|
Hi, does anyone have any personal videos of designing with their own personal tips and hacks?
Recently new to this.
Thanks
?
|
There is so much out there... lots of videos on YouTube and other websites.
--
Steven Greenfield AE7HD
|
Nope.? Don't do videos.
Now questions:
1) designing what?? Digital?? Analog?? RF??
2) what level of complexity?? Do you need 1 layer, 2 layer, or 4
layer boards?
3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself? (it makes a
difference in how you design them).
4) how big are they (can make a difference in either cost/who
makes it or design/what program you use)?
5) what program do you use?
6) have you any experience with PC board design?
7) what level of hardware debug do you want to put into the
boards (test points?? test pads?? logic analyzer breakouts??
ground posts?)
8) what kind of facilities do you have to make PC boards?
9) have you done any of this before?
10) what level (roughly) in electronics design are you
comfortable with?? beginner?? what?
All of these things have a bearing on *how* you design something,
what design you come up with, how many copies you'll need before
you get one that works (know that one.....), and whether or not
you can make the board yourself.
I know this may sound complicated, but
answers to some of these help others to gauge where you are in
experience, and what you need to know (IMHO, of course).
For me: (roughly)
1) designing:? Digital,? Analog.? Have done 100 pin flatpacks.
(self built), do 144 pin flatpacks when someone else builds
them).
2) I do double sided, plated through holes, silk screen, but
that's not me making them.? Have done toner transfer, 10 mil
trace, 10 mil spacing, double sided, wire stitch top and bottom
layers, tin/lead plated boards.
3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself? (it makes a
difference in how you design them).
4) no bigger than 100 cm * 100 cm because of the board house
limitations for cheap?
5) EAGLE 7.7, hobby (6 x 4 inch) license, can't sell the
boards.?
6) by this time?? a fair amount, can always learn more
7) logic analyzer breakouts for digital, pin headers for some
signals, some test pads, ground connectors, monitor leds
8) used to make double sided boards, not plated through,
designs got too complicated for me to make
9) lots
10) not beginner in digital, some analog, power supply
Other people will have different opinions.
Harvey
On 7/12/2020 12:59 AM, davethetechman
via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi, does anyone have any personal videos of designing with their own personal tips and hacks?
Recently new to this.
Thanks
?
|
YES
I agree with Harvey slamming out the BIG list of questions......
To Davethetechman .......
It really starts with you answering the ONE question of WHAT you
want to make.
You can? HOME BREW PCBS with a very bare minimum of technical
software, expensive chemicals, and specialty equipment
OR
go can go full throttle with all sorts of professional
expenditures because your target PCB is for something with
extremely tiny SMD ships with 144 pins.
Do you want to use THROUGH HOLE PART or SMD?
If THROUGH HOLE then you can manually draw a schematic on copper
clad board with a permanent marker and 10 minutes later etch a
PCB.
If SMD then you can do the same but have to have a good eye and
steady hand.
And then
there's all sorts of CAD programmer to help you... but you may
not need CAD.
I have made more than 100 PCBs and I have not yet used ANY EAGLE
or any other CAD program.
Rob
On 07/25/2020 09:30 PM, Harvey White
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Nope.? Don't do videos.
Now questions:
1) designing what?? Digital?? Analog?? RF??
2) what level of complexity?? Do you need 1 layer, 2 layer, or
4 layer boards?
3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself? (it makes a
difference in how you design them).
4) how big are they (can make a difference in either cost/who
makes it or design/what program you use)?
5) what program do you use?
6) have you any experience with PC board design?
7) what level of hardware debug do you want to put into the
boards (test points?? test pads?? logic analyzer breakouts??
ground posts?)
8) what kind of facilities do you have to make PC boards?
9) have you done any of this before?
10) what level (roughly) in electronics design are you
comfortable with?? beginner?? what?
All of these things have a bearing on *how* you design
something, what design you come up with, how many copies you'll
need before you get one that works (know that one.....), and
whether or not you can make the board yourself.
I know this may sound complicated,
but answers to some of these help others to gauge where you are
in experience, and what you need to know (IMHO, of course).
For me: (roughly)
1) designing:? Digital,? Analog.? Have done 100 pin
flatpacks. (self built), do 144 pin flatpacks when someone
else builds them).
2) I do double sided, plated through holes, silk screen, but
that's not me making them.? Have done toner transfer, 10 mil
trace, 10 mil spacing, double sided, wire stitch top and
bottom layers, tin/lead plated boards.
3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself? (it makes
a difference in how you design them).
4) no bigger than 100 cm * 100 cm because of the board house
limitations for cheap?
5) EAGLE 7.7, hobby (6 x 4 inch) license, can't sell the
boards.?
6) by this time?? a fair amount, can always learn more
7) logic analyzer breakouts for digital, pin headers for some
signals, some test pads, ground connectors, monitor leds
8) used to make double sided boards, not plated through,
designs got too complicated for me to make
9) lots
10) not beginner in digital, some analog, power supply
Other people will have different opinions.
Harvey
On 7/12/2020 12:59 AM, davethetechman
via groups.io wrote:
Hi, does anyone have any personal videos of designing with their own personal tips and hacks?
Recently new to this.
Thanks
?
|
Rob and I do boards differently.? Some of the designs I did were
100 pin chips with 0.65 or 0.5 mm pin spacing, toner transfer.?
You'll need a very good drill/drill press, a good laminator, a
decent laser printer, and a PCB design program.? This because the
boards are complex enough to need them.? Complexity of the boards
is an important factor.? I used a mixture of SMD and through hole,
with 0805 and 1206 parts, depending.? It very very much depend on
what you want to do and how much effort you want to put into it.?
Home processes have limitations.? Some people have done plated
through holes, and I admire their dedication.? It became easier
for me to have boards made.?
That doesn't mean that making your own boards is a waste of
time.? Just, to me, that past a certain level of complexity, type
of part and so on, it makes more sense to have someone else make
the boards.? You're still designing them, then.
and I do agree, the main question is "what do you want to make?"
all the questions devolve from there.
Harvey
On 7/25/2020 10:40 PM, Rob via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
YES
I agree with Harvey slamming out the BIG list of
questions......
To Davethetechman .......
It really starts with you answering the ONE question of WHAT
you want to make.
You can? HOME BREW PCBS with a very bare minimum of technical
software, expensive chemicals, and specialty equipment
OR
go can go full throttle with all sorts of professional
expenditures because your target PCB is for something with
extremely tiny SMD ships with 144 pins.
Do you want to use THROUGH HOLE PART or SMD?
If THROUGH HOLE then you can manually draw a schematic on
copper clad board with a permanent marker and 10 minutes later
etch a PCB.
If SMD then you can do the same but have to have a good eye and
steady hand.
And then
there's all sorts of CAD programmer to help you... but you may
not need CAD.
I have made more than 100 PCBs and I have not yet used ANY
EAGLE or any other CAD program.
Rob
On 07/25/2020 09:30 PM, Harvey White
wrote:
Nope.? Don't do videos.
Now questions:
1) designing what?? Digital?? Analog?? RF??
2) what level of complexity?? Do you need 1 layer, 2 layer,
or 4 layer boards?
3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself? (it makes
a difference in how you design them).
4) how big are they (can make a difference in either cost/who
makes it or design/what program you use)?
5) what program do you use?
6) have you any experience with PC board design?
7) what level of hardware debug do you want to put into the
boards (test points?? test pads?? logic analyzer breakouts??
ground posts?)
8) what kind of facilities do you have to make PC boards?
9) have you done any of this before?
10) what level (roughly) in electronics design are you
comfortable with?? beginner?? what?
All of these things have a bearing on *how* you design
something, what design you come up with, how many copies
you'll need before you get one that works (know that
one.....), and whether or not you can make the board yourself.
I know this may sound complicated,
but answers to some of these help others to gauge where you
are in experience, and what you need to know (IMHO, of
course).
For me: (roughly)
1) designing:? Digital,? Analog.? Have done 100 pin
flatpacks. (self built), do 144 pin flatpacks when someone
else builds them).
2) I do double sided, plated through holes, silk screen,
but that's not me making them.? Have done toner transfer, 10
mil trace, 10 mil spacing, double sided, wire stitch top and
bottom layers, tin/lead plated boards.
3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself? (it
makes a difference in how you design them).
4) no bigger than 100 cm * 100 cm because of the board
house limitations for cheap?
5) EAGLE 7.7, hobby (6 x 4 inch) license, can't sell the
boards.?
6) by this time?? a fair amount, can always learn more
7) logic analyzer breakouts for digital, pin headers for
some signals, some test pads, ground connectors, monitor
leds
8) used to make double sided boards, not plated through,
designs got too complicated for me to make
9) lots
10) not beginner in digital, some analog, power supply
Other people will have different opinions.
Harvey
On 7/12/2020 12:59 AM,
davethetechman via groups.io wrote:
Hi, does anyone have any personal videos of designing with their own personal tips and hacks?
Recently new to this.
Thanks
?
|
The topic of HOME BREW PCBs is a very broad
stroke? of expense and techniques .
I learned a lot from home brewing electronics and
got as far as learning how to make the GERBER files
that we send off to the fabrication houses to
mail order 50 PCBs for $50.
But
sticking to HOME brewing.......
as a ham radio operator I always tried to make
certain that I did not scare off the kids.... parents....? by
demanding
they invest in expensive toys for the hobby of
ham radio.
Sure... some parents CAN blow a wad on the hobby
but way too many kids I met while doing the Mr Wizard types of
science of radio shows for the kids in
the Franklin Institute Science Museum.... for two
years.....?????????? way too many kids were pretty much screwed
out of an education that actually exposed them
to the hobby of electronics. Their school STEM
and STEAM programs were woefully limited to crap science.
I remember one particular program that I thought
was absolutely mind blowing where they spent $50 on
???? computer interfaces to
play bananas as piano tones.
WHILE AT THE SAME TIME
I learned that a $3.50 ARDUINO can be set up to
be a capacitive sensor and I could accomplish the same banana
touch and tones.
Example ARDUINO instructions below.
So... back to HOME BREW PCBs....????? I always
tried to figure out how to get the most done with the least cost
to the parents
so we could inspire the children and they
actually have a chance their parents would blow a few bucks on
ham radio electronics and DIY tinkering projects.
Printing PCBs is a great way to show newbies they
don't have to be investing a lot into the hobby to have some
great results.
We had a big push for Manhatten crazy glue pads?
and ISLANDER donuts drilled with a tile saw and MUPPET .. and
etc......
but it really did boil down do nothing beats
etching a batch of PCBs on the kitchen table and hand them out
like playing cards.
?
#include <CapacitiveSensor.h>
/*
?* CapitiveSense Library Demo Sketch * Paul Badger 2008
?* Uses a high value resistor e.g. 10M between send pin and
receive pin
?* Resistor effects sensitivity, experiment with values, 50K -
50M. Larger resistor values yield larger sensor values.
?* Receive pin is the sensor pin - try different amounts of
foil/metal on this pin
?*/
//## 10M resistor between pins 4 & 2, pin 2 is sensor pin,
add a wire and or foil if desired
//## pin 4 can be shared across multiple sensors?
//## additional capacitors..... 100pF from sensor to ground and?
20 to 400 pf in parallel with body capctnc
CapacitiveSensor?? cs4a2 = CapacitiveSensor(4,2);
void setup()???????????????????
{
?? cs4a2.set_CS_AutocaL_Millis(0xFFFFFFFF);???? // turn off
autocalibrate on channel 1 - just as an example
?? Serial.begin(9600);
}
void loop()???????????????????
{
??? long start = millis();
??? long total1 =? cs4a2.capacitiveSensor(30);
???
??? Serial.print(millis() - start);??????? // check on
performance in milliseconds
??? Serial.print("\t");??????????????????? // tab character for
debug windown spacing
??? Serial.println(total1);??????????????? // print sensor
output 3
??? delay(10);???????????????????????????? // arbitrary delay to
limit data to serial port
}
On 07/25/2020 10:59 PM, Harvey White
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Rob and I do boards differently.? Some of the designs I did
were 100 pin chips with 0.65 or 0.5 mm pin spacing, toner
transfer.? You'll need a very good drill/drill press, a good
laminator, a decent laser printer, and a PCB design program.?
This because the boards are complex enough to need them.?
Complexity of the boards is an important factor.? I used a
mixture of SMD and through hole, with 0805 and 1206 parts,
depending.? It very very much depend on what you want to do and
how much effort you want to put into it.? Home processes have
limitations.? Some people have done plated through holes, and I
admire their dedication.? It became easier for me to have boards
made.?
That doesn't mean that making your own boards is a waste of
time.? Just, to me, that past a certain level of complexity,
type of part and so on, it makes more sense to have someone else
make the boards.? You're still designing them, then.
and I do agree, the main question is "what do you want to
make?"
all the questions devolve from there.
Harvey
On 7/25/2020 10:40 PM, Rob via
groups.io wrote:
YES
I agree with Harvey slamming out the BIG list of
questions......
To Davethetechman .......
It really starts with you answering the ONE question of WHAT
you want to make.
You can? HOME BREW PCBS with a very bare minimum of technical
software, expensive chemicals, and specialty equipment
OR
go can go full throttle with all sorts of professional
expenditures because your target PCB is for something with
extremely tiny SMD ships with 144 pins.
Do you want to use THROUGH HOLE PART or SMD?
If THROUGH HOLE then you can manually draw a schematic on
copper clad board with a permanent marker and 10 minutes later
etch a PCB.
If SMD then you can do the same but have to have a good eye
and steady hand.
And then
there's all sorts of CAD programmer to help you... but you
may not need CAD.
