Re: #VMCE #rexx EE goes XEDIT - compiling a wish list
#VMCE
#rexx
On Sat, Sep 14, 2024 at 02:39 PM, Martin Scheffler wrote:
It is very important to understand the difference between STATIC and DYNAMIC linking against the GCC library.
Due to an error in FSLINK EXEC on the MECAFF userid all MECAFF modules included in VM/370 Community Edition V1R1.2 are statically linked.
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FSLINK EXEC on MCF294 has GLOBAL TXTLIB GCCLIB in both cases, but should have GLOBAL TXTLIB GCCRES for dynamic linking. Obviously EE$D MODULE Y2 and EE$S MODULE Y2 do not differ in size since both are statically linked.
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Martin
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Re: #VMCE #rexx EE goes XEDIT - compiling a wish list
#VMCE
#rexx
I am preparing to distribute a bleeding edge preview of EE which can be loaded in high memory using RESLIB.
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It is very important to understand the difference between STATIC and DYNAMIC linking against the GCC library.
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DYNAMIC linking only works if issue has been solved on your installation of VM/370 Community Edition V1R1.2 , otherwise EE and bREXX will malfunction in unpredictable ways.
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I intend to include the following EXEC to install EE in high memory:
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/* REXX */ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
parse arg dyn_stat ee_name extra ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
if (dyn_stat <> "DYNAMIC") & (dyn_stat <> "STATIC") then do ? ? ? ? ? ??
? say "Usage: EER$LOAD <mode> [<name>]" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
? say "" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? say "<mode> must be DYNAMIC or STATIC (upper case, not abbreviated)" ?
? say "" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? say "<name> is optional, defaults are" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? say " ?EE$D for DYNAMIC linking" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? say " ?EE$S for STATIC ?linking" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? exit 24 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
end ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
if extra <> "" then say "Extraneous argument(s) ignored:" extra ? ? ? ??
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
if (dyn_stat = "DYNAMIC") then do ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
? library = "GCCRES" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? if ee_name = "" then ee_name = "EE$D" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
end ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
if (dyn_stat = "STATIC") then do ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? library = "GCCLIB" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? if ee_name = "" then ee_name = "EE$S" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
end ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
address "COMMAND" "RESLIB DELETE" ee_name ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
address "COMMAND" "GLOBAL TXTLIB" library ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
address "COMMAND" "RESLIB LOAD EERESLIB (NAME" ee_name ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
if rc <> 0 then exit rc ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
address "COMMAND" "RESLIB LIST" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
exit rc ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
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Martin
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Re: How to setup DASDs sharing correctly between two z/VMs under Hercules.
On Sat, Sep 14, 2024 at 04:42 AM, Tony Harminc wrote:
[...]
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Whilst I know nothing about ADABAS generally zVM does not implement Multi-write DASD sharing.? ?
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Really? You're talking about the real DASD, right? Since it certainly implements guest sharing with multi-write.
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I meant CMS not zVM. Thats where the muddle came. I read it as he was using exactly the same system disks for everything.
You can't do that each zVM needs its own disks..
Of course if you have a guest that supports reserve/release then you can share DASD between virtual or physical machines.
?
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I guess the question is "what's to implement ?". Since the guests are responsible for integrity with multi-write sharing, surely that can just be passed through to the real disks; if the guest issues a reserve or a release against a virtual disk, why wouldn't VM just pass that to the real device? Or of course the guest can use some other communication mechanism (CTC?) to control things safely.
?
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How many guests support this??
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How do I set up shared access to DASDs correctly in my case?
I would expect there to be one instance of ADABAS and for multiple clients to connect to that one instance using TCP/IP or IUCV
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I feels to me that there is some muddling here between shared at the Hercules level and shared at the VM guest level.?
?
?
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It doesn't matter, if there is no support for reserve/release or some other locking mechanism then its irrelevant if its at the Hercules or VM Guest level.
If there is support then you would need to use the "Hercules Shared Device Server" support as per...
?
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but I am pretty sure the stuff he is talking about wouldn't work in that environment.
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Re: How to setup DASDs sharing correctly between two z/VMs under Hercules.
[...]
Whilst I know nothing about ADABAS generally zVM does not implement Multi-write DASD sharing.? ?
Really? You're talking about the real DASD, right? Since it certainly implements guest sharing with multi-write.
I guess the question is "what's to implement ?". Since the guests are responsible for integrity with multi-write sharing, surely that can just be passed through to the real disks; if the guest issues a reserve or a release against a virtual disk, why wouldn't VM just pass that to the real device? Or of course the guest can use some other communication mechanism (CTC?) to control things safely.
How do I set up shared access to DASDs correctly in my case?
I would expect there to be one instance of ADABAS and for multiple clients to connect to that one instance using TCP/IP or IUCV
I feels to me that there is some muddling here between shared at the Hercules level and shared at the VM guest level.?
