?

Yes, in UK, Wales to be precise, not England, and you've got the time difference spot on. As I said in my first reply, precise details of access depend on the model. On T and L series, it's easy. Tip the organ on one end and remove the fibre sound deadening mat and you can easily see inside the generator. You'll need to remove the internal Leslie on some T models, and if the organ has been oiled recently, it will run out of the end of the generator. Rather more difficult on organs where the generator is suspended on springs, M-series, B-3, C-3, A-100 etc. You have to unhook the generator from the springs and possibly disconnect some of the wiring to get enough slack to lift and tilt the generator. I haven't seen many X-77's, but if I remember, the tone generator is more like the L series.

Thanks again Chris ....but now you have my curiousity.? ?You know what I have just done, but I have not explained what I had to do access all the bearings.? What did you have to do to access these bearings ...knowing this is an X-77?? ?We had a C series and then an A100, which I understand is very similar to the B series when considering only the tone wheel generator ....but I never had to dig into the back of any of these models, so I don't know how they compare with the X-77.? Is the X-77 a different beast specific to the tone wheel generator assembly?

You're in England are you not? ...Now 7:00PM ish?

On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 10:37:06 AM PST, Chris Clifton <clifton.christopher@...> wrote:

My understanding is that the original Hammond oil is light enough? to evaporate over a period of years. This will happen whether or not the organ is used, probably it would dry out quicker at higher temperatures, but that's the only environmental factor that would affect it. It could take weeks, or even longer for oil to make its way along the wicks if they have been allowed to completely dry out. I've never had the time to find out, it always made more sense on a service call to oil all the bearings directly, and leave the customer with a fully functioning organ. A customer would, quite rightly, be a little suspicious of a technician who just put oil in the funnels and left, saying, "It'll be fine in a month or so!".

On 03/02/2023 15:20, Wayne Tarling via groups.io wrote:

Thanks again Chris.

Once I am satisfied that the three culprits issue has been solved in some concrete manner, I will be doing exactly have you recommended ...oiling each and every bearing ...from both sides before buttoning up.? ?I have already added a significant qty of oil to the main oil gallery ..twice.? I don't know what "dry" is, so it is hard to know how much oil is needed.

There was a period of several years when the organ indeed did not get used.? Perhaps this is irrelevant when it comes to an "oiling regimen".(?)

I have also heard the about the incorrect oils an the effect is has on "wicking". I have not used anything else but Hammond lube ...so hoping this is not something I will have to contend with. However, the application of a lube directly on bearings should not cause any problems

I am still pursing a "liquid lubricating product" that is designed to address worn bearings.? As it is now, I have successfully eliminated the noise in the bearings, running the organ for several-hour periods, off for several hours, and powering back up.? ?So I am confident I have determined the source of the problem ...I'm yet to be convinced of a "permanent fix".

If anyone knows of a lubricating product that they know would/might be ideal for this application, please feel to jump in.? These organs aren't getting old ...they ARE old and this mechanical part is what Hammond is all about ...along with the Leslie mechanicals.? ? I am now in touch with "Permatex", but I am dealing with someone who may be knowledgeable about lubrication, but not so much application.

If I do find a product for "worn bearings" that would be good for a "repair" of noisy bearings, I will put a post out with some detail of what I have found, for others to evaluate and determine if it is something they could use.

On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 12:26:31 AM PST, Chris Clifton <clifton.christopher@...> wrote:

Where I have come across this in the past, it's always been an organ that has been neglected, not oiled in the regular way for several years. Once the bearings have been oiled, I usually just put a drop on every bearing in the generator, I've always found that normal regular oiling has prevented any recurrence, in some cases, I have been returning to the same organ annually for decades, and not had any further dry bearing problems. I have seen suggestions that using a solvent such as lighter fluid will dissolve waxy residues left in oiling wicks by unsuitable oils, but never had cause to try this myself.