I have made more than 100 PCBs and I have not yet used ANY
EAGLE or any other CAD program.
Rob
On 07/25/2020 09:30 PM, Harvey
White wrote:
Nope.? Don't do videos.
Now questions:
1) designing what?? Digital?? Analog?? RF??
2) what level of complexity?? Do you need 1 layer, 2 layer,
or 4 layer boards?
3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself? (it
makes a difference in how you design them).
4) how big are they (can make a difference in either
cost/who makes it or design/what program you use)?
5) what program do you use?
6) have you any experience with PC board design?
7) what level of hardware debug do you want to put into the
boards (test points?? test pads?? logic analyzer breakouts??
ground posts?)
8) what kind of facilities do you have to make PC boards?
9) have you done any of this before?
10) what level (roughly) in electronics design are you
comfortable with?? beginner?? what?
All of these things have a bearing on *how* you design
something, what design you come up with, how many copies
you'll need before you get one that works (know that
one.....), and whether or not you can make the board
yourself.
I know this may sound
complicated, but answers to some of these help others to
gauge where you are in experience, and what you need to know
(IMHO, of course).
For me: (roughly)
1) designing:? Digital,? Analog.? Have done 100 pin
flatpacks. (self built), do 144 pin flatpacks when someone
else builds them).
2) I do double sided, plated through holes, silk screen,
but that's not me making them.? Have done toner transfer,
10 mil trace, 10 mil spacing, double sided, wire stitch
top and bottom layers, tin/lead plated boards.
3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself? (it
makes a difference in how you design them).
4) no bigger than 100 cm * 100 cm because of the board
house limitations for cheap?
5) EAGLE 7.7, hobby (6 x 4 inch) license, can't sell the
boards.?
6) by this time?? a fair amount, can always learn more
7) logic analyzer breakouts for digital, pin headers for
some signals, some test pads, ground connectors, monitor
leds
8) used to make double sided boards, not plated through,
designs got too complicated for me to make
9) lots
10) not beginner in digital, some analog, power supply
Other people will have different opinions.
Harvey
On 7/12/2020 12:59 AM,
davethetechman via groups.io wrote:
Hi, does anyone have any personal videos of designing with their own personal tips and hacks?
Recently new to this.
Thanks
?
|
?
And then there's fun of solving a "puzzle" with the routing of the
traces, avoiding "ground loops", noisy power traces, etc etc.? I
too
haven't used Eagle etc, but I DO like to use a simple CAD like
Micrographics Designer V3x
?
Charlie
And then
there's all sorts of CAD programmer to help you... but you may not need
CAD.
I have made more than 100 PCBs and I have not yet used ANY EAGLE or any
other CAD program.
Rob
On 07/25/2020 09:30 PM, Harvey White
wrote:
Nope.? Don't do videos.
Now questions:
1) designing what?? Digital?? Analog?? RF??
2) what level of complexity?? Do you need 1 layer, 2 layer, or 4
layer boards?
3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself? (it makes a difference
in how you design them).
4) how big are they (can make a difference in either cost/who makes it or
design/what program you use)?
5) what program do you use?
6) have you any experience with PC board design?
7) what level of hardware debug do you want to put into the boards (test
points?? test pads?? logic analyzer breakouts?? ground
posts?)
8) what kind of facilities do you have to make PC boards?
9) have you done any of this before?
10) what level (roughly) in electronics design are you comfortable
with?? beginner?? what?
All of these things have a bearing on *how* you design something, what
design you come up with, how many copies you'll need before you get one that
works (know that one.....), and whether or not you can make the board
yourself.
I know this may sound complicated, but answers to
some of these help others to gauge where you are in experience, and what you
need to know (IMHO, of course).
For me: (roughly)
1) designing:? Digital,? Analog.? Have done 100 pin
flatpacks. (self built), do 144 pin flatpacks when someone else builds
them).
2) I do double sided, plated through holes, silk screen, but that's not
me making them.? Have done toner transfer, 10 mil trace, 10 mil
spacing, double sided, wire stitch top and bottom layers, tin/lead plated
boards.
3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself? (it makes a difference
in how you design them).
4) no bigger than 100 cm * 100 cm because of the board house limitations
for cheap?
5) EAGLE 7.7, hobby (6 x 4 inch) license, can't sell the boards.?
6) by this time?? a fair amount, can always learn more
7) logic analyzer breakouts for digital, pin headers for some signals,
some test pads, ground connectors, monitor leds
8) used to make double sided boards, not plated through, designs got too
complicated for me to make
9) lots
10) not beginner in digital, some analog, power supply
Other people will have different opinions.
Harvey
On 7/12/2020 12:59 AM, davethetechman via
groups.io wrote:
Hi,
does anyone have any personal videos of designing with their own personal
tips and hacks?
Recently
new to this.
Thanks
?
?
|
Here's some tidbits to chew on for home brewing your own PCBs
"caveman" style.... without the aid of
the complicated CAD....? (C)omputer (A)ided? (D)esign ? software.
Take this for what its worth for you.....?? I make no claims to
fame here.... just massive success.. again and again and again...
for me and my tinkering with building
radios and other electronic toys from scratch without suffering
through the indiginities of breadboard or loose wires or crazy
glue pads failing to work then chasing tail for a week.
It always starts with a schematic.
so.....
I simply take a picture of the schematic and open it in GIMP
image editer....?? learn here if you don't know it:???
These images came from :
and then simply trace all of the thin lines with a fat black ink pen
tool and
add donut holes for all components and draw the components in red or
purple
and move things around enough to accomodate physical parts
connections.
AND ALWAYS LAY PARTs DOWN.... never have resistors or diodes
standing on one end.
Laying parts down uses more space but it makes it much easier for
kids and newbies to
succesfully build a radio.
AND
laying parts down create HUGE pathways on the copper side of the
board to accomodate
trace routing without being screwed by tight spacing.
and then I remove everything ... just erase all the text and
purple and have toner transfer ready artwork.
This is one the the most simple examples I share because it is a
$5 short wave receiver
that has been made all over the world... because it is so simple
to reproduce succesfully.
I few modifications later....?????? and final outcome was this:
On 07/26/2020 10:24 PM, Charlie Hansen
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
And then there's fun of solving a "puzzle" with the routing
of the
traces, avoiding "ground loops", noisy power traces, etc
etc.? I too
haven't used Eagle etc, but I DO like to use a simple CAD
like
Micrographics Designer V3x
?
Charlie
And then
there's all sorts of CAD programmer to help you... but you
may not need CAD.
I have made more than 100 PCBs and I have not yet used ANY
EAGLE or any other CAD program.
Rob
On 07/25/2020 09:30 PM, Harvey
White wrote:
Nope.? Don't do videos.
Now questions:
1) designing what?? Digital?? Analog?? RF??
2) what level of complexity?? Do you need 1 layer, 2 layer,
or 4 layer boards?
3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself? (it
makes a difference in how you design them).
4) how big are they (can make a difference in either
cost/who makes it or design/what program you use)?
5) what program do you use?
6) have you any experience with PC board design?
7) what level of hardware debug do you want to put into the
boards (test points?? test pads?? logic analyzer breakouts??
ground posts?)
8) what kind of facilities do you have to make PC boards?
9) have you done any of this before?
10) what level (roughly) in electronics design are you
comfortable with?? beginner?? what?
All of these things have a bearing on *how* you design
something, what design you come up with, how many copies
you'll need before you get one that works (know that
one.....), and whether or not you can make the board
yourself.
I know this may sound
complicated, but answers to some of these help others to
gauge where you are in experience, and what you need to know
(IMHO, of course).
For me: (roughly)
1) designing:? Digital,? Analog.? Have done 100 pin
flatpacks. (self built), do 144 pin flatpacks when someone
else builds them).
2) I do double sided, plated through holes, silk screen,
but that's not me making them.? Have done toner transfer,
10 mil trace, 10 mil spacing, double sided, wire stitch
top and bottom layers, tin/lead plated boards.
3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself? (it
makes a difference in how you design them).
4) no bigger than 100 cm * 100 cm because of the board
house limitations for cheap?
5) EAGLE 7.7, hobby (6 x 4 inch) license, can't sell the
boards.?
6) by this time?? a fair amount, can always learn more
7) logic analyzer breakouts for digital, pin headers for
some signals, some test pads, ground connectors, monitor
leds
8) used to make double sided boards, not plated through,
designs got too complicated for me to make
9) lots
10) not beginner in digital, some analog, power supply
Other people will have different opinions.
Harvey
On 7/12/2020 12:59 AM,
davethetechman via groups.io wrote:
Hi,
does anyone have any personal videos of designing with their own personal
tips and hacks?
Recently
new to this.
Thanks
?
?
|
Don0t see the point.
gEDA + PCB is not complicated. Just the opposite.
Whatever the elarnign curve is, it affects stuff you need to knwow anyway. YOu can use PCB directly, but I find it to be a pain without schematic.
Only slightly cryptic thing is to learn to define an element.
BFew tidbits aside, it's not that different from drawqing a schematic.
Schematic is a good bookkeeping part that that you need for documentation and keeping the basis fro netlist ( what ought to be connected with what).
PCB contains stuff that you need. GIMP has no concept of element.
You can't just move the resistor pads in GIMP etc.
Above, all GIMP can't keep you in check - shorts and breaks are made easily, once your example contains anything more than one transistor and couple resistors.
With PCB, printing is relatively easy - just export EPS ina importi in Inkscape. This way you can easily do DIY panelization - import EPS of wantd layers, mirror them and arrange as you wish.
Also, GIMP is raster-based. SO, to get deccent resolution, you probably need 1200 dpi. WHich can get really slow, once you have bigger board and more layers.
Really, no reason to torture yourself with GIMP for this.
Don't know about KiCAD ( never liked it), but gEDA+PCB+Inkscape is golden for this. Plus gerbview to check design before sending it to manuifacturing.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 27. 07. 20 05:47, Rob via groups.io wrote: Here's some tidbits to chew on for home brewing your own PCBs "caveman" style.... without the aid of
the complicated CAD....? (C)omputer (A)ided? (D)esign ? software.
Take this for what its worth for you.....?? I make no claims to fame here.... just massive success.. again and again and again... for me and my tinkering with building
radios and other electronic toys from scratch without suffering through the indiginities of breadboard or loose wires or crazy glue pads failing to work then chasing tail for a week.
It always starts with a schematic.
so.....
I simply take a picture of the schematic and open it in GIMP image editer....?? learn here if you don't know it:
These images came from :
and then simply trace all of the thin lines with a fat black ink pen tool and
add donut holes for all components and draw the components in red or purple
and move things around enough to accomodate physical parts connections.
AND ALWAYS LAY PARTs DOWN.... never have resistors or diodes standing on one end.
Laying parts down uses more space but it makes it much easier for kids and newbies to
succesfully build a radio.
AND
laying parts down create HUGE pathways on the copper side of the board to accomodate
trace routing without being screwed by tight spacing.
and then I remove everything ... just erase all the text and purple and have toner transfer ready artwork.
This is one the the most simple examples I share because it is a $5 short wave receiver
that has been made all over the world... because it is so simple to reproduce succesfully.
I few modifications later....?????? and final outcome was this:
On 07/26/2020 10:24 PM, Charlie Hansen wrote:
And then there's fun of solving a "puzzle" with the routing of the
traces, avoiding "ground loops", noisy power traces, etc etc.? I too
haven't used Eagle etc, but I DO like to use a simple CAD like
Micrographics Designer V3x
Charlie
And then
there's all sorts of CAD programmer to help you... but you may not
need CAD.
I have made more than 100 PCBs and I have not yet used ANY EAGLE
or any other CAD program.
Rob
On 07/25/2020 09:30 PM, Harvey White wrote:
Nope.? Don't do videos.
Now questions:
1) designing what?? Digital?? Analog?? RF?
2) what level of complexity?? Do you need 1 layer, 2 layer, or 4
layer boards?
3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself? (it makes a
difference in how you design them).
4) how big are they (can make a difference in either cost/who
makes it or design/what program you use)?
5) what program do you use?
6) have you any experience with PC board design?
7) what level of hardware debug do you want to put into the
boards (test points?? test pads?? logic analyzer breakouts?
ground posts?)
8) what kind of facilities do you have to make PC boards?
9) have you done any of this before?
10) what level (roughly) in electronics design are you
comfortable with?? beginner?? what?
All of these things have a bearing on *how* you design something,
what design you come up with, how many copies you'll need before
you get one that works (know that one.....), and whether or not
you can make the board yourself.
I know this may sound complicated, but answers to some of these
help others to gauge where you are in experience, and what you
need to know (IMHO, of course).
For me: (roughly)
1) designing:? Digital,? Analog.? Have done 100 pin flatpacks.
(self built), do 144 pin flatpacks when someone else builds them).
2) I do double sided, plated through holes, silk screen, but
that's not me making them.? Have done toner transfer, 10 mil
trace, 10 mil spacing, double sided, wire stitch top and bottom
layers, tin/lead plated boards.
3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself? (it makes a
difference in how you design them).
4) no bigger than 100 cm * 100 cm because of the board house
limitations for cheap?
5) EAGLE 7.7, hobby (6 x 4 inch) license, can't sell the boards.?
6) by this time?? a fair amount, can always learn more
7) logic analyzer breakouts for digital, pin headers for some
signals, some test pads, ground connectors, monitor leds
8) used to make double sided boards, not plated through, designs
got too complicated for me to make
9) lots
10) not beginner in digital, some analog, power supply
Other people will have different opinions.
Harvey
On 7/12/2020 12:59 AM, davethetechman via groups.io wrote:
Hi, does anyone have any personal videos of designing with their
own personal tips and hacks?