Dave
Tony H.
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Re: How to setup DASDs sharing correctly between two z/VMs under Hercules.
On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 09:51 AM, Evgenii Shikhovtsev wrote:
Hello!
Sorry for my bad English.
I use one Hercules' instance for Share Device Server.
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One Hercules' instance should use DASDs with read-write access, the second Hercules' instance should use DASDs with read-only access.
In Hercules' config for second Hercules' instance i define these DASDs as "READONLY FAKEWRITE".
In z/VM's SYSTEM CONFIG i deifne theseDASDs as "RDEV ... SHARED YES MDC OFF".
In z/VM's DIRECTORY minidisks on these DASDs are defined as "MDISK .... MWV ..."
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Now I start Hercules' instances on the same PC under Windows 10, but in the future Hercules' instances should run on different servers under Linux.
?
These DASDs are used by the DBMS ADABAS. When I make changes in one Hercules instance, the changes are not displayed in another Hercules instance.
But if DASDs with changes are copied to another server where ADABAS is running, without closing the ADABAS nucleus, without rebooting Hercules or re-ipl z/VM, detach-attach DASDs, JUST COPY, then the changes will be visible immediately. ADABAS uses minidisks, but uses its own input/output.
?
§³an i set up DASDs sharing so that changes are visible immediately?
?
Whilst I know nothing about ADABAS generally zVM does not implement Multi-write DASD sharing.? ?
?
How do I set up shared access to DASDs correctly in my case?
?
?
I would expect there to be one instance of ADABAS and for multiple clients to connect to that one instance using TCP/IP or IUCV
?
?
Thanks in advance.
?
?
Dave
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Re: Contributing to, Building, and Maintaining VM370CE
#VMCE
Hello! I want us to keep doing things. And Ross I believe we've met over a screen running xedit inside X3270, but the host was clear across the show space's floor, and Javitts is very big. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@... "This signature was present when the impossible happened 23 years ago, twice." On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 12:28?PM Ken Dreger via groups.io <kendreger@...> wrote:
I second to keep it...
On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 8:26?PM Mark A. Stevens via groups.io <marXtevens@...> wrote:
On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 04:32 PM, Mike Rankin wrote:
In favor of - "is there really any serious interest in continuing the "Community Edition" idea?¡±
Aye!
... Mark S.
--
Ken Dreger
"As he piloted the fighter with the Jedi Knight as his wingman in his own fighter he wondered what was the motivating action behind joining them on this part of the Clone Wars. All he remembered was the two day fast course on how to fly this particular fighter, and noted that it responded in much the same way as all of the others he's flown." From a Timelord's travels with the Jedi Knights during the Clone Wars a still unpublished memoir.
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Re: Contributing to, Building, and Maintaining VM370CE
#VMCE
Me too - I think it is very important for the people who love VM and Rexx but are not inclined to do peacemeal updates of these environments - due to lack of expercience or lack of time. We should try to move it forward and having 'nightlies' available to be able to test interactions of new levels of software are very important.
With the BREXX fixes and the work done on EE it is already a very representative and usable environment; I hope someone with the right skills and motivation can take over from Bob.
Looking at MVS TK5, it is very successful in that an update can be done which leaves intact the modifications one did to it (adding your own favourite historical userid et cetera) or choose a whole new distribution with the latest and greatest. I hope to see that also for VM/CE. A particular requirement would be to be able to painlessy connect to the new BITNET (HNET) - I know Bob left us a script for that, but personally I never got that to run; did some work with RSCS but apparently not enough.
Also, I absolutely love to be able to use and experiment with the old language tools - COBOL, FORTRAN, SNOBOL, ALGOL - would love to see the addition of SIMULA370 and some more. Be able to run BREXX is an absolute dream, and whatever we can do to connect that even more with CMS should be wonderful.
best regards,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 13 Sep 2024, at 18:23, Ken Dreger <kendreger@...> wrote:
I second to keep it... On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 8:26?PM Mark A. Stevens via <marXtevens= [email protected]> wrote: On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 04:32 PM, Mike Rankin wrote:
In favor of - "is there really any serious interest in continuing the "Community Edition" idea?¡±
Aye!
?
?... Mark S.
?
--
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See below,
Harold Grovesteen
On 9/12/24 17:45, Bob Polmanter wrote:
Mark,
?
It is not just XNET, it is the nature of the beast.?
When a CTC device has an i/o in progress, the entire channel
is busy; if there are other devices on the channel, whether they
are other CTCs or any other device, they will be unable to do
i/o or receive interruptions during the CTC i/o.
That is interesting.? I have never worked with a CTC at this
level.? Was unaware that is how the CTC works.? I would of course
expect the software to work that way.? As I said, though, I doubt
Hercules will ever have the channel appear busy.? Putting CTC's on
different channels might keep the software from getting confused
in some way.
