Re: [IC-7000] Radio Restarts on Engine Startup
Keith:
".....the radio shuts down and restarts."??? It's a normal function of the -7000.
Those who suggest you turn the radio off before starting the engine, are correct.
In some mobile installations... what can happen when the battery voltage drops too low, in effect, can re-boot the radio's microprocessor. You could then find yourself on a wholly different frequency, in a different band, and on a different mode. This can become very embarrassing if one does this during a QSO, w/the other guy/gal saying, "Where'd he go?! Where'd he go??!!!"; I know, it's happened to me(!!), 'tho not necessarily w/the 7000.
Better safe than sorry. Just QRX for a few brief seconds, shut the radio off, start the vehicle, and turn the set back on....simple...and the other guy's still there.
jd/K1TLV
On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 9:17 PM, kdbrady1963@... <kdbrady1963@...> wrote:
?
When I have my radio on, running from the vehicle battery and I start the engine, the radio shuts down and restarts. How can I keep this from happening?
Thank you,
Keith - KB0CAP
|
Re: [IC-7000] Radio Restarts on Engine Startup
Bad idea.... Voltage transients during the start cycle can cause voltages to
rise beyond 30 volts. First the starter drops the voltage like a rock and
as the engine catches, the alternator is unregulated for a short period
letting the voltage jump from inductive transients and "stacking" of the
alternator output on the battery voltage.
Perry - K4PWO
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-----Original Message-----
From: ic7000@... [mailto:ic7000@...] On Behalf Of
kdbrady1963@...
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2014 8:18 PM
To: ic7000@...
Subject: [IC-7000] Radio Restarts on Engine Startup
When I have my radio on, running from the vehicle battery and I start the
engine, the radio shuts down and restarts. How can I keep this from
happening?
Thank you,
Keith - KB0CAP
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Re: [IC-7000] Radio Restarts on Engine Startup
?
Use a seperate battery not the one that starts the
engine.
?
Monroe AF6JC
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2014 7:19
PM
Subject: Re: [IC-7000] Radio Restarts on
Engine Startup
?
Turn off the radio before you start the vehicle.?
?
When I have my radio on, running from the vehicle battery and I start the
engine, the radio shuts down and restarts. How can I keep this from
happening?
Thank you,
Keith - KB0CAP
|
Re: [IC-7000] Radio Restarts on Engine Startup
My solution was to put an auxiliary battery near the radio, in parallel with the car battery. ?It doesn't take much in RX to prevent the reset. ?I use an 80 AH, but a 7 AH would work if you only want it to bridge the gap during start up. ?This will also reduce voltage drops on the supply cable from the car battery, since peak currents can be sourced from the auxiliary battery, reducing the IR drop on the cable from the hood area. ?Plus, you're always ready for portable operation!
The bigger issue is the voltage spikes from the starter motor. ?They can easily exceed the 30 volts maximum drain to source rating of UHF PA FET, leading to early failure. ?I always use a RigRunner for DC distribution, so I added a 15 volt TVS diode(Transient Voltage Suppressor) across the input of the RigRunner. ?Info on how to do it is in this group's Files section as Rigrunner TVS Mod.doc. ?This will also protect against reverse polarity connections and power supply overvoltage failures.
Steve, W3AHL ---In ic7000@..., <kdbrady1963@...> wrote: Thanks, Dennis. It was more of a convenience thing. However, I will just turn the radio off each time I turn the engine off, since that's the case.
Keith - KB0CAP
...Please forgive me for any possible typos. :-)
On Jan 12, 2014, at 21:49, Dennis Klipa <klipadk@...> wrote:
?
Keith,
The radio goes off because your battery voltage drops below about 11 volts or so, when your starter draws a ton of current from the battery. ?Since the starter is an inductive load, the possibility exists that you could generate some serious voltage spikes. ?Most of the time, they don't cause a problem, but they could. ?It is best practice to turn off the radio before starting the engine.
