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Re: Proxxon TBM115 on it's way
开云体育Yes, when I was looking at KiCad I found this: But it looks like a research project to install. :) But someone here running Windows needs to try it and tell us how to get'r done. :) Thanks On 3/6/2019 3:38 PM, dale.chatham
wrote:
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Re: Etchants and rust
On 07/03/19 03:14, Dave wrote:
On 3/6/2019 9:34 AM, russell shaw wrote:...On 07/03/19 02:13, Dave wrote:Russel, Russel,It will be ok outside. Getting etchant on jeans will cause holes to appear after a wash, so don't be sloppy. Have clean water nearby if an eyewash is needed. Don't suck the stuff through a tube or the calcium on your teeth will dissolve. |
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Re: Bubble Tank DIY Plans
开云体育Sent about 2 hours ago.? Did you receive it? ? J ? From:
[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jim Bart ? Could you email the file to me? Bartster10@... ? On Wed, Mar
6, 2019 at 4:43 PM
Paul Galarneau via Groups.Io <pgsoft51=[email protected]>
wrote:
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Re: Bubble Tank DIY Plans
Could you email the file to me? Bartster10@... On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 4:43 PM Paul Galarneau via Groups.Io <pgsoft51=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: Bubble Tank DIY Plans
开云体育After I logged in, I could see the file.? I even downloaded it to my computer and watched it, no problem.? If there is a place I can put it for you, let me know.? I still have it here.? 28MB. ?I hope it’s ok with the owner… ? ? J?J ? ? ? ? From:
[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jim Bart ? More than poor programming, Dropbox can only be used on your account.? The basic (free) does not allow a person to goto another link and look at the bubble tank I get error 404. I am logged in and the file is not there unless I am doing something wrong... ? On Wed, Mar
6, 2019 at 7:39 AM
Paul Galarneau via Groups.Io <pgsoft51=[email protected]>
wrote:
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Re: Etchants and rust
On Wed, 6 Mar 2019 12:33:13 -0600, you wrote:
Thanks for the info Harvey. I have a new question. What is the closestThere's two limits, design and process. Process limits simply say that you can't physically make the board like that. Either too close to the edge, or holes too small, or pads/traces too small. Those limits vary with respect to the process, but typically 0.030 or 0.060 are decent limits (roughly 1/16 or 1/32) for pad to pad, and spacing betwen tracks, but that's process.... Now, voltage wise, that determines the minimum track spacing as well. I'm not sure of the limits here, you'd have to look that up. Ditto with track current carrying capacity for width (varies also with respect to the copper foil thickness). You also want to allow for heat dissipation for things like resistors. Typical power resistors are often at the end of longer leads and spaced off the boards. Seen scorched boards because of resistors. Now on the other hand, those resistor long leads will fail any sort of vibration test. (military stuff used clamps for bulky parts like that). So for home analog stuff, not necessarily digital, you want a small enough trace that you can put one between the pads of a DIP (more requires finer stuff than can be happily done at home). WIthout an autorouter (which is of limited use for home built boards), I tend to use the airwires (unrouted traces) to determine which parts need to be near which parts for shortest wire runs, then try to manually route the shortest wires. It's a learning process... Once you go to surface mount parts, the design rules start to change, but I'm not sure where you are on this design. Harvey
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Re: Proxxon TBM115 on it's way
开云体育Auto place and route is KiCAD's Achilles heel, but there is an external program, isnt there? Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Tablet -------- Original message -------- From: Harvey White <madyn@...> Date: 3/6/19 3:31 PM (GMT-06:00) Subject: Re: [homebrewpcbs] Proxxon TBM115 on it's way >Yes, DipTrace is restricted. DesignSparkPCB is installed on your pc but >opens up a start page every time you open the program. You can just >close it after you see the latest news form them and go on with your >work. All files are save to your pc and not the cloud. Eagle tried something like that on a version I didn't use.? You had to be authenticated each time you used the program.? I'm sometimes where I have no internet (<gasp>!) so I avoid that kind of situation. Kicad has no limitations that way.? Eagle has a student version (the 4x6 inch no profit) and a hobby version (3x4 no profit) as well as subscription models for the profit versions (all sizes). Since I personally dislike (small word) the subscription model, I never upgraded past 7.x. My license is with the old owners (not autodesk), and is not subject to subscription.? Now if KiCad had a good autorouter integrated into it... (and I have tried), well..... Harvey > >On 3/5/2019 7:09 PM, Harvey White wrote: >> Oh, and last I looked, Diptrace does have a free version, with limits, >> though.? KiCad does not. >> >> Don't know much abut design spark, did look through the website.? It >> may be web based, it may not be.? Web based doesn't work for me at >> all, not where I can automatically get a WIFI connection. >> >> >> >> Harvey > > > |
