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Re: Overheating - urban legend

 

Initial position of thermistor was? roughly center of the edge of the board.
I moved it (extended leads) to the area to one side of the finals where it
seemed to get the hottest.
?
I've seen more than a few that run very warm.?
?
--
Allison
Re: Overheating - urban legend

 

Excellent work, Allison. ?Thank you for sharing.

I’m much happier with things since doing one of the published fan control mods (so that fan is enabled at a lower temperature). ? ?
?
Personally, I didn’t feel the need to alter the position of the thermistor, or thermally bond it to the heat sink (as described in the fan control modification). ?Time will tell :-)
?
Re: Overheating - urban legend

 

Where was the thermistor located before you moved it?
Bob W4JFA

On Tue, Jan 7, 2025 at 12:04?PM ajparent1/kb1gmx via <kb1gmx=[email protected]> wrote:
Data...
?
from new the IC7000 ran 14-18C hotter than ambient (20C).? The hot spots
aligned with thermal pads.
?
Testing with a ditter on CW at half power netted a 30C climb in the hottest
areas.? The heatsink for the finals was at 54C, operation? at that level or
higher will impact the life of the finals and drivers (close thermal location).
?
Opening the unit while hot showed NO FAN operation.? Heating the
thermister used to sense temps was no fan operation until it was over
45C at the sensor.? ??
?
That is too hot for good lifespan.? That's based on my experience and
knowledge of reliability engineering.? ?Sure one unit may last for ever
but do that to 1000s of them and that will not be true.
?
First fix tried was new thermister, then altered the circuit values for lower?
activation temp (~32C).? That helped when under stress (during high use
TX) but the unit was always very warm.? Relocating the thermister to the
finals (heatsink) helped keep them somewhat cooler.? Adding the fan mod
(resistor) caused a significant drop in?the case temp of +14-18C (over ambient)
measured earlier to +2- to +3C over ambient.? ? It also lowered the temps
of the finals and drivers?during intermittent operation.? ?Being cooler also
lowered the timebase (frequency) error and that showed most on
144 and 432 operations.
?
Over all the high temps and thermal cycles is known to increase failure
rates over time.? Having the radio running generally cooler cannot hurt.
If dust is an issue then a occasional cleaning is worth doing.
?
--
Allison
Re: Overheating - urban legend

 

开云体育

Allison

Thanks for the data.
I have been lucky with my unit, ?now going on ?15 years of admittedly, light duty.

Seems like there may be ? ficant unit to unit variability. Maybe different brands of heat paste ? or other differences in heat conduction chain.

73

Kurt

On Jan 7, 2025, at 9:04 AM, ajparent1/kb1gmx via groups.io <kb1gmx@...> wrote:

?
Data...
?
from new the IC7000 ran 14-18C hotter than ambient (20C).? The hot spots
aligned with thermal pads.
?
Testing with a ditter on CW at half power netted a 30C climb in the hottest
areas.? The heatsink for the finals was at 54C, operation? at that level or
higher will impact the life of the finals and drivers (close thermal location).
?
Opening the unit while hot showed NO FAN operation.? Heating the
thermister used to sense temps was no fan operation until it was over
45C at the sensor.? ??
?
That is too hot for good lifespan.? That's based on my experience and
knowledge of reliability engineering.? ?Sure one unit may last for ever
but do that to 1000s of them and that will not be true.
?
First fix tried was new thermister, then altered the circuit values for lower?
activation temp (~32C).? That helped when under stress (during high use
TX) but the unit was always very warm.? Relocating the thermister to the
finals (heatsink) helped keep them somewhat cooler.? Adding the fan mod
(resistor) caused a significant drop in?the case temp of +14-18C (over ambient)
measured earlier to +2- to +3C over ambient.? ? It also lowered the temps
of the finals and drivers?during intermittent operation.? ?Being cooler also
lowered the timebase (frequency) error and that showed most on
144 and 432 operations.
?
Over all the high temps and thermal cycles is known to increase failure
rates over time.? Having the radio running generally cooler cannot hurt.
If dust is an issue then a occasional cleaning is worth doing.
?
--
Allison
Re: Overheating - urban legend

 

