Re: who said use gEDA EAGLE KiCad Diptrace
I'v been using DipTrace for ~5 years now and still think it's great. Especially the component and pattern editors, it's really quick and easy to make new components. This is important because no component library is every going to have everything you need.
The free version is limited to 300 pins with no board size limit, which is good for hobby use.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 25.02.2019 04.46, Rob via Groups.Io wrote: We definitely are comparing apples to oranges here.
I am not looking to make anything with more that 100 pins.
My hobby interest level is not in all of the whizbang full features of autorouting.
When I declared I definitely liked Diptrace better than EAGLE or KiCAD I was having a
VERY biased opinion of the BEGINNER documentation walk through and the simplicity of the user interface.
As a CAD PCB newbie I found the learning curve to start from scratch knowing nothing about EAGLE
was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay above my skill set as an amateur electronics dabbler.
The EAGLE GUI and documentation was hard for me to read...even when greatly magnified.
And then
5 minutes into waltzing with DIPtrace tutorials pretty much sold me.... just enough to give it another looksie.
|
Re: who said use gEDA EAGLE KiCad Diptrace
Hi everyone,
Maybe try Target3000, it's very simple to use and free! Just Google it. Works a treat!
|
Re: who said use gEDA EAGLE KiCad Diptrace
Thanks for the TinyCad/FreePCB??? details.
and
YES
gerbv is my "go to"
and how I examine if my GERBERs and EXCELLON drill file worked out.
On 02/24/2019 11:56 PM, Charles R.
Patton wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I suggest the two free programs:
TinyCAD?? (? ?
)
?? and
FreePCB? (? ?
)
TinyCAD is a easy, free schematic package that can export a
PADS-PCB file that then can be imported into FreePCB.? They are
simple, free, non-crippled pieces of software.
I have done multiple projects over the years in these two
packages.? What's nice is that I don't work with them daily, but
can come back in years and pick them up and start using them.? The
FreePCB data file is in ASCII and can be edited with a simple text
editor.?? Why that's nice is that on one project I had a very
complex board outline that the client gave me a few thousand point
Gerber milling file of the outline.? A few simple edits using a
spreadsheet to adjust the units of measurement and add a bit of
code conversion and I plugged it into the FreePCB file and
proceeded from there to move in the parts and traces from the
PADS-PCB file.? Though FreePCB doesn't have the bells and whistles
of the other packages it was easy to do a complex problem.? (And
yes I have played with KICAD and my comments mirror some of the
others.? It doesn't flow easily for beginners.) ? Some of the
other free packages mentioned are crippled so you get a
ways in the project and run into one of the shortcomings.? Free is
not so free then.?
While on the subject of simple, free packages.? To complete the
chain,
Gerbv?? (? ?
)?? - the free gEDA file viewer rounds out the design chain so you
can view the final output files from FreePCB.?
It always surprises me when they seem to be overlooked when free
programs are brought up as they always worked so well and easily
for me.
Just my two cents.?
Regards,
Charles R. Patton
On 2/24/2019 7:46 PM, Rob via
Groups.Io wrote:
We
definitely are comparing apples to oranges here.
I am not looking to make anything with more that 100 pins.
My hobby interest level is not in all of the whizbang full
features of autorouting.
When I declared I definitely liked Diptrace better than EAGLE or
KiCAD I was having a
VERY biased opinion of the BEGINNER documentation walk through
and the simplicity of the user interface.
As a CAD PCB newbie I found the learning curve to start from
scratch knowing nothing about EAGLE
was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay above my skill set as an amateur
electronics dabbler.
The EAGLE GUI and documentation was hard for me to read...even
when greatly magnified.
And then
5 minutes into waltzing with DIPtrace tutorials pretty much sold
me.... just enough to give it another looksie.
On 02/24/2019 02:28 PM, Jean-Paul Louis via Groups.Io wrote:
Diptrace free version is limited to 300
pins and 2 layer board. how is that better than eagle free
version.
Kicad is free and has no limits t all. It is supported by the
CERN, and will stay free for quite a long time.
95% of my designs have a lot more pins than 300, and I often
use for layers for Radio Frequency designs, so both Diptrace
and Eagle would cost me a lot to use them.
Just my two cents,
Jean-Paul
N1JPL
On Feb 24, 2019, at 1:15 PM, Rob via
Groups.Io <roomberg@...>
wrote:
definitely like this better than EAGLE or KiCad.
Thank you.
On 02/24/2019 06:57 AM, Mark Jordan wrote:
???? In the past I was a Tango PCB
user and liked it very much! Now it runs only in a DOSbox.
???? Have tried KiCAD but not liked it. Same with
DesignSpark.
???? Found DipTrace Free and liked it! Very easy to learn
and use.
????
???? 73,
???? Mark Jordan - PY3SS
On 24-Feb-19 03:08, brane212 wrote:
BTW, since new serias( 5.xx) of
KiCAD is out, I've decided to get at least a taste of
it, so, I've installed it and:
- it still feels awkward to me.
- it's too bloated for its function
-it's still buggy as it crashes a lot, at least inside
my constext ( Gentoo, Wayland, Enlightenment)
- it's slow
-its value added options ( resistance calculator etcetc)
are of dubious value for me
So, at least for me, KiCAD is not really that enticing
option.
Branko
On 22. 02. 19 08:42, brane212 wrote:
These things can be set up.
If you don't find solution by yourself, get on their
mail list and ask.
Branko
On 22. 02. 19 02:34, William Kimber wrote:
Well I tried the pcb-lesstif
version in my distro and it is just as unusable as
the plain pcb.
Font is too small, very light and just about
unreadable once a menu is opened.? In neither case
does it follow the standard font size set in Systems
Settings.
Sorry but not usable to me and since I had eye
surgery my sight is spot on.
Cheers,
Will
On 22/02/19 3:23 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
"Rob via Groups.Io" <roomberg@...>
writes:
THANK YOU
You're welcome.
what is lesstif HID ?
A HID is a "human interface device".? PCB has two
HIDs that are GUIs -
one that uses the GTK toolkit, and the other uses
the Lesstif (typically
Motif these days) toolkit.
If you installed PCB from your distro, you may
have an alternate package
you can install instead of "pcb" like
"pcb-lesstif".
If you're building pcb from sources, use
"./configure --with-gui=lesstif"
There's also a "batch" HID we use for scripting
(like the testsuite, and
web CGIs) as well as a large range of export HIDs
(like gerber,
postscript, png, etc).
|
Re: who said use gEDA EAGLE KiCad Diptrace
I suggest the two free programs:
TinyCAD?? (? ? )
?? and
FreePCB? (? ? )
TinyCAD is a easy, free schematic package that can export a PADS-PCB
file that then can be imported into FreePCB.? They are simple, free,
non-crippled pieces of software.
I have done multiple projects over the years in these two packages.?
What's nice is that I don't work with them daily, but can come back
in years and pick them up and start using them.? The FreePCB data
file is in ASCII and can be edited with a simple text editor.?? Why
that's nice is that on one project I had a very complex board
outline that the client gave me a few thousand point Gerber milling
file of the outline.? A few simple edits using a spreadsheet to
adjust the units of measurement and add a bit of code conversion and
I plugged it into the FreePCB file and proceeded from there to move
in the parts and traces from the PADS-PCB file.? Though FreePCB
doesn't have the bells and whistles of the other packages it was
easy to do a complex problem.? (And yes I have played with KICAD and
my comments mirror some of the others.? It doesn't flow easily for
beginners.) ? Some of the other free packages mentioned are
crippled so you get a ways in the project and run into one of the
shortcomings.? Free is not so free then.?
While on the subject of simple, free packages.? To complete the
chain,
Gerbv?? (? ? )?? - the free gEDA file
viewer rounds out the design chain so you can view the final output
files from FreePCB.?
It always surprises me when they seem to be overlooked when free
programs are brought up as they always worked so well and easily for
me.
Just my two cents.?
Regards,
Charles R. Patton
On 2/24/2019 7:46 PM, Rob via Groups.Io
wrote:
We
definitely are comparing apples to oranges here.
