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I had trouble with SHARPIE.

and industrial SHARPIE

where it would draw a little bit of black ink and that ink would wet the toner and dissovle the toner and the some toner would stick to the SHARPIE felt tip and then

block ink flow and then just simply push toner off the copper.

That sucked.

More than once.

SO

I followed advice from others here saying throwaway the SHARPIE and use EDDING 404?? and

Staedtler Lumocolor Permanent Markers and I bought a few boxes of those markers and got great results

and never will use a SHARPIE again.

My experimenting with various permanent markers over a 6 month period yielded consistent results.

Every time I would print a circuit I would add a few words or lines or protopads with a dollar store permanent marker

or nail polish or enamel paint.

There was just no comparison.

I consistently etched and watched artwork just disappear.







For my circuits with massive 1/4 inch traces I didn't care if some copper etched off where there was artwork

BUT

if that blank spot happened on a finer line or smaller pad then that would be a disaster.

so

you should grab a bunch makers and figure out what works for you and your chemistry.

Noting that my chemistry is 1 shot of muriatic acid into 2 shots of hydrogen peroxide.

I say shots ... but you could say 50 ml into 100 ml.

Same thing.


My experimenting with KRYLON enamel paint was strictly academic.

I wanted to iron out WHAT EXACTLY could be used instead of just hearing guys say they have used nail polish.

I got wrinkles ...like leaf veins.... when I tried nail polish.

So I figured nail polish was supposed to be enamel paint.....

so

I went straight to enamel paint.

My thinning and ink pen experimenting ws because I was a draftsman and I had India ink pens and knew how to

use them and then immediately wash them with a sonic cleaner

so

IF

I ever don't have a laser printer I thought it would be good to learn how to use the precision drafting pens

that could draw SOIC leads with no errors.

Now back to the subject at hand...All good info but, if I am just starting out and am not worried about trace widths, my job should be easier if I use wide traces at first, right? I remember taking apart old electronics and the traces and solder were absolutely thick. And for starters my projects will be very simple, like a breakout board.

I think I seen where Rob found that Krylon enamel paint was a great resist that could be thinned with lacquer thinner and used in a pen. Does Tinit help any or is that just a corrosion preventative and does anyone use it anymore?

Thanks

On 3/4/2019 10:55 AM, Harvey White wrote:

On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 08:52:31 -0600, you wrote:


If you look at the TRF film, you should see completely opaque areas,
and completely transparent areas.? Any transparent area with speckles
indicates that the film was trying to fill too big a gap.

The only problem with the sharpies is that they either have too large
a tip (and the smaller tips can damage the toner), or they don't put
down enough liquid, and only seal parts.

Depending on how fine the lines are, you can have to go over your
repairs to repair them.

Oh, and the only color that seems to work well is black.

You might want to try the "indelible, permanent, industrial grade" of
sharpie, there does seem to be a difference.


Harvey

On 3/3/2019 8:27 PM, Rob via Groups.Io wrote:

Using the EBAY yellow toner transfer paper



I tried the cheap EBAY TRF :



and just for the fun of it bought the shiny metallic gold TRF

for the grandchildren projects on paper.

more detailed etch process:



Noting that I would rather manually trace ALL of the toner traces with
a felt tip permanent marker

because that way I KNOW if there are any big missing pads or traces.

Pressing TRF will
NOT fix those spots.

Pressing TRF will
fix the porous nature of the toner.

My PRE toner press board preparation consists of sanding with a fine
grit sand paper then washing with pure acetone.

I have gotten very consistent results again and again and again but
once in a while I get a particularly gruesome toner transfer.



with considerably more missing toner spots.

I don't freak out... I know I just run over the traces with a
permanent marker and clean it up.

Good info Rob. The sharpie is our friend. So you are not a fan of the
TRF then I see. I guess if you have thick toner and it all transfers
perfectly then you should be done. But on finer traces etc the TRF may
help, but use a Sharpie for insurance.