On 02/02/2023 23:40, Wayne Tarling via groups.io wrote:

Thanks for this Chris

You pretty well nailed exactly what I had done.? I did not want to mention this for fear anything said might influence anyone to not respond if they had a different way of tackling this problem.

The organ is the X-77 with both the matching Leslie and a 147.

Trying to isolate an area where the "noise" was coming from, was only guessing when sitting on the bench.? When looking at the assembly from the back, with the top "plate" attached, it was pretty well impossible to see let alone try to figure out a way to identify the culprit bearing(s). The only "easy" way to access under this plate was to cut each of the wires on the "inner side" of the top plate (the side toward the keyboard).? There was only the one lead on this side, on each "bank" going to either a cap or cap/coil assy ....so 24 in all.? This allowed me to lift the one side of the plate to expose the entire tonewheel assembly.

Then using an extension cord (to control power on/off from the back), very quick connection to power just to initiate some "spinning", I could not only immediately confirm the noise coming from the RHS (I'm now at the back looking forward), but immediately straight to the "area" ....as the spin slowed.? I only needed/wanted a slow spin and then coast to a stop, rather than the whole tone wheel area screaming/squealing and noise coming from all over the place ...because the noise can simply transmit down the culprit shaft(s) as well.

I could not tell "which" bearing(s) were making the noise.

Because the bearing noise is likely due to a "dry" condition and also potentially now an over-size or obround shaft/bearing clearance condition, my preference was to use a heavier weight, more viscous oil rather than the Hammond oil.? My understanding is the Hammond oil is designed to used for "wicking". Additives like waxes would eventually hinder the wicking? ....but if applying directly to a bearing, this is not a concern.

I used the most viscous lube I have which is a 30W Way Oil ...which is design to "stick" to/on "ways" found on machine tools (lathes, mills, etc). I used a syringe to apply directly on one bearing at a time ("design of experiments" principles).? I started on the end bearing closest to me, and applied a little lube on both sides (ends) of the bearing and quickly applied power and immediately disconnected ..again, just to get the tonewheel assy turning to make the noise.? This first bearing changed nothing.? This is a "lay shaft", so the opposite end then needed the same treatment. Again, a quick/short power up, changed nothing.

The "next" reachable shaft in this "first bank" was on the opposite side (toward the keys), again, a lay shaft.? When repeating the procedure, I immediately identified a change to the noise from the outside bearing. It was significantly reduced.? I then repeated on the bearing on the opposite end of this lay shaft and the noise all but disappeared.? I had found the primary culprit bearings as being the lay shaft at the opposite end of the drive motor.

However, not ALL the noise was gone. As it turned out, the next bearing, furthest away from oiling point, was on the drive shaft.? An application of oil on this one bearing and ALL the noise was gone.

I have since let the organ run for several hours and turned off to allow it to cool, and repeated this few times now.? There has been one instance where a very faint noise has started, which prompted me to add some lube to all three bearings ...and herein lies the problem of potentially needed to continually need to add lubrication to these three bearings.? ?If this is what needs to be done, then I will design some kind of system that will put lube directly on to these three bearings when needed.

At one point I looked at the entire assy and recognized this is NOT a "friendly" assy to work with. As you pointed out, Hammond would have jigs and fixtures along with a very elaborate assy instruction.

What I am wondering is if there is a lubrication product that is designed to "fill" voids or "over-size" conditions, that might offer some form of a more permanent "repair" to worn bearings. This would be "shaft-to-bearing" fit.? Something that might be perhaps "anerobic"?? ? ? Would anyone know if there is such a product available specifically for worn bearings?? ?I have looked and found different products, but I can't tell if they are for this kind of "repair" or they are meant to be applied to the outside (OD) of the bearing only.

I have used a 30W lubrication with success.? I could easily consider 50W lube as well ...but my quest is a permanent fix.

Anyone have any other ideas?

