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Anyone.....what's inside your 706.....and possibly
the 7000 that keeps the parts from rattling around????

My 706 brick is surrounded by concrete :)

It was the commercial version .. now to figure out which computer it is on .. pretty nice, though. In the midst of changin' from 1.5 MB DSL to 5 MB Cable ... w/ wireless, all that... so slo on uptake .. Kinda like finding OtorMola data.. HIHI May all your chicks be blessed... 73, Mark .. AA6DX
aa6dx@...
aa6dx@...

--- In ic7000@..., MKM <starlight04@g...> wrote:

...

...Icom should just release the specs now and deliver later.

Let's see. Will that increase or decrease tha amount of drool?

Slurp!

73, Steve, K9DCI

Or was it a typo...or a (friendly) spoof?!

I want a cup holder...and APRS...and PSK and all them modes...

73, Steve, K9DCI

P.S. It *had* to be a pregnant chicken that came first.

--- In ic7000@..., MKM <mab2000@v...> wrote:

This is a nice way of saying:

1) This is Icom World technical support, not new product release

page

or division!

The Japan Icom website only has this "Technical Support" email
address available, Nothing else. So I thought it was at least worth
a try, But as I said will keep uplifting stones to find more info.

John.

On Feb 25, 2005, at 4:22 AM, bty806030 wrote:

From: "world_support" <world_support@i...>
Cc: "IA Amatuer" <Amateur@i...>
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 12:00 AM
Subject: Re: NEW IC706IIG REPLACEMENT


> Dear Sir,
>
> Thank you for your inquiry on Icom products.
>
> Concerning the product information, it is matter of regret that
> we do not have any new product information here
> in the World Support Center since this is a contact window
> for technical support for current models.

From: "Ralf Reiterer" <ralfreit@...>
To: <ic7000@...>
Sent: 2005 March, 05, Saturday 17:21
Subject: [ic7000] Wishes for remote control (was Do our comments affect the
design of the IC7000 ?)

Reports back to the radio via Ethernet can and should be
unpolled. Ethernet handles collision details nicely. That
gets rid of many of the uglies of the CI-V interface;. I'd
add to your 1A memory reports request the implicit request
that they be "complete". Any memory should memorise the
entire control state of the radio at the time and restore it
on call back. That complete status should be part of the
remote control memory status report. (And a poll to request
"radio status" should exist if the "push" mode from radio to
remote controller is not desired.)

The radio should support both, the push and pull mode. By default the
push mode should be deactivated since not every client might desire (or
even be capable to handle) it.

Push is not needed for Ethernet control and arguably adds noise. It
does require a "UDP" broadcast mode of operation to be meaningful. I
had envisioned "TCP" point to point mode. To keep the push mode from
spraying where it does not belong the network setup in the transceiver
would be more complex. Either the user would need to know the proper
netmask to apply or the transceiver would have to properly implement
zero configuration DHCP as well as manual settings. (I HIGHLY vote for
the latter, too. It makes life easier.)

I'll up the ante on this and request that the changes which are
reported be user programmable via CI-V. Only tales one bit per
parameter to report.

I completely agree on that.

With Ethernet this is utterly spurious. Short messages are very
inefficient using the Ethernet bandwidth. The minimum Ethernet packet
size is some 64 bytes. That is a LOT of data compared to what the
usual ICOM transceiver gives you access to. Most control and polling
messages would be smaller than the minimum packet size and would be
padded out to length. (This minimum is part of the Ethernet
collision detection system.)

Regarding collisions, ethernet is of course a far better choice as
issues are handled at operating system level and therefore will remove
complexity from the IC-7000 device driver.

However the IC-7800 only uses ethernet for updating its firmware, as I
have read. So we can only hope that Icom sees the signs of time and
opens the ethernet port for remote control and bandscope samples too. We
will see what happens. ;-)

That is to wish for.

If the C&R, Control and Reporting, is via CI-V that may be
worthwhile. If the C&R is via Ethernet that's spurious. (CI-V
should still exist and offer the ability to send control data
to the likes of a PW-1, of course. But for remote control it
should be considered a dead issue in exchange for an Ethernet
interface that handles the IF samples and the bandscope data
as well as the C&R data. Then we can build magic with radios.

I do not completely agree on that as the CI-V system will also be
necessary if you want to connect the IC-7000 to another Icom radio, e.g.
to do CI-V transceive. Otherwise you will always need a software or
microcontroller that interfaces CI-V with ethernet. But I don't think
it's a big issue to keep the CI-V jack and add an ethernet jack too. Of
course sending bandscope samples will make most sense for ethernet only
as you don't have to take care about the low bandwidth the CI-V bus has.
However AOR managed to do that for the AR-8200. You can read the
bandscope samples in a packed format via the serial port. But I have not
tested how performant this solution is. So ethernet is definitely the
better choice for such things.

