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Re: [hammond_zone] Novice on board

Chris Clifton
 

Hi Macinkilt,
Welcome to the group.
As to your question about the F's on your M3, the notes on the Hammond are
built up from a mixture of frequencies generated by spinning toothed wheels
(hence "tonewheel" generator), the exact mix of frequencies depends on what
drawbars or pre-sets you have selected. The wheels are driven by gears from
a synchronous motor so the overall tuning of the organ is locked to the AC
mains frequency. It is difficult to imagine a scenario where all the wheels
responsible for F notes would go off tune by the same amount as there are no
more than two wheels sharing a common shaft and set of gears. It may be
that you are missing some frequencies and the Bb you are hearing is the
result of the fundamental frequency missing on some notes, and only a
harmonic being heard. You can check out all the tonewheels individually by
pulling out one drawbar at a time and playing one key at a time all the way
up the keyboard. Make a note of any keys that don't play and on which
drawbar and I will be able to help you further. Note that the higher
pitched drawbars do not go all the way up the keyboard and that the black
drawbars do not play unison pitch, i.e.. on the first black drawbar a "C"
key will actually play "G" with a corresponding shift for all other keys.


Chris Clifton

There is a theory which states that if anyone discovers exactly what the
Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be
replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. Douglas Adams

----- Original Message -----
From: "macnkilt" <macinkilt@...>
To: <hammond_zone@...>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 6:47 AM
Subject: [hammond_zone] Novice on board


I am new to th entire Hammond scene, but as a dedicated novice
pianist, I found it hard to resist a very nice condition M3 with
Leslie 45 for $200. Now I'm dividing my time between trying to
learn Piano and Organ... I am glad that I found a group to go to for
support, advice and etc... I'm pretty pleased with the purchase as
both are in great shape and sound very nice save for the following:
All of the 'F's are off (actually regiser as b-flat on tuner) any
suggestions?

Thanks all



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Re: [hammond_zone] BILLY COBHAM "ART OF 3"

 

Roger,
I think we have another zoner from Italy.PozziZanna1974 is from Trestie if i
recall correctly.


Jeff


Re: [hammond_zone] Re: Tone Geneator Theory of Operation.

Raul de Jalapeno
 

Doug:
A special tool is required to remove the dingle arm. This is because it's buried under the lower udatulator plate. This tool, which was Hammon part # B2-02T564, consisted of a stratifed pentagrid plate modulator that would maintain the algebraic relationship of the generator coil flux to the magnetic field set up by the nofer trunnions. With this relationship maintained, the dingle arm can be withdrawn through the fennel orifice with out fear of excessive skor motion.

Raul

----- Original Message -----
From: dug5037
To: hammond_zone@...
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 6:01 AM
Subject: [hammond_zone] Re: Tone Geneator Theory of Operation.


Quote from the article:

""Later versions of the tone generator are equipped to operate nofer
trunnions whenever a barescent skor motion is
required, in conjunction with a drawn reciprocating dingle arm to
reduce sinusoidal depleneration. It may be found that
some earlier generators have had this modification
field-retrofitted." "

This is exactly why the older B-3's sound better than the last models
made--I have seen a retrofit kit to remove the reciprocrating dingle
arm on EBAY--any one know what is involved to remove it? I looked
all over in my T582 and do not see a "Dingle Arm"--Maybe the last
owner already removed it
Doug
T582


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Re: [hammond_zone] drawbar settings

 

Brian,

What does the term"padding "mean.

thanks..jeff


Re: [hammond_zone] Novice on board

Raul de Jalapeno
 

Welcome to the outfit, macnkilt!

Raul

----- Original Message -----
From: macnkilt
To: hammond_zone@...
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 11:47 PM
Subject: [hammond_zone] Novice on board


I am new to th entire Hammond scene, but as a dedicated novice
pianist, I found it hard to resist a very nice condition M3 with
Leslie 45 for $200. Now I'm dividing my time between trying to
learn Piano and Organ... I am glad that I found a group to go to for
support, advice and etc... I'm pretty pleased with the purchase as
both are in great shape and sound very nice save for the following:
All of the 'F's are off (actually regiser as b-flat on tuner) any
suggestions?