Recently new to this.
Thanks
--
Branko Badrljica
Chief Editor/glavni urednik
g. +386 (0)40/423-303 ? t. +386 (0)59/156-643
*Medija kit (predstavitev in cenik)
<>*
*Arhiv Avtomatike+E
<>* *Revija
Avtomatika+E Online <>*
*Media kit (intro & pricelist)
<>*
*?ARCHIVE Avtomatika+E
<>*
*?Avtomatika+E Online <>*
<>
S5TEHNIKA.net d.o.o.
SOSTRSKA CESTA 43C
1261 Ljubljana Dobrunje
ID za DDV: SI81396236
|
My vision is impaired.
I have something like macular degeneration messed up retinas and everything looks crushed and twisted to me so
I need bigger, much bigger , everything .......when I tinker with electronics.
and
all of the CAD interfaces have tiny text on racks of tools and buttons onscreen
and
all of the features and settings are easily trashed by me tripping accidentally over them
so
I step back and declare thats not my tool set and stick "caveman" simple ... paint on the wall.....
and get the desired results.
and
I share these tidbits with you all because HOME BREW PCBS is really at all levels.....?? from the simple hand drawn sharpie on PCB to the advanced CAD
programs with detailed granularity tracking component libraries.
There is something for everybody here.
I learned how to make GERBER files last winter.
Neat stuff.
Have fun.
I am.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 07/27/2020 03:28 AM, brane212 wrote: Don0t see the point.
gEDA + PCB is not complicated. Just the opposite.
Whatever the elarnign curve is, it affects stuff you need to knwow anyway. YOu can use PCB directly, but I find it to be a pain without schematic.
Only slightly cryptic thing is to learn to define an element.
BFew tidbits aside, it's not that different from drawqing a schematic.
Schematic is a good bookkeeping part that that you need for documentation and keeping the basis fro netlist ( what ought to be connected with what).
PCB contains stuff that you need. GIMP has no concept of element.
You can't just move the resistor pads in GIMP etc.
Above, all GIMP can't keep you in check - shorts and breaks are made easily, once your example contains anything more than one transistor and couple resistors.
With PCB, printing is relatively easy - just export EPS ina importi in Inkscape. This way you can easily do DIY panelization - import EPS of wantd layers, mirror them and arrange as you wish.
Also, GIMP is raster-based. SO, to get deccent resolution, you probably need 1200 dpi. WHich can get really slow, once you have bigger board and more layers.
Really, no reason to torture yourself with GIMP for this.
Don't know about KiCAD ( never liked it), but gEDA+PCB+Inkscape is golden for this. Plus gerbview to check design before sending it to manuifacturing.
On 27. 07. 20 05:47, Rob via groups.io wrote:
Here's some tidbits to chew on for home brewing your own PCBs "caveman" style.... without the aid of
the complicated CAD....? (C)omputer (A)ided? (D)esign software.
Take this for what its worth for you.....?? I make no claims to fame here.... just massive success.. again and again and again... for me and my tinkering with building
radios and other electronic toys from scratch without suffering through the indiginities of breadboard or loose wires or crazy glue pads failing to work then chasing tail for a week.
It always starts with a schematic.
so.....
I simply take a picture of the schematic and open it in GIMP image editer....?? learn here if you don't know it:
These images came from :
and then simply trace all of the thin lines with a fat black ink pen tool and
add donut holes for all components and draw the components in red or purple
and move things around enough to accomodate physical parts connections.
AND ALWAYS LAY PARTs DOWN.... never have resistors or diodes standing on one end.
Laying parts down uses more space but it makes it much easier for kids and newbies to
succesfully build a radio.
AND
laying parts down create HUGE pathways on the copper side of the board to accomodate
trace routing without being screwed by tight spacing.
and then I remove everything ... just erase all the text and purple and have toner transfer ready artwork.
This is one the the most simple examples I share because it is a $5 short wave receiver
that has been made all over the world... because it is so simple to reproduce succesfully.
I few modifications later....?????? and final outcome was this:
On 07/26/2020 10:24 PM, Charlie Hansen wrote:
And then there's fun of solving a "puzzle" with the routing of the
traces, avoiding "ground loops", noisy power traces, etc etc. I too
haven't used Eagle etc, but I DO like to use a simple CAD like
Micrographics Designer V3x
Charlie
??? And then
??? there's all sorts of CAD programmer to help you... but you may not
??? need CAD.
??? I have made more than 100 PCBs and I have not yet used ANY EAGLE
??? or any other CAD program.
??? Rob
???
???
???
???
??? On 07/25/2020 09:30 PM, Harvey White wrote:
??? Nope.? Don't do videos.
??? Now questions:
??? 1) designing what?? Digital?? Analog?? RF?
??? 2) what level of complexity?? Do you need 1 layer, 2 layer, or 4
??? layer boards?
??? 3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself? (it makes a
??? difference in how you design them).
??? 4) how big are they (can make a difference in either cost/who
??? makes it or design/what program you use)?
??? 5) what program do you use?
??? 6) have you any experience with PC board design?
??? 7) what level of hardware debug do you want to put into the
??? boards (test points?? test pads?? logic analyzer breakouts?
??? ground posts?)
??? 8) what kind of facilities do you have to make PC boards?
??? 9) have you done any of this before?
??? 10) what level (roughly) in electronics design are you
??? comfortable with?? beginner?? what?
??? All of these things have a bearing on *how* you design something,
??? what design you come up with, how many copies you'll need before
??? you get one that works (know that one.....), and whether or not
??? you can make the board yourself.
??? I know this may sound complicated, but answers to some of these
??? help others to gauge where you are in experience, and what you
??? need to know (IMHO, of course).
??? For me: (roughly)
??? 1) designing:? Digital,? Analog.? Have done 100 pin flatpacks.
??? (self built), do 144 pin flatpacks when someone else builds them).
??? 2) I do double sided, plated through holes, silk screen, but
??? that's not me making them.? Have done toner transfer, 10 mil
??? trace, 10 mil spacing, double sided, wire stitch top and bottom
??? layers, tin/lead plated boards.
??? 3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself? (it makes a
??? difference in how you design them).
??? 4) no bigger than 100 cm * 100 cm because of the board house
??? limitations for cheap?
??? 5) EAGLE 7.7, hobby (6 x 4 inch) license, can't sell the boards.?
??? 6) by this time?? a fair amount, can always learn more
??? 7) logic analyzer breakouts for digital, pin headers for some
??? signals, some test pads, ground connectors, monitor leds
??? 8) used to make double sided boards, not plated through, designs
??? got too complicated for me to make
??? 9) lots
??? 10) not beginner in digital, some analog, power supply
??? Other people will have different opinions.
??? Harvey
??? On 7/12/2020 12:59 AM, davethetechman via groups.io wrote:
??? Hi, does anyone have any personal videos of designing with their
??? own personal tips and hacks?
??? Recently new to this.
??? Thanks
|
Wish you to recover soober Rob
Regards Sarma? vu3zmv
My vision is impaired.
I have something like macular degeneration messed up retinas and
everything looks crushed and twisted to me so
I need bigger, much bigger , everything .......when I tinker with
electronics.
and
all of the CAD interfaces have tiny text on racks of tools and buttons
onscreen
and
all of the features and settings are easily trashed by me tripping
accidentally over them
so
I step back and declare thats not my tool set and stick "caveman" simple
... paint on the wall.....
and get the desired results.
and
I share these tidbits with you all because HOME BREW PCBS is really at
all levels.....?? from the simple hand drawn sharpie on PCB to the
advanced CAD
programs with detailed granularity tracking component libraries.
There is something for everybody here.
I learned how to make GERBER files last winter.
Neat stuff.
Have fun.
I am.
On 07/27/2020 03:28 AM, brane212 wrote:
> Don0t see the point.
>
> gEDA + PCB is not complicated. Just the opposite.
>
> Whatever the elarnign curve is, it affects stuff you need to knwow
> anyway. YOu can use PCB directly, but I find it to be a pain without
> schematic.
>
> Only slightly cryptic thing is to learn to define an element.
> BFew tidbits aside, it's not that different from drawqing a schematic.
>
>
> Schematic is a good bookkeeping part that that you need for
> documentation and keeping the basis fro netlist ( what ought to be
> connected with what).
>
> PCB contains stuff that you need. GIMP has no concept of element.
> You can't just move the resistor pads in GIMP etc.
>
> Above, all GIMP can't keep you in check - shorts and breaks are made
> easily, once your example contains anything more than one transistor
> and couple resistors.
>
> With PCB, printing is relatively easy - just export EPS ina importi in
> Inkscape. This way you can easily do DIY panelization - import EPS of
> wantd layers, mirror them and arrange as you wish.
>
> Also, GIMP is raster-based. SO, to get deccent resolution, you
> probably need 1200 dpi. WHich can get really slow, once you have
> bigger board and more layers.
>
> Really, no reason to torture yourself with GIMP for this.
>
> Don't know about KiCAD ( never liked it), but gEDA+PCB+Inkscape is
> golden for this. Plus gerbview to check design before sending it to
> manuifacturing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 27. 07. 20 05:47, Rob via wrote:
>> Here's some tidbits to chew on for home brewing your own PCBs
>> "caveman" style.... without the aid of
>>
>> the complicated CAD....? (C)omputer (A)ided? (D)esign software.
>>
>> Take this for what its worth for you.....?? I make no claims to fame
>> here.... just massive success.. again and again and again... for me
>> and my tinkering with building
>>
>> radios and other electronic toys from scratch without suffering
>> through the indiginities of breadboard or loose wires or crazy glue
>> pads failing to work then chasing tail for a week.
>>
>>
>> It always starts with a schematic.
>>
>> so.....
>>
>> I simply take a picture of the schematic and open it in GIMP image
>> editer....?? learn here if you don't know it:
>>
>> These images came from :
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> and then simply trace all of the thin lines with a fat black ink pen
>> tool and
>> add donut holes for all components and draw the components in red or
>> purple
>> and move things around enough to accomodate physical parts connections.
>> AND ALWAYS LAY PARTs DOWN.... never have resistors or diodes standing
>> on one end.
>>
>> Laying parts down uses more space but it makes it much easier for
>> kids and newbies to
>> succesfully build a radio.
>> AND
>> laying parts down create HUGE pathways on the copper side of the
>> board to accomodate
>> trace routing without being screwed by tight spacing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> and then I remove everything ... just erase all the text and purple
>> and have toner transfer ready artwork.
>>
>>
>> This is one the the most simple examples I share because it is a $5
>> short wave receiver
>>
>> that has been made all over the world... because it is so simple to
>> reproduce succesfully.
>>
>> I few modifications later....?????? and final outcome was this:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 07/26/2020 10:24 PM, Charlie Hansen wrote:
>>> And then there's fun of solving a "puzzle" with the routing of the
>>> traces, avoiding "ground loops", noisy power traces, etc etc. I too
>>> haven't used Eagle etc, but I DO like to use a simple CAD like
>>> Micrographics Designer V3x
>>> Charlie
>>>
>>> ??? And then
>>>
>>> ??? there's all sorts of CAD programmer to help you... but you may not
>>> ??? need CAD.
>>>
>>> ??? I have made more than 100 PCBs and I have not yet used ANY EAGLE
>>> ??? or any other CAD program.
>>>
>>>
>>> ??? Rob
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ??? On 07/25/2020 09:30 PM, Harvey White wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ??? Nope.? Don't do videos.
>>>>
>>>> ??? Now questions:
>>>>
>>>> ??? 1) designing what?? Digital?? Analog?? RF?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 2) what level of complexity?? Do you need 1 layer, 2 layer, or 4
>>>> ??? layer boards?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself? (it makes a
>>>> ??? difference in how you design them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 4) how big are they (can make a difference in either cost/who
>>>> ??? makes it or design/what program you use)?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 5) what program do you use?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 6) have you any experience with PC board design?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 7) what level of hardware debug do you want to put into the
>>>> ??? boards (test points?? test pads?? logic analyzer breakouts?
>>>> ??? ground posts?)
>>>>
>>>> ??? 8) what kind of facilities do you have to make PC boards?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 9) have you done any of this before?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 10) what level (roughly) in electronics design are you
>>>> ??? comfortable with?? beginner?? what?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? All of these things have a bearing on *how* you design something,
>>>> ??? what design you come up with, how many copies you'll need before
>>>> ??? you get one that works (know that one.....), and whether or not
>>>> ??? you can make the board yourself.
>>>>
>>>> ??? I know this may sound complicated, but answers to some of these
>>>> ??? help others to gauge where you are in experience, and what you
>>>> ??? need to know (IMHO, of course).
>>>>
>>>> ??? For me: (roughly)
>>>>
>>>> ??? 1) designing:? Digital,? Analog.? Have done 100 pin flatpacks.
>>>> ??? (self built), do 144 pin flatpacks when someone else builds them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 2) I do double sided, plated through holes, silk screen, but
>>>> ??? that's not me making them.? Have done toner transfer, 10 mil
>>>> ??? trace, 10 mil spacing, double sided, wire stitch top and bottom
>>>> ??? layers, tin/lead plated boards.
>>>>
>>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself? (it makes a
>>>> ??? difference in how you design them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 4) no bigger than 100 cm * 100 cm because of the board house
>>>> ??? limitations for cheap?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 5) EAGLE 7.7, hobby (6 x 4 inch) license, can't sell the boards.?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 6) by this time?? a fair amount, can always learn more
>>>>
>>>> ??? 7) logic analyzer breakouts for digital, pin headers for some
>>>> ??? signals, some test pads, ground connectors, monitor leds
>>>>
>>>> ??? 8) used to make double sided boards, not plated through, designs
>>>> ??? got too complicated for me to make
>>>>
>>>> ??? 9) lots
>>>>
>>>> ??? 10) not beginner in digital, some analog, power supply
>>>>
>>>> ??? Other people will have different opinions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? Harvey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? On 7/12/2020 12:59 AM, davethetechman via wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Hi, does anyone have any personal videos of designing with their
>>>>> ??? own personal tips and hacks?