Thanks

Wayne

PS - now that the tone wheel assembly is fully exposed, I will be applying oil to every bearing from both sides. If may not be necessary, but there should be no harm to doing this ....unless someone knows otherwise.? I look forward to any comments with previous experience/successes.

On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 11:10:11 AM PST, Chris Clifton <clifton.christopher@...> wrote:

Although I've come across several instances of noisy, and even seized bearings, these have all responded to lubrication. Often the best way to get oil where it's needed without waiting for it to make its way through the oiling wicks is to use a syringe to apply a drop of oil directly to each bearing. Depending on the model of organ it may be necessary to disconnect some of the wiring to the generator to be able to move the generator to get access to the underside.

I doubt that there is any practicable way of replacing bearings, the amount of work involved in dismantling, and more importantly reassembling a generator would make it difficult if not impossible to replace bearings. Indeed, I'm by no means certain that it's even possible to reassemble a generator without the original factory tooling and jigs. I'd consider any tone wheel generator that had bearings so badly worn as to require replacement as beyond economic repair

On 02/02/2023 18:07, Wayne Tarling via groups.io wrote:.

Hello Community

I haven't heard much about "bearing problems" in any of the discussions. A few messages about Hammond lube (which I have lots of), but nothing about "failed bearings".

Considering there are some 144 or more bearings, has anyone had a problem with a "failed" bearing?? If so, is there any easy "fix" per se.

I won't go into a lot of detail yet, particularly if there is indeed an easy fix.

If more information is needed, I can certainly provide a lot more detail of what the problem is and what I have done ....so far.

Regards to all.

Wayne

I should add, when I said we had a C and A100 ...that was back in the 60's.

On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 10:58:38 AM PST, Wayne Tarling via groups.io <tarlingw@...> wrote:

Thanks again Chris ....but now you have my curiousity.? ?You know what I have just done, but I have not explained what I had to do access all the bearings.? What did you have to do to access these bearings ...knowing this is an X-77?? ?We had a C series and then an A100, which I understand is very similar to the B series when considering only the tone wheel generator ....but I never had to dig into the back of any of these models, so I don't know how they compare with the X-77.? Is the X-77 a different beast specific to the tone wheel generator assembly?

You're in England are you not? ...Now 7:00PM ish?

On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 10:37:06 AM PST, Chris Clifton <clifton.christopher@...> wrote:

My understanding is that the original Hammond oil is light enough? to evaporate over a period of years. This will happen whether or not the organ is used, probably it would dry out quicker at higher temperatures, but that's the only environmental factor that would affect it. It could take weeks, or even longer for oil to make its way along the wicks if they have been allowed to completely dry out. I've never had the time to find out, it always made more sense on a service call to oil all the bearings directly, and leave the customer with a fully functioning organ. A customer would, quite rightly, be a little suspicious of a technician who just put oil in the funnels and left, saying, "It'll be fine in a month or so!".

On 03/02/2023 15:20, Wayne Tarling via groups.io wrote:

Thanks again Chris.

Once I am satisfied that the three culprits issue has been solved in some concrete manner, I will be doing exactly have you recommended ...oiling each and every bearing ...from both sides before buttoning up.? ?I have already added a significant qty of oil to the main oil gallery ..twice.? I don't know what "dry" is, so it is hard to know how much oil is needed.

There was a period of several years when the organ indeed did not get used.? Perhaps this is irrelevant when it comes to an "oiling regimen".(?)

I have also heard the about the incorrect oils an the effect is has on "wicking". I have not used anything else but Hammond lube ...so hoping this is not something I will have to contend with. However, the application of a lube directly on bearings should not cause any problems

I am still pursing a "liquid lubricating product" that is designed to address worn bearings.? As it is now, I have successfully eliminated the noise in the bearings, running the organ for several-hour periods, off for several hours, and powering back up.? ?So I am confident I have determined the source of the problem ...I'm yet to be convinced of a "permanent fix".

