options.? Your English upload
says that optional filters are neither available or required.? Just
how many software filters can be configured at once on the IC-7000?
Can I have a 250 Hz CW and a 500 Hz CW filter programmed at once?
Does the IC-7000 transmitter conk out around 12 volts like the
IC-706mkiiG, or is it friendlier towards 12 volt batteries?
73's
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Hi Ya'akov,
To address your questions:
1. No idea. I would speculate that the initial price will be in the USD 1100
~ 1200 range.
2. The IF bandwidth setting and Twin PBT will be very similar to those of
the IC-756Pro series and the 746Pro/7400, as the DSP algorithms will most
likely be similar. I imagine that there will be 3 default BW settings for
each emission type, so you will be able to program Filter 1, 2 and 3 for
whatever BW you wish. The defaults for CW will probably be the same as on
the Pro series - 1.2 kHz, 500 Hz and 250 Hz. I believe that you are
referring to cascaded 500 and 250 Hz filters; that concept does not exist in
the DSP IF subsystem, as the DSP filters have far better shape factors than
are attainable with two cascaded analogue filters.
3. Nobody knows yet. In any event, a properly-designed charging system
should hold the battery at around 13.5V.
Cheers for now, 73,
Adam VA7OJ/AB4OJ
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Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Ya`akov N. Miles [mailto:ve7alq@...]
Sent: 25 February 2005 09:41
To: ic7000@...
Subject: [ic7000] How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me?
How much is the Icom IC-7000 going to cost me? I presume it will not be the
same price or lower than what I am paying for my new IC-706mkiiG.
Does anyone know more about the filter options. Your English upload says
that optional filters are neither available or required. Just how many
software filters can be configured at once on the IC-7000?
Can I have a 250 Hz CW and a 500 Hz CW filter programmed at once?
Does the IC-7000 transmitter conk out around 12 volts like the IC-706mkiiG,
or is it friendlier towards 12 volt batteries?
73's
Yahoo! Groups Links
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|
I would be surprised if it's over $1000 Other than the I.F. DSP is there anything else new? p49k --- In ic7000@..., MKM <mab2000@v...> wrote: The filters are DSP so continuously adjustable to whatever you like.
I paid around $1,350 for the first 706 in HRO Virginia when it was
first introduced. So I will say the MSRP should be around $2000 and
street a little below that, say $1,799.
But this is just a guess of course.
Nobody knows if the radio can still operate at 12V yet. Stay tuned for more info.
On Feb 25, 2005, at 12:40 PM, Ya`akov N. Miles wrote:
How much is the Icom IC-7000 going to cost me?? I presume it
will not be the same price or lower than what I am paying for my new
IC-706mkiiG.
Does anyone know more about the filter options.? Your English
upload says that optional filters are neither available or required.?
Just how many software filters can be configured at once on the IC-
7000? Can I have a 250 Hz CW and a 500 Hz CW filter programmed at once?
Does the IC-7000 transmitter conk out around 12 volts like the
IC-706mkiiG, or is it friendlier towards 12 volt batteries?
73's
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It may be like the PROIII...
A bunch of money to get a color screen, and a few bells and whistles in comparison to MKIIG, and 7000?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: p49k
To: ic7000@...
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 1:50 PM
Subject: [ic7000] Re: How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me?
I would be surprised if it's over $1000
Other than the I.F. DSP is there anything else new?
p49k
--- In ic7000@..., MKM <mab2000@v...> wrote:
> The filters are DSP so continuously adjustable to whatever you like.
>
> I paid around $1,350 for the first 706 in HRO Virginia when it was
> first introduced. So I will say the MSRP should be around $2000 and
> street a little below that, say $1,799.
> But this is just a guess of course.
>
> Nobody knows if the radio can still operate at 12V yet. Stay tuned
for
> more info.
>
>
> On Feb 25, 2005, at 12:40 PM, Ya`akov N. Miles wrote:
>
> >
> > How much is the Icom IC-7000 going to cost me? I presume it
will not
> > be the same price or lower than what I am paying for my new
> > IC-706mkiiG.
> >
> > Does anyone know more about the filter options. Your English
upload
> > says that optional filters are neither available or required.
Just
> > how many software filters can be configured at once on the IC-
7000?
> > Can I have a 250 Hz CW and a 500 Hz CW filter programmed at once?