I am not looking to make anything with more that 100 pins.
My hobby interest level is not in all of the whizbang full
features of autorouting.
When I declared I definitely liked Diptrace better than EAGLE or
KiCAD I was having a
VERY biased opinion of the BEGINNER documentation walk through and
the simplicity of the user interface.
As a CAD PCB newbie I found the learning curve to start from
scratch knowing nothing about EAGLE
was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay above my skill set as an amateur
electronics dabbler.
The EAGLE GUI and documentation was hard for me to read...even
when greatly magnified.
And then
5 minutes into waltzing with DIPtrace tutorials pretty much sold
me.... just enough to give it another looksie.
On 02/24/2019 02:28 PM, Jean-Paul Louis via Groups.Io wrote:
Diptrace free version is limited to 300
pins and 2 layer board. how is that better than eagle free
version.
Kicad is free and has no limits t all. It is supported by the
CERN, and will stay free for quite a long time.
95% of my designs have a lot more pins than 300, and I often use
for layers for Radio Frequency designs, so both Diptrace and
Eagle would cost me a lot to use them.
Just my two cents,
Jean-Paul
N1JPL
On Feb 24, 2019, at 1:15 PM, Rob via
Groups.Io <roomberg@...> wrote:
definitely like this better than EAGLE or KiCad.
Thank you.
On 02/24/2019 06:57 AM, Mark Jordan wrote:
???? In the past I was a Tango PCB
user and liked it very much! Now it runs only in a DOSbox.
???? Have tried KiCAD but not liked it. Same with
DesignSpark.
???? Found DipTrace Free and liked it! Very easy to learn
and use.
????
???? 73,
???? Mark Jordan - PY3SS
On 24-Feb-19 03:08, brane212 wrote:
BTW, since new serias( 5.xx) of
KiCAD is out, I've decided to get at least a taste of it,
so, I've installed it and:
- it still feels awkward to me.
- it's too bloated for its function
-it's still buggy as it crashes a lot, at least inside my
constext ( Gentoo, Wayland, Enlightenment)
- it's slow
-its value added options ( resistance calculator etcetc)
are of dubious value for me
So, at least for me, KiCAD is not really that enticing
option.
Branko
On 22. 02. 19 08:42, brane212 wrote:
These things can be set up.
If you don't find solution by yourself, get on their
mail list and ask.
Branko
On 22. 02. 19 02:34, William Kimber wrote:
Well I tried the pcb-lesstif
version in my distro and it is just as unusable as the
plain pcb.
Font is too small, very light and just about
unreadable once a menu is opened.? In neither case
does it follow the standard font size set in Systems
Settings.
Sorry but not usable to me and since I had eye surgery
my sight is spot on.
Cheers,
Will
On 22/02/19 3:23 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
"Rob via Groups.Io"
<roomberg@...> writes:
THANK YOU
You're welcome.
what is lesstif HID ?
A HID is a "human interface device".? PCB has two
HIDs that are GUIs -
one that uses the GTK toolkit, and the other uses
the Lesstif (typically
Motif these days) toolkit.
If you installed PCB from your distro, you may have
an alternate package
you can install instead of "pcb" like "pcb-lesstif".
If you're building pcb from sources, use
"./configure --with-gui=lesstif"
There's also a "batch" HID we use for scripting
(like the testsuite, and
web CGIs) as well as a large range of export HIDs
(like gerber,
postscript, png, etc).
|
Re: who said use gEDA EAGLE KiCad Diptrace
We definitely are comparing apples to oranges here.
I am not looking to make anything with more that 100 pins.
My hobby interest level is not in all of the whizbang full features of autorouting.
When I declared I definitely liked Diptrace better than EAGLE or KiCAD I was having a
VERY biased opinion of the BEGINNER documentation walk through and the simplicity of the user interface.
As a CAD PCB newbie I found the learning curve to start from scratch knowing nothing about EAGLE
was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay above my skill set as an amateur electronics dabbler.
The EAGLE GUI and documentation was hard for me to read...even when greatly magnified.
And then
5 minutes into waltzing with DIPtrace tutorials pretty much sold me.... just enough to give it another looksie.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 02/24/2019 02:28 PM, Jean-Paul Louis via Groups.Io wrote: Diptrace free version is limited to 300 pins and 2 layer board. how is that better than eagle free version.
Kicad is free and has no limits t all. It is supported by the CERN, and will stay free for quite a long time.
95% of my designs have a lot more pins than 300, and I often use for layers for Radio Frequency designs, so both Diptrace and Eagle would cost me a lot to use them.
Just my two cents,
Jean-Paul
N1JPL
On Feb 24, 2019, at 1:15 PM, Rob via Groups.Io <roomberg@...> wrote:
definitely like this better than EAGLE or KiCad.
Thank you.
On 02/24/2019 06:57 AM, Mark Jordan wrote:
In the past I was a Tango PCB user and liked it very much! Now it runs only in a DOSbox.
Have tried KiCAD but not liked it. Same with DesignSpark.
Found DipTrace Free and liked it! Very easy to learn and use.
73,
Mark Jordan - PY3SS
On 24-Feb-19 03:08, brane212 wrote:
BTW, since new serias( 5.xx) of KiCAD is out, I've decided to get at least a taste of it, so, I've installed it and:
- it still feels awkward to me.
- it's too bloated for its function
-it's still buggy as it crashes a lot, at least inside my constext ( Gentoo, Wayland, Enlightenment)
- it's slow
-its value added options ( resistance calculator etcetc) are of dubious value for me
So, at least for me, KiCAD is not really that enticing option.
Branko
On 22. 02. 19 08:42, brane212 wrote:
These things can be set up.
If you don't find solution by yourself, get on their mail list and ask.
Branko
On 22. 02. 19 02:34, William Kimber wrote:
Well I tried the pcb-lesstif version in my distro and it is just as unusable as the plain pcb.
Font is too small, very light and just about unreadable once a menu is opened. In neither case does it follow the standard font size set in Systems Settings.
Sorry but not usable to me and since I had eye surgery my sight is spot on.
Cheers,
Will
On 22/02/19 3:23 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
"Rob via Groups.Io" <roomberg@...> writes:
THANK YOU You're welcome.
what is lesstif HID ? A HID is a "human interface device". PCB has two HIDs that are GUIs -
one that uses the GTK toolkit, and the other uses the Lesstif (typically
Motif these days) toolkit.
If you installed PCB from your distro, you may have an alternate package
you can install instead of "pcb" like "pcb-lesstif".
If you're building pcb from sources, use "./configure --with-gui=lesstif"
There's also a "batch" HID we use for scripting (like the testsuite, and
web CGIs) as well as a large range of export HIDs (like gerber,
postscript, png, etc).
|
Diptrace free version is limited to 300 pins and 2 layer board. how is that better than eagle free version.
Kicad is free and has no limits t all. It is supported by the CERN, and will stay free for quite a long time.
95% of my designs have a lot more pins than 300, and I often use for layers for Radio Frequency designs, so both Diptrace and Eagle would cost me a lot to use them.
Just my two cents,
Jean-Paul
N1JPL
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 24, 2019, at 1:15 PM, Rob via Groups.Io <roomberg@...> wrote:
definitely like this better than EAGLE or KiCad.
Thank you.
On 02/24/2019 06:57 AM, Mark Jordan wrote:
In the past I was a Tango PCB user and liked it very much! Now it runs only in a DOSbox.
Have tried KiCAD but not liked it. Same with DesignSpark.
Found DipTrace Free and liked it! Very easy to learn and use.
73,
Mark Jordan - PY3SS
On 24-Feb-19 03:08, brane212 wrote:
BTW, since new serias( 5.xx) of KiCAD is out, I've decided to get at least a taste of it, so, I've installed it and:
- it still feels awkward to me.
- it's too bloated for its function
-it's still buggy as it crashes a lot, at least inside my constext ( Gentoo, Wayland, Enlightenment)
- it's slow
-its value added options ( resistance calculator etcetc) are of dubious value for me
So, at least for me, KiCAD is not really that enticing option.