If anyone knows of a lubricating product that they know would/might be ideal for this application, please feel to jump in.? These organs aren't getting old ...they ARE old and this mechanical part is what Hammond is all about ...along with the Leslie mechanicals.? ? I am now in touch with "Permatex", but I am dealing with someone who may be knowledgeable about lubrication, but not so much application.

If I do find a product for "worn bearings" that would be good for a "repair" of noisy bearings, I will put a post out with some detail of what I have found, for others to evaluate and determine if it is something they could use.

On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 12:26:31 AM PST, Chris Clifton <clifton.christopher@...> wrote:

Where I have come across this in the past, it's always been an organ that has been neglected, not oiled in the regular way for several years. Once the bearings have been oiled, I usually just put a drop on every bearing in the generator, I've always found that normal regular oiling has prevented any recurrence, in some cases, I have been returning to the same organ annually for decades, and not had any further dry bearing problems. I have seen suggestions that using a solvent such as lighter fluid will dissolve waxy residues left in oiling wicks by unsuitable oils, but never had cause to try this myself.

On 02/02/2023 23:40, Wayne Tarling via groups.io wrote:

Thanks for this Chris

You pretty well nailed exactly what I had done.? I did not want to mention this for fear anything said might influence anyone to not respond if they had a different way of tackling this problem.

The organ is the X-77 with both the matching Leslie and a 147.

Trying to isolate an area where the "noise" was coming from, was only guessing when sitting on the bench.? When looking at the assembly from the back, with the top "plate" attached, it was pretty well impossible to see let alone try to figure out a way to identify the culprit bearing(s). The only "easy" way to access under this plate was to cut each of the wires on the "inner side" of the top plate (the side toward the keyboard).? There was only the one lead on this side, on each "bank" going to either a cap or cap/coil assy ....so 24 in all.? This allowed me to lift the one side of the plate to expose the entire tonewheel assembly.

Then using an extension cord (to control power on/off from the back), very quick connection to power just to initiate some "spinning", I could not only immediately confirm the noise coming from the RHS (I'm now at the back looking forward), but immediately straight to the "area" ....as the spin slowed.? I only needed/wanted a slow spin and then coast to a stop, rather than the whole tone wheel area screaming/squealing and noise coming from all over the place ...because the noise can simply transmit down the culprit shaft(s) as well.

I could not tell "which" bearing(s) were making the noise.

Because the bearing noise is likely due to a "dry" condition and also potentially now an over-size or obround shaft/bearing clearance condition, my preference was to use a heavier weight, more viscous oil rather than the Hammond oil.? My understanding is the Hammond oil is designed to used for "wicking". Additives like waxes would eventually hinder the wicking? ....but if applying directly to a bearing, this is not a concern.

I used the most viscous lube I have which is a 30W Way Oil ...which is design to "stick" to/on "ways" found on machine tools (lathes, mills, etc). I used a syringe to apply directly on one bearing at a time ("design of experiments" principles).? I started on the end bearing closest to me, and applied a little lube on both sides (ends) of the bearing and quickly applied power and immediately disconnected ..again, just to get the tonewheel assy turning to make the noise.? This first bearing changed nothing.? This is a "lay shaft", so the opposite end then needed the same treatment. Again, a quick/short power up, changed nothing.

The "next" reachable shaft in this "first bank" was on the opposite side (toward the keys), again, a lay shaft.? When repeating the procedure, I immediately identified a change to the noise from the outside bearing. It was significantly reduced.? I then repeated on the bearing on the opposite end of this lay shaft and the noise all but disappeared.? I had found the primary culprit bearings as being the lay shaft at the opposite end of the drive motor.

However, not ALL the noise was gone. As it turned out, the next bearing, furthest away from oiling point, was on the drive shaft.? An application of oil on this one bearing and ALL the noise was gone.