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Recently new to this.
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Thanks
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
|
Fine, but PCB and SCH are based on the same GTK toolkit as GIMP.
So one can adapt them the same way.
Even if you don't plan to sue SCH, PCB by itself is big step ahead.
Both also have settable key shortcuts etc.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 27. 07. 20 07:43, Rob via groups.io wrote: My vision is impaired.
I have something like macular degeneration messed up retinas and everything looks crushed and twisted to me so
I need bigger, much bigger , everything .......when I tinker with electronics.
and
all of the CAD interfaces have tiny text on racks of tools and buttons onscreen
and
all of the features and settings are easily trashed by me tripping accidentally over them
so
I step back and declare thats not my tool set and stick "caveman" simple ... paint on the wall.....
and get the desired results.
and
I share these tidbits with you all because HOME BREW PCBS is really at all levels.....?? from the simple hand drawn sharpie on PCB to the advanced CAD
programs with detailed granularity tracking component libraries.
There is something for everybody here.
I learned how to make GERBER files last winter.
Neat stuff.
Have fun.
I am.
On 07/27/2020 03:28 AM, brane212 wrote:
Don0t see the point.
gEDA + PCB is not complicated. Just the opposite.
Whatever the elarnign curve is, it affects stuff you need to knwow anyway. YOu can use PCB directly, but I find it to be a pain without schematic.
Only slightly cryptic thing is to learn to define an element.
BFew tidbits aside, it's not that different from drawqing a schematic.
Schematic is a good bookkeeping part that that you need for documentation and keeping the basis fro netlist ( what ought to be connected with what).
PCB contains stuff that you need. GIMP has no concept of element.
You can't just move the resistor pads in GIMP etc.
Above, all GIMP can't keep you in check - shorts and breaks are made easily, once your example contains anything more than one transistor and couple resistors.
With PCB, printing is relatively easy - just export EPS ina importi in Inkscape. This way you can easily do DIY panelization - import EPS of wantd layers, mirror them and arrange as you wish.
Also, GIMP is raster-based. SO, to get deccent resolution, you probably need 1200 dpi. WHich can get really slow, once you have bigger board and more layers.
Really, no reason to torture yourself with GIMP for this.
Don't know about KiCAD ( never liked it), but gEDA+PCB+Inkscape is golden for this. Plus gerbview to check design before sending it to manuifacturing.
On 27. 07. 20 05:47, Rob via groups.io wrote:
Here's some tidbits to chew on for home brewing your own PCBs "caveman" style.... without the aid of
the complicated CAD....? (C)omputer (A)ided? (D)esign software.
Take this for what its worth for you.....?? I make no claims to fame here.... just massive success.. again and again and again... for me and my tinkering with building
radios and other electronic toys from scratch without suffering through the indiginities of breadboard or loose wires or crazy glue pads failing to work then chasing tail for a week.
It always starts with a schematic.
so.....
I simply take a picture of the schematic and open it in GIMP image editer....?? learn here if you don't know it:
These images came from :
and then simply trace all of the thin lines with a fat black ink pen tool and
add donut holes for all components and draw the components in red or purple
and move things around enough to accomodate physical parts connections.
AND ALWAYS LAY PARTs DOWN.... never have resistors or diodes standing on one end.
Laying parts down uses more space but it makes it much easier for kids and newbies to
succesfully build a radio.
AND
laying parts down create HUGE pathways on the copper side of the board to accomodate
trace routing without being screwed by tight spacing.
and then I remove everything ... just erase all the text and purple and have toner transfer ready artwork.
This is one the the most simple examples I share because it is a $5 short wave receiver
that has been made all over the world... because it is so simple to reproduce succesfully.
I few modifications later....?????? and final outcome was this:
On 07/26/2020 10:24 PM, Charlie Hansen wrote:
And then there's fun of solving a "puzzle" with the routing of the
traces, avoiding "ground loops", noisy power traces, etc etc. I too
haven't used Eagle etc, but I DO like to use a simple CAD like
Micrographics Designer V3x
Charlie
??? And then
??? there's all sorts of CAD programmer to help you... but you may not
??? need CAD.
??? I have made more than 100 PCBs and I have not yet used ANY EAGLE
??? or any other CAD program.
??? Rob
???
???
???
???
??? On 07/25/2020 09:30 PM, Harvey White wrote:
??? Nope.? Don't do videos.
??? Now questions:
??? 1) designing what?? Digital?? Analog?? RF?
??? 2) what level of complexity?? Do you need 1 layer, 2 layer, or 4
??? layer boards?
??? 3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself? (it makes a
??? difference in how you design them).
??? 4) how big are they (can make a difference in either cost/who
??? makes it or design/what program you use)?
??? 5) what program do you use?
??? 6) have you any experience with PC board design?
??? 7) what level of hardware debug do you want to put into the
??? boards (test points?? test pads?? logic analyzer breakouts?
??? ground posts?)
??? 8) what kind of facilities do you have to make PC boards?
??? 9) have you done any of this before?
??? 10) what level (roughly) in electronics design are you
??? comfortable with?? beginner?? what?
??? All of these things have a bearing on *how* you design something,
??? what design you come up with, how many copies you'll need before
??? you get one that works (know that one.....), and whether or not
??? you can make the board yourself.
??? I know this may sound complicated, but answers to some of these
??? help others to gauge where you are in experience, and what you
??? need to know (IMHO, of course).
??? For me: (roughly)
??? 1) designing:? Digital,? Analog.? Have done 100 pin flatpacks.
??? (self built), do 144 pin flatpacks when someone else builds them).
??? 2) I do double sided, plated through holes, silk screen, but
??? that's not me making them.? Have done toner transfer, 10 mil
??? trace, 10 mil spacing, double sided, wire stitch top and bottom
??? layers, tin/lead plated boards.
??? 3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself? (it makes a
??? difference in how you design them).
??? 4) no bigger than 100 cm * 100 cm because of the board house
??? limitations for cheap?
??? 5) EAGLE 7.7, hobby (6 x 4 inch) license, can't sell the boards.?
??? 6) by this time?? a fair amount, can always learn more
??? 7) logic analyzer breakouts for digital, pin headers for some
??? signals, some test pads, ground connectors, monitor leds
??? 8) used to make double sided boards, not plated through, designs
??? got too complicated for me to make
??? 9) lots
??? 10) not beginner in digital, some analog, power supply
??? Other people will have different opinions.
??? Harvey
??? On 7/12/2020 12:59 AM, davethetechman via groups.io wrote:
??? Hi, does anyone have any personal videos of designing with their
??? own personal tips and hacks?
??? Recently new to this.
??? Thanks
--
Branko Badrljica
Chief Editor/glavni urednik
g. +386 (0)40/423-303 ? t. +386 (0)59/156-643
*Medija kit (predstavitev in cenik)
<>*
*Arhiv Avtomatike+E
<>* *Revija
Avtomatika+E Online <>*
*Media kit (intro & pricelist)
<>*
*?ARCHIVE Avtomatika+E
<>*
*?Avtomatika+E Online <>*
<>
S5TEHNIKA.net d.o.o.
SOSTRSKA CESTA 43C
1261 Ljubljana Dobrunje
ID za DDV: SI81396236
|
Wish Rob? a stable and fast recovery.
Wish you to recover soober Rob
Regards Sarma? vu3zmv
My vision is impaired.
I have something like macular degeneration messed up retinas and
everything looks crushed and twisted to me so
I need bigger, much bigger , everything .......when I tinker with
electronics.
and
all of the CAD interfaces have tiny text on racks of tools and buttons
onscreen
and
all of the features and settings are easily trashed by me tripping
accidentally over them
so
I step back and declare thats not my tool set and stick "caveman" simple
... paint on the wall.....
and get the desired results.
and
I share these tidbits with you all because HOME BREW PCBS is really at
all levels.....?? from the simple hand drawn sharpie on PCB to the
advanced CAD
programs with detailed granularity tracking component libraries.
There is something for everybody here.
I learned how to make GERBER files last winter.
Neat stuff.
Have fun.
I am.
On 07/27/2020 03:28 AM, brane212 wrote:
> Don0t see the point.
>
> gEDA + PCB is not complicated. Just the opposite.
>
> Whatever the elarnign curve is, it affects stuff you need to knwow
> anyway. YOu can use PCB directly, but I find it to be a pain without
> schematic.
>
> Only slightly cryptic thing is to learn to define an element.
> BFew tidbits aside, it's not that different from drawqing a schematic.
>
>
> Schematic is a good bookkeeping part that that you need for
> documentation and keeping the basis fro netlist ( what ought to be
> connected with what).
>
> PCB contains stuff that you need. GIMP has no concept of element.
> You can't just move the resistor pads in GIMP etc.
>
> Above, all GIMP can't keep you in check - shorts and breaks are made
> easily, once your example contains anything more than one transistor
> and couple resistors.
>
> With PCB, printing is relatively easy - just export EPS ina importi in
> Inkscape. This way you can easily do DIY panelization - import EPS of
> wantd layers, mirror them and arrange as you wish.
>
> Also, GIMP is raster-based. SO, to get deccent resolution, you
> probably need 1200 dpi. WHich can get really slow, once you have
> bigger board and more layers.
>
> Really, no reason to torture yourself with GIMP for this.
>
> Don't know about KiCAD ( never liked it), but gEDA+PCB+Inkscape is
> golden for this. Plus gerbview to check design before sending it to
> manuifacturing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 27. 07. 20 05:47, Rob via wrote:
>> Here's some tidbits to chew on for home brewing your own PCBs
>> "caveman" style.... without the aid of
>>
>> the complicated CAD....? (C)omputer (A)ided? (D)esign software.
>>
>> Take this for what its worth for you.....?? I make no claims to fame
>> here.... just massive success.. again and again and again... for me
>> and my tinkering with building
>>
>> radios and other electronic toys from scratch without suffering
>> through the indiginities of breadboard or loose wires or crazy glue
>> pads failing to work then chasing tail for a week.
>>
>>
>> It always starts with a schematic.
>>
>> so.....
>>
>> I simply take a picture of the schematic and open it in GIMP image
>> editer....?? learn here if you don't know it:
>>
>> These images came from :
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> and then simply trace all of the thin lines with a fat black ink pen
>> tool and
>> add donut holes for all components and draw the components in red or
>> purple
>> and move things around enough to accomodate physical parts connections.
>> AND ALWAYS LAY PARTs DOWN.... never have resistors or diodes standing
>> on one end.
>>
>> Laying parts down uses more space but it makes it much easier for
>> kids and newbies to
>> succesfully build a radio.
>> AND
>> laying parts down create HUGE pathways on the copper side of the
>> board to accomodate
>> trace routing without being screwed by tight spacing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> and then I remove everything ... just erase all the text and purple
>> and have toner transfer ready artwork.
>>
>>
>> This is one the the most simple examples I share because it is a $5
>> short wave receiver
>>
>> that has been made all over the world... because it is so simple to
>> reproduce succesfully.
>>
>> I few modifications later....?????? and final outcome was this:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 07/26/2020 10:24 PM, Charlie Hansen wrote:
>>> And then there's fun of solving a "puzzle" with the routing of the
>>> traces, avoiding "ground loops", noisy power traces, etc etc. I too
>>> haven't used Eagle etc, but I DO like to use a simple CAD like
>>> Micrographics Designer V3x
>>> Charlie
>>>
>>> ??? And then
>>>
>>> ??? there's all sorts of CAD programmer to help you... but you may not
>>> ??? need CAD.
>>>
>>> ??? I have made more than 100 PCBs and I have not yet used ANY EAGLE
>>> ??? or any other CAD program.
>>>
>>>
>>> ??? Rob
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ??? On 07/25/2020 09:30 PM, Harvey White wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ??? Nope.? Don't do videos.
>>>>
>>>> ??? Now questions:
>>>>
>>>> ??? 1) designing what?? Digital?? Analog?? RF?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 2) what level of complexity?? Do you need 1 layer, 2 layer, or 4
>>>> ??? layer boards?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself? (it makes a
>>>> ??? difference in how you design them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 4) how big are they (can make a difference in either cost/who
>>>> ??? makes it or design/what program you use)?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 5) what program do you use?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 6) have you any experience with PC board design?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 7) what level of hardware debug do you want to put into the
>>>> ??? boards (test points?? test pads?? logic analyzer breakouts?
>>>> ??? ground posts?)
>>>>
>>>> ??? 8) what kind of facilities do you have to make PC boards?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 9) have you done any of this before?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 10) what level (roughly) in electronics design are you
>>>> ??? comfortable with?? beginner?? what?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? All of these things have a bearing on *how* you design something,
>>>> ??? what design you come up with, how many copies you'll need before
>>>> ??? you get one that works (know that one.....), and whether or not
>>>> ??? you can make the board yourself.
>>>>
>>>> ??? I know this may sound complicated, but answers to some of these
>>>> ??? help others to gauge where you are in experience, and what you
>>>> ??? need to know (IMHO, of course).
>>>>
>>>> ??? For me: (roughly)
>>>>
>>>> ??? 1) designing:? Digital,? Analog.? Have done 100 pin flatpacks.