That is within the "likes of a PW-1" consideration I mentioned. It's
"legacy support", which should not be abandoned. But I think the future
lies in Ethernet cable, even if its a simple twist cable. And in that
future my comment about "PUSH" being spurious may be wrong. Although
giving a radio a name and allowing (multiple perhaps) TCP connections
to it is a good idea. Then push is not so potentially hazardous to
the network. Broadcast UDP leaking out to the Internet as a whole
is "impolite." Of course a good firewall would stop it. But why rely
on what might not be there.

{^_-} W6MKU, also a bit of a network tweaker type. 60 years is a
LONG TIME to pick up a lot of knowledge if learning is your
"thing".

Reports back to the radio via Ethernet can and should be
unpolled. Ethernet handles collision details nicely. That
gets rid of many of the uglies of the CI-V interface;. I'd
add to your 1A memory reports request the implicit request
that they be "complete". Any memory should memorise the
entire control state of the radio at the time and restore it
on call back. That complete status should be part of the
remote control memory status report. (And a poll to request
"radio status" should exist if the "push" mode from radio to
remote controller is not desired.)

The radio should support both, the push and pull mode. By default the
push mode should be deactivated since not every client might desire (or
even be capable to handle) it.

I'll up the ante on this and request that the changes which are
reported be user programmable via CI-V. Only tales one bit per
parameter to report.

I completely agree on that.

Regarding collisions, ethernet is of course a far better choice as
issues are handled at operating system level and therefore will remove
complexity from the IC-7000 device driver.

However the IC-7800 only uses ethernet for updating its firmware, as I
have read. So we can only hope that Icom sees the signs of time and
opens the ethernet port for remote control and bandscope samples too. We
will see what happens. ;-)

...IC-7000 and the computer...
* implement a sophisticated CI-V command set that allows (almost)

all functions to be controlled from the computer.

No, all! and not just conrolled, but readable as well.

Why not allow all functions to be controlled? That would open nice
opportunities.
Of course they should be readable as well. But that's already the case
for almost all functions today.

If the C&R, Control and Reporting, is via CI-V that may be
worthwhile. If the C&R is via Ethernet that's spurious. (CI-V
should still exist and offer the ability to send control data
to the likes of a PW-1, of course. But for remote control it
should be considered a dead issue in exchange for an Ethernet
interface that handles the IF samples and the bandscope data
as well as the C&R data. Then we can build magic with radios.

I do not completely agree on that as the CI-V system will also be
necessary if you want to connect the IC-7000 to another Icom radio, e.g.
to do CI-V transceive. Otherwise you will always need a software or
microcontroller that interfaces CI-V with ethernet. But I don't think
it's a big issue to keep the CI-V jack and add an ethernet jack too. Of
course sending bandscope samples will make most sense for ethernet only
as you don't have to take care about the low bandwidth the CI-V bus has.
However AOR managed to do that for the AR-8200. You can read the
bandscope samples in a packed format via the serial port. But I have not
tested how performant this solution is. So ethernet is definitely the
better choice for such things.

Regards
Ralf

Hi Tom,

Oh, no problem, guys - MIL-STD 810 compliance of Icom products is very
relevant to the group (and also most interesting!)

Cheers for now, 73,
Adam VA7OJ/AB4OJ

Hi Group,

Thanks for the comments on how Icom is meeting
Mil Spec 810 on shock and vibration.

The IC-7000 does not require analog filters so it is
mechanically/electrically more robust in theory.

However, properly mounted PCBs do not vibrate as much
with SMT as they do with the heavier leaded components.

I do not own a 706, but I would venture to guess the 7000
will meet Mil 810 for shock and vibration as well.

The thread is now closed(See Adam, we can be good sometimes).

Tom
KE6YNH, 73
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From: "Tom" <tgleeman@...>

That is a good impression, Mike. I used to watch
the guys at the surplus house get the surface mounted
parts off boards by flexing the board. They didn't
even need to get their soldering irons warm.

However, properly mounted PCBs do not vibrate as much with SMT as they
do with the heavier leaded components. I believe it's a net win if the
PCB is made stiff enough. The chief win is getting resonances out of
the range you get within a given vehicle.

{^_^}

Great story.
Thanks.

Ah yes, that is likely true about the missing analog filters.