I have since let the organ run for several hours and turned off to allow it to cool, and repeated this few times now.? There has been one instance where a very faint noise has started, which prompted me to add some lube to all three bearings ...and herein lies the problem of potentially needed to continually need to add lubrication to these three bearings.? ?If this is what needs to be done, then I will design some kind of system that will put lube directly on to these three bearings when needed.

At one point I looked at the entire assy and recognized this is NOT a "friendly" assy to work with. As you pointed out, Hammond would have jigs and fixtures along with a very elaborate assy instruction.

What I am wondering is if there is a lubrication product that is designed to "fill" voids or "over-size" conditions, that might offer some form of a more permanent "repair" to worn bearings. This would be "shaft-to-bearing" fit.? Something that might be perhaps "anerobic"?? ? ? Would anyone know if there is such a product available specifically for worn bearings?? ?I have looked and found different products, but I can't tell if they are for this kind of "repair" or they are meant to be applied to the outside (OD) of the bearing only.

I have used a 30W lubrication with success.? I could easily consider 50W lube as well ...but my quest is a permanent fix.

Anyone have any other ideas?

Thanks

Wayne

PS - now that the tone wheel assembly is fully exposed, I will be applying oil to every bearing from both sides. If may not be necessary, but there should be no harm to doing this ....unless someone knows otherwise.? I look forward to any comments with previous experience/successes.

On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 11:10:11 AM PST, Chris Clifton <clifton.christopher@...> wrote:

Although I've come across several instances of noisy, and even seized bearings, these have all responded to lubrication. Often the best way to get oil where it's needed without waiting for it to make its way through the oiling wicks is to use a syringe to apply a drop of oil directly to each bearing. Depending on the model of organ it may be necessary to disconnect some of the wiring to the generator to be able to move the generator to get access to the underside.

I doubt that there is any practicable way of replacing bearings, the amount of work involved in dismantling, and more importantly reassembling a generator would make it difficult if not impossible to replace bearings. Indeed, I'm by no means certain that it's even possible to reassemble a generator without the original factory tooling and jigs. I'd consider any tone wheel generator that had bearings so badly worn as to require replacement as beyond economic repair

On 02/02/2023 18:07, Wayne Tarling via groups.io wrote:.

Hello Community

I haven't heard much about "bearing problems" in any of the discussions. A few messages about Hammond lube (which I have lots of), but nothing about "failed bearings".

Considering there are some 144 or more bearings, has anyone had a problem with a "failed" bearing?? If so, is there any easy "fix" per se.

I won't go into a lot of detail yet, particularly if there is indeed an easy fix.

If more information is needed, I can certainly provide a lot more detail of what the problem is and what I have done ....so far.

Regards to all.

Wayne

Thanks again Chris.

Once I am satisfied that the three culprits issue has been solved in some concrete manner, I will be doing exactly have you recommended ...oiling each and every bearing ...from both sides before buttoning up.? ?I have already added a significant qty of oil to the main oil gallery ..twice.? I don't know what "dry" is, so it is hard to know how much oil is needed.

There was a period of several years when the organ indeed did not get used.? Perhaps this is irrelevant when it comes to an "oiling regimen".(?)

I have also heard the about the incorrect oils an the effect is has on "wicking". I have not used anything else but Hammond lube ...so hoping this is not something I will have to contend with. However, the application of a lube directly on bearings should not cause any problems

I am still pursing a "liquid lubricating product" that is designed to address worn bearings.? As it is now, I have successfully eliminated the noise in the bearings, running the organ for several-hour periods, off for several hours, and powering back up.? ?So I am confident I have determined the source of the problem ...I'm yet to be convinced of a "permanent fix".

If anyone knows of a lubricating product that they know would/might be ideal for this application, please feel to jump in.? These organs aren't getting old ...they ARE old and this mechanical part is what Hammond is all about ...along with the Leslie mechanicals.? ? I am now in touch with "Permatex", but I am dealing with someone who may be knowledgeable about lubrication, but not so much application.