Data...
?
from new the IC7000 ran 14-18C hotter than ambient (20C).? The hot spots
aligned with thermal pads.
?
Testing with a ditter on CW at half power netted a 30C climb in the hottest
areas.? The heatsink for the finals was at 54C, operation? at that level or
higher will impact the life of the finals and drivers (close thermal location).
?
Opening the unit while hot showed NO FAN operation.? Heating the
thermister used to sense temps was no fan operation until it was over
45C at the sensor.? ??
?
That is too hot for good lifespan.? That's based on my experience and
knowledge of reliability engineering.? ?Sure one unit may last for ever
but do that to 1000s of them and that will not be true.
?
First fix tried was new thermister, then altered the circuit values for lower?
activation temp (~32C).? That helped when under stress (during high use
TX) but the unit was always very warm.? Relocating the thermister to the
finals (heatsink) helped keep them somewhat cooler.? Adding the fan mod
(resistor) caused a significant drop in?the case temp of +14-18C (over ambient)
measured earlier to +2- to +3C over ambient.? ? It also lowered the temps
of the finals and drivers?during intermittent operation.? ?Being cooler also
lowered the timebase (frequency) error and that showed most on
144 and 432 operations.
?
Over all the high temps and thermal cycles is known to increase failure
rates over time.? Having the radio running generally cooler cannot hurt.
If dust is an issue then a occasional cleaning is worth doing.
?
--
Allison
Re: Overheating - urban legend

 

Ludovic

Data , what a great idea!

73
Kurt
KD6LZV

On Jan 1, 2025, at 10:30 AM, Ludovic Ludo via groups.io <f5pbg@...> wrote:

?Le 01/01/2025 à 14:43, Bob KM4RL a écrit :
A 2 watt resistor is good for 12 volt systems. I favor 150 Ohm resistors
to bypass fan thermostats in Astron SS-30 power supplies and other equipment.
The top cover of the IC7000 is a heat sink. There's a reason it has thermal pads.
Take a thermal camera and you'll see that the heating isn't that great after all.

The modification with the fan running all the time will cause dust to accumulate
inside over the long term. You'll need to clean it from time to time.

Personally, I cool it with an external fan and a KSD9700
because the hot air is blocked by a shelf 10 cm above it.

Before, it wasn't cooled down and the unit has been in operation
for almost 100,000 hours...

Search my videos on tiktok and thermal camera measurement...
?

Best regards,
Ludovic - F5PBG
Overheating - urban legend

 

Le 01/01/2025 à 14:43, Bob KM4RL a écrit?:
A 2 watt resistor is good for 12 volt systems. I favor 150 Ohm resistors
to bypass fan thermostats in Astron SS-30 power supplies and other equipment.
The top cover of the IC7000 is a heat sink. There's a reason it has thermal pads.
Take a thermal camera and you'll see that the heating isn't that great after all.

The modification with the fan running all the time will cause dust to accumulate
inside over the long term. You'll need to clean it from time to time.

Personally, I cool it with an external fan and a KSD9700
because the hot air is blocked by a shelf 10 cm above it.

Before, it wasn't cooled down and the unit has been in operation
for almost 100,000 hours...

Search my videos on tiktok and thermal camera measurement...
??? ?

Best regards,
Ludovic - F5PBG
Re: Battery not essential for operation

 

Hello,

the backup battery in the DSP module only stores the time...
No need to replace one, it works fine without it.

I've been using the IC7000 like this for years.

It should not be left in place because if it leaks,
the acid will destroy the tracks on the printed circuit board...

Best regards,
Ludovic - F5PBG
(YouTube, etc...)
Re: IC-7000 corrupted eeprom

 

Hello,

the backup battery in the DSP module only stores the time...
No need to replace one, it works fine without it.

I've been using the IC7000 like this for years.

It should not be left in place because if it leaks,
the acid will destroy the tracks on the printed circuit board...

Best regards,
Ludovic - F5PBG
(YouTube, etc...)
Re: Overheating during a contest

 

Thanks -
Norm
W6NIM

??????? Barb Stewart
3/28/1938 - 9/26/2024
sent from my Galaxy Tab A


On Wed, Jan 1, 2025, 7:43 AM Bob KM4RL via <km4rl=[email protected]> wrote:
A 2 watt resistor is good for 12 volt systems. I favor 150 Ohm resistors to bypass fan thermostats in Astron SS-30 power supplies and other equipment.
73 de Bob KM4RL.
Re: Overheating during a contest

 

A 2 watt resistor is good for 12 volt systems. I favor 150 Ohm resistors to bypass fan thermostats in Astron SS-30 power supplies and other equipment.
73 de Bob KM4RL.
Re: IC-7000 corrupted eeprom

 


thhe internal battery is just there to keep the time/date clock running.
Re: Overheating during a contest

 

May have been mentioned, but what wattage for the 100 ohm resistor?

