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Re: Print on copper

 

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Steve Greenfield <alienrelics@y...> wrote:
--- grantfair2001 <grant.fair@s...> wrote:
There is a commercial product designed to make PCB's
with plotters; [snip]
On a plotter? But you can plot directly onto a PCB
without that extra step. [snip]
Steve Greenfield
Hi Steve and list-

You are right, on a flat-bed plotter you can print direct to PCB, and
that is obviously much better than the system I mentioned in my post.
But, if someone does not have a flat-bed plotter, but does have the
kind where the paper moves back and forth between rollers, then that
method would be of value.

I haven't looked at the links you have provided but will do so with
thanks.

Grant
Re: Direct PCB Plot - would it be helpful?

Alan Marconett KM6VV
 

Hi Jack,

Yes! I'd be interested. I still have my HP7475 from '85, although I
use it only occasionally. Laser printers do such a good job on
schematics now! What "code" do you have? I hate to see them piled up
as surplus, makes me want to take them home with me, and give them a
good home!

All things HPGL would be welcome!

Alan KM6VV


caveteursus wrote:


If there is interest I will put up the HP G/L code on one of my web-
pages. HP/Agilent provides a little support for these old, workhorse
products, but not much. I also have a "fix" for converting the Gerber
output produced by Ultiboard to something which will plot on an
HP7475 in minutes instead of hours.

The old serial plotters go for a few tens of dollars on EBay.

Jack
Re: Direct PCB Plot - would it be helpful?

 

I think I missed something- what HPGL code are you
talking about?

I have a couple of those old HP plotters, both serial.
Thought that might be a good place to start for making
an engraver, use the electronics to drive beefier
drive transistors, steppers, and mechanics to move
something like a Dremel.

Steve

--- caveteursus <j.walton@...> wrote:
If there is interest I will put up the HP G/L code
on one of my web-
pages. HP/Agilent provides a little support for
these old, workhorse
products, but not much. I also have a "fix" for
converting the Gerber
output produced by Ultiboard to something which will
plot on an
HP7475 in minutes instead of hours.

The old serial plotters go for a few tens of dollars
on EBay.

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HP GL/2 (graphics language)

caveteursus
 

I have posted a chunk of the HP Graphics Language on my site:
www.tech-diy.com , i.e. the instruction set, an example etc.
Re: Direct PCB Plot - would it be helpful?

caveteursus
 

If there is interest I will put up the HP G/L code on one of my web-
pages. HP/Agilent provides a little support for these old, workhorse
products, but not much. I also have a "fix" for converting the Gerber
output produced by Ultiboard to something which will plot on an
HP7475 in minutes instead of hours.

The old serial plotters go for a few tens of dollars on EBay.

Jack
Re: Direct PCB Plot.

 

Thanks, just added it to the "Links" area of the list.

--- Alexandre_Guimar?es <alexg@...> wrote:
Hi,

I think everyone on the list should take a look
on this link on the
"direct PCB plot section". Seem pretty much doable,
even more for the
fortunate ones that have a CNC mill around. Regular
size pens could be used.


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Direct PCB Plot.

Alexandre Guimar?es
 

Hi,

I think everyone on the list should take a look on this link on the
"direct PCB plot section". Seem pretty much doable, even more for the
fortunate ones that have a CNC mill around. Regular size pens could be used.



Best regards,
Alexandre Guimaraes
Re: Print on copper

 

--- grantfair2001 <grant.fair@...> wrote:
There is a commercial product designed to make PCB's
with plotters; it
includes the copper. First you plot on the copper
with the right ink,
then you stick the copper to substrate, then you
etch. Jan Axelson's
book on PCB's has the address (I don't have the book
or specifics)
for the materials.
On a plotter? But you can plot directly onto a PCB
without that extra step.

Check out the Links I laboriously added for some on
using a plotter. They give specific part numbers for
the pen and ink to use.