If you don't want to turn off the radio, then you are going to have to have a way of maintaining a reasonably constant voltage while you battery voltage drops. ?About 5 car batteries in parallel might do it, maybe. ?Alternatively, some kind of DC to DC uninteruptable power supply would be in order. ?I can't imagine any scenario where not wanting to turn off the radio would justify the expense, at least for me.
So, ?why not turn off the radio for 5 seconds while you start the car?
Best Regards, Dennis, N8ERF
|
Re: [IC-7000] Shutting off when keying up
I agree with Perry, but clean the fuse's blade contacts also.
?That will last a few months usually. ?Icom's fuse holders are a
disgrace. ?They don't dig through the oxide coating on the fuse
blade. ?Heat and humidity gradually result in an oxide layer on
the blade, which can't really be cleaned off, even with Deoxit
cleaner.
Maybe the fact I live in a relatively dry climate and the radio is
on 24x7 are the reasons for my fuse longevity.? :)
--
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
|
Re: [IC-7000] Shutting off when keying up
I just turned on my 7000 for the first time in a couple of months
and on 2 meter it is receiving, but when i key up to transmit it
shuts off. I do not currently have a HF antenna up. Anyone have
any ideas or experience with this?
I'd check the DC supply, particularly the fuses in the DC leads,
which are known to cause problems.? Mine have been fine for over 3
years *touches wood*, but they are a common failure.? Nothing that
can't be fixed with new fuse holders.
--
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
|
Re: [IC-7000] Radio Restarts on Engine Startup
On Mon, 13 Jan 2014 02:17:52 -0000, kdbrady1963@... wrote: When I have my radio on, running from the vehicle battery and I start the
engine, the radio shuts down and restarts. How can I keep this from happening? I'll start with the normal caveat. Don't leave your radio on when you start the car. Never - Ever. There. That's said. I do it all the time on all of my vehicles. I know the risk, and I'm willing to take it. I do NOT have a 7000 or 706 in any vehicle though, only dualbanders. If I had the 7K in any vehicle, I would turn it off when starting, just to be safe. THE RADIO IS DOING WHAT IT IS SUPPOSED TO DO. It is a safety function of the radio to shut down below a certain voltage. You can minimize the effect by making sure you have very low resistance connections to the battery. Heavy wire, clean connections, direct to the battery, etc. How to get around your problem... If you want to be pretty safe about it, run a second battery, like many people do. Charge the battery when the vehicle is running and disconnect it when it isn't running. THEN, purchase a reasonably new device that holds the voltage at the proper amount, even when the input drops below that point. MFJ makes one (MFJ-4416B), and I know there are others. They are "magic", and will raise the voltage to the radio even when the input to the device is less than 10V. I do NOT know how fast these devices react, but I have two friends who have them and swear by them. One of them is on a wind charger system and it makes up for when the batteries are sagging. Hope that helps. Gary -- Web: NodeOp Page: Node 3055:
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Re: [IC-7000] Radio Restarts on Engine Startup
Thanks, Dennis. It was more of a convenience thing. However, I will just turn the radio off each time I turn the engine off, since that's the case.
Keith - KB0CAP
...Please forgive me for any possible typos. :-)
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Show quoted text
On Jan 12, 2014, at 21:49, Dennis Klipa < klipadk@...> wrote:
?
Keith,
The radio goes off because your battery voltage drops below about 11 volts or so, when your starter draws a ton of current from the battery. ?Since the starter is an inductive load, the possibility exists that you could generate some serious voltage spikes. ?Most of the time, they don't cause a problem, but they could. ?It is best practice to turn off the radio before starting the engine.
If you don't want to turn off the radio, then you are going to have to have a way of maintaining a reasonably constant voltage while you battery voltage drops. ?About 5 car batteries in parallel might do it, maybe. ?Alternatively, some kind of DC to DC uninteruptable power supply would be in order. ?I can't imagine any scenario where not wanting to turn off the radio would justify the expense, at least for me.