Thanks all


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Re: [hammond_zone] G-100 question

Richard B. Ahlvin
 

my G-100 has a "Trompette 8" in the pedal division, and I've played
another one that had a "Bombarde 16" instead. What's the story with that?
Are all G-100's not the same?

I would guess that since it is technicaly rather simple to create a stop
sound (requires a handful of resistors), that Hammond could have easily
customized organs to a certain extent for special customer specifications.

R.Ahlvin


Re: [hammond_zone] stops and couplers versus drawbars

 

OOPS, sorry about that empty post... I hit "send now" rather than "X" when I
wanted to start from scratch.

For an alternative to "take the highest number" check out "Hammond Organ
Additive Synthesis" by Paul Schnellbecker


He explains why his system is superior. He also gives some examples of
"re-programming" the presets - an improved version of the stock presets, and
a set for liturgical use (which is what I put on both my A-105 and the A-100
at my church).

Another page to look at is - a
list of 221 pipe organ stops translated to drawbars. I have a copy of this
document in MS Word format at . I've
tried a few of these at random, I've generally been happy with the results.

Doug


Re: [hammond_zone] G-100 Specifications

Richard B. Ahlvin
 

i think the style of console is called 'klann'.........
Klann was the manufacturer of the G-100 console...(keyboards, mechanical
stop capture action system, coupling system); they're still in business
BTW.
R Ahlvin


Re: [hammond_zone] stops and couplers versus drawbars

 

In a message dated 03/01/2002 1:10:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
organist@... writes:

<< I can't tell you how many organists I've bumped into over the years who
ask me this very same question, "do we add the numbers when adding a stop?",
to which the answer is...NO. In order to create the desired effect, one must
first understand how pipe organs work, and once that is done, then naturally,
adding the numbers will seem 'not the right thing to do'. When you draw stops
on a traditional organ, you're not necessarily making the ensemble louder.

I posted the list of stops and their drawbar equivalents for two reasons.
First, it's nice to see how all the different stops can be produced using the
drawbars, and also to help people out when it comes to adding a certain stop
to the ensemble. While stops cannot be drawn on the Hammond organ one after
the other to produce a 'combination' of registers, the effect of a
combination can be achieved, but in a different manner. The largest number
for each harmonic becomes the proper intensity in the final ensemble. >>


Re: Tone Geneator Theory of Operation.

dug5037
 

Quote from the article:

""Later versions of the tone generator are equipped to operate nofer
trunnions whenever a barescent skor motion is
required, in conjunction with a drawn reciprocating dingle arm to
reduce sinusoidal depleneration. It may be found that
some earlier generators have had this modification
field-retrofitted." "

This is exactly why the older B-3's sound better than the last models
made--I have seen a retrofit kit to remove the reciprocrating dingle
arm on EBAY--any one know what is involved to remove it? I looked
all over in my T582 and do not see a "Dingle Arm"--Maybe the last
owner already removed it
Doug
T582


Re: [hammond_zone] Digest Number 416

 

Carlo,

all these charts of translated pipe organ stops to hammond drawbars sound pretty good, as long as you want to hear them still alone. But as you might know, in classical music you have to mix stops like Fifteenth 2....00 0002 223, Flageolet 2....00 0004 112, Nazard 2 2/3....00 0040 030 or Tierce 1 3/5....00 0000 500 with fond stops almost beginning from the 8'- or even 16'-ranks.

So on a hammond you can't simply add the numbers, like you do with the stops of a pipe organ, but you must listen carefully to the hole sound of all mixed stops and then try to reproduce it with your hammond and the slow choral speed of your leslie(s). Do it with the help of your ears, not by lists!

Nevertheless you won't get the real pipe-organ sound. Perhaps people are impressed first, but if they would have a direct comparison at the same location with a real pipe-organ - no computer-clone - they could hear the differences very soon.

But why copying pipe-organs with hammonds, these trials have failed always since the first attempts of Laurens Hammond and others?

I like playing Frescobaldi, Bach, Mendelssohn, Franck, Reger, Karg-Elert a.o. on my XB-3 with a 32-tone-AGO-midi-pedal made by Doepfer/Manger with additional stops from a XB-2 placed on the XB-3 like a third manual. Mostly I use 00888-basic and add a little bit of 4' and 2' to the great, 2 2/3', 1 3/5' and 1 1/3' to the swell and some others to the solo if needed.
I always thinking of using the higher overtones like spices in the kitchen...