> >
> > Does the IC-7000 transmitter conk out around 12 volts like the
> > IC-706mkiiG, or is it friendlier towards 12 volt batteries?
> >
> > 73's
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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> > ADVERTISEMENT
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> > Yahoo! Groups Links
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> >
> >
> > . To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> > . Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of
> > Service.
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> >
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agreed...it will be like the pro3..a little overpriced.
I still say we will pay around $1,799.
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On Feb 25, 2005, at 2:01 PM, Keith LaBorde - K4KAL wrote: It may be like the PROIII...
A bunch of money to get a color screen, and a few bells and whistles
in comparison to MKIIG, and 7000?
? ----- Original Message -----
? From: p49k
? To: ic7000@...
? Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 1:50 PM
? Subject: [ic7000] Re: How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me?
? I would be surprised if it's over $1000??
? Other than the I.F. DSP is there anything else new?
? p49k
? --- In ic7000@..., MKM <mab2000@v...> wrote:
? > The filters are DSP so continuously adjustable to whatever you
like.
? >
? > I paid around $1,350 for the first 706 in HRO Virginia when it was
? > first introduced. So I will say the MSRP should be around $2000
and
? > street a little below that, say $1,799.
? > But this is just a guess of course.
? >
? > Nobody knows if the radio can still operate at 12V yet. Stay tuned
? for
? > more info.
? >
? >
? > On Feb 25, 2005, at 12:40 PM, Ya`akov N. Miles wrote:
? >
? > >
? > >? How much is the Icom IC-7000 going to cost me?? I presume it
? will not
? > >? be the same price or lower than what I am paying for my new
? > >? IC-706mkiiG.
? > >
? > >? Does anyone know more about the filter options.? Your English
? upload
? > >? says that optional filters are neither available or required.?
? Just
? > >? how many software filters can be configured at once on the IC-
? 7000?
? > >? Can I have a 250 Hz CW and a 500 Hz CW filter programmed at
once?
? > >
? > >? Does the IC-7000 transmitter conk out around 12 volts like the
? > >? IC-706mkiiG, or is it friendlier towards 12 volt batteries?
? > >
? > >? 73's
? > >
? > >
? > >
? > >
? > >
? > >
? > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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? > > ADVERTISEMENT
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--- In ic7000@..., Adam Farson <farson@s...> wrote: Hi Ya'akov,
To address your questions:
1. No idea. I would speculate that the initial price will be in the USD 1100 ~ 1200 range. [snip] The defaults for CW will probably be the same as on the Pro series - 1.2 kHz, 500 Hz and 250 Hz. I believe that you are
referring to cascaded 500 and 250 Hz filters; that concept does not exist in the DSP IF subsystem, as the DSP filters have far better shape factors than are attainable with two cascaded analogue filters. My Icom IC7006mkiiG does not cascade the filters. There is a considerable amount of "Blow By" the narrower (250 Hz 500 Hz) filters. It will be interesting to see if Icom addresses the "Blow By" issue 3. Nobody knows yet. In any event, a properly-designed charging system should hold the battery at around 13.5V. [snip] True, while charging the battery. But when discharging the battery (for example on Field Day) you are out of luck, unless you buy Leo's Battery Booster at I know a number of IC-706xx users who have gone that route.
|
Hi Ya'akov,
By the nature of things, the concept of "blow-by" does not exist in a DSP
filter. By definition, a bitstream cannot blow by a mathematical process
through which the DSP algorithm compels it to pass.
A single 2.1V (nominal) end-cell is another solution to the lead-acid
battery-voltage drop-off problem. This technique is often used in stationary
battery plant for telecom installations. The behaviour of the IC-7000 for
Vin < 12V is yet to be determined.