So, ?why not turn off the radio for 5 seconds while you start the car?
Best Regards, Dennis, N8ERF
|
Re: [IC-7000] Radio Restarts on Engine Startup
Keith,
The radio goes off because your battery voltage drops below about 11 volts or so, when your starter draws a ton of current from the battery. ?Since the starter is an inductive load, the possibility exists that you could generate some serious voltage spikes. ?Most of the time, they don't cause a problem, but they could. ?It is best practice to turn off the radio before starting the engine.
If you don't want to turn off the radio, then you are going to have to have a way of maintaining a reasonably constant voltage while you battery voltage drops. ?About 5 car batteries in parallel might do it, maybe. ?Alternatively, some kind of DC to DC uninteruptable power supply would be in order. ?I can't imagine any scenario where not wanting to turn off the radio would justify the expense, at least for me.
So, ?why not turn off the radio for 5 seconds while you start the car?
Best Regards, Dennis, N8ERF
?
Kent, my point is, that I don't want the radio to go off.
Thanks, though.
...Please forgive me for any possible typos. :-)
?
Turn off the radio before you start the vehicle.?
?
When I have my radio on, running from the vehicle battery and I start the engine, the radio shuts down and restarts. How can I keep this from happening?
Thank you,
Keith - KB0CAP
|
Re: [IC-7000] Radio Restarts on Engine Startup
Kent, my point is, that I don't want the radio to go off.
Thanks, though.
...Please forgive me for any possible typos. :-)
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Show quoted text
On Jan 12, 2014, at 21:19, Kent < khufford@...> wrote:
?
Turn off the radio before you start the vehicle.?
?
When I have my radio on, running from the vehicle battery and I start the engine, the radio shuts down and restarts. How can I keep this from happening?
Thank you,
Keith - KB0CAP
|
Re: [IC-7000] Radio Restarts on Engine Startup
Turn off the radio before you start the vehicle.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 12, 2014, at 21:17, " kdbrady1963@..." < kdbrady1963@...> wrote:
?
When I have my radio on, running from the vehicle battery and I start the engine, the radio shuts down and restarts. How can I keep this from happening?
Thank you,
Keith - KB0CAP
|
Radio Restarts on Engine Startup
When I have my radio on, running from the vehicle battery and I start the engine, the radio shuts down and restarts. How can I keep this from happening?
Thank you,
Keith - KB0CAP
|
Re: [IC-7000] Shutting off when keying up
I agree with Perry, but clean the fuse's blade contacts also. ?That will last a few months usually. ?Icom's fuse holders are a disgrace. ?They don't dig through the oxide coating on the fuse blade. ?Heat and humidity gradually result in an oxide layer on the blade, which can't really be cleaned off, even with Deoxit cleaner.
For a permanent fix either replace the fuse holders with 30 amp rated automotive style fuse holders (with #10 AWG pigtails) or if you always use a RigRunner for DC power distribution, eliminate the fuse holders.
To make sure your radio is getting adequate voltage on the circuit board under load, connect a meter across pins 3 and 4 of the TUNER port on the rear panel (the two pins closest to the rear mic connector). ?Transmit at 100% TX PO on HF (into a dummy load preferably, using CW or FM or RTTY mode). ?Verify the voltage is at least 13.0 VDC, assuming a 13.8 VDC at the power supply. ?You should have less than a 500 mv. drop between the power supply and the TUNER port.
Most radios will shutdown due to the Reset circuit's voltage threshold around 10.8 VDC, if I remember correctly. ?
Steve, W3AHL ---In ic7000@..., <k4pwo@...> wrote: Clean the fuse holder contacts.? They have corroded and have a large voltage drop when you xmit.? The voltage drop causes the rig to shut down. ? 73 de Perry ¨C K4PWO ?