My dream would be a good Hammond-Concert-Modell E, builded from 1937 till 1942 with 32-note pedalboard, chorus generator and two expression pedals...

Last year, I had the oportunity to hear a RT-3, which was for sale with PR-40 and Leslie 760, but although it had only little technical defects, the sound didn't impress me too much. So I made my decision for the XB-3 and a modified Leslie 723.

Sincerely,

Hans-Bernd

Message: 24
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 00:00:57 -0500
From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@...>
Subject: Romantic Organ

SWELL
Gedeckt 16....32 2000 000
Geigen Diapason 8....00 4743 221
Stopped Diapason 8....00 5141 100
Aeoline 8....00 2311 000
Salicional 8....00 2433 222
Viol Da Gamba 8....00 2423 221
Voix Celeste 8....00 2434 432
Octave Geigen 4....00 0414 231
Traverse Flute 4....00 0601 010
Fifteenth 2....00 0002 223
Cornet V....00 4446 533
Oboe 8...00 4764 210
Trumpet 8....00 6867 531
Clarion 4....00 0545 452
Double Trumpet 16....36 6420 000
Vox Humana 8....00 3453 542

CHOIR
Dulciana 8....00 3320 000
Unda Maris 8....00 3421 000
Melodia 8....00 5200 000
Concert Flute 8....00 4511 000
Diapason 8....00 3412 210
Orchestral Flute 8....00 0805 000
Flute D'Amour 4....00 0501 000
Principal 4....00 0415 112
Flageolet 2....00 0004 112
Nazard 2 2/3....00 0040 030
Tierce 1 3/5....00 0000 500
Clarinet 8....00 7462 420

SOLO
French Horn 8....00 7531 000
English Horn 8....00 3744 320
Grosse Flute 8....00 8723 100
Tromba 8....00 6868 642
Bassoon 8....08 7500 000
Heckelphone 8....00 6776 400

GREAT
1st Open Diapason 8....00 6634 221
2nd Open Diapason 8....00 6433 322
Hohl Flute 8....00 5311 000
Gemshorn 8....00 3511 110
Octave 4....00 055 342
Flute Triangulaire 4....00 0503 010
Super Octave 2....00 0006 234
Mixture IV....00 0564 123
Tromba 8....01 6554 430


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 25
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 00:04:21 -0500
From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@...>
Subject: more stops

a few more stops found on pipe organs..........

Harmonic Flute 4....00 0804 011
Piccolo 2....00 0006 132
Siffloete 1....00 0000 005
Contra Fagotte 16....17 5321 000

Quintadena 16....23 0000 000

Larigot 1 1/3....00 0000 060



Tonewheel description

marc saint-f¨¦lix
 

Hi all,
I'm looking for a technical decription of the tonewheels operating principles. I need something which develops two orientations : mechanics (wheels, clutches, shafts,...) and electrics (mostly electromagnetic fields involved in TWG). I already checked a couple sites like prokeys, they have nice pictures btw, but I'd like more "scientific" descriptions.
I need this for my electro-mechanical class. They want us to introduce an electro-mechanical device, I didn't have to think for too long to find a topic!!
By the way, the prokeys site is at . Please tell me this guy is excessively pessimistic and tell me I will play my B3 for the next 30 years with no problem!! If you read this article you will probably all look at your tonewheel generator as a rusty old piece of trash waiting for death but already burried in a moth-eaten coffin....
Thanks,

Marc.


Re: [hammond_zone] re: A Whiter Shade Of Pale

 

cheers

--- Peter D Abrams <pabrams@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>


<tt>
<a
href="></a><BR>
<BR>
Alex Poole wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
PS do you have a URL for Matthew Fisher's web
site?<BR>
Don't think I've seen that one?<BR>
<BR>
Cheers,<BR>
Alex<BR>
<BR>
--- Alex Poole <alexfpoole@...>
wrote:<BR>
<HR><BR>
<html><body><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<tt><BR>
I've also read the same on a 'site somewhere.
<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>
Just having listened to the tra<BR>
<BR>
</tt>


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Re: [hammond_zone] need help with leslie 147 amp