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Re: Proxxon TBM115 on it's way
On Wed, 6 Mar 2019 09:38:35 -0600, you wrote:
Yes, DipTrace is restricted. DesignSparkPCB is installed on your pc but Eagle tried something like that on a version I didn't use. You had to be authenticated each time you used the program. I'm sometimes where I have no internet (<gasp>!) so I avoid that kind of situation. Kicad has no limitations that way. Eagle has a student version (the 4x6 inch no profit) and a hobby version (3x4 no profit) as well as subscription models for the profit versions (all sizes). Since I personally dislike (small word) the subscription model, I never upgraded past 7.x. My license is with the old owners (not autodesk), and is not subject to subscription. Now if KiCad had a good autorouter integrated into it... (and I have tried), well..... Harvey
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Re: Bubble Tank DIY Plans
More than poor programming, Dropbox can only be used on your account.? The basic (free) does not allow a person to goto another link and look at the bubble tank. I get error 404. I am logged in and the file is not there unless I am doing something wrong... On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 7:39 AM Paul Galarneau via Groups.Io <pgsoft51=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: Etchants and rust
Thanks for the info Harvey. I have a new question. What is the closest pads should be to each other? And if you are making a bunch of small boards and transferring them to copper for etching what is the minimal space between designs? In other words, what should the remaining border width be? Seems I may have placed my circuits too close to the center and have to shrink the width a little.
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Thanks On 3/6/2019 10:52 AM, Harvey White wrote:
On Wed, 6 Mar 2019 10:14:29 -0600, you wrote: |
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Re: Etchants and rust
On Wed, 6 Mar 2019 10:14:29 -0600, you wrote:
<snip> ? Ok, good info. So if I do my etching under my 24x24x14 carportIn a sense, there's really not a "design stuff to etch", but there are things to consider in terms of process. If you're using toner transfer, and especially just starting, I'd suggest no thinner than about 12 mil traces, 16 being better. Naturally that depends on the design. Larger pads are better if possible. Normal traces could be 16 or 24, but you'll get an idea of how much that is in terms of the board. If you're using EAGLE (for example), draw a polygon around the entire board on the bottom layer, following the dimension line. Name it "GND" for the bottom (assuming you're doing single sided boards). In EAGLE, the command to remove the effects (but not the polygon) is RIPUP @ That's a ground fill, ground pour, etc. It fills some unused areas of the board and reduces etchant use. Mostly, for beginning stuff, larger traces are better because the process can tolerate more pinholes and the like. Once you get down to 10 mil traces with 10 mil spacing, the process is less forgiving, and you'll have to be a bit better at it. A note on EAGLE (and likely some other programs), the size of the pad is optimized for a board house, so it's rather thin in diameter. This can be difficult when drilling holes and soldering. In a board house produced board, this hole is automatically plated through and is more sturdy as well as has more contact area for solder. You may want to start making a library with larger pads for parts depending on how you design things. I'd especially suggest this for single sided boards, although the nature of the parts lead (through board and then soldered) tends to hold things in place. Harvey Thanks |
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Re: Etchants and rust
On 3/6/2019 9:34 AM, russell shaw wrote:
On 07/03/19 02:13, Dave wrote:Russel,Russel,It sits in the corner of a normal room, about 1.2m from a small pcb drill press, and rust isn't higher than that from a normal room environment. ? Ok, good info. So if I do my etching under my 24x24x14 carport outside, I should be good and the carport should escape rusting too. I think I can rest easy on the rust thing now as I have enough info on how not to be careless. I have to also realize I am a noob and have to design stuff to etch. Or download other peoples stuff to etch I probably won't be etching all of the time to worry about it. Thanks |
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Re: Bubble Tank DIY Plans
LOL :-) Believe me, the thought of the nails crossed my mind so I was looking at a plastic shed. My wife is a hair dresser so she already got me some good H202.