>>>> ??? (self built), do 144 pin flatpacks when someone else builds them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 2) I do double sided, plated through holes, silk screen, but
>>>> ??? that's not me making them.? Have done toner transfer, 10 mil
>>>> ??? trace, 10 mil spacing, double sided, wire stitch top and bottom
>>>> ??? layers, tin/lead plated boards.
>>>>
>>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself? (it makes a
>>>> ??? difference in how you design them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 4) no bigger than 100 cm * 100 cm because of the board house
>>>> ??? limitations for cheap?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 5) EAGLE 7.7, hobby (6 x 4 inch) license, can't sell the boards.?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 6) by this time?? a fair amount, can always learn more
>>>>
>>>> ??? 7) logic analyzer breakouts for digital, pin headers for some
>>>> ??? signals, some test pads, ground connectors, monitor leds
>>>>
>>>> ??? 8) used to make double sided boards, not plated through, designs
>>>> ??? got too complicated for me to make
>>>>
>>>> ??? 9) lots
>>>>
>>>> ??? 10) not beginner in digital, some analog, power supply
>>>>
>>>> ??? Other people will have different opinions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? Harvey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? On 7/12/2020 12:59 AM, davethetechman via wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Hi, does anyone have any personal videos of designing with their
>>>>> ??? own personal tips and hacks?
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Recently new to this.
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Thanks
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
|
I have Wet Macular Degeneration in one eye. Wet Macular Degeneration is a condition that results from blood vessels growing up through the eye’s epithelial layer and lifting the retina off of the epithelial layer, thus starving the retinal cells of the ability to regenerate. The condition may be controlled but not cured by injecting ?a medecine called Eyelea into to eyeball every few weeks. The medecine inhibits the growth of the blood vessels. The condition naturally gets worse, slowly, over time and is irreversible. Eventually (so I’m told) one loses one’s eyesight in the affected eye. My eyesight in the affected eye had gone from 20/25 to 20/100 over the past seven years.
Dry Macular Degeneration is a different condition for which, at present, there is no treatment.
DaveD
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 27, 2020, at 05:07, MVS Sarma < mvssarma@...> wrote: Wish Rob? a stable and fast recovery. Wish you to recover soober Rob
Regards Sarma? vu3zmv
My vision is impaired.
I have something like macular degeneration messed up retinas and
everything looks crushed and twisted to me so
I need bigger, much bigger , everything .......when I tinker with
electronics.
and
all of the CAD interfaces have tiny text on racks of tools and buttons
onscreen
and
all of the features and settings are easily trashed by me tripping
accidentally over them
so
I step back and declare thats not my tool set and stick "caveman" simple
... paint on the wall.....
and get the desired results.
and
I share these tidbits with you all because HOME BREW PCBS is really at
all levels.....?? from the simple hand drawn sharpie on PCB to the
advanced CAD
programs with detailed granularity tracking component libraries.
There is something for everybody here.
I learned how to make GERBER files last winter.
Neat stuff.
Have fun.
I am.
On 07/27/2020 03:28 AM, brane212 wrote:
> Don0t see the point.
>
> gEDA + PCB is not complicated. Just the opposite.
>
> Whatever the elarnign curve is, it affects stuff you need to knwow
> anyway. YOu can use PCB directly, but I find it to be a pain without
> schematic.
>
> Only slightly cryptic thing is to learn to define an element.
> BFew tidbits aside, it's not that different from drawqing a schematic.
>
>
> Schematic is a good bookkeeping part that that you need for
> documentation and keeping the basis fro netlist ( what ought to be
> connected with what).
>
> PCB contains stuff that you need. GIMP has no concept of element.
> You can't just move the resistor pads in GIMP etc.
>
> Above, all GIMP can't keep you in check - shorts and breaks are made
> easily, once your example contains anything more than one transistor
> and couple resistors.
>
> With PCB, printing is relatively easy - just export EPS ina importi in
> Inkscape. This way you can easily do DIY panelization - import EPS of
> wantd layers, mirror them and arrange as you wish.
>
> Also, GIMP is raster-based. SO, to get deccent resolution, you
> probably need 1200 dpi. WHich can get really slow, once you have
> bigger board and more layers.
>
> Really, no reason to torture yourself with GIMP for this.
>
> Don't know about KiCAD ( never liked it), but gEDA+PCB+Inkscape is
> golden for this. Plus gerbview to check design before sending it to
> manuifacturing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 27. 07. 20 05:47, Rob via wrote:
>> Here's some tidbits to chew on for home brewing your own PCBs
>> "caveman" style.... without the aid of
>>
>> the complicated CAD....? (C)omputer (A)ided? (D)esign software.
>>
>> Take this for what its worth for you.....?? I make no claims to fame
>> here.... just massive success.. again and again and again... for me
>> and my tinkering with building
>>
>> radios and other electronic toys from scratch without suffering
>> through the indiginities of breadboard or loose wires or crazy glue
>> pads failing to work then chasing tail for a week.
>>
>>
>> It always starts with a schematic.
>>
>> so.....
>>
>> I simply take a picture of the schematic and open it in GIMP image
>> editer....?? learn here if you don't know it:
>>
>> These images came from :
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> and then simply trace all of the thin lines with a fat black ink pen
>> tool and
>> add donut holes for all components and draw the components in red or
>> purple
>> and move things around enough to accomodate physical parts connections.
>> AND ALWAYS LAY PARTs DOWN.... never have resistors or diodes standing
>> on one end.
>>
>> Laying parts down uses more space but it makes it much easier for
>> kids and newbies to
>> succesfully build a radio.
>> AND
>> laying parts down create HUGE pathways on the copper side of the
>> board to accomodate
>> trace routing without being screwed by tight spacing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> and then I remove everything ... just erase all the text and purple
>> and have toner transfer ready artwork.
>>
>>
>> This is one the the most simple examples I share because it is a $5
>> short wave receiver
>>
>> that has been made all over the world... because it is so simple to
>> reproduce succesfully.
>>
>> I few modifications later....?????? and final outcome was this:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 07/26/2020 10:24 PM, Charlie Hansen wrote:
>>> And then there's fun of solving a "puzzle" with the routing of the
>>> traces, avoiding "ground loops", noisy power traces, etc etc. I too
>>> haven't used Eagle etc, but I DO like to use a simple CAD like
>>> Micrographics Designer V3x
>>> Charlie
>>>
>>> ??? And then
>>>
>>> ??? there's all sorts of CAD programmer to help you... but you may not
>>> ??? need CAD.
>>>
>>> ??? I have made more than 100 PCBs and I have not yet used ANY EAGLE
>>> ??? or any other CAD program.
>>>
>>>
>>> ??? Rob
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ??? On 07/25/2020 09:30 PM, Harvey White wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ??? Nope.? Don't do videos.
>>>>
>>>> ??? Now questions:
>>>>
>>>> ??? 1) designing what?? Digital?? Analog?? RF?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 2) what level of complexity?? Do you need 1 layer, 2 layer, or 4
>>>> ??? layer boards?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself? (it makes a
>>>> ??? difference in how you design them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 4) how big are they (can make a difference in either cost/who
>>>> ??? makes it or design/what program you use)?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 5) what program do you use?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 6) have you any experience with PC board design?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 7) what level of hardware debug do you want to put into the
>>>> ??? boards (test points?? test pads?? logic analyzer breakouts?
>>>> ??? ground posts?)
>>>>
>>>> ??? 8) what kind of facilities do you have to make PC boards?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 9) have you done any of this before?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 10) what level (roughly) in electronics design are you
>>>> ??? comfortable with?? beginner?? what?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? All of these things have a bearing on *how* you design something,
>>>> ??? what design you come up with, how many copies you'll need before
>>>> ??? you get one that works (know that one.....), and whether or not
>>>> ??? you can make the board yourself.
>>>>
>>>> ??? I know this may sound complicated, but answers to some of these
>>>> ??? help others to gauge where you are in experience, and what you
>>>> ??? need to know (IMHO, of course).
>>>>
>>>> ??? For me: (roughly)
>>>>
>>>> ??? 1) designing:? Digital,? Analog.? Have done 100 pin flatpacks.
>>>> ??? (self built), do 144 pin flatpacks when someone else builds them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 2) I do double sided, plated through holes, silk screen, but
>>>> ??? that's not me making them.? Have done toner transfer, 10 mil
>>>> ??? trace, 10 mil spacing, double sided, wire stitch top and bottom
>>>> ??? layers, tin/lead plated boards.
>>>>
>>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself? (it makes a
>>>> ??? difference in how you design them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 4) no bigger than 100 cm * 100 cm because of the board house
>>>> ??? limitations for cheap?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 5) EAGLE 7.7, hobby (6 x 4 inch) license, can't sell the boards.?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 6) by this time?? a fair amount, can always learn more
>>>>
>>>> ??? 7) logic analyzer breakouts for digital, pin headers for some
>>>> ??? signals, some test pads, ground connectors, monitor leds
>>>>
>>>> ??? 8) used to make double sided boards, not plated through, designs
>>>> ??? got too complicated for me to make
>>>>
>>>> ??? 9) lots
>>>>
>>>> ??? 10) not beginner in digital, some analog, power supply
>>>>
>>>> ??? Other people will have different opinions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? Harvey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? On 7/12/2020 12:59 AM, davethetechman via wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Hi, does anyone have any personal videos of designing with their
>>>>> ??? own personal tips and hacks?
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Recently new to this.
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Thanks
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
|
Thanks Sarma....
but no recovery.... vision scrambled 19 years ago
and I have not driven a car in 19 years.
But its not so bad. Everybody looks like a
Picasso painting to me.
Good and bad.
Pretty girls look like monsters....? bent nose.... ears.....
BUT
ugly girls look like monsters to me..........
so everybody? looks the same to me.
On 07/27/2020 05:07 AM, MVS Sarma
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Wish Rob? a stable and fast recovery.
Wish you to recover soober Rob
Regards
Sarma? vu3zmv
My
vision is impaired.
I have something like macular degeneration messed up
retinas and
everything looks crushed and twisted to me so
I need bigger, much bigger , everything .......when I
tinker with
electronics.
and
all of the CAD interfaces have tiny text on racks of tools
and buttons
onscreen
and
all of the features and settings are easily trashed by me
tripping
accidentally over them
so
I step back and declare thats not my tool set and stick
"caveman" simple
... paint on the wall.....
and get the desired results.
and
I share these tidbits with you all because HOME BREW PCBS
is really at
all levels.....?? from the simple hand drawn sharpie on
PCB to the
advanced CAD
programs with detailed granularity tracking component
libraries.
There is something for everybody here.
I learned how to make GERBER files last winter.
Neat stuff.
Have fun.
I am.
On 07/27/2020 03:28 AM, brane212 wrote:
> Don0t see the point.
>
> gEDA + PCB is not complicated. Just the opposite.
>
> Whatever the elarnign curve is, it affects stuff you
need to knwow
> anyway. YOu can use PCB directly, but I find it to be
a pain without
> schematic.
>
> Only slightly cryptic thing is to learn to define an
element.
> BFew tidbits aside, it's not that different from
drawqing a schematic.
>
>
> Schematic is a good bookkeeping part that that you
need for
> documentation and keeping the basis fro netlist (
what ought to be
> connected with what).
>
> PCB contains stuff that you need. GIMP has no concept
of element.
> You can't just move the resistor pads in GIMP etc.
>
> Above, all GIMP can't keep you in check - shorts and
breaks are made
> easily, once your example contains anything more than
one transistor
> and couple resistors.
>
> With PCB, printing is relatively easy - just export
EPS ina importi in
> Inkscape. This way you can easily do DIY panelization
- import EPS of
> wantd layers, mirror them and arrange as you wish.
>
> Also, GIMP is raster-based. SO, to get deccent
resolution, you
> probably need 1200 dpi. WHich can get really slow,
once you have
> bigger board and more layers.
>
> Really, no reason to torture yourself with GIMP for
this.
>
> Don't know about KiCAD ( never liked it), but
gEDA+PCB+Inkscape is
> golden for this. Plus gerbview to check design before
sending it to
> manuifacturing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 27. 07. 20 05:47, Rob via
wrote:
>> Here's some tidbits to chew on for home brewing
your own PCBs
>> "caveman" style.... without the aid of
>>
>> the complicated CAD....? (C)omputer (A)ided?
(D)esign software.
>>
>> Take this for what its worth for you.....?? I
make no claims to fame
>> here.... just massive success.. again and again
and again... for me
>> and my tinkering with building
>>
>> radios and other electronic toys from scratch
without suffering
>> through the indiginities of breadboard or loose
wires or crazy glue
>> pads failing to work then chasing tail for a
week.
>>
>>
>> It always starts with a schematic.
>>
>> so.....
>>
>> I simply take a picture of the schematic and open
it in GIMP image
>> editer....?? learn here if you don't know it:
>>
>> These images came from :
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> and then simply trace all of the thin lines with
a fat black ink pen
>> tool and
>> add donut holes for all components and draw the
components in red or
>> purple
>> and move things around enough to accomodate
physical parts connections.
>> AND ALWAYS LAY PARTs DOWN.... never have
resistors or diodes standing
>> on one end.
>>
>> Laying parts down uses more space but it makes it
much easier for
>> kids and newbies to
>> succesfully build a radio.
>> AND
>> laying parts down create HUGE pathways on the
copper side of the
>> board to accomodate
>> trace routing without being screwed by tight
spacing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> and then I remove everything ... just erase all
the text and purple
>> and have toner transfer ready artwork.
>>
>>
>> This is one the the most simple examples I share
because it is a $5
>> short wave receiver
>>
>> that has been made all over the world... because
it is so simple to
>> reproduce succesfully.