Thanks for the insight!
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So if you are using 500 for XNET, then I would recommend you
put RSCS's CTC on 600 or some other channel.? But if you are
aware of the possible reduction in throughput on a CTC channel,
then yes you could also put RSCS's CTC on channel 5.
?
The other thing is that our systems are small and generally
just single user, so the number of i/os issued by XNET across
the channel isn't going to be much of an impact.? XNET doesnt do
any "heartbeat" i/o, so if you are not doing anything at your
3270 terminal dialed to XNET, then there is no idle-time CTC
i/o.
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Regards,
Bob
?
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Re: Contributing to, Building, and Maintaining VM370CE
#VMCE
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 8:26?PM Mark A. Stevens via <marXtevens= [email protected]> wrote: On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 04:32 PM, Mike Rankin wrote:
In favor of - "is there really any serious interest in continuing the "Community Edition" idea?¡±
Aye!
?
?... Mark S.
?
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How to setup DASDs sharing correctly between two z/VMs under Hercules.
Hello!
Sorry for my bad English.
I use one Hercules' instance for Share Device Server.
?
One Hercules' instance should use DASDs with read-write access, the second Hercules' instance should use DASDs with read-only access.
In Hercules' config for second Hercules' instance i define these DASDs as "READONLY FAKEWRITE".
In z/VM's SYSTEM CONFIG i deifne theseDASDs as "RDEV ... SHARED YES MDC OFF".
In z/VM's DIRECTORY minidisks on these DASDs are defined as "MDISK .... MWV ..."
?
Now I start Hercules' instances on the same PC under Windows 10, but in the future Hercules' instances should run on different servers under Linux.
?
These DASDs are used by the DBMS ADABAS. When I make changes in one Hercules instance, the changes are not displayed in another Hercules instance.
But if DASDs with changes are copied to another server where ADABAS is running, without closing the ADABAS nucleus, without rebooting Hercules or re-ipl z/VM, detach-attach DASDs, JUST COPY, then the changes will be visible immediately. ADABAS uses minidisks, but uses its own input/output.
?
§³an i set up DASDs sharing so that changes are visible immediately?
How do I set up shared access to DASDs correctly in my case?
?
Thanks in advance.
|
Re: #VMCE #rexx EE goes XEDIT - compiling a wish list
#VMCE
#rexx
On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 03:22 AM, Mark A. Stevens wrote:
... has anyone tried to install SEDIT from the CIA?
I have transferred the archive and looked at the list of files, but I do not have an empty minidisk at hands.
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I am still busy with some nasty bugs in EE, which prevent a new bleeding edge release.
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And you want instructions ... there is the question if to use the new help system or the small EE internal help.
Since EE can now run in high memory via RESLIB, the new help system can be called from within EE if EE is running in high memory.
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EE now checks if it is running in the user area at 020000 ... and all CMS command restrictions are lifted if EE is running in high memory.
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Martin
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Re: Contributing to, Building, and Maintaining VM370CE
#VMCE
On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 02:02 AM, William Denton wrote:
I really don't know why but I have always thought of PF10 as being the RETRIEVE key... don't know where that came from
It would be possible to set up a first run EXEC that would let you choose the PF key of your choice, for RETRIEVE. and probably anything else.
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Volunteers?
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... Mark S.
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Re: Contributing to, Building, and Maintaining VM370CE
#VMCE
On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 04:32 PM, Mike Rankin wrote:
In favor of - "is there really any serious interest in continuing the "Community Edition" idea?¡±
Aye!
?
?... Mark S.
?
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Re: #VMCE #rexx EE goes XEDIT - compiling a wish list
#VMCE
#rexx
On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 12:57 PM, Dave Wade wrote:
There are lists of all the mods on the MAINT disk¡..
I found the files that list the changes to VM/370, so now I have a better understanding of what is present/absent.
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Not to put as damper on Martin's efforts, as I use EE and FSVIEW daily, has anyone tried to install SEDIT from the CIA?
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?... Mark S.
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Mark,
?
It is not just XNET, it is the nature of the beast.? When a CTC device has an i/o in progress, the entire channel is busy; if there are other devices on the channel, whether they are other CTCs or any other device, they will be unable to do i/o or receive interruptions during the CTC i/o.
?
So if you are using 500 for XNET, then I would recommend you put RSCS's CTC on 600 or some other channel.? But if you are aware of the possible reduction in throughput on a CTC channel, then yes you could also put RSCS's CTC on channel 5.
?
The other thing is that our systems are small and generally just single user, so the number of i/os issued by XNET across the channel isn't going to be much of an impact.? XNET doesnt do any "heartbeat" i/o, so if you are not doing anything at your 3270 terminal dialed to XNET, then there is no idle-time CTC i/o.