Branko
On 22. 02. 19 08:42, brane212 wrote:
These things can be set up.
If you don't find solution by yourself, get on their mail list and ask.
Branko
On 22. 02. 19 02:34, William Kimber wrote:
Well I tried the pcb-lesstif version in my distro and it is just as unusable as the plain pcb.
Font is too small, very light and just about unreadable once a menu is opened. In neither case does it follow the standard font size set in Systems Settings.
Sorry but not usable to me and since I had eye surgery my sight is spot on.
Cheers,
Will
On 22/02/19 3:23 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
"Rob via Groups.Io" <roomberg@...> writes:
THANK YOU You're welcome.
what is lesstif HID ? A HID is a "human interface device". PCB has two HIDs that are GUIs -
one that uses the GTK toolkit, and the other uses the Lesstif (typically
Motif these days) toolkit.
If you installed PCB from your distro, you may have an alternate package
you can install instead of "pcb" like "pcb-lesstif".
If you're building pcb from sources, use "./configure --with-gui=lesstif"
There's also a "batch" HID we use for scripting (like the testsuite, and
web CGIs) as well as a large range of export HIDs (like gerber,
postscript, png, etc).
|
definitely like this better than EAGLE or KiCad.
Thank you.
On 02/24/2019 06:57 AM, Mark Jordan
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
??? In the past I was a Tango PCB user and liked it very much! Now
it runs only in a DOSbox.
??? Have tried KiCAD but not liked it. Same with DesignSpark.
??? Found DipTrace Free and liked it! Very easy to learn and use.
???
??? 73,
??? Mark Jordan - PY3SS
On 24-Feb-19 03:08, brane212 wrote:
BTW, since new serias( 5.xx) of KiCAD is
out, I've decided to get at least a taste of it, so, I've
installed it and:
- it still feels awkward to me.
- it's too bloated for its function
-it's still buggy as it crashes a lot, at least inside my
constext ( Gentoo, Wayland, Enlightenment)
- it's slow
-its value added options ( resistance calculator etcetc) are of
dubious value for me
So, at least for me, KiCAD is not really that enticing option.
Branko
On 22. 02. 19 08:42, brane212 wrote:
These things can be set up.
If you don't find solution by yourself, get on their mail list
and ask.
Branko
On 22. 02. 19 02:34, William Kimber wrote:
Well I tried the pcb-lesstif version
in my distro and it is just as unusable as the plain pcb.
Font is too small, very light and just about unreadable once
a menu is opened.? In neither case does it follow the
standard font size set in Systems Settings.
Sorry but not usable to me and since I had eye surgery my
sight is spot on.
Cheers,
Will
On 22/02/19 3:23 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
"Rob via Groups.Io"
<roomberg@...> writes:
THANK YOU
You're welcome.
what is lesstif HID ?
A HID is a "human interface device".? PCB has two HIDs
that are GUIs -
one that uses the GTK toolkit, and the other uses the
Lesstif (typically
Motif these days) toolkit.
If you installed PCB from your distro, you may have an
alternate package
you can install instead of "pcb" like "pcb-lesstif".
If you're building pcb from sources, use "./configure
--with-gui=lesstif"
There's also a "batch" HID we use for scripting (like the
testsuite, and
web CGIs) as well as a large range of export HIDs (like
gerber,
postscript, png, etc).
|
Re: PCB holes drill from HARBOR FREIGHT $9 HOME BREW PCBS
On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 23:51:56 -0500, you wrote: What do you do with PASCAL? Rather than microsoft visual studio for PC programs, I use pascal (LAZARUS pascal, free) for my PC applications. Board generation program is one of them, so are some communications interfaces to projects, as is a screen generator program that manages menu screens, and linked buttons (and look and feel) for graphics projects. OpenSCAD for 3D modeling, C (Atollic TrueStudio for ST micro ARM), VHDL for the FPGA/CPLD, and perhaps LUA for the ESP8266 WIFI nodes, still working on that one.
I am a retired computer programmer.
Retired, yes, started off in hardware, then software, then systems, then ended up teaching. I wrote 911 systems and software for pacemakers in your chest. Embedded processor stuff, including test sets for military gear, and some of the programming inside the ARSR9 (think that was it), long range aircraft tracking radar (three level weather refit, bit slice processor in assembly....)
I've programmed everything from microcontrollers to mainframes.
Not too many mainframes for me.
I never met a PASCAL programmer.
I started out in PLM-86 for high level microprocessor stuff, an Intel 8086 derivative of PL1, and Pascal was quite similar. Didn't learn C or C++ until lots later. My PCB kitchen etching has been caveman style paint on the wall.....
nothing made with a CAD. I have the CAD stuff, so I use it.
I spent 2 months studying EAGLE and concluded its complexity was bigtime
overkill
for my simple PCBs.
However, mine are a little less simple, so EAGLE was a good idea. Saved me from having to write a PCBOARD program myself. Only so much of that makes sense. Not sure about KiCad for my use, though. It's not likely that Autocad will ever change their model, so unless I want to waste 100 dollars a year (minimum), and I'm no longer qualified for an academic license, well.... Eagle 7x is my friend for now. KiCAD may be. Harvey
?I went down the laminator route....
but halted ALL laminator toner transfer when I discovered HEAVY METAL
toner transfer.
?
On 02/23/2019 11:26 PM, Harvey White wrote:
On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 22:11:11 -0500, you wrote:
THANK YOU HARVEY!!!.......ALL VERY IMPORTANT AND NOTE WORTHY
but
we are talking here on HOME BREW PCBs forum and sometimes we really are
home brewing PCBs and Hmmm
The only expensive thing is/was the license for EAGLE as a
hobby/student.
Lazarus pascal is free.
Open SCAD is free.
The editor I use for it is free.
The programming I wrote, other than the time I put into it, is free.
If you want, you can add the cost of the digital calipers, but I use
them in the machine shop, too.
not investing in expensive professional tooling. It isn't expensive, but the question is whether or not (and how many)
carbide drill bits you break.
I've broken a few. (and yes, got them from Harbor Freight, but I use
them a bit differently).
My projects are probably a little more complex than average, so I have
a lot of holes to drill. In doing double sided boards, I *have* to
get the holes to line up. Accuracy in drilling the guide holes is
critical. How to align the boards is also critical. The vias in what
I do are small enough that I can misalign a board top to bottom by a
little bit, and the holes and pads don't line up at all. That board
is ruined
Steel bits last only so long, but that depends on the material of the
board. Paper phenolic is epoxy and paper, and isn't very abrasive.
FR3 or FR4 is glass embedded in epoxy resin, and cutting through glass
is nasty for plain steel bits.
IMHO, Proxxon makes better quality tools than dremel. Less runout on
the bearings and four jaw steel collets rather than three.
This is not about "my" way being better than yours.
I make boards with a certain tolerance, certain chip styles, and a
certain amount of parts/square inch. Most of them are now surface
mount, which is a whole 'nother argument.
What I do for the boards I make tends to indicate that I make them in
a certain way, with certain tools.
The most expensive tool I got was likely the proxxon. The upside down
drill press was an interesting project, but not everybody wants one or
would need it. It answered a partucular need, and yes, I built it and
it had some expensive (to me) parts.
The laminator was a standard one, so going for toner transfer PCBs was
relatively easy.
So this wasn't (to me) expensive, and if what you do satisfies you
(and it certainly seems to), then go for it.
I have different requirements, different projects, and to get those to
work, I need to do things differently.
This isn't about better, or right, or wrong, it's about different ways
of doing things.
Harvey
I have been hand drilling at low speeds...dead batteries.... using
DREMEL pumpkin cutters:
for 4 years.
ANYone can do this for home brewing PCBs in their kitchen.
and easily plunge accurate holes that will hold 28 pin DIP chips.
I do not use 5 different drill bits.... like? for tiny 1/8th watt resistors
and bigger transistors.