>>
>> I few modifications later....?????? and final
outcome was this:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 07/26/2020 10:24 PM, Charlie Hansen wrote:
>>> And then there's fun of solving a "puzzle"
with the routing of the
>>> traces, avoiding "ground loops", noisy power
traces, etc etc. I too
>>> haven't used Eagle etc, but I DO like to use
a simple CAD like
>>> Micrographics Designer V3x
>>> Charlie
>>>
>>> ??? And then
>>>
>>> ??? there's all sorts of CAD programmer to
help you... but you may not
>>> ??? need CAD.
>>>
>>> ??? I have made more than 100 PCBs and I have
not yet used ANY EAGLE
>>> ??? or any other CAD program.
>>>
>>>
>>> ??? Rob
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ??? On 07/25/2020 09:30 PM, Harvey White
wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ??? Nope.? Don't do videos.
>>>>
>>>> ??? Now questions:
>>>>
>>>> ??? 1) designing what?? Digital??
Analog?? RF?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 2) what level of complexity?? Do you
need 1 layer, 2 layer, or 4
>>>> ??? layer boards?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these
boards yourself? (it makes a
>>>> ??? difference in how you design them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 4) how big are they (can make a
difference in either cost/who
>>>> ??? makes it or design/what program you
use)?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 5) what program do you use?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 6) have you any experience with PC
board design?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 7) what level of hardware debug do
you want to put into the
>>>> ??? boards (test points?? test pads??
logic analyzer breakouts?
>>>> ??? ground posts?)
>>>>
>>>> ??? 8) what kind of facilities do you
have to make PC boards?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 9) have you done any of this before?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 10) what level (roughly) in
electronics design are you
>>>> ??? comfortable with?? beginner?? what?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? All of these things have a bearing on
*how* you design something,
>>>> ??? what design you come up with, how
many copies you'll need before
>>>> ??? you get one that works (know that
one.....), and whether or not
>>>> ??? you can make the board yourself.
>>>>
>>>> ??? I know this may sound complicated,
but answers to some of these
>>>> ??? help others to gauge where you are in
experience, and what you
>>>> ??? need to know (IMHO, of course).
>>>>
>>>> ??? For me: (roughly)
>>>>
>>>> ??? 1) designing:? Digital,? Analog.?
Have done 100 pin flatpacks.
>>>> ??? (self built), do 144 pin flatpacks
when someone else builds them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 2) I do double sided, plated through
holes, silk screen, but
>>>> ??? that's not me making them.? Have done
toner transfer, 10 mil
>>>> ??? trace, 10 mil spacing, double sided,
wire stitch top and bottom
>>>> ??? layers, tin/lead plated boards.
>>>>
>>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these
boards yourself? (it makes a
>>>> ??? difference in how you design them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 4) no bigger than 100 cm * 100 cm
because of the board house
>>>> ??? limitations for cheap?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 5) EAGLE 7.7, hobby (6 x 4 inch)
license, can't sell the boards.?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 6) by this time?? a fair amount, can
always learn more
>>>>
>>>> ??? 7) logic analyzer breakouts for
digital, pin headers for some
>>>> ??? signals, some test pads, ground
connectors, monitor leds
>>>>
>>>> ??? 8) used to make double sided boards,
not plated through, designs
>>>> ??? got too complicated for me to make
>>>>
>>>> ??? 9) lots
>>>>
>>>> ??? 10) not beginner in digital, some
analog, power supply
>>>>
>>>> ??? Other people will have different
opinions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? Harvey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? On 7/12/2020 12:59 AM, davethetechman
via
wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Hi, does anyone have any personal
videos of designing with their
>>>>> ??? own personal tips and hacks?
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Recently new to this.
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Thanks
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
|
Sparing the details.....? I have retina problems
and its not macular degeneration.
I just describe it as something like macular degeneration
because most people have heard of macular degeneration.
MORE IMPORTANTLY...............
I share with the group how to HOME BREW PCBs
using the most simple of tooling which works out for
us old timers who have vision troubles.
?
On 07/27/2020 07:10 AM, Dave Daniel
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I have Wet Macular Degeneration in one eye. Wet
Macular Degeneration is a condition that results from blood
vessels growing up through the eye’s epithelial layer and
lifting the retina off of the epithelial layer, thus starving
the retinal cells of the ability to regenerate. The condition
may be controlled but not cured by injecting ?a medecine called
Eyelea into to eyeball every few weeks. The medecine inhibits
the growth of the blood vessels. The condition naturally gets
worse, slowly, over time and is irreversible. Eventually (so I’m
told) one loses one’s eyesight in the affected eye. My eyesight
in the affected eye had gone from 20/25 to 20/100 over the past
seven years.
Dry Macular Degeneration is a different condition
for which, at present, there is no treatment.
DaveD
Wish Rob? a stable and fast recovery.
Wish you to recover soober Rob
Regards
Sarma? vu3zmv
My
vision is impaired.
I have something like macular degeneration messed up
retinas and
everything looks crushed and twisted to me so
I need bigger, much bigger , everything .......when I
tinker with
electronics.
and
all of the CAD interfaces have tiny text on racks of
tools and buttons
onscreen
and
all of the features and settings are easily trashed by
me tripping
accidentally over them
so
I step back and declare thats not my tool set and
stick "caveman" simple
... paint on the wall.....
and get the desired results.
and
I share these tidbits with you all because HOME BREW
PCBS is really at
all levels.....?? from the simple hand drawn sharpie
on PCB to the
advanced CAD
programs with detailed granularity tracking component
libraries.
There is something for everybody here.
I learned how to make GERBER files last winter.
Neat stuff.
Have fun.
I am.
On 07/27/2020 03:28 AM, brane212 wrote:
> Don0t see the point.
>
> gEDA + PCB is not complicated. Just the opposite.
>
> Whatever the elarnign curve is, it affects stuff
you need to knwow
> anyway. YOu can use PCB directly, but I find it
to be a pain without
> schematic.
>
> Only slightly cryptic thing is to learn to define
an element.
> BFew tidbits aside, it's not that different from
drawqing a schematic.
>
>
> Schematic is a good bookkeeping part that that
you need for
> documentation and keeping the basis fro netlist (
what ought to be
> connected with what).
>
> PCB contains stuff that you need. GIMP has no
concept of element.
> You can't just move the resistor pads in GIMP
etc.
>
> Above, all GIMP can't keep you in check - shorts
and breaks are made
> easily, once your example contains anything more
than one transistor
> and couple resistors.
>
> With PCB, printing is relatively easy - just
export EPS ina importi in
> Inkscape. This way you can easily do DIY
panelization - import EPS of
> wantd layers, mirror them and arrange as you
wish.
>
> Also, GIMP is raster-based. SO, to get deccent
resolution, you
> probably need 1200 dpi. WHich can get really
slow, once you have
> bigger board and more layers.
>
> Really, no reason to torture yourself with GIMP
for this.
>
> Don't know about KiCAD ( never liked it), but
gEDA+PCB+Inkscape is
> golden for this. Plus gerbview to check design
before sending it to
> manuifacturing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 27. 07. 20 05:47, Rob via
wrote:
>> Here's some tidbits to chew on for home
brewing your own PCBs
>> "caveman" style.... without the aid of
>>
>> the complicated CAD....? (C)omputer (A)ided?
(D)esign software.
>>
>> Take this for what its worth for you.....?? I
make no claims to fame
>> here.... just massive success.. again and
again and again... for me
>> and my tinkering with building
>>
>> radios and other electronic toys from scratch
without suffering
>> through the indiginities of breadboard or
loose wires or crazy glue
>> pads failing to work then chasing tail for a
week.
>>
>>
>> It always starts with a schematic.
>>
>> so.....
>>
>> I simply take a picture of the schematic and
open it in GIMP image
>> editer....?? learn here if you don't know it:
>>
>> These images came from :
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> and then simply trace all of the thin lines
with a fat black ink pen
>> tool and
>> add donut holes for all components and draw
the components in red or
>> purple
>> and move things around enough to accomodate
physical parts connections.
>> AND ALWAYS LAY PARTs DOWN.... never have
resistors or diodes standing
>> on one end.
>>
>> Laying parts down uses more space but it
makes it much easier for
>> kids and newbies to
>> succesfully build a radio.
>> AND
>> laying parts down create HUGE pathways on the
copper side of the
>> board to accomodate
>> trace routing without being screwed by tight
spacing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> and then I remove everything ... just erase
all the text and purple
>> and have toner transfer ready artwork.
>>
>>
>> This is one the the most simple examples I
share because it is a $5
>> short wave receiver
>>
>> that has been made all over the world...
because it is so simple to
>> reproduce succesfully.
>>
>> I few modifications later....?????? and final
outcome was this:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 07/26/2020 10:24 PM, Charlie Hansen wrote:
>>> And then there's fun of solving a
"puzzle" with the routing of the
>>> traces, avoiding "ground loops", noisy
power traces, etc etc. I too
>>> haven't used Eagle etc, but I DO like to
use a simple CAD like
>>> Micrographics Designer V3x
>>> Charlie
>>>
>>> ??? And then
>>>
>>> ??? there's all sorts of CAD programmer
to help you... but you may not
>>> ??? need CAD.
>>>
>>> ??? I have made more than 100 PCBs and I
have not yet used ANY EAGLE
>>> ??? or any other CAD program.
>>>
>>>
>>> ??? Rob
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ??? On 07/25/2020 09:30 PM, Harvey White
wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ??? Nope.? Don't do videos.
>>>>
>>>> ??? Now questions:
>>>>
>>>> ??? 1) designing what?? Digital??
Analog?? RF?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 2) what level of complexity?? Do
you need 1 layer, 2 layer, or 4
>>>> ??? layer boards?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these
boards yourself? (it makes a
>>>> ??? difference in how you design
them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 4) how big are they (can make a
difference in either cost/who
>>>> ??? makes it or design/what program
you use)?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 5) what program do you use?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 6) have you any experience with
PC board design?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 7) what level of hardware debug
do you want to put into the
>>>> ??? boards (test points?? test pads??
logic analyzer breakouts?
>>>> ??? ground posts?)
>>>>
>>>> ??? 8) what kind of facilities do you
have to make PC boards?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 9) have you done any of this
before?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 10) what level (roughly) in
electronics design are you
>>>> ??? comfortable with?? beginner??
what?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? All of these things have a
bearing on *how* you design something,
>>>> ??? what design you come up with, how
many copies you'll need before
>>>> ??? you get one that works (know that
one.....), and whether or not
>>>> ??? you can make the board yourself.
>>>>
>>>> ??? I know this may sound
complicated, but answers to some of these
>>>> ??? help others to gauge where you
are in experience, and what you
>>>> ??? need to know (IMHO, of course).
>>>>
>>>> ??? For me: (roughly)
>>>>
>>>> ??? 1) designing:? Digital,? Analog.?
Have done 100 pin flatpacks.
>>>> ??? (self built), do 144 pin
flatpacks when someone else builds them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 2) I do double sided, plated
through holes, silk screen, but
>>>> ??? that's not me making them.? Have
done toner transfer, 10 mil
>>>> ??? trace, 10 mil spacing, double
sided, wire stitch top and bottom
>>>> ??? layers, tin/lead plated boards.
>>>>
>>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these
boards yourself? (it makes a
>>>> ??? difference in how you design
them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 4) no bigger than 100 cm * 100 cm
because of the board house
>>>> ??? limitations for cheap?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 5) EAGLE 7.7, hobby (6 x 4 inch)
license, can't sell the boards.?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 6) by this time?? a fair amount,
can always learn more
>>>>
>>>> ??? 7) logic analyzer breakouts for
digital, pin headers for some
>>>> ??? signals, some test pads, ground
connectors, monitor leds
>>>>
>>>> ??? 8) used to make double sided
boards, not plated through, designs
>>>> ??? got too complicated for me to
make
>>>>
>>>> ??? 9) lots
>>>>
>>>> ??? 10) not beginner in digital, some
analog, power supply
>>>>
>>>> ??? Other people will have different
opinions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? Harvey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? On 7/12/2020 12:59 AM,
davethetechman via
wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Hi, does anyone have any
personal videos of designing with their
>>>>> ??? own personal tips and hacks?
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Recently new to this.
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Thanks
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
|
Good news - you need mushrooms daily to return vision to normal ?
;o)
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 27. 07. 20 18:52, Rob via groups.io wrote: Thanks Sarma....
but no recovery.... vision scrambled 19 years ago and I have not driven a car in 19 years.
But its not so bad. Everybody looks like a Picasso painting to me.
Good and bad.
Pretty girls look like monsters....? bent nose.... ears.....
BUT
ugly girls look like monsters to me..........
so everybody? looks the same to me.
On 07/27/2020 05:07 AM, MVS Sarma wrote:
Wish Rob? a stable and fast recovery.
On Mon, 27 Jul 2020, 1:52 pm MVS Sarma via groups.io <>, <mvssarma@... <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Wish you to recover soober Rob
Regards
Sarma? vu3zmv
On Mon, 27 Jul 2020, 1:13 pm Rob via groups.io <>,
<roomberg@... <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
My vision is impaired.
I have something like macular degeneration messed up retinas and
everything looks crushed and twisted to me so
I need bigger, much bigger , everything .......when I tinker with
electronics.
and
all of the CAD interfaces have tiny text on racks of tools and
buttons
onscreen
and
all of the features and settings are easily trashed by me
tripping
accidentally over them
so
I step back and declare thats not my tool set and stick
"caveman" simple
... paint on the wall.....
and get the desired results.
and
I share these tidbits with you all because HOME BREW PCBS is
really at
all levels.....?? from the simple hand drawn sharpie on PCB to
the
advanced CAD
programs with detailed granularity tracking component libraries.