If I do find a product for "worn bearings" that would be good for a "repair" of noisy bearings, I will put a post out with some detail of what I have found, for others to evaluate and determine if it is something they could use.

On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 12:26:31 AM PST, Chris Clifton <clifton.christopher@...> wrote:

Where I have come across this in the past, it's always been an organ that has been neglected, not oiled in the regular way for several years. Once the bearings have been oiled, I usually just put a drop on every bearing in the generator, I've always found that normal regular oiling has prevented any recurrence, in some cases, I have been returning to the same organ annually for decades, and not had any further dry bearing problems. I have seen suggestions that using a solvent such as lighter fluid will dissolve waxy residues left in oiling wicks by unsuitable oils, but never had cause to try this myself.

On 02/02/2023 23:40, Wayne Tarling via groups.io wrote:

Thanks for this Chris

You pretty well nailed exactly what I had done.? I did not want to mention this for fear anything said might influence anyone to not respond if they had a different way of tackling this problem.

The organ is the X-77 with both the matching Leslie and a 147.

Trying to isolate an area where the "noise" was coming from, was only guessing when sitting on the bench.? When looking at the assembly from the back, with the top "plate" attached, it was pretty well impossible to see let alone try to figure out a way to identify the culprit bearing(s). The only "easy" way to access under this plate was to cut each of the wires on the "inner side" of the top plate (the side toward the keyboard).? There was only the one lead on this side, on each "bank" going to either a cap or cap/coil assy ....so 24 in all.? This allowed me to lift the one side of the plate to expose the entire tonewheel assembly.

Then using an extension cord (to control power on/off from the back), very quick connection to power just to initiate some "spinning", I could not only immediately confirm the noise coming from the RHS (I'm now at the back looking forward), but immediately straight to the "area" ....as the spin slowed.? I only needed/wanted a slow spin and then coast to a stop, rather than the whole tone wheel area screaming/squealing and noise coming from all over the place ...because the noise can simply transmit down the culprit shaft(s) as well.

I could not tell "which" bearing(s) were making the noise.

Because the bearing noise is likely due to a "dry" condition and also potentially now an over-size or obround shaft/bearing clearance condition, my preference was to use a heavier weight, more viscous oil rather than the Hammond oil.? My understanding is the Hammond oil is designed to used for "wicking". Additives like waxes would eventually hinder the wicking? ....but if applying directly to a bearing, this is not a concern.

I used the most viscous lube I have which is a 30W Way Oil ...which is design to "stick" to/on "ways" found on machine tools (lathes, mills, etc). I used a syringe to apply directly on one bearing at a time ("design of experiments" principles).? I started on the end bearing closest to me, and applied a little lube on both sides (ends) of the bearing and quickly applied power and immediately disconnected ..again, just to get the tonewheel assy turning to make the noise.? This first bearing changed nothing.? This is a "lay shaft", so the opposite end then needed the same treatment. Again, a quick/short power up, changed nothing.

The "next" reachable shaft in this "first bank" was on the opposite side (toward the keys), again, a lay shaft.? When repeating the procedure, I immediately identified a change to the noise from the outside bearing. It was significantly reduced.? I then repeated on the bearing on the opposite end of this lay shaft and the noise all but disappeared.? I had found the primary culprit bearings as being the lay shaft at the opposite end of the drive motor.

However, not ALL the noise was gone. As it turned out, the next bearing, furthest away from oiling point, was on the drive shaft.? An application of oil on this one bearing and ALL the noise was gone.

I have since let the organ run for several hours and turned off to allow it to cool, and repeated this few times now.? There has been one instance where a very faint noise has started, which prompted me to add some lube to all three bearings ...and herein lies the problem of potentially needed to continually need to add lubrication to these three bearings.? ?If this is what needs to be done, then I will design some kind of system that will put lube directly on to these three bearings when needed.

