Generally speaking, bullshit. Here in the NYC greater metropolitan area we have had no trouble at all having our conventional employer provided, employee paid health insurance accepted by the vast majority of doctors. Our costs have gone way up. Our coverage for dental has gone way down. The only thing we have prepaid in the last 20 years has been our copay. I have had three eye operations, one at NY Eye in Manhattan. No problems at all.
Just more bullshit. Taking the uncommon and calling it universal.
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--- In ibmpensionissues@..., KenSP@... wrote:
Dream onToday in the New York area doctors are not accepting insurances of any kind.? They are not going out of business.? Their approach is that they charge you their fee and then give to you whatever they receive from the insurance companies.? This is not permitted by Medicare/Medicaid and reimbursement is lower than that which is given by insurance companiesThese doctors are doing fine because someone always has the cash and willing to pay.? For IBM, I live in Europe for five years.? In England, and France to get an appointment with any doctor all you had to tell him you are paying cash.? In the UK, there is? no waiting time. However, UK medical system denies patients cancer drugs because of cost.? Deaths from cancer a higher than that of the US. Check the facts. In France, the American Hospital which accepts no insurance either from the French government or any one else.? They will fill out all the forms and give you whatever they collect by crediting the credit card you use.? Under your thinking they would go out of business if they did not accept payment from the single payer and French insurance companies who pay the supplement.? They are full and it is primary French citizens who want to be treated with best up to dated equipment and drugs.For IBM I lived under both systems for a period of five years.? The US media will not highlight this, neither will those who support European social heath care.? Ask yourself, why did the Prime Minister of Canada come to US - Florida for treatment? rather than being treated in Canada..? Why did the Canadian government stop insurance companies from selling a policy that pay for a Canadians?airfare trip and medical treatment in the US.Have you visited hospitals in countries like France and asked yourself would you like to be treated there?? I think not - reality versus dream land.I am not under ACA?but Medicare which is going broke.? Do you think this new plan will not have the same financial issues.RegardsIBMer?who has lived under European Social Medicine.----- Original Message -----From: dan?finn?Date: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 10:02 pmSubject: Re: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Union Fears Destructive Consequences From ObamacareTo: ibmpensionissues@...> But if everyone were covered under a single payer, then > practices go out of business if they refuse to accept payment > from single payers, correct? Or, the prices would be so low that > they cannot continue to pay for their liabilities such as homes, > cars and expenses. This is the part where very good doctors with > lower financial expectations from places like the Philippines > and India set up shop in the usa...ACA?(regrettably not single > payer) will probably necessitate this anyway due to high demand. > They would be here now except for the arbitrarily protective > visa limitations that could be liberalized, probably by > executive order.> > KenSP@... wrote:> > >ColleaguesI?think you are dreaming if you think that ACA?or a > single payer will be the answer to the healthcare. The first > thing is Medicare and Medicaid is a single payer for many of us > who have retired.? It is reasonably price. The issue is not the > cost, but finding a doctor who accepts Medicare / Medicaid > Patients. The law cannot force a doctor to work at a specified > price. Otherwise it is slavery. So he can legally refuse to > accept patients as long as he does not discriminate. A doctor > determines what he is willing to accept in payment for his > service. There are not enough doctors to treat everyone.Today, a > doctor now asks "Do you have insurance and with whom?" before he > is willing to even accept you as a patient. Some will advise you > upfront that they expect payment when services are render and > they post such a sign in their office. There are many who will > pay upfront to be treated by the doctor of their choice and who > has an excellent reputation.Many doctors, in the New York City > and Westchester County are not accepting Medicare / Medicaid > patients.? The reason is that the government reimbursement is to > low. If a doctor accepts a Medicare patient, he must also take > Medicaid patients.? A medicaid patient pays nothing, not even > the 20% a Medicare patient pays. A doctor receives about 65% of > the reimbursement he gets for treating Medicare patients - so he > refuses to treat either. The