Now the time was in the very early 70s. The setting was a small company
in Arcadia that was building a Sonobouy receiver for the S3A aircraft.
This receiver had 31 individual receivers through the low level audio
output, a 31 by 16 multiplexer, and a fancy antenna multicoupler with
a preamp from science fiction. (130MHz or so frequency Very high IMD
intercept point and a noise figure so low that measuring it required
liquid nitrogen.)

We were testing unit 1 for shock and vibration. The unit was firmly
mounted to the vibration table. It was powered up. And as I heard it
some one of the table's jockeys pulled a wire. The table went WHAM
against its stops. The poor receiver suffered. About 1/3 of the
crystal filters died. Some were degraded. And one degraded and died
as I was retesting it after the event. It seems those nice little
wires to the plated areas on the crystals in the crystal filters do
not like heavy shock and vibration. They tend to break loose. So any
receiver that can minimize the number of crystal filters can survive
more shock and vibration. This is also a good reason to have multiple
first conversion filters that can be selected arbitrarily by the user
overriding any automated selection.

Not that the 7800 gets much shock and vibration in most uses but it
should have this override capability as a redundancy feature that
leaves the radio mostly useable while replacements are on order. For
military or Homeland Security purposes such a design should be
considered a requirement.

{^_^} 62 new filters later and that radio was back in business,
in theory anyway. Now, I've forgotten how many were replaced.
But it was not "62". <sigh>
W6MKU

Also, the IC-7000 does not require analog filters so it is mechanically / electrically more robust in theory.

I heard last night from the 3840 group that the rig will have digital in / out for audio...hope it is true.

I can't wait, Icom should just release the specs now and deliver later.

From: "Steve" <steve.noskowicz@...>

"Ralf Reiterer" <ralfreit@g...>

Ralf, OE5ROP wrote:
...IC-7000 and the computer...
* implement a sophisticated CI-V command set that allows (almost)

all functions to be controlled from the computer.

No, all! and not just conrolled, but readable as well.

It should be, "All paramaters can be remotely controlled AND remotely
read." Anything else will annoy someone, say a perfectionist like me.
{^_-}

* report ALL changes made directly on the radio back to the

computer -
I'll up the ante on this and request that the changes which are
reported be user programmable via CI-V. Only tales one bit per
parameter to report.

If the C&R, Control and Reporting, is via CI-V that may be worthwhile.
If the C&R is via Ethernet that's spurious. (CI-V should still exist
and offer the ability to send control data to the likes of a PW-1, of
course. But for remote control it should be considered a dead issue
in exchange for an Ethernet interface that handles the IF samples and
the bandscope data as well as the C&R data. Then we can build magic
with radios.

{^_-} Wobbly 6 Mangy Kilowatts Unleashed.

Hi Mike(W8MM) and the Group,

Mike wrote:

I am under the impression that surface
mounted components have less mass, shorter
cantilever length, and therefore much, much
higher mechanical resonant frequencies than
leaded parts.

That is a good impression, Mike. I used to watch
the guys at the surplus house get the surface mounted
parts off boards by flexing the board. They didn't
even need to get their soldering irons warm.

I'm just wondering how Icom produces a reliable product
they call "portable" and "mobile" or does that just mean
it can be carried from room to room?

Anyone.....what's inside your 706.....and possibly
the 7000 that keeps the parts from rattling around????

Tom
KE6YNH, 73




----------

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--- In ic7000@...,
"Ralf Reiterer" <ralfreit@g...>

Ralf, OE5ROP wrote:
...IC-7000 and the computer...
* implement a sophisticated CI-V command set that allows (almost)

all functions to be controlled from the computer.

No, all! and not just conrolled, but readable as well.

* allow bandscope samples to be read from the computer.

And S-meter.

* report ALL changes made directly on the radio back to the

computer -
I'll up the ante on this and request that the changes which are
reported be user programmable via CI-V. Only tales one bit per
parameter to report.


73, Steve, K9DCI

Hi Tom,

I am under the impression that surface mounted components have less
mass, shorter cantilever length, and therefore much, much higher
mechanical resonant frequencies than leaded parts.

Am I missing something?

Cheers,

Mike - W8MM

So did the rest of us, as a matter of fact.

{^_-}

Hi IC7000 Fans,

Does anyone out there know how Icom achieves Mil 810 C, D, E for
shock and vibration when using surface mounted components?

Just curious.

Tom
KE6YNH, 73
----------

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Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.0 - Release Date: 3/2/2005

Hi Mike,

No problem - I just felt that the thread had reached a good cut-off point.

Cheers for now, 73,
Adam VA7OJ/AB4OJ