Chris Clifton
 

Tim,
When the 200mfd. cap failed, (it almost certainly has been destroyed by the
reverse voltage) it would have changed the bias on the output valves (tubes)
as you shut the power off quickly it is probable that no harm will have been
done to the valves. The purpose of this cap. is to decouple (remove any
signal voltage from) the 150 ohm 10 watt cathode bias resistor for the 6550
valves. Source for 200 mfd. 50 volt cap? Radio shack? Do they still do
components? Ask your local TV and radio repair shop, if they haven't got
the part in stock, they could probably order one from their suppliers.
Nearest equivalent in modern component range would be 220 mfd 63 volt, this
will do just fine. I've just looked in the "Maplin" catalogue (UK
equivalent of Radio Shack) 220 mfd 63 volt is ???0.15, cheap enough to change
anyway. How long to "soak test" when you've finished repair? How long is a
piece of string? Within reason the longer the better, most problems are
likely to show within an hour, remember all the original components have had
many years to "burn in" so it's not as if you're testing a whole load of new
parts. If it's not smoking after a couple of hours it'll likely go another
30-40 years. Might be a good idea to consider changing the rest of the
electrolytic capacitors at some time though.


Chris Clifton

There is a theory which states that if anyone discovers exactly what the
Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be
replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. Douglas Adams

----- Original Message -----
From: "sixd5bassman" <sixd5bassman@...>
To: <hammond_zone@...>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 8:31 AM
Subject: [hammond_zone] need help with leslie 147 amp


Hi fellow hammond zoners,
I just got a leslie 145 that apears to be in really clean shape
inside and out, there is literaly no dust in this thing at all.
It came out of a church along w/ a matching M3.
The pastor had just transfered to that church and found the organ and
leslie in non functional condition, he sent an email to a friend of
his in another state ( this friend had asked him to look for old
hammonds at the church)and asked him to come and haul away the rig
for free. Well he did, and then sold it to me for a song.
Before I bought it he inspected the amp but never fired it up.
he found a 200 mfd. 50V electrolytic capacitor rolling around under-
neath the amp chassis.
I looked at the schematic and parts list and determined that this was
C9 and it had broken of. So I soldered it back on, and started to
bring it up to 120V on my variac (1V per minute) Well I got to 90V
and started to hear a hissing sound coming out from underneath the
chassis, then I heard a sound that bad lighting ballasts make
(a 60Hz hum) but it sounded like it was coming out of the power
transformer. I shut of the Variac right away, Then I touched all of
the transformers, only the power transformer was hot, I also touched
the C9 it also was very hot, I forgot to touch the can capacitor.I am
very thankfull there was no smoke. After all of this I looked at the
schematic again and realized that I had soldered the cap with the
positive lead to ground instead of the negative to ground like it
should be.
Needless to say I feel really stupid because I thought that I checked
that.
My first question is did I cause severe damage to the amp by doing
this?
I only had it up to 90V
Also can I remove the C9 and solder it on properly, or has that been
damaged by this?
What is the function of this capacitor?
Where can I find a good replacment 200 mfd. 50V electrolytic?
What is the best duration of time to variac the 147 amp once I've
replaced the capacitor?
Any help with this matter would be greatly welcome, I can't wait to
get this baby fired up.
And on a lighter note I oiled up the motors and hooked them up to my
homemade switching system, then rigged the speakers W/ the crossover
to a 15 watt fender guitar amp... It sounded great and loud to boot.

Thanks alot, Tim aka '65 bassman



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need help with leslie 147 amp

 