reimbursement the doctor receives > from the government does not cover his costs especially his > malpractice insurance so why accept Medicare or Medicaid > patients.In Westchester, a nearby hospital closed because a > majority of their patients where under Medicaid and they went > bankrupt. There also have been some hospital closing in New York > City and the wait in emergency room has increase in the other > hospitals.Even if you have private or company insurance, like my > daughter who has a healthcare insurance policy from her company > listed on the New York Stock Exchange, was told by her doctor, > he does not accept any insurance.? She had to pay his fees with > a credit card and when the doctor received payment from the > insurance company (three months later), he gave her the amount > he received. Her out of pocket costs was 40% of the fee.? This > is not the case with the Hospital but with the doctors.As you > can see, it does not matter what insurance you have, if no > doctor, other than a hospital, is willing to accept it, what > good is insurance. So dream on about ACA and a single payer. You > may have the reasonably priced insurance you want but it won't > by you medical services if a doctor does not accept it.From a > retiree who is under Medicare----- Original Message -----From: > Danny Baptista Date: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 12:40 pmSubject: Re: > [ibmpensionissues] Re: Union Fears Destructive Consequences From > ObamacareTo: ibmpensionissues@...> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >?> >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rick, thank you. I've also been fed up> > with the misinformed reactionary rhetoric from this site > that I> > find in my inbox often these days. An FYI to you all: I'm > looking> forward to increased access to health care that is > not quite as> > expensive and not quite as much a rip-off, and I welcome > the ACA> > as an incremental and progressive step towards single payer.> > > > > > ?> > > > > > Sorry. Not me.> > > > However, you did prove my point.> > > > --- In ibmpensionissues@...,> > buckwildbeemer wrote:> > >> > > OK, now tell us what ya did at IBM!> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In ibmpensionissues@...,> > "Rick b Cool" wrote:> > > >> > > > Perhaps this thread can get back on topic> > without the radical reactionary rhetoric firmly > grounded> in delusions.> > > > > > > > --- In ibmpensionissues@...,> > "Rick b Cool" wrote:> > > > >> > > > > WOW.> > > > > > > > > > This forum has turned into just another> > radical reactionary shithole. Completely off > topic. Yet> > another internet place for delusions, > distortions, and> > lies.> > > > > > > > > > Fact: The full text of the ACA was> > available almost the whole time. Obviously less the> > changes currently being proposed and discussed. > > > > > > > > > > Fact: The people who do this kind of> > whining are exclusively completely self centered> > anti-social morons who don't consider all the benefits> > they receive at others expense, or the great > benefits of> > have a great society that supports all the > people, grows> > the economy, and increases the standard of > living. They> > simply dream of how good it would be if they retained> > everything they have and get and somehow didn't > have to> > pay for any of it. All the advances of society and> > technology, the vast bulk of which they had > nothing to do> > with. I am quite sure they use words like > socialist and> > communist and have no idea what either term actually> > means. They certainly have no idea what the term> > capitalist actually means now what Adam Smith was > trying> to achieve.> > > > > > > > > > All they do is whine and hope that someone> > will give them everything they desire while not > giving to> > others they feel are undeserving. All while deceiving> > themselves that they are independent individuals> > supporting themselves outside all that exists and > all that> > has gone before.> > > > > > > > > > Back to the good old days when only white> > male protestants who own landed estates have any > rights or> > benefits of the wealth society and all the people > create.> > > > > > > > > --- In ibmpensionissues@...,> > pawnedmyrolex wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Reminds me of the new Lib movie> > remake: "Dependence Day"> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In ibmpensionissues@...,> > "zimowski@" wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Those who re-elected Obama now> > need to eat his dog food.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In ibmpensionissues@...,> > spitzerisnoweiner wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > consequences-from-obamacare/?mod=WSJBlog> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Soooo glad I never joined a> > union...> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a bad> > re-distribution of wealth for sure.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