Cheers for now, 73,
Adam VA7OJ/AB4OJ
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-----Original Message----- From: Ya`akov N. Miles [mailto:ve7alq@...] Sent: 25 February 2005 11:25 To: ic7000@... Subject: [ic7000] Re: How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me? --- In ic7000@..., Adam Farson <farson@s...> wrote: Hi Ya'akov,
To address your questions:
1. No idea. I would speculate that the initial price will be in the USD 1100 ~ 1200 range. [snip] The defaults for CW will probably be the same as on the Pro series - 1.2 kHz, 500 Hz and 250 Hz. I believe that you are
referring to cascaded 500 and 250 Hz filters; that concept does not exist in the DSP IF subsystem, as the DSP filters have far better shape factors than are attainable with two cascaded analogue filters. My Icom IC7006mkiiG does not cascade the filters. There is a considerable amount of "Blow By" the narrower (250 Hz 500 Hz) filters. It will be interesting to see if Icom addresses the "Blow By" issue 3. Nobody knows yet. In any event, a properly-designed charging system should hold the battery at around 13.5V. [snip] True, while charging the battery. But when discharging the battery (for example on Field Day) you are out of luck, unless you buy Leo's Battery Booster at I know a number of IC-706xx users who have gone that route. Yahoo! Groups Links Scanned by WinProxy
|
From: "Ya`akov N. Miles" <ve7alq@...>
How much is the Icom IC-7000 going to cost me? I presume it will not
be the same price or lower than what I am paying for my new
IC-706mkiiG.
Infinite dollars today. Does anyone know more about the filter options. Your English upload
says that optional filters are neither available or required. Just
how many software filters can be configured at once on the IC-7000?
Can I have a 250 Hz CW and a 500 Hz CW filter programmed at once? DSP filters not crystal filters. With dual passband tuning you can get just about any passband and center frequency in 50Hz and 100Hz steps respectively as long as it remains below the basic bandwidth setting for the filter, which is also variable in principle. Does the IC-7000 transmitter conk out around 12 volts like the
IC-706mkiiG, or is it friendlier towards 12 volt batteries? It does not run on batteries at this time. But that is because it does not run at all at this time. Apparently it is still in design not production. {^_-} W6MKU
|
From: "Adam Farson" <farson@...> 3. Nobody knows yet. In any event, a properly-designed charging system
should hold the battery at around 13.5V. And if you draw down below 12 volts you generally destroy the battery if you repeat this very often or go significantly below 12 volts. But who cares about that if it's field day and you want an extra 5 minutes out of the battery? {^_^}
|
From: "Adam Farson" <farson@...>
Hi Ya'akov,
By the nature of things, the concept of "blow-by" does not exist in a DSP
filter. By definition, a bitstream cannot blow by a mathematical process
through which the DSP algorithm compels it to pass.
Filter ringing is probably what he is hearing. The sharper the filter the more the filter rings. And it will ring to the tune of off frequency signals as well as on frequency signals. {^_^}
|
Hi Joanne,
Actually, the safe end-point of discharge for a lead-acid cell is 1.8V
(10.8V for a 6-cell, 12V battery).
Hence the end-cell. The output of a 7-cell lead-acid battery under C/10 load
will range from 14.7V (fully-charged, off the charger) to 12.6V (safe
end-point of discharge.)
In practice, it is unlikely that a Field Day setup will have a 200 Ah
battery (C/10 = 20A). Thus, the output voltage under full transmit load will
be less than the nominal value at both ends of the range, and the discharge
curve will be correspondingly shorter. Oh well, chalk up a sulphated battery
to FD incidentals...
Cheers for now, 73,
Adam VA7OJ/AB4OJ
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-----Original Message----- From: jdow [mailto:jdow@...] Sent: 25 February 2005 12:00 To: ic7000@... Subject: Re: [ic7000] How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me? From: "Adam Farson" <farson@...> 3. Nobody knows yet. In any event, a properly-designed charging system
should hold the battery at around 13.5V. And if you draw down below 12 volts you generally destroy the battery if you repeat this very often or go significantly below 12 volts. But who cares about that if it's field day and you want an extra 5 minutes out of the battery? {^_^} Yahoo! Groups Links Scanned by WinProxy
|
--- MKM <mab2000@...> wrote: agreed...it will be like the pro3..a little overpriced.
