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--- In ibmpensionissues@..., "teamb562" <teamb562@...> wrote:

You are hoping PPACA gets repealed? You do realize companies are under NO
obligation to provide healthcare to anyone, with or without PPACA. PPACA may be
your only choice someday and you hope it gets repealed? Really? And replace it
with what, Massachusetts Romneycare? Did you notice ibm's 3Q revenue sucked.
Gee, any speculation as to what that may/could mean for pensions, healthcare?


--- In ibmpensionissues@..., "zimowski@..." <zimowski@...> wrote:

As a retiree, I am lucky enough to have IBM health care coverage and, although

our benefits seem to shrink a bit more every year, having IBM coverage is much
better than having no coverage. Given Obamacare, IBM may very well decide to
stop offering coverage to retirees. I've studied Obamacare and have found that
it offers me few benefits, so I'm hoping that it will be repealed in 2013,
shortly after Obama starts spending more time with his family.

--- In ibmpensionissues@..., flatiron_blues <no_reply@> wrote:

Here is an interesting subject that was the source of some good discussion

on the ibmpension board that was prematurely cut off by a moderator. I am
posting the entire thread here and inviting responses to any or all of the
messages.

#73901 From: chz_whiz
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:37 pm

Corporate America is finally ready to deal with a monkey on its back:

massive pension obligations.

;
&#92;

sion-risk-with-lump-sum-offers/

or



Important excerpt:

"We hope people think really carefully about the decision," said Nancy Hwa,

a spokeswoman for Pension Rights Center, a consumer organization in Washington,

D.C. "It's very easy to be tempted by this large sum of money initially, and

it's easy to spend it on something other than retirement."

#73902 From: willbefree25
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:49 pm

"It's very easy to be tempted by this large sum of money initially, and

it's easy to spend it on something other than retirement."

Duh. That's correct. Remember what a great man once said, and let it be a

warning to everyone naive enough to think about choosing the lump sum, since IBM
'wants' you to choose the lump sum:

#73903 From: samuel bernadino <w2uhasam@>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:33 pm

has any one been offered a lump sum or is this all conjecture?
#73905 From: justa_bean_counter

Date: Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:39 pm

No vested terminated participants at IBM have been offered a lump sum.

However, employees of corporations, other than IBM, stay focused to this group,
including some from companies who HAVE offered the de-risking pension buy-out.

Kathi

#73906 From: "donwshuper50" <donwshuper50@>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:56 pm

KATHI . . . No vested terminated participants at IBM have been offered a

lump sum. . .

maybe that should read . . . offered a lump sum YET !! ??

Doc don

#73907 From: willbefree25
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:47 am

No VTPs at IBM have been offered a lump sum, YET, but since the original

poster asked:

"has any one been offered a lump sum"

emphasis on 'any one', it WAS shoved down the throats of the No Choicers in

1999 and an attempt was made (thank you Janet et al who fought it and stared
down the evil Socks Bouchard) to shove it down the throats of the Second
Choicers in 1999. No attempt was made (what a surprise!) to shove it down the
throats of those grandfathered aka the IGMs to the annuity pension (see a
warning there?)in 1999.

I'm guessing the executives and managers and CEOs (TFL, SB, BBG?) haven't

had it shoved down their throats either.

If you're still in doubt, see this very good article on why you shouldn't

think IBM has your best interests at heart when they 'oh so generously' offer
you VTPs a lump sum:

You've been warned. If you're naive, then as a very wise IGMer here said:

...Then there were the ones who were somewhat naive but as much as you

would tell them to plan for the future they said IBM will take are of them.
After the 1st massive layoff in 1993 it was apparent that the future changed and
you'd better watch your back. That was the shot heard across the bow and if
ignored then you got what you got. My compassion left and it was time to refocus
on my career and family. So goes it and I made my own decision to leave on my
terms.

Just as simple as that. Life is Great IGM<<

So come on, VTPs, don't 'get what you get' because you are too naive to know

IBM is evil. Regard:

"The amount of money at stake is too good and that's all THEY (emphasis

mine)

care about — access to that money, not American workers."

THEY being IBM.

You've been warned.

#73908 From: "Steve" <stevejm1935@>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:07 pm

No one in IBM-US has been offered a lump sum pension. However, employees of

other corporations have, and it's s REASONABLE conjecture that at least SOME
IBM employees and retirees will be. I believe an IBM executive is involved in a
relevant organization.

#73910 From: fhawontcutit
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:05 pm

- In ibmpension@..., samuel bernadino <w2uhasam@> wrote:

has any one been offered a lump sum or is this all conjecture?

From the article:

"In a survey released earlier this year by Aon Hewitt, 35 percent of about

500 large American employers expect to offer a lump sum payout."

Companies with lump-sum pension offers:



#73911 From: "Kevin W" <nowwicked@>
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:06 am

I would agree with the YET.

I don't see any reason IBM would not pursue this path.

Between the reduced liabilities and the ability to possibly convince

thousands of people to voluntarily leave the workforce, the savings potential is
too much for the company to pass up.

I'm still expected the email that says, "If you are eligible for the pension

and have not yet retired, you must retire by xyz date or we will convert your
pension to the new plan or a lump sum."

#73912 From: CHARLES LYNCH <cflynch56@>
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:53 am

Hi, I was laid off in March and will start working again tomorrow for a

company in Poughkeepsie, NY. I took a class with my transition money at Dutchess
and it worked out.

As far as the pension discussion, my wife worked for Macy's and had a

pension but we just found out it was converted to a cash balance account which
would not buy a quart of milk.....

#73913 From: "Kevin W" <nowwicked@>
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:21 pm

Cash balance offers I don't expect will be very valuable to most of us, with

the exception of folks who know they have a limited time to live and have done
the math, don't have a surviving spouse who could benefit or other relatives.

#73914 From: "Q" <nguy4444@>
Date: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:10 am

--- In ibmpension@..., "Kevin W" <nowwicked@> wrote:

I'm still expected the email that says, "If you are eligible for the

pension and have not yet retired, you must retire by xyz date or we will convert
your pension to the new plan or a lump sum."

The above statement I fully agree with. I was at an IBM conference recently

and ended up in conversation with about a dozen other IBMers, all (including me)
on the old plan and eligible to retire. Two things we all agreed on. That the
above statement will happen, and that sometime either in 2014 or 2015 IBM will
move employees and retirees as much as possible to the health exchanges.

My guess is that the majority of IBM employees still on the old plan expect

these to happen... and our focus now is how prepare as best as possible for when
those items occur.

#73917 From: "teamb562" <teamb562@>
Date: Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:13 am

Was there any speculation whether we will be able to use FHA funds to pay

for the health care exchanges?

#73921 From: "Q" <nguy4444@>
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:32 pm

We felt that, if we were allowed to use FHA funds for the exchanges, there

would be some kind of "catch" to it. It which case the best one could hope for
is to use the FHA for the approved "private" insurance (which will last even
shorter than it does now) before moving to the exchange.

Again, no special insight or knowledge - just a group of us discussing and

sharing ideas and how to best prepare, based on future likelihoods.

#73922 From: justa_bean_counter
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:28 pm

Please, no more speculative posting on health care options of the future.

Kathi