From: ic7000@... [mailto:ic7000@...] On Behalf Of scottmanuel179@...
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:01 PM
To: ic7000@...
Subject: [IC-7000] Shutting off when keying up ?
I just turned on my 7000 for the first time in a couple of months and on 2 meter it is receiving, but when i key up to transmit it shuts off. I do not currently have a HF antenna up. Anyone have any ideas or experience with this?
|
Re: [IC-7000] RE: Powering up the 7000
Right. 250 watt amps were banned a few years ago due to CB? use (reason I said 10-4). An amp of that wattage would only take about 5 watts of drive, just what a CB puts out. A number of years ago (1976 or so) the FCC in its infinite wisdom banned any amp that (if I can remember correctly) had more than 10 dB gain, or required less than 50 watts drive. May have banned under 500 watts too, I don't remember. This was to stop Charlie Brown from using high power on Channel 6, and punished the law abiding (Hams) and did not a thing to the CB'ers, who could get amps from jackleg and jury rig builders and the only ones to suffer were the Hams.
Check out for the Eagle One. I have one, and with a tuner that will tune the power level of your amp, it will run full legal (1500 watts out). Being a vertical, it has a good dx radiation pattern, nice and low down, and you can roll it up and put it away when you are done.
I would respectfully suggest you work with some grounding, lay out a few radials (when operating), and find out how it operates. From looking, it does not have good "ears". I have yet to try the Eagle (have one, but have yet to use it), but got an Opek mobile HVT-600B and put it on my SUV, and was pleasantly surprised. It only takes 200 watts, though, but I have operated for 35 years, and most of them with only 100, and have worked all of the US, and probably nearly 100 countries (cards lost in a move). You will be surprised what you can do with 100W!
73 de KC4BO
On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 11:42 AM, <esmorrison1@...> wrote:
?
Thanks for the helpful information Alex.? My current vertical antenna is a CHA250BX and is rated for a max of 250 watts (selected this one due to neighborhood covenants).??Appears I should look for a different antenna that will accept the higher watts for a larger amp.
|
Re: [IC-7000] Shutting off when keying up
Clean the fuse holder contacts.? They have corroded and have a large voltage drop when you xmit.? The voltage drop causes the rig to shut down. ? 73 de Perry ¨C K4PWO ?
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From: ic7000@... [mailto:ic7000@...] On Behalf Of scottmanuel179@...
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:01 PM
To: ic7000@...
Subject: [IC-7000] Shutting off when keying up?
I just turned on my 7000 for the first time in a couple of months and on 2 meter it is receiving, but when i key up to transmit it shuts off. I do not currently have a HF antenna up. Anyone have any ideas or experience with this?
|
Re: [IC-7000] Shutting off when keying up
Have you checked the power supply unit to make sure it can put out the needed amperage for the 7000 of trying sheeting the power to 5 % and key up see what happens
73 de GM0OBX billy
|
From:
scottmanuel179@... ;
To:
;
Subject:
[IC-7000] Shutting off when keying up
Sent:
Sun, Jan 12, 2014 8:01:05 PM
?
I just turned on my 7000 for the first time in a couple of months and on 2 meter it is receiving, but when i key up to transmit it shuts off. I do not currently have a HF antenna up. Anyone have any ideas or experience with this?
|
|
Re: [IC-7000] Safe RTTY Output
Thanks for all the advice. I usually run a contest S&P anyway so the rig would get some RX time until I find another station.
On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 10:37 AM, Mark Perrin <n7mq@...> wrote:
?
Anecdotal, I admit, but I have used my IC 7K multiply times in NAQP RTTY
contests, mostly running with occasional S&P, at 100 watts out and no
problems.
Mark N7MQ
On 1/12/2014 10:32 AM, KE1B wrote:
>> To: ic7000@...
>> From: mark@...
>> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 12:24:51 -0800
>> Subject: [IC-7000] Safe RTTY Output??