Steve Greenfield


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Print on copper

 

There is a commercial product designed to make PCB's with plotters; it
includes the copper. First you plot on the copper with the right ink,
then you stick the copper to substrate, then you etch. Jan Axelson's
book on PCB's has the address (I don't have the book or specifics)
for the materials.

Grant
My first board

leehanken
 

I had a go at making my first homebrew board last week, using a
marker pen, some etchant and a needle. First I set out the design
using software I borrowed called Easy PC. I printed the pin locations
on transfer paper and ironed it to the back of the board. Then I put
the needle into an electric drill, and made the holes. Next I drew
the tracks onto the copper side, and experimented putting it into
etchant for different lengths of time, until finally the unwanted
copper was gone. Then I rinsed and cleaned it. Okay, I think I learnt
the following:-

1. A needle leaves indentations on both sides of the board. (not good)

2. Life is easier if the holes are far apart.

3. Life is easier if the holes are far apart.
Re: A different Etchtant (was Re: Homebrew PCB mailing list invitation)

 

Original poster: "Malcolm Watts by way of Terry Fritz
<twftesla@...>" <m.j.watts@...>

HI Steve,
The reason I asked was so that I wouldn't
be duplicating
otherwise available information. From the two replies
I've received,
it seems that the mixture I use is not widely known,
so here it is.

The basic mix: 1 part commercial grade hydrogen
peroxide (about 30% I
think), 1 part fuming hydrochloric acid, AND 6 - 8
parts water with
the H2O2 and Hcl separately added *slowly* to the
water. This
concentration gives a useful etching speed. Waste
products are copper
II chloride (soluble with a low pH) and water.

DO's:
- Ventilation when pouring the Hcl out of the bottle
- A *good* impervious resist with no pinholes
- Occasional agitation to release small bubbles from
the surface of
the board
- water at hand to wash yourself if you get acid or
peroxide on your
hands. The peroxide in particular will attack skin
very rapidly
and you'll feel it.

DON'Ts:
- *DO NOT* mix the undiluted acid and peroxide
together. The
mix will produce copious amounts of chlorine (none
will be
produced if the mixing directions above are
followed).
- be tempted to use a strong mix to make etching much
faster.
A strong mix will not only etch a board bare in a
matter of
seconds, it will boil as well (spatter factor).
- be tempted to top up the acid and/or peroxide if
the etching
crawls to dead slow. Make a fresh mix instead.

Too much acid gives the mix a green hue during etching
and too much
peroxide makes the copper appear shiny. Ideal is for
an oystery sheen
to cover the copper if the board is lifted out of the
mix and
drained. If the acid is becoming exhausted, insoluble
blue deposits
appear on the copper. A correct mix will give the
mixture a blue
colour, deepening as more copper is dissolved.

The basic action seems to be that the peroxide
oxidizes the
copper leaving the oxide easy for the acid to deal
with.

Finally, the waste salt can be usefully mixed with
sodium carbonate
(washing soda) or sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) to
make a useful
anti-fungal spray for fruit trees. The result is
copper carbonate
(low solubility) which needs to be washed several
times to remove the
soluble NaCl.

I started using this recipe about 30 years ago and
it is a
winner. No more awful stains or waiting for hours. I
can't claim
originality for it - I first saw it mentioned in a
letter in an
electronics periodical "Practical Electronics".

Regards,
Malcolm

On 11 Dec 2001, at 12:33, Tesla list wrote:

Original poster: "Steve Greenfield by way of Terry
Fritz
<twftesla@...>" <alienrelics@...>

I don't know, you should join and ask. ;')



I've used whatever Radio Shack sells and found at
best
it is adequate, at worst a waste of money and time.
I've also used some dry stuff I think was Ammonium
Persulfate that I was satisfied with.

A colleague told me he's used a weak Nitric Acid mix
to etch boards -very- quickly but you have to be
well
rested, have a lot of ventilation and really be
paying
attention. And your etch resist coating had better
be
complete.

Steve Greenfield

--- Tesla list <tesla@...> wrote:
Original poster: "Malcolm Watts by way of Terry
Fritz <twftesla@...>"
<m.j.watts@...>

Hi Steve,
What etching fluids are used by your
group members?

