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Very good. Thanks for the analysis. However, none of what you said has anything at all to do with ACA. Yes, some doctors refuse Medicare. Some refuse all insurance. They have done so for an extremely long time. Some demand cash payment in advance and them reimburse when insurance pays them. They have done so for a very long time.

No ACA is far, far from a perfect plan. It is something which was never wanted by those who believe in universal health care. It was a proposal that was proposed by conservative Republicans and only abandoned as a political maneuver against a President they wanted to fail at any cost to the people of the United States. The one strategy which the modern Republican leadership has carries out extremely consistently at great cost to the American people.

Also, from a purely social perspective. It clearly looks as if you said that we need to have access to good health care severely limited to more wealthy individuals because their is a shortage of doctors. People do reveal their self centered nature while entirely ignoring the fact that most doctors are educated at the expense of the people of the United States through grants, subsidies, and delayed low interest loans. No one pays the full free market capitalist price of their healthcare. Though, one must admit that in some arenas, such a patent drugs, they do pay monopolistic prices.

Healthcare in this country is a highly complex system with many interdependencies. The idiotic perspective is that some of us deserve good healthcare more than others of us.

Now as I said previously. The real issue on this forum is getting back on topic. We don't need the political bullshit of the loud mouthed Obama haters who will say anything true or false or irrelevant.

--- In ibmpensionissues@..., KenSP@ wrote:

ColleaguesI think you are dreaming if you think that ACA or a single payer will be the answer to the healthcare. The first thing is Medicare and Medicaid is a single payer for many of us who have retired.? It is reasonably price. The issue is not the cost, but finding a doctor who accepts Medicare / Medicaid Patients. The law cannot force a doctor to work at a specified price. Otherwise it is slavery. So he can legally refuse to accept patients as long as he does not discriminate. A doctor determines what he is willing to accept in payment for his service. There are not enough doctors to treat everyone.Today, a doctor now asks "Do you have insurance and with whom?" before he is willing to even accept you as a patient. Some will advise you upfront that they expect payment when services are render and they post such a sign in their office. There are many who will pay upfront to be treated by the doctor of their choice and who has an excellent reputation.Many doctors, in the New York City and Westchester County are not accepting Medicare / Medicaid patients.? The reason is that the government reimbursement is to low. If a doctor accepts a Medicare patient, he must also take Medicaid patients.? A medicaid patient pays nothing, not even the 20% a Medicare patient pays. A doctor receives about 65% of the reimbursement he gets for treating Medicare patients - so he refuses to treat either. The reimbursement the doctor receives from the government does not cover his costs especially his malpractice insurance so why accept Medicare or Medicaid patients.In Westchester, a nearby hospital closed because a majority of their patients where under Medicaid and they went bankrupt. There also have been some hospital closing in New York City and the wait in emergency room has increase in the other hospitals.Even if you have private or company insurance, like my daughter who has a healthcare insurance policy from her company listed on the New York Stock Exchange, was told by her doctor, he does not accept any insurance.? She had to pay his fees with a credit card and when the doctor received payment from the insurance company (three months later), he gave her the amount he received. Her out of pocket costs was 40% of the fee.? This is not the case with the Hospital but with the doctors.As you can see, it does not matter what insurance you have, if no doctor, other than a hospital, is willing to accept it, what good is insurance. So dream on about ACA and a single payer. You may have the reasonably priced insurance you want but it won't by you medical services if a doctor does not accept it.From a retiree who is under Medicare----- Original Message -----From: Danny Baptista Date: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 12:40 pmSubject: Re: [ibmpensionissues] Re: Union Fears Destructive Consequences From ObamacareTo: ibmpensionissues@...














?












Rick, thank you. I've also been fed up
with the misinformed reactionary rhetoric from this site that I
find in my inbox often these days. An FYI to you all: I'm looking
forward to increased access to health care that is not quite as
expensive and not quite as much a rip-off, and I welcome the ACA
as an incremental and progressive step towards single payer.


?


Sorry. Not me.

However, you did prove my point.

--- In ibmpensionissues@...,
buckwildbeemer <no_reply@> wrote:
>
> OK, now tell us what ya did at IBM!
>
>
>
> --- In ibmpensionissues@...,
"Rick b Cool" <rickboehme@> wrote:
> >
> > Perhaps this thread can get back on topic
without the radical reactionary rhetoric firmly grounded
in delusions.
> >
> > --- In ibmpensionissues@...,
"Rick b Cool" <rickboehme@> wrote:
> > >
> > > WOW.
> > >
> > > This forum has turned into just another
radical reactionary shithole. Completely off topic. Yet
another internet place for delusions, distortions, and
lies.
> > >
> > > Fact: The full text of the ACA was
available almost the whole time. Obviously less the
changes currently being proposed and discussed.
> > >
> > > Fact: The people who do this kind of
whining are exclusively completely self centered
anti-social morons who don't consider all the benefits
they receive at others expense, or the great benefits of
have a great society that supports all the people, grows
the economy, and increases the standard of living. They
simply dream of how good it would be if they retained
everything they have and get and somehow didn't have to
pay for any of it. All the advances of society and
technology, the vast bulk of which they had nothing to do
with. I am quite sure they use words like socialist and
communist and have no idea what either term actually
means. They certainly have no idea what the term
capitalist actually means now what Adam Smith was trying
to achieve.
> > >
> > > All they do is whine and hope that someone
will give them everything they desire while not giving to
others they feel are undeserving. All while deceiving
themselves that they are independent individuals
supporting themselves outside all that exists and all that
has gone before.
> > >
> > > Back to the good old days when only white
male protestants who own landed estates have any rights or
benefits of the wealth society and all the people create.
> > >
> > > --- In ibmpensionissues@...,
pawnedmyrolex <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Reminds me of the new Lib movie
remake: "Dependence Day"
> > > >
> > > > --- In ibmpensionissues@...,
"zimowski@" <zimowski@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Those who re-elected Obama now
need to eat his dog food.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In ibmpensionissues@...,
spitzerisnoweiner <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Soooo glad I never joined a
union...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is a bad
re-distribution of wealth for sure.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
























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