>>
>>
>> I'm planning on playing around with NAQP RTTY contest next month. I know the general rule of thumb for 100% duty cycle modes is to reduce output 50%. Is this a safe output for the 7K? Should it by less/more?
>>
> Contrary to previous posters, it is perfectly safe to run the IC-7000 at 100W output on RTTY. As I have posted numerous times, there is almost no difference in the power dissipated *in the radio* regardless of the output power setting.
>
> See below:
>
> Why? Because, as noted by Bob Wolbert K6XX (a long-time radio design engineer, currently with Elecraft):
>
>> Because solid state rigs are fixed-tuned for 100W of output into 50 ohms. That operating point is where the efficiency is maximum. At lower power outputs, efficiency drops. This results in NEARLY the same heating (waste heat into the heat sink) with 20W of output as you see with 100W of output. This heating is what causes the problems.
>>
>> Thus, I claim that a transmitter that can safely output 20 W for 2 minutes continuously can output 100w for almost as long.
>>
>> Please don't take my word for this. Measure for yourself! Multiply the voltage by the collector current, then subtract the usable power output at both full power and something significantly less. The result is surprisingly similar.
>>
> I went ahead and performed this test. Rather than open up a rig and measure collector currents, I made the (much easier) measurement of DC current drawn from the power supply under various conditions. (Most of that will be collector current when transmitting, but in any case I can normalize out the receiver current and drivers as shown below.) The rig used for the test was an Icom IC-7600, but the results would be nearly identical for any modern radio, including the IC-7000. The test was performed by transmitting key-down carrier on 80m into a dummy load.
>
> Without transmitting at all, the 7600 draws about 3A @ 14V, and therefore dissipates about 42W of power. That's the consumption of everything except the transmit drivers and finals.
>
> Transmitting at minimum power (about 2W), the rig draws 7.8A, (109W); take away the 2W of power going into the load and it is dissipating 107W. (That tells you the power dissipated by the transmit drivers and the finals at minimum drive.)
>
> Transmitting at 20W output, the current is 11.9A (166.6W); take away the 20W that goes into the load, and that's 146.6W dissipation. Transmitting at 100W output, the current is 19A (266W); take away the 100W and that's 166W dissipation.
>
> So the difference between 20W and 100W output is an extra 19.4W of heat, about a 13% increase. Nowhere near the 5:1 ratio one would expect from the power ratios. There would be an even smaller difference between running at 100W vs 50/60/80 W. The radio must dissipate (approximately) the same amount of heat regardless of the output power level.
>
> Strange, but true. I run my IC-7000 at 100W RTTY during my various DXpeditions, where I am running continuous QSOs, exactly as would be the case for a contest station. Never a problem.
>
> Rich KE1B
>
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG -
> Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6996 - Release Date: 01/12/14
>
|
Shutting off when keying up
I just turned on my 7000 for the first time in a couple of months and on 2 meter it is receiving, but when i key up to transmit it shuts off. I do not currently have a HF antenna up. Anyone have any ideas or experience with this?
|
Re: [IC-7000] Safe RTTY Output
I¡¯ll
second that, I have run mine in at least 2 CQWW RTTY and at least 2 ARRL RTTY at
VP9, full power, all weekend, no trouble (knock on this wooden head)......no
problems with temp either....does it get warm? yes, so does my
FT-2000.....
1/12/2014
1:32:21 PM, KE1B (ke1b@...) wrote:
> > To:
ic7000@...
> > From: mark@...
> > Date:
Fri, 10 Jan 2014 12:24:51 -0800
> > Subject: [IC-7000] Safe RTTY
Output??
> >
> >
> >
> I'm planning on playing
around with NAQP RTTY contest next month. I know the general rule of thumb for
100% duty cycle modes is to reduce output 50%. Is this a safe output for the 7K?
Should it by less/more?