There is something for everybody here.
I learned how to make GERBER files last winter.
Neat stuff.
Have fun.
I am.
On 07/27/2020 03:28 AM, brane212 wrote:
> Don0t see the point.
>
> gEDA + PCB is not complicated. Just the opposite.
>
> Whatever the elarnign curve is, it affects stuff you need to
knwow
> anyway. YOu can use PCB directly, but I find it to be a pain
without
> schematic.
>
> Only slightly cryptic thing is to learn to define an element.
> BFew tidbits aside, it's not that different from drawqing a
schematic.
>
>
> Schematic is a good bookkeeping part that that you need for
> documentation and keeping the basis fro netlist ( what ought
to be
> connected with what).
>
> PCB contains stuff that you need. GIMP has no concept of
element.
> You can't just move the resistor pads in GIMP etc.
>
> Above, all GIMP can't keep you in check - shorts and breaks
are made
> easily, once your example contains anything more than one
transistor
> and couple resistors.
>
> With PCB, printing is relatively easy - just export EPS ina
importi in
> Inkscape. This way you can easily do DIY panelization -
import EPS of
> wantd layers, mirror them and arrange as you wish.
>
> Also, GIMP is raster-based. SO, to get deccent resolution, you
> probably need 1200 dpi. WHich can get really slow, once you
have
> bigger board and more layers.
>
> Really, no reason to torture yourself with GIMP for this.
>
> Don't know about KiCAD ( never liked it), but
gEDA+PCB+Inkscape is
> golden for this. Plus gerbview to check design before
sending it to
> manuifacturing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 27. 07. 20 05:47, Rob via groups.io <> wrote:
>> Here's some tidbits to chew on for home brewing your own PCBs
>> "caveman" style.... without the aid of
>>
>> the complicated CAD....? (C)omputer (A)ided (D)esign software.
>>
>> Take this for what its worth for you.....?? I make no
claims to fame
>> here.... just massive success.. again and again and
again... for me
>> and my tinkering with building
>>
>> radios and other electronic toys from scratch without
suffering
>> through the indiginities of breadboard or loose wires or
crazy glue
>> pads failing to work then chasing tail for a week.
>>
>>
>> It always starts with a schematic.
>>
>> so.....
>>
>> I simply take a picture of the schematic and open it in
GIMP image
>> editer....?? learn here if you don't know it:
>>
>> These images came from :
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> and then simply trace all of the thin lines with a fat
black ink pen
>> tool and
>> add donut holes for all components and draw the components
in red or
>> purple
>> and move things around enough to accomodate physical parts
connections.
>> AND ALWAYS LAY PARTs DOWN.... never have resistors or
diodes standing
>> on one end.
>>
>> Laying parts down uses more space but it makes it much
easier for
>> kids and newbies to
>> succesfully build a radio.
>> AND
>> laying parts down create HUGE pathways on the copper side
of the
>> board to accomodate
>> trace routing without being screwed by tight spacing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> and then I remove everything ... just erase all the text
and purple
>> and have toner transfer ready artwork.
>>
>>
>> This is one the the most simple examples I share because it
is a $5
>> short wave receiver
>>
>> that has been made all over the world... because it is so
simple to
>> reproduce succesfully.
>>
>> I few modifications later....?????? and final outcome was this:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 07/26/2020 10:24 PM, Charlie Hansen wrote:
>>> And then there's fun of solving a "puzzle" with the
routing of the
>>> traces, avoiding "ground loops", noisy power traces, etc
etc. I too
>>> haven't used Eagle etc, but I DO like to use a simple CAD like
>>> Micrographics Designer V3x
>>> Charlie
>>>
>>> ??? And then
>>>
>>> ??? there's all sorts of CAD programmer to help you... but
you may not
>>> ??? need CAD.
>>>
>>> ??? I have made more than 100 PCBs and I have not yet used
ANY EAGLE
>>> ??? or any other CAD program.
>>>
>>>
>>> ??? Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ??? On 07/25/2020 09:30 PM, Harvey White wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ??? Nope.? Don't do videos.
>>>>
>>>> ??? Now questions:
>>>>
>>>> ??? 1) designing what?? Digital? Analog?? RF?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 2) what level of complexity?? Do you need 1 layer, 2
layer, or 4
>>>> ??? layer boards?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself?
(it makes a
>>>> ??? difference in how you design them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 4) how big are they (can make a difference in either
cost/who
>>>> ??? makes it or design/what program you use)?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 5) what program do you use?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 6) have you any experience with PC board design?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 7) what level of hardware debug do you want to put
into the
>>>> ??? boards (test points?? test pads? logic analyzer
breakouts?
>>>> ??? ground posts?)
>>>>
>>>> ??? 8) what kind of facilities do you have to make PC boards?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 9) have you done any of this before?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 10) what level (roughly) in electronics design are you
>>>> ??? comfortable with?? beginner?? what?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? All of these things have a bearing on *how* you
design something,
>>>> ??? what design you come up with, how many copies you'll
need before
>>>> ??? you get one that works (know that one.....), and
whether or not
>>>> ??? you can make the board yourself.
>>>>
>>>> ??? I know this may sound complicated, but answers to
some of these
>>>> ??? help others to gauge where you are in experience, and
what you
>>>> ??? need to know (IMHO, of course).
>>>>
>>>> ??? For me: (roughly)
>>>>
>>>> ??? 1) designing:? Digital,? Analog. Have done 100 pin
flatpacks.
>>>> ??? (self built), do 144 pin flatpacks when someone else
builds them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 2) I do double sided, plated through holes, silk
screen, but
>>>> ??? that's not me making them.? Have done toner transfer,
10 mil
>>>> ??? trace, 10 mil spacing, double sided, wire stitch top
and bottom
>>>> ??? layers, tin/lead plated boards.
>>>>
>>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself?
(it makes a
>>>> ??? difference in how you design them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 4) no bigger than 100 cm * 100 cm because of the
board house
>>>> ??? limitations for cheap?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 5) EAGLE 7.7, hobby (6 x 4 inch) license, can't sell
the boards.?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 6) by this time?? a fair amount, can always learn more
>>>>
>>>> ??? 7) logic analyzer breakouts for digital, pin headers
for some
>>>> ??? signals, some test pads, ground connectors, monitor leds
>>>>
>>>> ??? 8) used to make double sided boards, not plated
through, designs
>>>> ??? got too complicated for me to make
>>>>
>>>> ??? 9) lots
>>>>
>>>> ??? 10) not beginner in digital, some analog, power supply
>>>>
>>>> ??? Other people will have different opinions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? Harvey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? On 7/12/2020 12:59 AM, davethetechman via groups.io
<> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Hi, does anyone have any personal videos of
designing with their
>>>>> ??? own personal tips and hacks?
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Recently new to this.
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Thanks
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
Branko Badrljica
Chief Editor/glavni urednik
g. +386 (0)40/423-303 ? t. +386 (0)59/156-643
*Medija kit (predstavitev in cenik)
<>*
*Arhiv Avtomatike+E
<>* *Revija
Avtomatika+E Online <>*
*Media kit (intro & pricelist)
<>*
*?ARCHIVE Avtomatika+E
<>*
*?Avtomatika+E Online <>*
<>
S5TEHNIKA.net d.o.o.
SOSTRSKA CESTA 43C
1261 Ljubljana Dobrunje
ID za DDV: SI81396236
|
BTW, out of curiosity, is that edge & shape distortion that you have consistent ?
IOW, on those girls=monsters example, does each "monster" change its shape with time/angle/distance/light intensity/light color/surroundigs,
or is each "monster" always the same ?
BTW2:
Good news: Your life is now a Star Trek.
Bad news: You are not Captain Kirk or Commander Riker.
;o)
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 27. 07. 20 18:52, Rob via groups.io wrote: Thanks Sarma....
but no recovery.... vision scrambled 19 years ago and I have not driven a car in 19 years.
But its not so bad. Everybody looks like a Picasso painting to me.
Good and bad.
Pretty girls look like monsters....? bent nose.... ears.....
BUT
ugly girls look like monsters to me..........
so everybody? looks the same to me.
On 07/27/2020 05:07 AM, MVS Sarma wrote:
Wish Rob? a stable and fast recovery.
On Mon, 27 Jul 2020, 1:52 pm MVS Sarma via groups.io <>, <mvssarma@... <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Wish you to recover soober Rob
Regards
Sarma? vu3zmv
On Mon, 27 Jul 2020, 1:13 pm Rob via groups.io <>,
<roomberg@... <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
My vision is impaired.
I have something like macular degeneration messed up retinas and
everything looks crushed and twisted to me so
I need bigger, much bigger , everything .......when I tinker with
electronics.
and
all of the CAD interfaces have tiny text on racks of tools and
buttons
onscreen
and
all of the features and settings are easily trashed by me
tripping
accidentally over them
so
I step back and declare thats not my tool set and stick
"caveman" simple
... paint on the wall.....
and get the desired results.
and
I share these tidbits with you all because HOME BREW PCBS is
really at
all levels.....?? from the simple hand drawn sharpie on PCB to
the
advanced CAD
programs with detailed granularity tracking component libraries.
There is something for everybody here.
I learned how to make GERBER files last winter.
Neat stuff.
Have fun.
I am.
On 07/27/2020 03:28 AM, brane212 wrote:
> Don0t see the point.
>
> gEDA + PCB is not complicated. Just the opposite.
>
> Whatever the elarnign curve is, it affects stuff you need to
knwow
> anyway. YOu can use PCB directly, but I find it to be a pain
without
> schematic.
>
> Only slightly cryptic thing is to learn to define an element.
> BFew tidbits aside, it's not that different from drawqing a
schematic.
>
>
> Schematic is a good bookkeeping part that that you need for
> documentation and keeping the basis fro netlist ( what ought
to be
> connected with what).
>
> PCB contains stuff that you need. GIMP has no concept of
element.
> You can't just move the resistor pads in GIMP etc.
>
> Above, all GIMP can't keep you in check - shorts and breaks
are made
> easily, once your example contains anything more than one
transistor
> and couple resistors.
>
> With PCB, printing is relatively easy - just export EPS ina
importi in
> Inkscape. This way you can easily do DIY panelization -
import EPS of
> wantd layers, mirror them and arrange as you wish.
>
> Also, GIMP is raster-based. SO, to get deccent resolution, you
> probably need 1200 dpi. WHich can get really slow, once you
have
> bigger board and more layers.
>
> Really, no reason to torture yourself with GIMP for this.
>
> Don't know about KiCAD ( never liked it), but
gEDA+PCB+Inkscape is
> golden for this. Plus gerbview to check design before
sending it to
> manuifacturing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 27. 07. 20 05:47, Rob via groups.io <> wrote:
>> Here's some tidbits to chew on for home brewing your own PCBs
>> "caveman" style.... without the aid of
>>
>> the complicated CAD....? (C)omputer (A)ided (D)esign software.
>>
>> Take this for what its worth for you.....?? I make no
claims to fame
>> here.... just massive success.. again and again and
again... for me
>> and my tinkering with building
>>
>> radios and other electronic toys from scratch without
suffering
>> through the indiginities of breadboard or loose wires or
crazy glue
>> pads failing to work then chasing tail for a week.
>>
>>
>> It always starts with a schematic.
>>
>> so.....
>>
>> I simply take a picture of the schematic and open it in
GIMP image
>> editer....?? learn here if you don't know it:
>>
>> These images came from :
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> and then simply trace all of the thin lines with a fat
black ink pen
>> tool and
>> add donut holes for all components and draw the components
in red or
>> purple
>> and move things around enough to accomodate physical parts
connections.
>> AND ALWAYS LAY PARTs DOWN.... never have resistors or
diodes standing
>> on one end.
>>
>> Laying parts down uses more space but it makes it much
easier for
>> kids and newbies to
>> succesfully build a radio.
>> AND
>> laying parts down create HUGE pathways on the copper side
of the
>> board to accomodate
>> trace routing without being screwed by tight spacing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> and then I remove everything ... just erase all the text
and purple
>> and have toner transfer ready artwork.
>>
>>
>> This is one the the most simple examples I share because it
is a $5
>> short wave receiver
>>
>> that has been made all over the world... because it is so
simple to
>> reproduce succesfully.
>>
>> I few modifications later....?????? and final outcome was this:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 07/26/2020 10:24 PM, Charlie Hansen wrote:
>>> And then there's fun of solving a "puzzle" with the
routing of the
>>> traces, avoiding "ground loops", noisy power traces, etc
etc. I too
>>> haven't used Eagle etc, but I DO like to use a simple CAD like
>>> Micrographics Designer V3x
>>> Charlie
>>>
>>> ??? And then
>>>
>>> ??? there's all sorts of CAD programmer to help you... but
you may not
>>> ??? need CAD.
>>>
>>> ??? I have made more than 100 PCBs and I have not yet used
ANY EAGLE
>>> ??? or any other CAD program.
>>>
>>>
>>> ??? Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ??? On 07/25/2020 09:30 PM, Harvey White wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ??? Nope.? Don't do videos.
>>>>
>>>> ??? Now questions:
>>>>
>>>> ??? 1) designing what?? Digital? Analog?? RF?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 2) what level of complexity?? Do you need 1 layer, 2
layer, or 4
>>>> ??? layer boards?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself?
(it makes a
>>>> ??? difference in how you design them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 4) how big are they (can make a difference in either
cost/who
>>>> ??? makes it or design/what program you use)?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 5) what program do you use?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 6) have you any experience with PC board design?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 7) what level of hardware debug do you want to put
into the
>>>> ??? boards (test points?? test pads? logic analyzer
breakouts?