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On 3/5/2019 6:10 PM, Jean-Paul Louis via Groups.Io wrote:
A wood shed assembled with wood pegs, otherwise, |
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Re: Proxxon TBM115 on it's way
Yes, DipTrace is restricted. DesignSparkPCB is installed on your pc but opens up a start page every time you open the program. You can just close it after you see the latest news form them and go on with your work. All files are save to your pc and not the cloud.
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On 3/5/2019 7:09 PM, Harvey White wrote:
Oh, and last I looked, Diptrace does have a free version, with limits, |
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Re: Proxxon TBM115 on it's way
开云体育Yes, I found that out soon after I posted I thought you could use
it free for commercial. DesignSparkPCB allows commercial use for
free. :-) On 3/5/2019 7:14 PM, Rob via Groups.Io
wrote:
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Re: Etchants and rust
On 07/03/19 02:13, Dave wrote:
Russel,It sits in the corner of a normal room, about 1.2m from a small pcb drill press, and rust isn't higher than that from a normal room environment. I'm only using the polystyrene slab because it's a convenient size and doesn't fall apart or absorb much. You'd need some more weight on it to make sure the seal is good. I only make 6-8 runs of PCBs a year. Corrosion obviously happens some amount when the etcher is running, so having it on a separate table would be good if lots of shiny metal parts are nearby. |
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Re: Bubble Tank DIY Plans
开云体育I can't see it and I even went through the whole install dropbox
thing. :-( Dave On 3/6/2019 1:52 AM,
groupsio@... wrote:
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Re: Etchants and rust
Morris,
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? Thanks for the info. I think the guy I read about was etching near his drill press and left the open etch tank on the bench overnight. Probably a bubble etcher too. So if I etch outside and pour my etchant into a good jug and keep it as far away from any steel that I can, I may be ok. On 3/6/2019 7:10 AM, Morris Odell wrote:
I don't think you need to get too worried about this issue. Sure, leaving HCl fumes around steel or machinery is a bad thing but if you take a few sensible precautions you shouldn't have a problem. HCl is sold in pool shops in secure plastic bottles and you can repurpose them for keeping CuCl2 etching solution without too much trouble. I keep my solution in a thick plastic laundry detergent bottle with a childproof cap secure on a high shelf and clearly labeled. It's been like that for years with no problems. You're more likely to liberate fumes while you're actually doing the etching if you use a bubbler. |
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Re: Etchants and rust
So add a plate of baking soda to the 5 gallon bucket to absorb the HCI. Sounds reasonable. I have plenty of baking soda for my soda blaster. :)
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Thanks On 3/5/2019 7:58 PM, Donald H Locker wrote:
I would suggest the original HCl bottle (or something like it) inside a 5-gallon bucket with a lid, and put a container with some large surface area inside the bucket as well. Any HCl vapour will get neutralised by the baking soda. Check occasionally that you don't need to top it up. (The HCl even gets through the walls of the original bottle, so you will need something to neutralise it nearby.) |
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Re: Etchants and rust
Russel,
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? Do you use your etchant around tools like in a shop environment? I know the HCI is the troublemaker but how does the polystyrene help? I have somewhat of a machine shop so lots of steel and tooling etc to worry about. Thanks On 3/5/2019 7:51 PM, russell shaw wrote:
On 06/03/19 06:05, Dave wrote:After seeing some guys post on leaving his etchant tank out in his shop, and the next day his drill press post was solid rust... I was thinking that I really don't want to mess up my steel building or anything in it. That said, if I use the muriatic/peroxide etchant outside, and then pour it into a sealed container, I should be ok? Or if not if I really want to be sure, what is the best of the other etchants that works the fastest with no worry of rusting my stuff? Or am I being too paranoid?I just put a slab of polystyrene over the container. If it's a bit warped, put a bit of wood on top of that. |
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