?
Regards,
Bob
?
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The channel does not actually exist in Hercules.? It started out
as an ESA/390 emulator so initially the channel subsystem was
implemented for subchannel I/O.? Later, support for S/370 was
added and the channel I/O commands were added as a wrapper to the
already existing channel subsystem.? The channel subsystem does
not report the channel busy.
There was an effort to emulate channels, but that did not make it
into Hercules.
So from Hercules stand point, it does not matter.
From the perspective of the guest operating system running in
Hercules, VM, it might care.
Harold Grovesteen
On 9/12/24 15:10, Mark A. Stevens via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Thu, Aug 15, 2024 at 07:50 AM, Bob Polmanter wrote:
For example, you have port 30880 on the CTCE at 500
and at 600.? They need to be different ports, on both sides of
the CTCE definition.? So, I'd suggest using 30880 for address
500 and something like 30890 for address 600.? This isnt
XNET's rules; rather, this is required by CTCE to function
properly.
Bob,
?
A follow up question concerning use of channels/CTCE for XNET
vs. other applications, say RSCS.
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I remember your documentation saying, I should only use XNET
on a channel once, so 500, but not 501, ... Is it "safe" to use
501 for RSCS, or other products, or does XNET keep the whole
channel too busy, when it is in use?
?
Thanks!
?
?... Mark S.
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Re: dial cpwatch and what it says
I remember that blob! (I think I dated her for a while..)
-Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 9/12/24 17:43, Gregg Levine wrote: Hello!
No those were the two, one of yours, and one a wild cat that followed
those Yeti, who were watching you. The others are watching the Yeti.
Now please stop staring at that blob in the parking lot across the
street, it returned.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@...
"This signature was present when the impossible happened 23 years ago, twice."
On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 5:39?PM Dave McGuire via groups.io
<mcguire@...> wrote:
Yeah it was a long time ago.
And there are a lot more cats here than two!
-Dave
On 9/12/24 17:38, Gregg Levine wrote:
Hello!
Which was stated by the man running his museum with help from far
away, and had the message proofread by two cats, one of them came with
that group in blue hats.
Seriously though, I am quite pleased that the original thread has been
restarted.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@...
"This signature was present when the impossible happened 23 years ago, twice."
On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 5:33?PM Dave McGuire via groups.io
<mcguire@...> wrote:
On 9/12/24 17:19, Mark A. Stevens via groups.io wrote:
Any idea of whether or not it'll run under VM/ESA?
I seriously doubt it, without HEAVY changes, as this is geared for 24
bit, not 31 bit. Ah well, it was a thought.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
I know about WAKEUP (our VM version of cron), but I was wondering if Yossie Silverman's YWAKEUP would be a possible/valid upgrade. Thoughts?
?
?... Mark S.
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Re: dial cpwatch and what it says
Hello! No those were the two, one of yours, and one a wild cat that followed those Yeti, who were watching you. The others are watching the Yeti. Now please stop staring at that blob in the parking lot across the street, it returned. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@... "This signature was present when the impossible happened 23 years ago, twice." On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 5:39?PM Dave McGuire via groups.io <mcguire@...> wrote:
Yeah it was a long time ago.
And there are a lot more cats here than two!
-Dave
On 9/12/24 17:38, Gregg Levine wrote:
Hello!
Which was stated by the man running his museum with help from far
away, and had the message proofread by two cats, one of them came with
that group in blue hats.
Seriously though, I am quite pleased that the original thread has been
restarted.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@...
"This signature was present when the impossible happened 23 years ago, twice."
On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 5:33?PM Dave McGuire via groups.io
<mcguire@...> wrote:
On 9/12/24 17:19, Mark A. Stevens via groups.io wrote:
Any idea of whether or not it'll run under VM/ESA?
I seriously doubt it, without HEAVY changes, as this is geared for 24
bit, not 31 bit. Ah well, it was a thought.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: dial cpwatch and what it says
Yeah it was a long time ago.
And there are a lot more cats here than two!
-Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 9/12/24 17:38, Gregg Levine wrote: Hello!
Which was stated by the man running his museum with help from far
away, and had the message proofread by two cats, one of them came with
that group in blue hats.
Seriously though, I am quite pleased that the original thread has been
restarted.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@...
"This signature was present when the impossible happened 23 years ago, twice."
On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 5:33?PM Dave McGuire via groups.io
<mcguire@...> wrote:
On 9/12/24 17:19, Mark A. Stevens via groups.io wrote:
Any idea of whether or not it'll run under VM/ESA?
I seriously doubt it, without HEAVY changes, as this is geared for 24
bit, not 31 bit. Ah well, it was a thought.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Martin Scheffler
Ken Dreger
Mark A. Stevens
Dave McGuire