I drill just one size hole and when I need a bigger hole I go back and
give a angled twist and grind a bigger hole.
I have broken some drill bits and have learned that if I design my PCB
to have a PLUS sign or round hole then
the drill bit finds center and doesn't argue much and doesn't break.
This particular HARBOR FREIGHT rotary tool? was note worthy to share
because it is definitely half the price
of the dremel pumpkin cutter and plugs into the wall.
Which means top speed will be attained every time....
compared to dead batteries in my dremel tools.
Now about wobble .........
I have drilled at least 1,000 holes in 4 years with my dremel pumpkin
cutter and only recently
have noticed wear and tear and wobble.
That is one reason I bought another toy from harbor freight.
If this toy lasts a year before wobbling I got my $9 out of it.
And YES black carbide drill bits are fragile and do shatter.
ALWAYS wear eye protection when spinning any cutting tool.
Sometimes I wear a ski mask that has a built in condensation clearing
fan when I
grind and cut 1/2 inch steel? threaded rods with dremel cutoff wheels.
I buy my drill bits in packs of 100 or more and right now I have enough
to last until
I die so I don't care if I break THE ONE BIT I will use that came with
the rotary tool.
Have fun.
I am.
Rob
On 02/23/2019 09:41 PM, Harvey White wrote:
On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 21:06:37 -0500, you wrote:
Carbide drills are extremely sharp.
They are also extremely fragile.
They cannot tolerate any kind of force that would make them bend.
They have a limited tolerance to torsion (twist) so if they get
caught in something, they're likely to break off, often at the top of
the drill part.
Having said that, if you put them in a drill press, the faster the
better (seriously, you want anything between 20000 RPM and 60000 RPM,
depends on the drill size), they'll last a long time.
Main problem with the harbor freight sets is that you can't control
what sizes you really need, and you normally need to clear 0.025
posts, IC socket tabs, 1/4 watt resistors, and then any wire you use
to bridge the top and bottom planes. If you don't do that, they they
need to clear the wires needed for jumpers, if you use any.
*please* put them in a drill press.
And runout (wobble in the chuck) is absolutely critical, the less, the
better. At 50,000 RPM (or even 20,000), a wobbling drill bit cuts
something that's not necessarily round, and certainly NOT the intended
diameter.
Proxxon seems to be best for the tool, less runout than dremel (got
both). the 12 volt version seems to have enough torque to drill, but
for the drill press itself, it can't wobble. Just like taps,
perpendicular is the gold spot, you don't want an angled drill.
If you ever go to double sided boards, you need to build something to
drill holls *very* accurately. Check if there are any posts that I've
written on "upside down drill presses".
And past a certain point, if you don't need one, you may feel as if
you *should* have one.
I could repeat the posts, but that's only if someone is interested.
Harvey
PCB holes drill? from HARBOR FREIGHT??? $9
the tool:
DRILMASTER????? #63235????? ROTARY TOOL KIT
comes with all sorts of grinder and polishing tips and the ONE drill bit
I use to drill PCB component holes.
The ONLY reason I bought it was to drill PCB holes.
and
I was LEARY.
Because I have another one that looks just like it but the voltage is
9volts on mine
and will not drill clear through a PCB.
THIS ONE IS 12 VOLTS
so
the acid test was to punch some holes in PCB
AND IT WORKED GREAT!!!!!!
So..... no more battery operated DREMEL pumpkin cutters for me.
|
In the past I was a Tango PCB user and liked it very much! Now it runs only in a DOSbox.
??? Have tried KiCAD but not liked it. Same with DesignSpark.
??? Found DipTrace Free and liked it! Very easy to learn and use.
???
??? 73,
??? Mark Jordan - PY3SS
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 24-Feb-19 03:08, brane212 wrote: BTW, since new serias( 5.xx) of KiCAD is out, I've decided to get at least a taste of it, so, I've installed it and:
- it still feels awkward to me.
- it's too bloated for its function
-it's still buggy as it crashes a lot, at least inside my constext ( Gentoo, Wayland, Enlightenment)
- it's slow
-its value added options ( resistance calculator etcetc) are of dubious value for me
So, at least for me, KiCAD is not really that enticing option.
Branko
On 22. 02. 19 08:42, brane212 wrote:
These things can be set up.
If you don't find solution by yourself, get on their mail list and ask.
Branko
On 22. 02. 19 02:34, William Kimber wrote:
Well I tried the pcb-lesstif version in my distro and it is just as unusable as the plain pcb.
Font is too small, very light and just about unreadable once a menu is opened.? In neither case does it follow the standard font size set in Systems Settings.
Sorry but not usable to me and since I had eye surgery my sight is spot on.
Cheers,
Will
On 22/02/19 3:23 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
"Rob via Groups.Io" <roomberg@...> writes:
THANK YOU You're welcome.
what is lesstif HID ? A HID is a "human interface device".? PCB has two HIDs that are GUIs -
one that uses the GTK toolkit, and the other uses the Lesstif (typically
Motif these days) toolkit.
If you installed PCB from your distro, you may have an alternate package
you can install instead of "pcb" like "pcb-lesstif".
If you're building pcb from sources, use "./configure --with-gui=lesstif"
There's also a "batch" HID we use for scripting (like the testsuite, and
web CGIs) as well as a large range of export HIDs (like gerber,
postscript, png, etc).
|
BTW, since new serias( 5.xx) of KiCAD is out, I've decided to get at least a taste of it, so, I've installed it and:
- it still feels awkward to me.
- it's too bloated for its function
-it's still buggy as it crashes a lot, at least inside my constext ( Gentoo, Wayland, Enlightenment)
- it's slow
-its value added options ( resistance calculator etcetc) are of dubious value for me
So, at least for me, KiCAD is not really that enticing option.
Branko
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 22. 02. 19 08:42, brane212 wrote: These things can be set up.
If you don't find solution by yourself, get on their mail list and ask.
Branko
On 22. 02. 19 02:34, William Kimber wrote:
Well I tried the pcb-lesstif version in my distro and it is just as unusable as the plain pcb.
Font is too small, very light and just about unreadable once a menu is opened.? In neither case does it follow the standard font size set in Systems Settings.
Sorry but not usable to me and since I had eye surgery my sight is spot on.
Cheers,
Will
On 22/02/19 3:23 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
"Rob via Groups.Io" <roomberg@...> writes:
THANK YOU You're welcome.
what is lesstif HID ? A HID is a "human interface device".? PCB has two HIDs that are GUIs -
one that uses the GTK toolkit, and the other uses the Lesstif (typically
Motif these days) toolkit.
If you installed PCB from your distro, you may have an alternate package
you can install instead of "pcb" like "pcb-lesstif".
If you're building pcb from sources, use "./configure --with-gui=lesstif"
There's also a "batch" HID we use for scripting (like the testsuite, and
web CGIs) as well as a large range of export HIDs (like gerber,
postscript, png, etc).
|
Re: PCB holes drill from HARBOR FREIGHT $9 HOME BREW PCBS
What do you do with PASCAL?
I am a retired computer programmer.
I wrote 911 systems and software for pacemakers
in your chest.
I've programmed everything from microcontrollers
to mainframes.
I never met a PASCAL programmer.
My PCB kitchen etching has been caveman style
paint on the wall.....
nothing made with a CAD.
I spent 2 months studying EAGLE and concluded its
complexity was bigtime overkill
for my simple PCBs.
?I went down the laminator route....
but halted ALL laminator toner transfer when I discovered HEAVY
METAL toner transfer.
?
On 02/23/2019 11:26 PM, Harvey White
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 22:11:11 -0500, you wrote:
THANK YOU HARVEY!!!.......ALL VERY IMPORTANT AND NOTE WORTHY
but
we are talking here on HOME BREW PCBs forum and sometimes we really are
home brewing PCBs and
Hmmm
The only expensive thing is/was the license for EAGLE as a
hobby/student.
Lazarus pascal is free.
Open SCAD is free.
The editor I use for it is free.
The programming I wrote, other than the time I put into it, is free.