At one point I looked at the entire assy and recognized this is NOT a "friendly" assy to work with. As you pointed out, Hammond would have jigs and fixtures along with a very elaborate assy instruction.

What I am wondering is if there is a lubrication product that is designed to "fill" voids or "over-size" conditions, that might offer some form of a more permanent "repair" to worn bearings. This would be "shaft-to-bearing" fit.? Something that might be perhaps "anerobic"?? ? ? Would anyone know if there is such a product available specifically for worn bearings?? ?I have looked and found different products, but I can't tell if they are for this kind of "repair" or they are meant to be applied to the outside (OD) of the bearing only.

I have used a 30W lubrication with success.? I could easily consider 50W lube as well ...but my quest is a permanent fix.

Anyone have any other ideas?

Thanks

Wayne

PS - now that the tone wheel assembly is fully exposed, I will be applying oil to every bearing from both sides. If may not be necessary, but there should be no harm to doing this ....unless someone knows otherwise.? I look forward to any comments with previous experience/successes.

On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 11:10:11 AM PST, Chris Clifton <clifton.christopher@...> wrote:

Although I've come across several instances of noisy, and even seized bearings, these have all responded to lubrication. Often the best way to get oil where it's needed without waiting for it to make its way through the oiling wicks is to use a syringe to apply a drop of oil directly to each bearing. Depending on the model of organ it may be necessary to disconnect some of the wiring to the generator to be able to move the generator to get access to the underside.

I doubt that there is any practicable way of replacing bearings, the amount of work involved in dismantling, and more importantly reassembling a generator would make it difficult if not impossible to replace bearings. Indeed, I'm by no means certain that it's even possible to reassemble a generator without the original factory tooling and jigs. I'd consider any tone wheel generator that had bearings so badly worn as to require replacement as beyond economic repair

On 02/02/2023 18:07, Wayne Tarling via groups.io wrote:.

Hello Community

I haven't heard much about "bearing problems" in any of the discussions. A few messages about Hammond lube (which I have lots of), but nothing about "failed bearings".

Considering there are some 144 or more bearings, has anyone had a problem with a "failed" bearing?? If so, is there any easy "fix" per se.

I won't go into a lot of detail yet, particularly if there is indeed an easy fix.

If more information is needed, I can certainly provide a lot more detail of what the problem is and what I have done ....so far.

Regards to all.

Wayne

Thanks for this Chris

You pretty well nailed exactly what I had done.? I did not want to mention this for fear anything said might influence anyone to not respond if they had a different way of tackling this problem.

The organ is the X-77 with both the matching Leslie and a 147.

Trying to isolate an area where the "noise" was coming from, was only guessing when sitting on the bench.? When looking at the assembly from the back, with the top "plate" attached, it was pretty well impossible to see let alone try to figure out a way to identify the culprit bearing(s). The only "easy" way to access under this plate was to cut each of the wires on the "inner side" of the top plate (the side toward the keyboard).? There was only the one lead on this side, on each "bank" going to either a cap or cap/coil assy ....so 24 in all.? This allowed me to lift the one side of the plate to expose the entire tonewheel assembly.

Then using an extension cord (to control power on/off from the back), very quick connection to power just to initiate some "spinning", I could not only immediately confirm the noise coming from the RHS (I'm now at the back looking forward), but immediately straight to the "area" ....as the spin slowed.? I only needed/wanted a slow spin and then coast to a stop, rather than the whole tone wheel area screaming/squealing and noise coming from all over the place ...because the noise can simply transmit down the culprit shaft(s) as well.

I could not tell "which" bearing(s) were making the noise.

Because the bearing noise is likely due to a "dry" condition and also potentially now an over-size or obround shaft/bearing clearance condition, my preference was to use a heavier weight, more viscous oil rather than the Hammond oil.? My understanding is the Hammond oil is designed to used for "wicking". Additives like waxes would eventually hinder the wicking? ....but if applying directly to a bearing, this is not a concern.