> >
>
> Contrary to previous
posters, it is perfectly safe to run the IC-7000 at 100W output on RTTY. As I
have posted numerous times, there is almost no difference in the power
dissipated *in the radio* regardless of the output power setting.
>
> See below:
>
> Why? Because, as noted by Bob Wolbert K6XX
(a long-time radio design engineer, currently with Elecraft):
>
>
> Because solid state rigs are fixed-tuned for 100W of output into 50 ohms.
That operating point is where the efficiency is maximum. At lower power outputs,
efficiency drops. This results in NEARLY the same heating (waste heat into the
heat sink) with 20W of output as you see with 100W of output. This heating is
what causes the problems.
> >
> > Thus, I claim that a
transmitter that can safely output 20 W for 2 minutes continuously can output
100w for almost as long.
> >
> > Please don't
> take my
word for this. Measure for yourse
|
Re: [IC-7000] Safe RTTY Output
Anecdotal, I admit, but I have used my IC 7K multiply times in NAQP RTTY contests, mostly running with occasional S&P, at 100 watts out and no problems.
Mark N7MQ
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 1/12/2014 10:32 AM, KE1B wrote: To: ic7000@...
From: mark@...
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 12:24:51 -0800
Subject: [IC-7000] Safe RTTY Output??
I'm planning on playing around with NAQP RTTY contest next month. I know the general rule of thumb for 100% duty cycle modes is to reduce output 50%. Is this a safe output for the 7K? Should it by less/more?
Contrary to previous posters, it is perfectly safe to run the IC-7000 at 100W output on RTTY. As I have posted numerous times, there is almost no difference in the power dissipated *in the radio* regardless of the output power setting.
See below:
Why? Because, as noted by Bob Wolbert K6XX (a long-time radio design engineer, currently with Elecraft):
Because solid state rigs are fixed-tuned for 100W of output into 50 ohms. That operating point is where the efficiency is maximum. At lower power outputs, efficiency drops. This results in NEARLY the same heating (waste heat into the heat sink) with 20W of output as you see with 100W of output. This heating is what causes the problems.
Thus, I claim that a transmitter that can safely output 20 W for 2 minutes continuously can output 100w for almost as long.
Please don't take my word for this. Measure for yourself! Multiply the voltage by the collector current, then subtract the usable power output at both full power and something significantly less. The result is surprisingly similar.
I went ahead and performed this test. Rather than open up a rig and measure collector currents, I made the (much easier) measurement of DC current drawn from the power supply under various conditions. (Most of that will be collector current when transmitting, but in any case I can normalize out the receiver current and drivers as shown below.) The rig used for the test was an Icom IC-7600, but the results would be nearly identical for any modern radio, including the IC-7000. The test was performed by transmitting key-down carrier on 80m into a dummy load.
Without transmitting at all, the 7600 draws about 3A @ 14V, and therefore dissipates about 42W of power. That's the consumption of everything except the transmit drivers and finals.
Transmitting at minimum power (about 2W), the rig draws 7.8A, (109W); take away the 2W of power going into the load and it is dissipating 107W. (That tells you the power dissipated by the transmit drivers and the finals at minimum drive.)
Transmitting at 20W output, the current is 11.9A (166.6W); take away the 20W that goes into the load, and that's 146.6W dissipation. Transmitting at 100W output, the current is 19A (266W); take away the 100W and that's 166W dissipation.
So the difference between 20W and 100W output is an extra 19.4W of heat, about a 13% increase. Nowhere near the 5:1 ratio one would expect from the power ratios. There would be an even smaller difference between running at 100W vs 50/60/80 W. The radio must dissipate (approximately) the same amount of heat regardless of the output power level.
Strange, but true. I run my IC-7000 at 100W RTTY during my various DXpeditions, where I am running continuous QSOs, exactly as would be the case for a contest station. Never a problem.
Rich KE1B
-----
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6996 - Release Date: 01/12/14
|
Steve W3AHL