I still say we will pay around $1,799. I don't think it will be that high. That is more than the 746PRO with PS125, and more than twice the price of the Yaesu FT-857D. It is around twice the Kenwood TS-480SAT's cost. However great the 7000 is, the primary use will be mobile, and must compete for sales with other mobile rigs. If it comes in drastically above the others, I think it will drop soon--not necessarily to their level, but not twice that much, either. But my crystal ball is still cracked... 73, Paul K4PDM __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
|
--- In ic7000@..., "jdow" <jdow@e...> wrote: From: "Adam Farson" <farson@s...> [snip] Filter ringing is probably what he is hearing. The sharper the filter the more the filter rings. And it will ring to the tune of off frequency signals as well as on frequency signals. I should like to disagree. Neither of my two filters ring. Signals 5 kHz off frequency sneak past the 500 Hz and the 250 Hz filters in the Icom IC-706mkiiG. I know it is "blow-by" because I hear the signals offset by the correct amount (2.5 kHz to 7.5 kHz) as high pitched (Morse). I can tune in these signals and of course they are _much_ louder inside the filter passband. Signal strengths I am talking about are 40 over S9 within the filter passband and S5 or less when "blowing by" the filter. I trust that this is not going to be an issue with the ic7000
|
I agree with Paul, I say it will be in the ballpark of the 857D. the Kenwood 480 has more power or built in antenna tuner to "almost" justify it's cost. It would have to have more bands like 222MHz to be worth more than what an 857D goes for. P49K --- In ic7000@..., Paul Manuel <k4pdm@y...> wrote:
--- MKM <mab2000@v...> wrote:
agreed...it will be like the pro3..a little overpriced.
I still say we will pay around $1,799. I don't think it will be that high. That is more than the 746PRO
with PS125, and more than twice the price of the Yaesu FT-857D. It is around twice the Kenwood TS-480SAT's cost. However great the 7000 is, the primary use will be mobile, and must compete for sales with other mobile rigs. If it comes in drastically above the others, I think it will drop soon- -not necessarily to their level, but not twice that much, either.
But my crystal ball is still cracked...
73,
Paul K4PDM
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If you say so. I have the graphs here that say you are misinterpreting
what you are seeing and hearing. What you are calling blow by of CW
signals is indeed ringing. It is a vicious problem with sharp filters.
I spent quite some effort for a fast frequency hopping radio getting
the ringing down to levels such that I did not experience jamming
by strong adjacent channel signals simply due to this basic property
of filters. A softer stop band curve will show less ringing for
signals outside the passband. It will snow less attenuation of pure
continuous carriers. At some point there is an optimal compromise for
your given application. I note that the basic ProII filters are VERY
sharp. As such mathematical analysis of the filter properties suggests
you will get filter output excited by signals outside the filter's
passband and that this will be an annoying problem in most cases.
It will be an issue with any transceiver that has a very sharp
CW filter. There's nothing that can be done about it.
As an aside what engineers call blow by is actual signal leakage
around the filter when tested with continuous carriers. The digital
filters appear to have precious little of this blow by. The filter
lobes are far enough below the passband level that you're talking
of a fantasy world with better filtering the last I checked on my
ProII.
I really figure what CW operators call blow by is something entirely
different, filter ringing due to excitation from off frequency
signals. The more "key click" the off frequency signal has the worse
this ringing will be. And note that the ringing will not necessarily
be classic 100Hz single crystal filter ringing that happens with on
frequency signals due simply to the narrow pass band.
If you want to use filters correctly in weak signal vs. strong signal
environments it does pay to understand your filter characteristics
very intimately so you can make useful compromises.
{^_^} W5MKU, who has considerable experience designing exotic
receivers and frequency synthesizers usually for military
applications.
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Ya`akov N. Miles" <ve7alq@...> --- In ic7000@..., "jdow" <jdow@e...> wrote:
From: "Adam Farson" <farson@s...> [snip]
Filter ringing is probably what he is hearing. The sharper the filter
the more the filter rings. And it will ring to the tune of off frequency
signals as well as on frequency signals. I should like to disagree. Neither of my two filters ring. Signals 5
kHz off frequency sneak past the 500 Hz and the 250 Hz filters in the
Icom IC-706mkiiG. I know it is "blow-by" because I hear the signals
offset by the correct amount (2.5 kHz to 7.5 kHz) as high pitched
(Morse). I can tune in these signals and of course they are _much_
louder inside the filter passband. Signal strengths I am talking
about are 40 over S9 within the filter passband and S5 or less when
"blowing by" the filter.
I trust that this is not going to be an issue with the ic7000
|
Respectfully I disagree.
Icom seems to have their own pricing agenda. In a sense they do not
compete with Yaesu or Kenwood in their minds. I truly believe that they
believe they are the best and charge accordingly for their radios.
Of course I want lower prices like everyone else but, this time I truly
believe the radio will cost around the price I stated before. Again
they will not compete with the likes of yaesu ft857 and such.
People will still buy the ft857.
Most of the people on this group will go for the 7000, especially
owners of 7800 and pro3s.
I always been an Icom person. This is like being an Apple fan. Yes they
charge more, but boy what an experience.