I used the most viscous lube I have which is a 30W Way Oil ...which is design to "stick" to/on "ways" found on machine tools (lathes, mills, etc). I used a syringe to apply directly on one bearing at a time ("design of experiments" principles).? I started on the end bearing closest to me, and applied a little lube on both sides (ends) of the bearing and quickly applied power and immediately disconnected ..again, just to get the tonewheel assy turning to make the noise.? This first bearing changed nothing.? This is a "lay shaft", so the opposite end then needed the same treatment. Again, a quick/short power up, changed nothing.

The "next" reachable shaft in this "first bank" was on the opposite side (toward the keys), again, a lay shaft.? When repeating the procedure, I immediately identified a change to the noise from the outside bearing. It was significantly reduced.? I then repeated on the bearing on the opposite end of this lay shaft and the noise all but disappeared.? I had found the primary culprit bearings as being the lay shaft at the opposite end of the drive motor.

However, not ALL the noise was gone. As it turned out, the next bearing, furthest away from oiling point, was on the drive shaft.? An application of oil on this one bearing and ALL the noise was gone.

I have since let the organ run for several hours and turned off to allow it to cool, and repeated this few times now.? There has been one instance where a very faint noise has started, which prompted me to add some lube to all three bearings ...and herein lies the problem of potentially needed to continually need to add lubrication to these three bearings.? ?If this is what needs to be done, then I will design some kind of system that will put lube directly on to these three bearings when needed.

At one point I looked at the entire assy and recognized this is NOT a "friendly" assy to work with. As you pointed out, Hammond would have jigs and fixtures along with a very elaborate assy instruction.

What I am wondering is if there is a lubrication product that is designed to "fill" voids or "over-size" conditions, that might offer some form of a more permanent "repair" to worn bearings. This would be "shaft-to-bearing" fit.? Something that might be perhaps "anerobic"?? ? ? Would anyone know if there is such a product available specifically for worn bearings?? ?I have looked and found different products, but I can't tell if they are for this kind of "repair" or they are meant to be applied to the outside (OD) of the bearing only.

I have used a 30W lubrication with success.? I could easily consider 50W lube as well ...but my quest is a permanent fix.

Anyone have any other ideas?

Thanks

Wayne

PS - now that the tone wheel assembly is fully exposed, I will be applying oil to every bearing from both sides. If may not be necessary, but there should be no harm to doing this ....unless someone knows otherwise.? I look forward to any comments with previous experience/successes.

On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 11:10:11 AM PST, Chris Clifton <clifton.christopher@...> wrote:

Although I've come across several instances of noisy, and even seized bearings, these have all responded to lubrication. Often the best way to get oil where it's needed without waiting for it to make its way through the oiling wicks is to use a syringe to apply a drop of oil directly to each bearing. Depending on the model of organ it may be necessary to disconnect some of the wiring to the generator to be able to move the generator to get access to the underside.

I doubt that there is any practicable way of replacing bearings, the amount of work involved in dismantling, and more importantly reassembling a generator would make it difficult if not impossible to replace bearings. Indeed, I'm by no means certain that it's even possible to reassemble a generator without the original factory tooling and jigs. I'd consider any tone wheel generator that had bearings so badly worn as to require replacement as beyond economic repair

On 02/02/2023 18:07, Wayne Tarling via groups.io wrote:.

Hello Community

I haven't heard much about "bearing problems" in any of the discussions. A few messages about Hammond lube (which I have lots of), but nothing about "failed bearings".

Considering there are some 144 or more bearings, has anyone had a problem with a "failed" bearing?? If so, is there any easy "fix" per se.

I won't go into a lot of detail yet, particularly if there is indeed an easy fix.

If more information is needed, I can certainly provide a lot more detail of what the problem is and what I have done ....so far.

Regards to all.

Wayne