Regards,
Malcolm
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Re: Homebrew PCB mailing list invitation

 

I don't know, you should join and ask. ;')



I've used whatever Radio Shack sells and found at best
it is adequate, at worst a waste of money and time.
I've also used some dry stuff I think was Ammonium
Persulfate that I was satisfied with.

A colleague told me he's used a weak Nitric Acid mix
to etch boards -very- quickly but you have to be well
rested, have a lot of ventilation and really be paying
attention. And your etch resist coating had better be
complete.

Steve Greenfield

--- Tesla list <tesla@...> wrote:
Original poster: "Malcolm Watts by way of Terry
Fritz <twftesla@...>" <m.j.watts@...>

Hi Steve,
What etching fluids are used by your
group members?

Regards,
Malcolm

On 6 Dec 2001, at 8:03, Tesla list wrote:

Original poster: "Steve Greenfield by way of Terry
Fritz
<twftesla@...>" <alienrelics@...>

I've started a Yahoo Group on making, etching,
soldering printed circuit boards yourself.

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dxf to gcode

victor Faria
 

www.simtel.net/pub/pd/25092.html
I happen to be at the simtel site and ran across this.
I know there has been a discussion about converting pcb layouts to gcode for
cnc milling.
hope this is of help.
regards
victor Faria
New file uploaded to Homebrew_PCBs

[email protected]
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Homebrew_PCBs
group.

File : /PCB Software/PC Logic/Demo limitations and pricing
Uploaded by : alienrelics <alienrelics@...>
Description : No file saving in Demo, see text file for more info

You can access this file at the URL



To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit



Regards,

alienrelics <alienrelics@...>
Re: New file uploaded to Homebrew_PCBs

High Tech
 

I don't do crack. It is a demo the only limit is no save but you can print,
export to cam, metafile, bmp. Has auto router, easy to use interface, will
export nc file and Gerber and many more features. It is also cheap to buy if
you like it. I am not affiliated with these people but I like their product.
I found it while searching on the internet. I have been using one of there
first versions for years. If you need more info go to

Derek B.

-----Original Message-----
From: victor Faria [mailto:victorf@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 3:10 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@...
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] New file uploaded to Homebrew_PCBs


And if it's a demo what's the limitations?
is it crippled in any way?
I think we should know this before we waste our time to download and then
see that it's not of any use to us.
regards
victor
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Greenfield" <alienrelics@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] New file uploaded to Homebrew_PCBs


Is this shareware, freeware, or a crack?

Just a caution to everyone, always run your virus
checker on anything you download and remember that you
still run them at your own risk.

And if anyone ever uploads
"FamousTennisPlayer.jpg.vbs", do -not- click on it.
;')

Steve

--- Homebrew_PCBs@... wrote:

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know
that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the
Homebrew_PCBs
group.

File : /PCB Software/PC Logic/manual.pdf
Uploaded by : hightechsystems1
<hightechsystems@...>
Description : Manual

You can access this file at the URL


manual.pdf

Regards,

hightechsystems1 <hightechsystems@...>

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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Re: Mechanical PCB etching

Alan Marconett KM6VV
 

Hi Bob,

Yes, the DXF files are a good export file for such work. You may also
be able to use .PLT (plot files).

I don't know about new menus in Autocad, I intend to do board design in
Eagle.

Alan KM6VV

Bob Bozarth wrote:


I'm familiar with "DXF" files...Autocad right? I've been using auto cad
for years. This is my first time using it for PCB layout. I've been trying
to get a menu set up within the program to add components a little quicker
than inserting blocks. Another problem I have is getting it from the DWG
file to something I can transfer to a board. I'm new to electronics, and
find PCB design very interesting. Any Ideas?

Bob Bozarth

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Marconett KM6VV" <KM6VV@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@...>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Mechanical PCB etching

Hi Tony!