If you want, you can add the cost of the digital calipers, but I use
them in the machine shop, too.
not investing in expensive professional tooling.
It isn't expensive, but the question is whether or not (and how many)
carbide drill bits you break.
I've broken a few. (and yes, got them from Harbor Freight, but I use
them a bit differently).
My projects are probably a little more complex than average, so I have
a lot of holes to drill. In doing double sided boards, I *have* to
get the holes to line up. Accuracy in drilling the guide holes is
critical. How to align the boards is also critical. The vias in what
I do are small enough that I can misalign a board top to bottom by a
little bit, and the holes and pads don't line up at all. That board
is ruined
Steel bits last only so long, but that depends on the material of the
board. Paper phenolic is epoxy and paper, and isn't very abrasive.
FR3 or FR4 is glass embedded in epoxy resin, and cutting through glass
is nasty for plain steel bits.
IMHO, Proxxon makes better quality tools than dremel. Less runout on
the bearings and four jaw steel collets rather than three.
This is not about "my" way being better than yours.
I make boards with a certain tolerance, certain chip styles, and a
certain amount of parts/square inch. Most of them are now surface
mount, which is a whole 'nother argument.
What I do for the boards I make tends to indicate that I make them in
a certain way, with certain tools.
The most expensive tool I got was likely the proxxon. The upside down
drill press was an interesting project, but not everybody wants one or
would need it. It answered a partucular need, and yes, I built it and
it had some expensive (to me) parts.
The laminator was a standard one, so going for toner transfer PCBs was
relatively easy.
So this wasn't (to me) expensive, and if what you do satisfies you
(and it certainly seems to), then go for it.
I have different requirements, different projects, and to get those to
work, I need to do things differently.
This isn't about better, or right, or wrong, it's about different ways
of doing things.
Harvey
I have been hand drilling at low speeds...dead batteries.... using
DREMEL pumpkin cutters:
for 4 years.
ANYone can do this for home brewing PCBs in their kitchen.
and easily plunge accurate holes that will hold 28 pin DIP chips.
I do not use 5 different drill bits.... like? for tiny 1/8th watt resistors
and bigger transistors.
I drill just one size hole and when I need a bigger hole I go back and
give a angled twist and grind a bigger hole.
I have broken some drill bits and have learned that if I design my PCB
to have a PLUS sign or round hole then
the drill bit finds center and doesn't argue much and doesn't break.
This particular HARBOR FREIGHT rotary tool? was note worthy to share
because it is definitely half the price
of the dremel pumpkin cutter and plugs into the wall.
Which means top speed will be attained every time....
compared to dead batteries in my dremel tools.
Now about wobble .........
I have drilled at least 1,000 holes in 4 years with my dremel pumpkin
cutter and only recently
have noticed wear and tear and wobble.
That is one reason I bought another toy from harbor freight.
If this toy lasts a year before wobbling I got my $9 out of it.
And YES black carbide drill bits are fragile and do shatter.
ALWAYS wear eye protection when spinning any cutting tool.
Sometimes I wear a ski mask that has a built in condensation clearing
fan when I
grind and cut 1/2 inch steel? threaded rods with dremel cutoff wheels.
I buy my drill bits in packs of 100 or more and right now I have enough
to last until
I die so I don't care if I break THE ONE BIT I will use that came with
the rotary tool.
Have fun.
I am.
Rob
On 02/23/2019 09:41 PM, Harvey White wrote:
On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 21:06:37 -0500, you wrote:
Carbide drills are extremely sharp.
They are also extremely fragile.
They cannot tolerate any kind of force that would make them bend.
They have a limited tolerance to torsion (twist) so if they get
caught in something, they're likely to break off, often at the top of
the drill part.
Having said that, if you put them in a drill press, the faster the
better (seriously, you want anything between 20000 RPM and 60000 RPM,
depends on the drill size), they'll last a long time.
Main problem with the harbor freight sets is that you can't control
what sizes you really need, and you normally need to clear 0.025
posts, IC socket tabs, 1/4 watt resistors, and then any wire you use
to bridge the top and bottom planes. If you don't do that, they they
need to clear the wires needed for jumpers, if you use any.
*please* put them in a drill press.
And runout (wobble in the chuck) is absolutely critical, the less, the
better. At 50,000 RPM (or even 20,000), a wobbling drill bit cuts
something that's not necessarily round, and certainly NOT the intended
diameter.
Proxxon seems to be best for the tool, less runout than dremel (got
both). the 12 volt version seems to have enough torque to drill, but
for the drill press itself, it can't wobble. Just like taps,
perpendicular is the gold spot, you don't want an angled drill.
If you ever go to double sided boards, you need to build something to
drill holls *very* accurately. Check if there are any posts that I've
written on "upside down drill presses".
And past a certain point, if you don't need one, you may feel as if
you *should* have one.
I could repeat the posts, but that's only if someone is interested.
Harvey
PCB holes drill? from HARBOR FREIGHT??? $9
the tool:
DRILMASTER????? #63235????? ROTARY TOOL KIT
comes with all sorts of grinder and polishing tips and the ONE drill bit
I use to drill PCB component holes.
The ONLY reason I bought it was to drill PCB holes.
and
I was LEARY.
Because I have another one that looks just like it but the voltage is
9volts on mine
and will not drill clear through a PCB.
THIS ONE IS 12 VOLTS
so
the acid test was to punch some holes in PCB
AND IT WORKED GREAT!!!!!!
So..... no more battery operated DREMEL pumpkin cutters for me.
|
Re: PCB holes drill from HARBOR FREIGHT $9 HOME BREW PCBS
On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 22:11:11 -0500, you wrote: THANK YOU HARVEY!!!.......ALL VERY IMPORTANT AND NOTE WORTHY
but
we are talking here on HOME BREW PCBs forum and sometimes we really are
home brewing PCBs and Hmmm The only expensive thing is/was the license for EAGLE as a hobby/student. Lazarus pascal is free. Open SCAD is free. The editor I use for it is free. The programming I wrote, other than the time I put into it, is free. If you want, you can add the cost of the digital calipers, but I use them in the machine shop, too.
not investing in expensive professional tooling.
It isn't expensive, but the question is whether or not (and how many) carbide drill bits you break. I've broken a few. (and yes, got them from Harbor Freight, but I use them a bit differently). My projects are probably a little more complex than average, so I have a lot of holes to drill. In doing double sided boards, I *have* to get the holes to line up. Accuracy in drilling the guide holes is critical. How to align the boards is also critical. The vias in what I do are small enough that I can misalign a board top to bottom by a little bit, and the holes and pads don't line up at all. That board is ruined Steel bits last only so long, but that depends on the material of the board. Paper phenolic is epoxy and paper, and isn't very abrasive. FR3 or FR4 is glass embedded in epoxy resin, and cutting through glass is nasty for plain steel bits. IMHO, Proxxon makes better quality tools than dremel. Less runout on the bearings and four jaw steel collets rather than three. This is not about "my" way being better than yours. I make boards with a certain tolerance, certain chip styles, and a certain amount of parts/square inch. Most of them are now surface mount, which is a whole 'nother argument. What I do for the boards I make tends to indicate that I make them in a certain way, with certain tools. The most expensive tool I got was likely the proxxon. The upside down drill press was an interesting project, but not everybody wants one or would need it. It answered a partucular need, and yes, I built it and it had some expensive (to me) parts. The laminator was a standard one, so going for toner transfer PCBs was relatively easy. So this wasn't (to me) expensive, and if what you do satisfies you (and it certainly seems to), then go for it. I have different requirements, different projects, and to get those to work, I need to do things differently. This isn't about better, or right, or wrong, it's about different ways of doing things. Harvey
I have been hand drilling at low speeds...dead batteries.... using
DREMEL pumpkin cutters:
for 4 years.
ANYone can do this for home brewing PCBs in their kitchen.
and easily plunge accurate holes that will hold 28 pin DIP chips.
I do not use 5 different drill bits.... like? for tiny 1/8th watt resistors
and bigger transistors.