>>>> ??? ground posts?)
>>>>
>>>> ??? 8) what kind of facilities do you have to make PC boards?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 9) have you done any of this before?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 10) what level (roughly) in electronics design are you
>>>> ??? comfortable with?? beginner?? what?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? All of these things have a bearing on *how* you
design something,
>>>> ??? what design you come up with, how many copies you'll
need before
>>>> ??? you get one that works (know that one.....), and
whether or not
>>>> ??? you can make the board yourself.
>>>>
>>>> ??? I know this may sound complicated, but answers to
some of these
>>>> ??? help others to gauge where you are in experience, and
what you
>>>> ??? need to know (IMHO, of course).
>>>>
>>>> ??? For me: (roughly)
>>>>
>>>> ??? 1) designing:? Digital,? Analog. Have done 100 pin
flatpacks.
>>>> ??? (self built), do 144 pin flatpacks when someone else
builds them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 2) I do double sided, plated through holes, silk
screen, but
>>>> ??? that's not me making them.? Have done toner transfer,
10 mil
>>>> ??? trace, 10 mil spacing, double sided, wire stitch top
and bottom
>>>> ??? layers, tin/lead plated boards.
>>>>
>>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself?
(it makes a
>>>> ??? difference in how you design them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 4) no bigger than 100 cm * 100 cm because of the
board house
>>>> ??? limitations for cheap?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 5) EAGLE 7.7, hobby (6 x 4 inch) license, can't sell
the boards.?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 6) by this time?? a fair amount, can always learn more
>>>>
>>>> ??? 7) logic analyzer breakouts for digital, pin headers
for some
>>>> ??? signals, some test pads, ground connectors, monitor leds
>>>>
>>>> ??? 8) used to make double sided boards, not plated
through, designs
>>>> ??? got too complicated for me to make
>>>>
>>>> ??? 9) lots
>>>>
>>>> ??? 10) not beginner in digital, some analog, power supply
>>>>
>>>> ??? Other people will have different opinions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? Harvey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? On 7/12/2020 12:59 AM, davethetechman via groups.io
<> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Hi, does anyone have any personal videos of
designing with their
>>>>> ??? own personal tips and hacks?
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Recently new to this.
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Thanks
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
Branko Badrljica
Chief Editor/glavni urednik
g. +386 (0)40/423-303 ? t. +386 (0)59/156-643
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ID za DDV: SI81396236
|
really bad news:
You are in the original series and you're wearing a red shirt. You are NOT chief engineer Scott.
Harvey
There are glasses called "systems of sight" that work for macular degeneration, no idea how expensive or how well.? Have to be crafted for each case
H.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 7/27/2020 10:16 PM, brane212 wrote: BTW, out of curiosity, is that edge & shape distortion that you have consistent ?
IOW, on those girls=monsters example, does each "monster" change its shape with time/angle/distance/light intensity/light color/surroundigs,
or is each "monster" always the same ?
BTW2:
Good news:??? Your life is now a Star Trek.
Bad news:???? You are not Captain Kirk or Commander Riker.
;o)
On 27. 07. 20 18:52, Rob via groups.io wrote:
Thanks Sarma....
but no recovery.... vision scrambled 19 years ago and I have not driven a car in 19 years.
But its not so bad. Everybody looks like a Picasso painting to me.
Good and bad.
Pretty girls look like monsters....? bent nose.... ears.....
BUT
ugly girls look like monsters to me..........
so everybody? looks the same to me.
On 07/27/2020 05:07 AM, MVS Sarma wrote:
Wish Rob? a stable and fast recovery.
On Mon, 27 Jul 2020, 1:52 pm MVS Sarma via groups.io <>, <mvssarma@... <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
??? Wish you to recover soober Rob
??? Regards
??? Sarma? vu3zmv
??? On Mon, 27 Jul 2020, 1:13 pm Rob via groups.io <>,
??? <roomberg@... <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
??????? My vision is impaired.
??????? I have something like macular degeneration messed up retinas and
??????? everything looks crushed and twisted to me so
??????? I need bigger, much bigger , everything .......when I tinker with
??????? electronics.
??????? and
??????? all of the CAD interfaces have tiny text on racks of tools and
??????? buttons
??????? onscreen
??????? and
??????? all of the features and settings are easily trashed by me
??????? tripping
??????? accidentally over them
??????? so
??????? I step back and declare thats not my tool set and stick
??????? "caveman" simple
??????? ... paint on the wall.....
??????? and get the desired results.
??????? and
??????? I share these tidbits with you all because HOME BREW PCBS is
??????? really at
??????? all levels.....?? from the simple hand drawn sharpie on PCB to
??????? the
??????? advanced CAD
??????? programs with detailed granularity tracking component libraries.
??????? There is something for everybody here.
??????? I learned how to make GERBER files last winter.
??????? Neat stuff.
??????? Have fun.
??????? I am.
??????? On 07/27/2020 03:28 AM, brane212 wrote:
??????? > Don0t see the point.
??????? >
??????? > gEDA + PCB is not complicated. Just the opposite.
??????? >
??????? > Whatever the elarnign curve is, it affects stuff you need to
??????? knwow
??????? > anyway. YOu can use PCB directly, but I find it to be a pain
??????? without
??????? > schematic.
??????? >
??????? > Only slightly cryptic thing is to learn to define an element.
??????? > BFew tidbits aside, it's not that different from drawqing a
??????? schematic.
??????? >
??????? >
??????? > Schematic is a good bookkeeping part that that you need for
??????? > documentation and keeping the basis fro netlist ( what ought
??????? to be
??????? > connected with what).
??????? >
??????? > PCB contains stuff that you need. GIMP has no concept of
??????? element.
??????? > You can't just move the resistor pads in GIMP etc.
??????? >
??????? > Above, all GIMP can't keep you in check - shorts and breaks
??????? are made
??????? > easily, once your example contains anything more than one
??????? transistor
??????? > and couple resistors.
??????? >
??????? > With PCB, printing is relatively easy - just export EPS ina
??????? importi in
??????? > Inkscape. This way you can easily do DIY panelization -
??????? import EPS of
??????? > wantd layers, mirror them and arrange as you wish.
??????? >
??????? > Also, GIMP is raster-based. SO, to get deccent resolution, you
??????? > probably need 1200 dpi. WHich can get really slow, once you
??????? have
??????? > bigger board and more layers.
??????? >
??????? > Really, no reason to torture yourself with GIMP for this.
??????? >
??????? > Don't know about KiCAD ( never liked it), but
??????? gEDA+PCB+Inkscape is
??????? > golden for this. Plus gerbview to check design before
??????? sending it to
??????? > manuifacturing.
??????? >
??????? >
??????? >
??????? >
??????? >
??????? >
??????? >
??????? > On 27. 07. 20 05:47, Rob via groups.io <> wrote:
??????? >> Here's some tidbits to chew on for home brewing your own PCBs
??????? >> "caveman" style.... without the aid of
??????? >>
??????? >> the complicated CAD....? (C)omputer (A)ided (D)esign software.
??????? >>
??????? >> Take this for what its worth for you.....?? I make no
??????? claims to fame
??????? >> here.... just massive success.. again and again and
??????? again... for me
??????? >> and my tinkering with building
??????? >>
??????? >> radios and other electronic toys from scratch without
??????? suffering
??????? >> through the indiginities of breadboard or loose wires or
??????? crazy glue
??????? >> pads failing to work then chasing tail for a week.
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >> It always starts with a schematic.
??????? >>
??????? >> so.....
??????? >>
??????? >> I simply take a picture of the schematic and open it in
??????? GIMP image
??????? >> editer....?? learn here if you don't know it:
???????
??????? >>
??????? >> These images came from :
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >> and then simply trace all of the thin lines with a fat
??????? black ink pen
??????? >> tool and
??????? >> add donut holes for all components and draw the components
??????? in red or
??????? >> purple
??????? >> and move things around enough to accomodate physical parts
??????? connections.
??????? >> AND ALWAYS LAY PARTs DOWN.... never have resistors or
??????? diodes standing
??????? >> on one end.
??????? >>
??????? >> Laying parts down uses more space but it makes it much
??????? easier for
??????? >> kids and newbies to
??????? >> succesfully build a radio.
??????? >> AND
??????? >> laying parts down create HUGE pathways on the copper side
??????? of the
??????? >> board to accomodate
??????? >> trace routing without being screwed by tight spacing.
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >> and then I remove everything ... just erase all the text
??????? and purple
??????? >> and have toner transfer ready artwork.
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >> This is one the the most simple examples I share because it
??????? is a $5
??????? >> short wave receiver
??????? >>
??????? >> that has been made all over the world... because it is so
??????? simple to
??????? >> reproduce succesfully.
??????? >>
??????? >> I few modifications later....?????? and final outcome was this:
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >> On 07/26/2020 10:24 PM, Charlie Hansen wrote:
??????? >>> And then there's fun of solving a "puzzle" with the
??????? routing of the
??????? >>> traces, avoiding "ground loops", noisy power traces, etc
??????? etc. I too
??????? >>> haven't used Eagle etc, but I DO like to use a simple CAD like
??????? >>> Micrographics Designer V3x
??????? >>> Charlie
??????? >>>
??????? >>> ??? And then
??????? >>>
??????? >>> ??? there's all sorts of CAD programmer to help you... but
??????? you may not
??????? >>> ??? need CAD.
??????? >>>
??????? >>> ??? I have made more than 100 PCBs and I have not yet used
??????? ANY EAGLE
??????? >>> ??? or any other CAD program.
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>> ??? Rob
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>> ??? On 07/25/2020 09:30 PM, Harvey White wrote:
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? Nope.? Don't do videos.
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? Now questions:
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 1) designing what?? Digital? Analog?? RF?
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 2) what level of complexity?? Do you need 1 layer, 2
??????? layer, or 4
??????? >>>> ??? layer boards?
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself?
??????? (it makes a
??????? >>>> ??? difference in how you design them).
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 4) how big are they (can make a difference in either
??????? cost/who
??????? >>>> ??? makes it or design/what program you use)?
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 5) what program do you use?
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 6) have you any experience with PC board design?
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 7) what level of hardware debug do you want to put
??????? into the
??????? >>>> ??? boards (test points?? test pads? logic analyzer
??????? breakouts?
??????? >>>> ??? ground posts?)
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 8) what kind of facilities do you have to make PC boards?
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 9) have you done any of this before?
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 10) what level (roughly) in electronics design are you
??????? >>>> ??? comfortable with?? beginner? what?
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? All of these things have a bearing on *how* you
??????? design something,
??????? >>>> ??? what design you come up with, how many copies you'll
??????? need before
??????? >>>> ??? you get one that works (know that one.....), and
??????? whether or not
??????? >>>> ??? you can make the board yourself.
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? I know this may sound complicated, but answers to
??????? some of these
??????? >>>> ??? help others to gauge where you are in experience, and
??????? what you
??????? >>>> ??? need to know (IMHO, of course).
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? For me: (roughly)
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 1) designing:? Digital,? Analog. Have done 100 pin
??????? flatpacks.
??????? >>>> ??? (self built), do 144 pin flatpacks when someone else
??????? builds them).
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 2) I do double sided, plated through holes, silk
??????? screen, but
??????? >>>> ??? that's not me making them.? Have done toner transfer,
??????? 10 mil
??????? >>>> ??? trace, 10 mil spacing, double sided, wire stitch top
??????? and bottom
??????? >>>> ??? layers, tin/lead plated boards.
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself?
??????? (it makes a
??????? >>>> ??? difference in how you design them).
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 4) no bigger than 100 cm * 100 cm because of the
??????? board house
??????? >>>> ??? limitations for cheap?
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 5) EAGLE 7.7, hobby (6 x 4 inch) license, can't sell
??????? the boards.?
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 6) by this time?? a fair amount, can always learn more
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 7) logic analyzer breakouts for digital, pin headers
??????? for some
??????? >>>> ??? signals, some test pads, ground connectors, monitor leds
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 8) used to make double sided boards, not plated
??????? through, designs
??????? >>>> ??? got too complicated for me to make
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 9) lots
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 10) not beginner in digital, some analog, power supply
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? Other people will have different opinions.
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? Harvey
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? On 7/12/2020 12:59 AM, davethetechman via groups.io
??????? <> wrote:
??????? >>>>>
??????? >>>>> ??? Hi, does anyone have any personal videos of
??????? designing with their
??????? >>>>> ??? own personal tips and hacks?
??????? >>>>>
??????? >>>>> ??? Recently new to this.
??????? >>>>>
??????? >>>>> ??? Thanks
??????? >>>>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >
??????? >
??????? >
|
Mushrooms might help.
Its a light issue.
The more light... the more the distortion.
On white paper .... white screen..black text.....the letters look
like PAC MAN bit pieces out of the letters.
When it first started I thought my hippie teenage kids slipped me
acid.
I saw what looked like a light pole floating in free air
space....
so I played with an image to show my doctors what it looks like
to me.
Funny thing was when my doctor told me the good news was my kids
did not slip me acid....
and I replied... "thats not good news..... acid wears off... I
went to high school in the 70s."
On 07/27/2020 10:16 PM, brane212 wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
BTW,
out of curiosity, is that edge & shape distortion that you
have consistent ?
IOW, on those girls=monsters example, does each "monster" change
its shape with time/angle/distance/light intensity/light
color/surroundigs,
or is each "monster" always the same ?
BTW2:
Good news:??? Your life is now a Star Trek.
Bad news:???? You are not Captain Kirk or Commander Riker.
;o)
Good news - you need mushrooms daily to return vision to normal ?
;o)
|
Steven Greenfield AE7HD