Yes, surprise, surprise! To do the outlines from a Gerber file, I build
a table of nodes (typically the pads), and add connection data to each
entry. the connection data is the number of the pad to connect to, and
the trace width to use. Other data in the node is the location of the
node, size/type of pad, an the parent pad.

I then "transverse" the "nets" of the list, and output (for now) PLC
code (point, line, circle for Vector) for each arc or line segment
needed to draw a net. Each net must go completely around all pads and
traces that are connected together in a net.

Well, it's working, at least for SIMPLE layouts. No funny "stacks" of
multiple traces on top on one another. Just the simple stuff.

PLC's for now, which quickly allows me to "see" the completed nets,
later it's an easy step to generate gcode instead. It's just as if you
"traced" all around a net. It's been a challenging program to write!

I started off thinking I could generate the outlines of the pads and
traces in Vector CAD/CAM, but anything more then a couple of pads and
traces was either too much for it, or required too much manual selection
to make it work. I have wanted to do this kind of program since I got
my first IBM PC.

Sounds like you're doing a "flood fill" approach. That would remove ALL
the unwanted copper. It could work, however the work I've seen has been
outlines. Eagle can do the outlines, but as I said, I've always wanted
to do this program!

Dolphin sounds interesting, but I'd hate to spend the time (and money)
to learn it, since I'm already using Vector. The free 4-th axis does
sound interesting!

Alan KM6VV

Tony Jeffree wrote:

Hi Alan -

We meet again ;-)

I will be interested to hear how you get on - strikes me that generating
an
outline from Gerber is potentially non-trivial. Would love to make use
of
any results you generate though!

Am also looking at the possibility of using DXF track layout output &
importing that into Dolphin, then treating the tracks as a series of
"islands" for an area clear. Might just work, depending on how smart
Dolphin proves to be, but doing it that way may prove rather (mill) time
consuming compared with the outline approach. Waiting for the CD to
arrive... <sound of drumming fingers...>

Regards,
Tony
Re: New file uploaded to Homebrew_PCBs

victor Faria
 

And if it's a demo what's the limitations?
is it crippled in any way?
I think we should know this before we waste our time to download and then
see that it's not of any use to us.
regards
victor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Greenfield" <alienrelics@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] New file uploaded to Homebrew_PCBs


Is this shareware, freeware, or a crack?

Just a caution to everyone, always run your virus
checker on anything you download and remember that you
still run them at your own risk.

And if anyone ever uploads
"FamousTennisPlayer.jpg.vbs", do -not- click on it.
;')

Steve

--- Homebrew_PCBs@... wrote:

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know
that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the
Homebrew_PCBs
group.

File : /PCB Software/PC Logic/manual.pdf
Uploaded by : hightechsystems1
<hightechsystems@...>
Description : Manual

You can access this file at the URL


manual.pdf

Regards,

hightechsystems1 <hightechsystems@...>

__________________________________________________
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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Re: New file uploaded to Homebrew_PCBs

[email protected]
 

In a message dated 08-Dec-01 16:20:28 Central Standard Time, victorf@...
writes:


is it crippled in any way?
I think we should know this before we waste our time to download and then
see that it's not of any use to us.
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: PICBASIC-L direct PCB board printing

Alexandre Guimar?es
 

I wonder if toner would make a good solder mask, used
this way? Obviously you can't coat the whole board,
but just leaving it on the traces and cleaning it off
the pads could be a great idea.
No way.... It would melt right away and make a mess..

Best regards,
Alexandre Guimaraes
Re: New file uploaded to Homebrew_PCBs

 

Is this shareware, freeware, or a crack?

Just a caution to everyone, always run your virus
checker on anything you download and remember that you
still run them at your own risk.

And if anyone ever uploads
"FamousTennisPlayer.jpg.vbs", do -not- click on it.
;')

Steve

--- Homebrew_PCBs@... wrote:

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know
that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the
Homebrew_PCBs
group.

File : /PCB Software/PC Logic/manual.pdf
Uploaded by : hightechsystems1
<hightechsystems@...>
Description : Manual

You can access this file at the URL



Regards,

hightechsystems1 <hightechsystems@...>

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