Hi fellow hammond zoners,
I just got a leslie 145 that apears to be in really clean shape
inside and out, there is literaly no dust in this thing at all.
It came out of a church along w/ a matching M3.
The pastor had just transfered to that church and found the organ and
leslie in non functional condition, he sent an email to a friend of
his in another state ( this friend had asked him to look for old
hammonds at the church)and asked him to come and haul away the rig
for free. Well he did, and then sold it to me for a song.
Before I bought it he inspected the amp but never fired it up.
he found a 200 mfd. 50V electrolytic capacitor rolling around under-
neath the amp chassis.
I looked at the schematic and parts list and determined that this was
C9 and it had broken of. So I soldered it back on, and started to
bring it up to 120V on my variac (1V per minute) Well I got to 90V
and started to hear a hissing sound coming out from underneath the
chassis, then I heard a sound that bad lighting ballasts make
(a 60Hz hum) but it sounded like it was coming out of the power
transformer. I shut of the Variac right away, Then I touched all of
the transformers, only the power transformer was hot, I also touched
the C9 it also was very hot, I forgot to touch the can capacitor.I am
very thankfull there was no smoke. After all of this I looked at the
schematic again and realized that I had soldered the cap with the
positive lead to ground instead of the negative to ground like it
should be.
Needless to say I feel really stupid because I thought that I checked
that.
My first question is did I cause severe damage to the amp by doing
this?
I only had it up to 90V
Also can I remove the C9 and solder it on properly, or has that been
damaged by this?
What is the function of this capacitor?
Where can I find a good replacment 200 mfd. 50V electrolytic?
What is the best duration of time to variac the 147 amp once I've
replaced the capacitor?
Any help with this matter would be greatly welcome, I can't wait to
get this baby fired up.
And on a lighter note I oiled up the motors and hooked them up to my
homemade switching system, then rigged the speakers W/ the crossover
to a 15 watt fender guitar amp... It sounded great and loud to boot.

Thanks alot, Tim aka '65 bassman


Re: I'll Try again sry bad link

t402_owner
 

Is *that* English? Can we go back to French please? Swedish anyone?
Bork bork bork???

t4oh2

--- In hammond_zone@y..., "ronbell145" <worthogis@s...> wrote:
It is manditory reading for everyone, and there will be a test to
follow;)

Ron.



"Raul de Jalapeno" wrote:
Ron...what is that....it's....it's....just WHAT is it??

Raul


Re: [hammond_zone] Tonewheel description

 

You can find some information here:

Doug


Re: [hammond_zone] RE: A Whiter Shade Of Pale

Chris Clifton
 

I can remember seeing the band on "Top of the Pops", they definitely used a
Hammond spinet, can't remember enough detail to identify the model. In
those days the BBC still had that quaint old fashioned idea that records
should reproduce a live performance, not the other way round. Acts
appearing on T of the P had to perform live in the TV studio, miming to the
record was not allowed!!!


Chris Clifton

There is a theory which states that if anyone discovers exactly what the
Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be
replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. Douglas Adams

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Poole" <alexfpoole@...>
To: <hammond_zone@...>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 1:02 AM
Subject: [hammond_zone] RE: A Whiter Shade Of Pale


I've also read the same on a 'site somewhere.

Just having listened to the track, I see no reason why
the rumours couldn't be true....The M certainly sounds
great with my uncool (900) Leslie so with the 147/122
it must be tops. The B/C is a must if you want
reasonably low bass with your LH however, no way
around that one; although the M's & L's can still do
99% of the same sounds if you;re not worried about the
bottom octave....
Cheers, Alex
--- Amanda Hambidge <m0dzo@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>


<tt>
<BR>
Hi all fellow Hammondeers!<BR>
<BR>
If you look at Matthew Fisher's web site he states
quite categorically<BR>
that the organ used on this track was indeed an M
series organ, an M102<BR>
if I remember correctly. <BR>
<BR>
A friend of mine used to do organ club gigs on an L100
with a 145 Leslie<BR>
and also he had a regular gig at a restaurant called
the "Fleur De Lys"<BR>
near Walsall England and it became a bit of a mecca
for organ nuts, the<BR>
organ there was an L100 with a 122 Leslie and very
good it sounded too,<BR>
he produced some pretty good bluesy sounds and
although no1t up to the<BR>
standard of the C3 or B3 it was easier to carry around
split than the C<BR>
or B would have been.<BR>
<BR>
Best Wishes to all.<BR>
<BR>
Amanda Hambidge<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

<br>

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Re: [hammond_zone] drawbar settings

Brian Williams
 

Thanks for the clarification

Godbless,

Brian


From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@...>
Reply-To: hammond_zone@...
To: <hammond_zone@...>
Subject: Re: [hammond_zone] drawbar settings
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 02:49:12 -0500

Brian,

I understand your point. I've been to many protestant churches, both as a member of the congregation, and as an organist. My comments are coming from the angle of someone who's a concert organist................

carlo






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Re: [hammond_zone] drawbar settings

Carlo Pietroniro
 

Brian,

I understand your point. I've been to many protestant churches, both as a member of the congregation, and as an organist. My comments are coming from the angle of someone who's a concert organist................

carlo