I drill just one size hole and when I need a bigger hole I go back and
give a angled twist and grind a bigger hole.
I have broken some drill bits and have learned that if I design my PCB
to have a PLUS sign or round hole then
the drill bit finds center and doesn't argue much and doesn't break.
This particular HARBOR FREIGHT rotary tool? was note worthy to share
because it is definitely half the price
of the dremel pumpkin cutter and plugs into the wall.
Which means top speed will be attained every time....
compared to dead batteries in my dremel tools.
Now about wobble .........
I have drilled at least 1,000 holes in 4 years with my dremel pumpkin
cutter and only recently
have noticed wear and tear and wobble.
That is one reason I bought another toy from harbor freight.
If this toy lasts a year before wobbling I got my $9 out of it.
And YES black carbide drill bits are fragile and do shatter.
ALWAYS wear eye protection when spinning any cutting tool.
Sometimes I wear a ski mask that has a built in condensation clearing
fan when I
grind and cut 1/2 inch steel? threaded rods with dremel cutoff wheels.
I buy my drill bits in packs of 100 or more and right now I have enough
to last until
I die so I don't care if I break THE ONE BIT I will use that came with
the rotary tool.
Have fun.
I am.
Rob
On 02/23/2019 09:41 PM, Harvey White wrote:
On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 21:06:37 -0500, you wrote:
Carbide drills are extremely sharp.
They are also extremely fragile.
They cannot tolerate any kind of force that would make them bend.
They have a limited tolerance to torsion (twist) so if they get
caught in something, they're likely to break off, often at the top of
the drill part.
Having said that, if you put them in a drill press, the faster the
better (seriously, you want anything between 20000 RPM and 60000 RPM,
depends on the drill size), they'll last a long time.
Main problem with the harbor freight sets is that you can't control
what sizes you really need, and you normally need to clear 0.025
posts, IC socket tabs, 1/4 watt resistors, and then any wire you use
to bridge the top and bottom planes. If you don't do that, they they
need to clear the wires needed for jumpers, if you use any.
*please* put them in a drill press.
And runout (wobble in the chuck) is absolutely critical, the less, the
better. At 50,000 RPM (or even 20,000), a wobbling drill bit cuts
something that's not necessarily round, and certainly NOT the intended
diameter.
Proxxon seems to be best for the tool, less runout than dremel (got
both). the 12 volt version seems to have enough torque to drill, but
for the drill press itself, it can't wobble. Just like taps,
perpendicular is the gold spot, you don't want an angled drill.
If you ever go to double sided boards, you need to build something to
drill holls *very* accurately. Check if there are any posts that I've
written on "upside down drill presses".
And past a certain point, if you don't need one, you may feel as if
you *should* have one.
I could repeat the posts, but that's only if someone is interested.
Harvey
PCB holes drill? from HARBOR FREIGHT??? $9
the tool:
DRILMASTER????? #63235????? ROTARY TOOL KIT
comes with all sorts of grinder and polishing tips and the ONE drill bit
I use to drill PCB component holes.
The ONLY reason I bought it was to drill PCB holes.
and
I was LEARY.
Because I have another one that looks just like it but the voltage is
9volts on mine
and will not drill clear through a PCB.
THIS ONE IS 12 VOLTS
so
the acid test was to punch some holes in PCB
AND IT WORKED GREAT!!!!!!
So..... no more battery operated DREMEL pumpkin cutters for me.
|
Re: PCB holes drill from HARBOR FREIGHT $9 HOME BREW PCBS
THANK YOU HARVEY!!!.......ALL VERY IMPORTANT AND NOTE WORTHY
but
we are talking here on HOME BREW PCBs forum and sometimes we really are home brewing PCBs and
not investing in expensive professional tooling.
I have been hand drilling at low speeds...dead batteries.... using DREMEL pumpkin cutters:
for 4 years.
ANYone can do this for home brewing PCBs in their kitchen.
and easily plunge accurate holes that will hold 28 pin DIP chips.
I do not use 5 different drill bits.... like? for tiny 1/8th watt resistors
and bigger transistors.
I drill just one size hole and when I need a bigger hole I go back and give a angled twist and grind a bigger hole.
I have broken some drill bits and have learned that if I design my PCB to have a PLUS sign or round hole then
the drill bit finds center and doesn't argue much and doesn't break.
This particular HARBOR FREIGHT rotary tool? was note worthy to share because it is definitely half the price
of the dremel pumpkin cutter and plugs into the wall.
Which means top speed will be attained every time....
compared to dead batteries in my dremel tools.
Now about wobble .........
I have drilled at least 1,000 holes in 4 years with my dremel pumpkin cutter and only recently
have noticed wear and tear and wobble.
That is one reason I bought another toy from harbor freight.
If this toy lasts a year before wobbling I got my $9 out of it.
And YES black carbide drill bits are fragile and do shatter.
ALWAYS wear eye protection when spinning any cutting tool.
Sometimes I wear a ski mask that has a built in condensation clearing fan when I
grind and cut 1/2 inch steel? threaded rods with dremel cutoff wheels.
I buy my drill bits in packs of 100 or more and right now I have enough to last until
I die so I don't care if I break THE ONE BIT I will use that came with the rotary tool.
Have fun.
I am.
Rob
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 02/23/2019 09:41 PM, Harvey White wrote: On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 21:06:37 -0500, you wrote:
Carbide drills are extremely sharp.
They are also extremely fragile.
They cannot tolerate any kind of force that would make them bend.
They have a limited tolerance to torsion (twist) so if they get
caught in something, they're likely to break off, often at the top of
the drill part.
Having said that, if you put them in a drill press, the faster the
better (seriously, you want anything between 20000 RPM and 60000 RPM,
depends on the drill size), they'll last a long time.
Main problem with the harbor freight sets is that you can't control
what sizes you really need, and you normally need to clear 0.025
posts, IC socket tabs, 1/4 watt resistors, and then any wire you use
to bridge the top and bottom planes. If you don't do that, they they
need to clear the wires needed for jumpers, if you use any.
*please* put them in a drill press.
And runout (wobble in the chuck) is absolutely critical, the less, the
better. At 50,000 RPM (or even 20,000), a wobbling drill bit cuts
something that's not necessarily round, and certainly NOT the intended
diameter.
Proxxon seems to be best for the tool, less runout than dremel (got
both). the 12 volt version seems to have enough torque to drill, but
for the drill press itself, it can't wobble. Just like taps,
perpendicular is the gold spot, you don't want an angled drill.
If you ever go to double sided boards, you need to build something to
drill holls *very* accurately. Check if there are any posts that I've
written on "upside down drill presses".
And past a certain point, if you don't need one, you may feel as if
you *should* have one.
I could repeat the posts, but that's only if someone is interested.
Harvey
PCB holes drill? from HARBOR FREIGHT??? $9
the tool:
DRILMASTER????? #63235????? ROTARY TOOL KIT
comes with all sorts of grinder and polishing tips and the ONE drill bit
I use to drill PCB component holes.
The ONLY reason I bought it was to drill PCB holes.
and
I was LEARY.
Because I have another one that looks just like it but the voltage is
9volts on mine
and will not drill clear through a PCB.
THIS ONE IS 12 VOLTS
so
the acid test was to punch some holes in PCB
AND IT WORKED GREAT!!!!!!