-best
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On Feb 25, 2005, at 3:39 PM, p49k wrote:
I agree with Paul,
I say it will be in the ballpark of the 857D.
the Kenwood 480 has more power or built in antenna
tuner to "almost" justify it's cost.
It would have to have more bands like 222MHz to be
worth more than what an 857D goes for.
P49K
--- In ic7000@..., Paul Manuel <k4pdm@y...> wrote:
>
> --- MKM <mab2000@v...> wrote:
> > agreed...it will be like the pro3..a little overpriced.
> > I still say we will pay around $1,799.
>
> I don't think it will be that high. That is more than the 746PRO
with
> PS125, and more than twice the price of the Yaesu FT-857D. It is
around
> twice the Kenwood TS-480SAT's cost. However great the 7000 is, the
primary
> use will be mobile, and must compete for sales with other mobile
rigs. If
> it comes in drastically above the others, I think it will drop soon-
-not
> necessarily to their level, but not twice that much, either.
> But my crystal ball is still cracked...
> 73,
> Paul K4PDM
>
>
> ?????
> ????? ?????
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
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If you are correct with pricing then it will be a big mistake for ICOM. P49K --- In ic7000@..., MKM <mab2000@v...> wrote: Respectfully I disagree.
Icom seems to have their own pricing agenda. In a sense they do not
compete with Yaesu or Kenwood in their minds. I truly believe that they
believe they are the best and charge accordingly for their radios.
Of course I want lower prices like everyone else but, this time I truly
believe the radio will cost around the price I stated before. Again
they will not compete with the likes of yaesu ft857 and such.
People will still buy the ft857.
Most of the people on this group will go for the 7000, especially
owners of 7800 and pro3s.
I always been an Icom person. This is like being an Apple fan. Yes they
charge more, but boy what an experience.
-best
On Feb 25, 2005, at 3:39 PM, p49k wrote:
I agree with Paul,
I say it will be in the ballpark of the 857D.
the Kenwood 480 has more power or built in antenna
tuner to "almost" justify it's cost.
It would have to have more bands like 222MHz to be
worth more than what an 857D goes for.
P49K
--- In ic7000@..., Paul Manuel <k4pdm@y...> wrote:
>
> --- MKM <mab2000@v...> wrote:
> > agreed...it will be like the pro3..a little overpriced.
> > I still say we will pay around $1,799.
>
> I don't think it will be that high. That is more than the 746PRO
with
> PS125, and more than twice the price of the Yaesu FT-857D. It is
around
> twice the Kenwood TS-480SAT's cost. However great the 7000 is, the
primary
> use will be mobile, and must compete for sales with other mobile
rigs. If
> it comes in drastically above the others, I think it will drop
soon- -not
> necessarily to their level, but not twice that much, either.
> But my crystal ball is still cracked...
> 73,
> Paul K4PDM
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
>
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Hi Ya'akov,
This phenomenon (actual blow-by caused by inadequate stopband attenuation of
the filter, or signal leakage around the filter) cannot occur in a DSP
filter system, as the stopband attenuation and comebacks (lobes) are a long
way below the 0 dBr passband-centre reference.
Have you attempted to measure the blow-by in your 706 by sweeping across the
passband with a signal generator and measuring the audio output in the
passband and stopband?
Cheers for now, 73,
Adam VA7OJ/AB4OJ
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-----Original Message----- From: Ya`akov N. Miles [mailto:ve7alq@...] Sent: 25 February 2005 12:22 To: ic7000@... Subject: [ic7000] Re: How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me? --- In ic7000@..., "jdow" <jdow@e...> wrote: From: "Adam Farson" <farson@s...> [snip] Filter ringing is probably what he is hearing. The sharper the filter the more the filter rings. And it will ring to the tune of off frequency signals as well as on frequency signals. I should like to disagree. Neither of my two filters ring. Signals 5 kHz off frequency sneak past the 500 Hz and the 250 Hz filters in the Icom IC-706mkiiG. I know it is "blow-by" because I hear the signals offset by the correct amount (2.5 kHz to 7.5 kHz) as high pitched (Morse). I can tune in these signals and of course they are _much_ louder inside the filter passband. Signal strengths I am talking about are 40 over S9 within the filter passband and S5 or less when "blowing by" the filter. I trust that this is not going to be an issue with the ic7000 Scanned by WinProxy
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Adam Farson