??????? Barb Stewart
3/28/1938 - 9/26/2024
sent from my Galaxy Tab A


On Tue, Dec 31, 2024, 9:34 PM ajparent1/kb1gmx via <kb1gmx=[email protected]> wrote:
I performed the fan mod (added resistor) and it went from always
really hot to mostly cold.? It seemed to need little air to make
a significant difference.
?
I also mounted a set of the PortableZero side rails as I have them
on my?IC7300 and FT817.? That helps some as its more aluminum
to help dissipate heat.??
?
--
Allison
Re: Overheating during a contest

 

I performed the fan mod (added resistor) and it went from always
really hot to mostly cold.? It seemed to need little air to make
a significant difference.
?
I also mounted a set of the PortableZero side rails as I have them
on my?IC7300 and FT817.? That helps some as its more aluminum
to help dissipate heat.??
?
--
Allison
Re: IC-7000 corrupted eeprom

 

Thanks Tony and all the best for 2025.
I have reached out to ICOM here in Australia and not much help on the technical front but hey can sell me a replacement board for 650AUD.
Too expensive and would rather wait for a second hand unit to pop up or try and resolve the issue.
I like your idea regarding the replacement IC - this could be an option and i will follow up when things get back to normal here.
I have attached pics of the Asix ICSP programmer which i use to read/write the eeprom.
Attached is a copy of my eeprom as well.
I also have an application note ( cant find one for the 2377A ) but similar and may look at trying to get a copy of the MCU flash.
regards
James

REN_rej06j0003_fdth8s2378f_s_APN_20060628.pdf
REN_rej06j0003_fdth8s2378f_s_APN_20060628.pdf
PXL_20241229_222405915.MP.jpg
PXL_20241231_231815425.jpg
PXL_20241231_231843380.jpg
AU first read.bin
AU first read.bin

Re: IC-7000 corrupted eeprom

 

Hi James..
?
I knew suggesting removing the backup battery was a long shot as eeproms don't need them.. but it is a mystery what has happened to your 7000 so anything is worth trying in this case.
I'm sorry at this stage I can't be of more help to you.
There are certain components in the schematics that are inside dotted lines suggesting differences for other regions and one of those components might have brought the cpu to write to the eeprom and change something. So comparing the Japanese cpu board against your own might help. The problem here is Japan is not even mentioned on the Matrix diagrams (Only Korea on the one I have) and we only have one service manual available online as far as I know.. so information is limited.
I would still suggest speaking to Icom because they might shed some light on your problem..!
I do know they never repaired Logic boards but they might give you a reason for what happened.
Wish you good luck and hope you find a solution.
?
As for the backup battery I think Steve is puzzled because the manual states there is none.. however.. I've seen a photo of a soldered-in 3v lithium battery on a 7000 Logic board.. and arguments about it too!
?
Best wishes to all for 2025 !
?
Re: IC-7000 corrupted eeprom

 

Hi Steve
I understand what you are saying but anything is worth a shot even if the probability is very low.
There must be more to the eeprom data than what the manual is stating and the only device that can write to this device is the MCU.
If the MCU detects something is not normal it may write or delete some data either in the eeprom or MCU flash.
This may not be by design as well but a software glitch which was overlooked due to the developers thinking that a US logic board will never find its way into a Japanese radio albeit a radio that was probably put together using faulty components just to make a sale.
regards
James
Re: IC-7000 corrupted eeprom

 

On Mon, Dec 30, 2024 at 04:35 PM, Tony T wrote:
Another thing to do is remove the backup battery and see what this brings as set-modes are stored in that eeprom.. and you never know (!)
I'm puzzled by this comment.? ?

On Page 137 of my instruction manual (A-6462H-1EX-q? ? 2005 Icom Inc.), it states:
All of the CPU’s memory is backed up by an EEPROM
(Electronically-Erasable Programmable Read-
Only Memory). All data you set, such as VFO,
memory, set mode contents, etc. are stored in this
EEPROM. There is no internal lithium battery.

Was there a design change during production?? What gets backed-up by the battery (when fitted)?
Re: IC-7000 corrupted eeprom

 

Hi Tony
all the best for the new year to all in this forum.
I thought that returning the logic board to my radio would have returned it to previous personality but not the case.
I would need to fully examine the two units to see what differences there are.
I have also removed the battery and done the full reset but still the same.
Will have to shelve it unit I can get a logic board at a reasonable price.
All the best Tony
james
Re: IC-7000 corrupted eeprom

 

On Sun, Dec 29, 2024 at 09:53 PM, James Tiberius wrote:
There is a chance that the CPU has detected something on the main board and written data either to itself or the eeprom and changing the personality of the radio.
If this was the case James wouldn't your Main board have written it back to it's own personality..?
?
You didn't sday if you'd done a hard reset.
Another thing to do is remove the backup battery and see what this brings as set-modes are stored in that eeprom.. and you never know (!)
?
rgds
?
Tony
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