So..... no more battery operated DREMEL pumpkin cutters for me.
|
Re: PCB holes drill from HARBOR FREIGHT $9
On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 21:06:37 -0500, you wrote: Carbide drills are extremely sharp. They are also extremely fragile. They cannot tolerate any kind of force that would make them bend. They have a limited tolerance to torsion (twist) so if they get caught in something, they're likely to break off, often at the top of the drill part. Having said that, if you put them in a drill press, the faster the better (seriously, you want anything between 20000 RPM and 60000 RPM, depends on the drill size), they'll last a long time. Main problem with the harbor freight sets is that you can't control what sizes you really need, and you normally need to clear 0.025 posts, IC socket tabs, 1/4 watt resistors, and then any wire you use to bridge the top and bottom planes. If you don't do that, they they need to clear the wires needed for jumpers, if you use any. *please* put them in a drill press. And runout (wobble in the chuck) is absolutely critical, the less, the better. At 50,000 RPM (or even 20,000), a wobbling drill bit cuts something that's not necessarily round, and certainly NOT the intended diameter. Proxxon seems to be best for the tool, less runout than dremel (got both). the 12 volt version seems to have enough torque to drill, but for the drill press itself, it can't wobble. Just like taps, perpendicular is the gold spot, you don't want an angled drill. If you ever go to double sided boards, you need to build something to drill holls *very* accurately. Check if there are any posts that I've written on "upside down drill presses". And past a certain point, if you don't need one, you may feel as if you *should* have one. I could repeat the posts, but that's only if someone is interested. Harvey PCB holes drill? from HARBOR FREIGHT??? $9
the tool:
DRILMASTER????? #63235????? ROTARY TOOL KIT
comes with all sorts of grinder and polishing tips and the ONE drill bit
I use to drill PCB component holes.
The ONLY reason I bought it was to drill PCB holes.
and
I was LEARY.
Because I have another one that looks just like it but the voltage is
9volts on mine
and will not drill clear through a PCB.
THIS ONE IS 12 VOLTS
so
the acid test was to punch some holes in PCB
AND IT WORKED GREAT!!!!!!
So..... no more battery operated DREMEL pumpkin cutters for me.
|
PCB holes drill from HARBOR FREIGHT $9
PCB holes drill? from HARBOR FREIGHT??? $9
the tool:
DRILMASTER????? #63235????? ROTARY TOOL KIT
comes with all sorts of grinder and polishing
tips and the ONE drill bit I use to drill PCB component holes.
The ONLY reason I bought it was to drill PCB
holes.
and
I was LEARY.
Because I have another one that looks just like
it but the voltage is 9volts on mine
and will not drill clear through a PCB.
THIS ONE IS 12 VOLTS
so
the acid test was to punch some holes in PCB
AND IT WORKED GREAT!!!!!!
So..... no more battery operated DREMEL pumpkin
cutters for me.
|
Re: who said use gEDA 800 X 600 resolution
On Fri, 22 Feb 2019 22:46:32 +0100, you wrote: Gosh I've uploaded three pictures into the "madyn" directory. They are the result of an openSCAD image capture of a rotated image file. The three current views are all of the same board, one top, one bottom, and one zoomed to the bottom to show some details. The board file created by EAGLE 7.x is scanned, the "board" outline is generated, and that makes an arbitrary shape (probably won't do curves, will do straight lines) for the board. Each part has two entries in a table (there are more), but for the moment, they are the part name and an alias. You'll need this if several parts have the same physical model, but different descriptions in EAGLE. Each part also has an offset, one for top, one for bottom. This is needed if the part center is not exactly the center.... You fix it here. From there, the program provides an openSCAD model for each item, driven by the program logic, so 1206 SMT resistors are one thing, the 805 resistors are the same geometry (two end caps and a black body), but scaled differently. The resistor value (as shown on the closeup) is simply text positioned just far enough to stick out of the resistor body. The program handles each of the appropriate rotations (sorry, only 90 degree increments allowed for now, that's all I use). and whether it's mirrored or not (which affects positioning by offset(top/bottom of board) and by offset from a mythical center. Not all library parts in EAGLE have center=middle_of_part..... Since these are images, you can't rotate them. The program has a list of things it understands, things that are in your board, and gives you a screen list of parts it does *not* have. It simply doesn't put them on the board, but says it didn't. Because the 3D printing aspect is monochrome (for most printers), your best view is the board itself. It's a 3D openSCAD model, and can be included in your case design so that you can see how it fits. The screws (you'll see some) produce a "post" file, which is standoffs with a center hole where the standoffs are moulded into the case. You're free to ignore that, but it will show you where the mounting posts are (and put them in for you). The remaining file is a "punch" file, which cuts holes in the case for various things, LEDS, controls, displays, connectors, etc.... Since those components (and the board) are relative to zero, you're expected to move them (with some predefined (you do....) offsets in openSCAD). moving all three will keep the punchouts and the posts in line. Main program is written in Pascal (Free Pascal/LAZARUS, which is my favorite for windows programming. I think there's an equivalent LINUX version as well. OpenSCAD is available for MAC, WINDOWS, and LINUX, AFAIK. it's a bit of programming, but once you get the structure right, and get the parser right (pascal doesn't seem to have one), then you take the file apart and all you're left with is "do I have a model of this part?". Since that's a simple procedure in OpenSCAD, and all you have to do is feed the table.... (the library table is simply a .csv file, editable by any reasonable spreadsheet program) It still refers to models in a specific directory, but we knew that to start with.... So there you have a bit of an alternate way to take your board models (from EAGLE) to a 3D visualization, to a 3D cad program that allows you to build cases..... Hope that this is helpful..... And yes, I'm sure that someone else has done this, not sure that they've done it with EAGLE... but then again, I don't have to pay for the "delux" version... If I want "delux" I go and program "delux"... <grin> Harvey
Den 2019-02-22 kl. 22:37, skrev Harvey White:
On Fri, 22 Feb 2019 19:26:07 +1100, you wrote:
If you use Fusion 360 for CAD stuff, you can send a 3D model of your board
to Fusion so you can design an enclosure for it.
In theory if you redesign the board (eg move some LEDs around) those changes
will propagate to Fusion, and your enclosure will update (eg move the
cutouts). I haven't played with that too much to see how well it actually
works. There's a way to do that in EAGLE that doesn't involve using their
(pay for) services. However, there's significant programming
involved.
You need to take the board file apart, then figure out where the parts
go. Once you do that, you need a 3D model of the part. I use
openSCAD, which allows me to make a color, rotatable 3D image which
can be used to design a case.
If I wanted to, I could also do a 3D print of the board itself, no
colors, of course, but it's possible to do since it *is* a 3D image.
A little parametric work here and there (all resistors devolve to the
same models with slightly different parameters), and you'd be
surprised how many parts you can do.
It's rolling your own, though, and perhaps more work than most would
want to do.
Why do it? I don't want to pay for something I figured I could do
myself, and having a 3D cad model in the same program I use for cases
seemed rather useful.
The cad model includes mounting posts for the boards, and a punchout
which when added to the case, makes the appropriate holes based on the
board layout.
Harvey
Tony
If you can live with the limitations of the free version of EAGLE (all
libraries, 2 layers, 3 * 4 inch boards and one schematic sheet), then
that's free. You may or may not like the interface, but the menus can
(I think), be changed in size for icons.
If in windows, there's always low vision alternatives, but I've never
explored them.
KiCAD is free, has different limitations (it's all free....), and may
be what you might like.
It all depends on the complexity of your boards, the parts you use,
and what you think is simple enough.
Harvey
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Re: who said use gEDA 800 X 600 resolution
On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 09:56:46 +1100, you wrote: Fusion 360 is free for hobbyist use. Good idea.
Unlike with Eagle there are no restrictions, so the free version is the same
as the paid one.
I have a "standard" paid edition with eagle, 6 * 4 maximum board, hobbyiest version, yadda yadda little dog too.... (Usual guff about 'that might change', 'but it's cloud based' etc etc goes
here.) and I don't like the cloud, at all. Don't trust it. That is a problem.
Of course there's a learning curve for both Eagle & Fusion, so if what
you're doing works for you, then carry on. If you do want to learn Fusion,
skip YouTube and follow the tutorials in the Help menu. Not sure about any
Eagle beginners guides.
Eagle tutorials aren't valid for 7.x (which is the last before autocad bought it and went to a subscription model, 100 dollars/year nominal, only of use if you already use EAGLE and despise subscription pay models (**** ding! ding! ding! *) I've used it for long enough that I'm used to it, I can put up with it, etc. Having said that, Kicad is still an option.... Fusion being on the cloud is a major problem to me.... Thanks for the info, though. Harvey
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Harvey White
Sent: Saturday, 23 February 2019 8:38 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [homebrewpcbs] who said use gEDA 800 X 600 resolution
On Fri, 22 Feb 2019 19:26:07 +1100, you wrote:
If you use Fusion 360 for CAD stuff, you can send a 3D model of your board
to Fusion so you can design an enclosure for it.
In theory if you redesign the board (eg move some LEDs around) those changes
will propagate to Fusion, and your enclosure will update (eg move the
cutouts). I haven't played with that too much to see how well it
actually
works. There's a way to do that in EAGLE that doesn't involve using their
(pay for) services. However, there's significant programming
involved.
You need to take the board file apart, then figure out where the parts
go. Once you do that, you need a 3D model of the part. I use
openSCAD, which allows me to make a color, rotatable 3D image which
can be used to design a case.
If I wanted to, I could also do a 3D print of the board itself, no
colors, of course, but it's possible to do since it *is* a 3D image.
A little parametric work here and there (all resistors devolve to the
same models with slightly different parameters), and you'd be
surprised how many parts you can do.
It's rolling your own, though, and perhaps more work than most would
want to do.
Why do it? I don't want to pay for something I figured I could do
myself, and having a 3D cad model in the same program I use for cases
seemed rather useful.
The cad model includes mounting posts for the boards, and a punchout
which when added to the case, makes the appropriate holes based on the
board layout.
Harvey
Tony
If you can live with the limitations of the free version of EAGLE (all
libraries, 2 layers, 3 * 4 inch boards and one schematic sheet), then
that's free. You may or may not like the interface, but the menus can
(I think), be changed in size for icons.
If in windows, there's always low vision alternatives, but I've never
explored them.
KiCAD is free, has different limitations (it's all free....), and may
be what you might like.
It all depends on the complexity of your boards, the parts you use,
and what you think is simple enough.
Harvey
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Re: who said use gEDA 800 X 600 resolution
Gosh
Den 2019-02-22 kl. 22:37, skrev Harvey White:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Fri, 22 Feb 2019 19:26:07 +1100, you wrote:
If you use Fusion 360 for CAD stuff, you can send a 3D model of your board
to Fusion so you can design an enclosure for it.
In theory if you redesign the board (eg move some LEDs around) those changes
will propagate to Fusion, and your enclosure will update (eg move the
cutouts). I haven't played with that too much to see how well it actually
works. There's a way to do that in EAGLE that doesn't involve using their
(pay for) services. However, there's significant programming
involved.
You need to take the board file apart, then figure out where the parts
go. Once you do that, you need a 3D model of the part. I use
openSCAD, which allows me to make a color, rotatable 3D image which
can be used to design a case.
If I wanted to, I could also do a 3D print of the board itself, no
colors, of course, but it's possible to do since it *is* a 3D image.
A little parametric work here and there (all resistors devolve to the
same models with slightly different parameters), and you'd be
surprised how many parts you can do.
It's rolling your own, though, and perhaps more work than most would
want to do.
Why do it? I don't want to pay for something I figured I could do
myself, and having a 3D cad model in the same program I use for cases
seemed rather useful.
The cad model includes mounting posts for the boards, and a punchout
which when added to the case, makes the appropriate holes based on the
board layout.
Harvey
Tony
If you can live with the limitations of the free version of EAGLE (all
libraries, 2 layers, 3 * 4 inch boards and one schematic sheet), then
that's free. You may or may not like the interface, but the menus can
(I think), be changed in size for icons.
If in windows, there's always low vision alternatives, but I've never
explored them.
KiCAD is free, has different limitations (it's all free....), and may
be what you might like.
It all depends on the complexity of your boards, the parts you use,
and what you think is simple enough.
Harvey
--
mvh / Best Regards
Per-Olof Ahl
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Re: who said use gEDA 800 X 600 resolution
You should check out the combination of Kicad, FreeCAD and the add in module (or "workbench" as they call it) "Kicad StepUp" which links the two. This will allow you to do all of what you are talking about and more, and probably a lot easier. See:
?
You can supposedly import your Eagle projects into Kicad. The installed version of FreeCAD already contains a Workbench that uses OpenSCAD if you want to use that to create 3D models. There is also an add-in Workbench that uses a scripting language like OpenSCAD does which is what they use to create the 3D part models which are already included with Kicad. So, you could modify those without having to start from the ground up.? However, using Kicad StepUp, you can use any 3D Step model you create or download with Kicad.
?
Craig
On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 01:38 PM, Harvey White wrote:
On Fri, 22 Feb 2019 19:26:07 +1100, you wrote:
If you use Fusion 360 for CAD stuff, you can send a 3D model of your board
to Fusion so you can design an enclosure for it.
In theory if you redesign the board (eg move some LEDs around) those changes
will propagate to Fusion, and your enclosure will update (eg move the
cutouts). I haven't played with that too much to see how well it actually
works.
There's a way to do that in EAGLE that doesn't involve using their
(pay for) services. However, there's significant programming
involved.
You need to take the board file apart, then figure out where the parts
go. Once you do that, you need a 3D model of the part. I use
openSCAD, which allows me to make a color, rotatable 3D image which
can be used to design a case.
If I wanted to, I could also do a 3D print of the board itself, no
colors, of course, but it's possible to do since it *is* a 3D image.
A little parametric work here and there (all resistors devolve to the
same models with slightly different parameters), and you'd be
surprised how many parts you can do.
It's rolling your own, though, and perhaps more work than most would
want to do.
Why do it? I don't want to pay for something I figured I could do
myself, and having a 3D cad model in the same program I use for cases
seemed rather useful.
The cad model includes mounting posts for the boards, and a punchout
which when added to the case, makes the appropriate holes based on the
board layout.
Harvey
|
Re: who said use gEDA 800 X 600 resolution
Fusion 360 is free for hobbyist use.
Unlike with Eagle there are no restrictions, so the free version is the same
as the paid one.
(Usual guff about 'that might change', 'but it's cloud based' etc etc goes
here.)
Of course there's a learning curve for both Eagle & Fusion, so if what
you're doing works for you, then carry on. If you do want to learn Fusion,
skip YouTube and follow the tutorials in the Help menu. Not sure about any
Eagle beginners guides.
Tony
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Harvey White
Sent: Saturday, 23 February 2019 8:38 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [homebrewpcbs] who said use gEDA 800 X 600 resolution
On Fri, 22 Feb 2019 19:26:07 +1100, you wrote:
If you use Fusion 360 for CAD stuff, you can send a 3D model of your board to Fusion so you can design an enclosure for it.
In theory if you redesign the board (eg move some LEDs around) those changes
will propagate to Fusion, and your enclosure will update (eg move the
cutouts). I haven't played with that too much to see how well it
actually works. There's a way to do that in EAGLE that doesn't involve using their
(pay for) services. However, there's significant programming
involved.
You need to take the board file apart, then figure out where the parts
go. Once you do that, you need a 3D model of the part. I use
openSCAD, which allows me to make a color, rotatable 3D image which
can be used to design a case.
If I wanted to, I could also do a 3D print of the board itself, no
colors, of course, but it's possible to do since it *is* a 3D image.
A little parametric work here and there (all resistors devolve to the
same models with slightly different parameters), and you'd be
surprised how many parts you can do.
It's rolling your own, though, and perhaps more work than most would
want to do.
Why do it? I don't want to pay for something I figured I could do
myself, and having a 3D cad model in the same program I use for cases
seemed rather useful.
The cad model includes mounting posts for the boards, and a punchout
which when added to the case, makes the appropriate holes based on the
board layout.
Harvey
Tony
If you can live with the limitations of the free version of EAGLE (all
libraries, 2 layers, 3 * 4 inch boards and one schematic sheet), then
that's free. You may or may not like the interface, but the menus can
(I think), be changed in size for icons.
If in windows, there's always low vision alternatives, but I've never
explored them.
KiCAD is free, has different limitations (it's all free....), and may
be what you might like.
It all depends on the complexity of your boards, the parts you use,
and what you think is simple enough.
Harvey
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